every single study of famines has found that there are only a few major contributing
factors and a world wide lack of food isnt one of them.
1. mal distribution of food.
2. somebody holding onto the food to make a killing
3. people cannot afford the food
4. wars and the mass dislocation of farmers and those who work the land
contrary to what most people think, Somalia is a lush and green country. it is the
damned wars that have driven the people to starvation.
The biggest threat to the world food supply is disruption of traditional farming
practices that have developed over the thousands of years of human farming
experience. And the biggest lousy practices a
1. monoculture
2. planting non-native species ill adapted to surviving normal climate variations
3. irrigation leading to salinization
4. cash crops that destroy the soil profile
5. the use of non-organic fertilizers that dont put back nutrients and organic
matter
6. over cultivation of marginal land that leads to erosion of thin soil layers.
all of the above practices are inherent in the development and "pushing" of GMO
crops. Ingrid

(Frankhartx) wrote:
Everyone had better face the fact that unless there is a major cataclysm and a
drastic reduction in the worlds population, the continued growth of population
means that conventional agriculture will not be able to keep up with the
increased demand. Bio-engineered food plants are inevitable, like it or not.
Without the advantages in production gained throug bioengineering we will not
be able to sustain our future population. So wake up to the facrts of life and
smell the roses--they are edible so you can eat them too--some day you may have
to.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

From:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens

every single study of famines has found that there are only a few major
contributing
factors and a world wide lack of food isnt one of them.
1. mal distribution of food.
2. somebody holding onto the food to make a killing
3. people cannot afford the food
4. wars and the mass dislocation of farmers and those who work the land
contrary to what most people think, Somalia is a lush and green country. it
is the
damned wars that have driven the people to starvation.
The biggest threat to the world food supply is disruption of traditional
farming
practices that have developed over the thousands of years of human farming
experience. And the biggest lousy practices a
1. monoculture
2. planting non-native species ill adapted to surviving normal climate
variations
3. irrigation leading to salinization
4. cash crops that destroy the soil profile
5. the use of non-organic fertilizers that dont put back nutrients and
organic
matter
6. over cultivation of marginal land that leads to erosion of thin soil
layers.
all of the above practices are inherent in the development and "pushing" of
GMO
crops. Ingrid

(Frankhartx) wrote:
Everyone had better face the fact that unless there is a major cataclysm and
a
drastic reduction in the worlds population, the continued growth of
population
means that conventional agriculture will not be able to keep up with the
increased demand. Bio-engineered food plants are inevitable, like it or not.

Without the advantages in production gained throug bioengineering we will
not
be able to sustain our future population. So wake up to the facrts of life
and
smell the roses--they are edible so you can eat them too--some day you may
have
to.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

current food supply is adequate for the current world population and can
sustain some increase. But if population continues to increase as it is doing
then even with the best of practices it will not be sufficient without the
ability to increase production supplied by the bioengineeered crops. Todays
famines are not related to the world food supply but are localized phenomia
with various causes. The government of Zimbabwe in what only can be described
as utter madness has largely deliberately destroyed what was once a highly
effecient agricultural base with the result that we can expect the people there
to suffer greatly--but here in the US we waste more than enough food to fill
the gap But todays famines are tactical situations, in the overall strategical
picture future populaion growth will stress the present system beyond it's
limits and bioengimeered crops will be a necessity.

(Frankhartx) expounded:

Without the advantages in production gained throug bioengineering we will not
be able to sustain our future population.

Have stock in Monsanto? Sounds like it. We can to feed our people
without GM foods. The GM people want us to believe we can't.


--
Ann, Gardening in zone 6a
Just south of Boston, MA
********************************

"........ Somalia is a lush and green country. it is the
damned wars that have driven the people to starvation........."

Sorry.....do you live in a different world to the rest of us?
SEE

http://wwww.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/...004dc303?OpenD
ocument

Strange how the US is slowly waking up to the threat of GM crops, yet the US
Government is still trying to impose trade embargos on countries that wont
take their GM food crops.
--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

"David Hill" wrote in
:


Strange how the US is slowly waking up to the threat of GM crops, yet
the US Government is still trying to impose trade embargos on
countries that wont take their GM food crops.

A lot of strange things are happening since the Bush's took office again.
I think we haven't heard the last of it. It is one big fake.

Ursa..

--
==================================
Ursa (Major)/ \ *-*-* *
___________/====================================\_______*-*______

Without the advantages in production gained throug bioengineering we will not
be able to sustain our future population.

Have stock in Monsanto? Sounds like it. We can to feed our people
without GM foods. The GM people want us to believe we can't.

We can now--we won't in the future at present population growth rates. Not
every bioengineered development to date has been for the best but in that
science lies the hope of the future.
--

On 13 Aug 2003 23:24:39 GMT, (Marley1372) wrote:

there is a huuuuge difference between GMO(genetically modifyed organism) corn
and "organic corn". They are not the same thing.

Toad

Ya, I think many of us know that. I was saying the person who originally
posted this topic may have misread. It is the GMO corn which has Bt-k built in,
is killing butterflies. This is not new information.

On 14 Aug 2003 01:02:17 GMT, (Frankhartx) wrote:


Everyone had better face the fact that unless there is a major cataclysm and a
drastic reduction in the worlds population, the continued growth of population
means that conventional agriculture will not be able to keep up with the
increased demand. Bio-engineered food plants are inevitable, like it or not.
Without the advantages in production gained throug bioengineering we will not
be able to sustain our future population. So wake up to the facrts of life and
smell the roses--they are edible so you can eat them too--some day you may have
to.

So instead of this, why doesn't the world food bank, the US, promote the end of
making ten children families? I think it's a shame you think GM food is being
produced because our government "cares" about us having food down the line.
It's not. The lie is, "we love our people..." Bullshit. What they should say,
we love our pest free corn. Cheaper to make, gives better profit, and who cares
if it kills the silly monarch butterfly populations.

So, maybe you need to smell the roses and stop the complacency with regard to
this disgusting thing called genetically modified food.

Oh brother, now I've heard it all.


On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 21:02:33 -0400, "E. Norma Stitz" ""42DD\"@your service.net
wrote:

It doesn't take rocket science to determine where GM corn is grown, and
to determine the approximate time that it pollinates. It's not real
hard to find out where Monarch butterflies are at that time, either, and
to realize that they aren't anywhere near the corn.

animaux wrote:
Another rocket scientist.


On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 17:40:04 -0400, "E. Norma Stitz" ""42DD\"@your service.net
wrote:


It's all bullshit. Monarch butterflies are nowhere near corn when it
pollinates.

LeeAnne wrote:

Wow, and pretty disturbed by it and the whole GM (genetically modified)
movement. Turns out that, according to one site, the GM corn contains a
certain gene that protects it from some type of pest. Well... evidently the
GM corn's pollen contains something due to this gene that then gets blown
all over the milkweed that the butterflies frequent and, get this, it alters
the gut of the butterfly turning into more of a sieve than protecting it and
thus allowing pathogens to be released into the butterfly's body.

You can read more he
http://barque.freeyellow.com/monarch.html

What disturbs me the most is the fact that we are all probably eating GM
products and have no clue that we are since they mix it in w/regular food
and the regular food folks aren't allowed to call their food 'regular' food
or non-GM. Yikes!!!

LeeAnne
-who doesn't usually answer her own questions-
-yes you do-
-no I don't-
-stop it-
-stop what?-
lol

"LeeAnne" wrote in message
...


I saw a bumper sticker on a car yesterday that said something like

"Organic


Corn Kills Monarch Butterflies, What Next?!?!"

Anybody have any input on this? Anybody heard of this? I'm off to google

it


....

~LeeAnne

--
------
If you're an insomniac, agnostic, dyslexic do you lay
awake at night wondering if there is a dog?
-----

Strange how the US is slowly waking up to the threat of GM crops, yet the US
Government is still trying to impose trade embargos on countries that wont
take their GM food crops.

Bioengineering is here to stay--not only in food crops but animals as well. It
can be dangerous and is far from sufficiently understood and can be a dangerous
thing--but like fire despite the danger we will not be able to live without it.
You can either ride the wave or go uinder-perhaps somr day a new liver can be
grown with your DNA signature that can replace your damaged one with no
rejection hassle--conjenital genetic effects can be remedied. All through
bioengineering. Don't decieve yourself, these crude first attempts are only
thr beginning not the end.

other than introducing the genes for forming the nodules for nitrogen fixing bacteria
into many food crops, I dont see any of the current bioengineering contributing
anything to sustainable agriculture. Most of which is sticking in disease
resistance. and susceptibility is due to bad agriculture practices in the first
place, like monoculture and not rotating crops.
It took the dust bowl to make American farmers wake up to their horrific assault on
our soil. They started crop rotation and contour plowing. well.. I dont know if you
have noticed or not, but I see a lot of these idiot farmers going right back to
straight up and down plowing and constant tilling of the soil causing the US to lose
horrendous amounts of top soil. It takes 100 years to make 1 inch of topsoil. we are
losing much more than that... especially in the corn belt where thick sod used to
hold the soil against the constant drying winds.
the great leap in food production will be to stop the insane practices and go back to
and develop/augment sustainable agriculture aided by high technology in the form of
satellites etc. for example, solar ovens etc and hydrogen cell technology would do a
great deal to stop deforestation and subsequent loss of soils in parts of Africa and
S. America.
the lunacy is all over the world. Africans "count" their wealth in how many cattle
they have. which is ridiculous. technology in the form of wind pumps for water gave
them enough water, but then food to feed all that "consumptive wealth" became the
limiting factor. It is better to count "wealth" in terms of sea shells .. at least
they dont use up precious resources. Agribusiness is biggest violator of sustainable
agriculture, but so are many family farmers. It was family farmers that left their
unproductive soil and the Amish that moved in and brought the land back into
productivity by sane and sustainable farming practices.
Do a search and find out about agriculture in north Africa at the time of the Moors.
the loss of arable soil to the sands of the Sahara started with the Spanish
destruction of the Moorish Empire.


(Frankhartx) wrote:
.. But if population continues to increase as it is doing
then even with the best of practices it will not be sufficient without the
ability to increase production supplied by the bioengineeered crops.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

http://countrystudies.us/somalia/34.htm
"Somalis recognize four seasons, two rainy (gu and day) and two dry (jiilaal and
hagaa). The gu rains begin in April and last until June, producing a fresh supply of
pasture and for a brief period turning the desert into a flowering garden. Lush
vegetation covers most of the land, especially the central grazing plateau where
grass grows tall. Milk and meat abound, water is plentiful, and animals do not
require much care."
http://somalinet.com/library/somalia/?so=0046

it is not all desert. even the US has a desert (desert are extremely fertile just
need water, BTW) and the plains which need irrigation to grow crops. Compare what
the Israeli Kibbutzim have done with the land putting it into production vs nomadic
overgrazing. http://www.birdingisrael.com/KibbutzLotan/ as an example of a desert
turned into productive and sustainable agriculture.
Ingrid

"David Hill" wrote:

"........ Somalia is a lush and green country. it is the
damned wars that have driven the people to starvation........."

Sorry.....do you live in a different world to the rest of us?
SEE

http://wwww.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/...004dc303?OpenD
ocument

Strange how the US is slowly waking up to the threat of GM crops, yet the US
Government is still trying to impose trade embargos on countries that wont
take their GM food crops.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

I voted for Clinton, but it was Clintons idea of American cashing in on the
biotechnological boom that got the whole thing in gear. NAFTA and GAT were his
babies. Ingrid

Major Ursa wrote:
A lot of strange things are happening since the Bush's took office again.
I think we haven't heard the last of it. It is one big fake.
Ursa..




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

absolutely. lotsa lotsa money sloshing into politicians war chests and advertising
to convince us how wonderful it is. The central question in this land of freedom,
is why isnt the GM foods labeled so we can choose whether we want to eat it or not?
Ingrid

Ann wrote:
We can to feed our people
without GM foods. The GM people want us to believe we can't.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

wrote in
:

I voted for Clinton, but it was Clintons idea of American cashing in
on the biotechnological boom that got the whole thing in gear. NAFTA
and GAT were his babies. Ingrid

Good point. Still, I'd rather have him there to keep control of the
developments than this guy. Let's hope next time most of your fellow-
citizens agree to let the other side at it again.

Ursa..



--
==================================
Ursa (Major)/ \ *-*-* *
___________/====================================\_______*-*______