On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 22:31:17 GMT, Salty Thumb
wrote:

I don't trust ex-CIA guys or their butt-buddies, but he seemed to be pretty
well liked when he hosted SNL (don't know if that was pre- or post- 9-11).
Of course it could have also been the free tickets and giant "CLAP" signs.

-- Salty

Believe me, in New York, if people don't like you, you are never re-elected for
a second term and they would torture you till you stepped down. He was on SNL a
few times, before and after 9-11. After 9-11 he was on with the soldiers of New
York: NYPD and NYFD. There was a show dedicated to the families and for the
people who perished. New York is a democratic, liberal town. For Guilliani to
be elected in the first place he had to be liked.

New York is not like other kiss ass cities of smaller means. It is a
brilliantly wealthy city with programs for anyone and everyone who needs them.
He cleaned Times Square up so well I didn't recognize it. He gave Broadway back
to Broadway. He moved the sleaze and drug dealers out and off 42ond street.
The hookers are still around, but they moved down to 14 street and I believe
11th Ave.

People didn't just like him, they loved him. Before elected, after elected,
after second term elected and till today. I wish he'd run for president.

I think I read somewhere that the new 'breeds' of GMO corn are now being
created to be sterile? That they grow when the farmer plants them and thats
it, no more new plants from the left-over or dropped seeds.
Any truth to this?

Thx
BLueCoBra
wrote in message
...
actually. my students prepared and debated the whole GMO question this
summer after
seeing a PBS frontline "Harvest of Fear". here is syllabus with links to
PBS site
for this frontline, and further down is discussion of the green revolution
and
problems with growing food by the principles of the green revolution.
http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/w.../syllabus.html
GMO or genetically modified foods have been banned until recently in most
of the
world except the US (Monsanto's home court). Now GMO food are allowed in
some EU
countries as long as they are labeled as GMO foods.
Monsanto et all took the gene out of Bt that kills caterpillars and put
that gene
into corn seed. Every cell in the corn now produces the lethal protein so
anything
chewing on any part of the corn will die. Those cells includes pollen
from corn.
Monarchs primarily eat milkweed and most milkweed grows between and around
corn
fields. a researcher showed in the lab that milkweed sprinkled with the
pollen of Bt
corn would runt and/or kill monarch caterpillars. regular Bt is
indiscriminate in
killing all caterpillars. Corn pollen is carried by wind, altho not very
far.
a few things are terribly wrong with inserting Bt into corn besides losing
a
significant number of Monarchs.
1. First, the protein is a likely allergen and for that reason has been
licensed for
use in animals only. "StarLink corn contains a protein called Cry9C that
scientists
say could cause allergies to some people. For this reason, it is only
licensed for
use as animal food.... Nearly 300 kinds of taco shells, tortillas, chips
and tostadas
were recalled from U.S. grocery stores and restaurants, including Kraft
taco shells
(sold under the Taco Bell brand name), Safeway store brand products, and
foods from
Wendy's and Applebee's restaurants. In the U.S., no one knows for sure how
much
StarLink is in the food supply, though in Iowa alone, experts say that up
to half of
the state's 2 billion bushels of corn may be contaminated. "
It is a basic problem people with allergies have. They need to know what
is in their
food, especially "whole" foods if they are to keep themselves healthy.
2. Bt is an organic control for pests. Organic farmers and those who
practice
integrated pest management apply Bt when needed and then the bacteria
washes off the
food and for other reasons this kind of usage makes it unlikely resistance
will
evolve. By integrating the protein into the plant insects will quickly
develop
resistance, thereby depriving current and future generations of organic
and IPM
farmers of a useful and earth friendly pest control. In essence, they
have taken one
of the best insecticides and are cashing in on it now leaving everyone
else without
that "magic bullet" forever. It is like somebody taking an effective
antibiotic
against a deadly disease and feeding their cattle with it even tho the
cattle dont
have an infection, but by virtue of the circulating levels antibiotic
resistant
bacteria will develop and then when people really need that antibiotic it
is useless.

3. Corn pollen is mobile. Bt pollen contaminates surrounding fields so
those
farmers corn is not Bt free. The contaminated farmers cannot collect
damages.
4. Genes "jump". There are things called transposons which move genes
from plants
to plants.
http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ult...ansposons.html
Normally they stay within a species, but having moved the gene from
bacteria to corn
it has been forced to jump the species barrier. This makes it more likely
the Bt
protein is going to jump from corn to other plants.
As a scientist, as a minor in molecular genetics I think there are
terrific uses for
recombinant DNA technology. Screwing around with our food isnt one of
them. Ingrid


"E. Norma Stitz" ""42DD\"@your service.net wrote:
It's all bullshit. Monarch butterflies are nowhere near corn when it
pollinates.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

I am just starting to read "gangs of New York"... wish I had some idea of what
streets are which cause the first couple of chapters detail where everything is (hope
the rest isnt like this) it is so much like the bible, x begat y, begat z...etc.
never got past the first chapter on that one either. Ingrid

animaux wrote:
He cleaned Times Square up so well I didn't recognize it. He gave Broadway back
to Broadway. He moved the sleaze and drug dealers out and off 42ond street.
The hookers are still around, but they moved down to 14 street and I believe
11th Ave.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

I dont know. it cant be to create sterile pollen (I would imagine that would stop
the pollen from being a problem) fertilized seed that is = corn. unfertilized seed
will not "plump" and grow into a kernel. or maybe they can get around that ... maybe
sterile pollen produces the tubes and simulates fertilization. however, sterile
would certainly be a goal since it would force farmers to buy their GMO seeds from
the company every year. Right now all that GMO pollen can fertilize non-GMO corn and
the seed if saved and used the next year would produce GMO corn.. and not a penny to
Monsanto. Ingrid

"BLueCoBra" wrote:
I think I read somewhere that the new 'breeds' of GMO corn are now being
created to be sterile? That they grow when the farmer plants them and thats
it, no more new plants from the left-over or dropped seeds.
Any truth to this?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 14:54:30 GMT, wrote:

I am just starting to read "gangs of New York"... wish I had some idea of what
streets are which cause the first couple of chapters detail where everything is (hope
the rest isnt like this) it is so much like the bible, x begat y, begat z...etc.
never got past the first chapter on that one either. Ingrid

One of the beauties of Manhattan is that most of its streets and
avenues make perfect sense. Avenues all go one way [across the
narrow width of the island] and streets all go the long way. If you
have any interest in NY & its history, just study a map for a bit &
you'll get a feel for how it is laid out quite easily.

Here's a map that shows the neighborhoods with just enough of the
streets and ave's to pinpoint them-
http://www.sumitomo-ny.com/relocatio...attan_map.html

I'm an upstate NYer who hadn't ventured to the city in 25 yrs until
last fall. All I can say is - 'Visit the city now & you'll never
think of it in the same light.' It is actually cleaner than
Montreal these days.. . . . and there just ain't no people on earth
like NYers.

Jim

OB- rec.gardens;
http://users.rcn.com/ggsnyc/Pages/Fa...20Figures.html
has a plethora of trivia about the hundreds of community gardens in NY
City.
http://www.interactivist.net/gardens/h_1.html has a bit on the history
of city gardens.

What are some of the streets? I can help. I didn't see the movie. Way too
violent for me. Is it about Manhattan or Brooklyn?

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 14:54:30 GMT, wrote:

I am just starting to read "gangs of New York"... wish I had some idea of what
streets are which cause the first couple of chapters detail where everything is (hope
the rest isnt like this) it is so much like the bible, x begat y, begat z...etc.
never got past the first chapter on that one either. Ingrid

animaux wrote:
He cleaned Times Square up so well I didn't recognize it. He gave Broadway back
to Broadway. He moved the sleaze and drug dealers out and off 42ond street.
The hookers are still around, but they moved down to 14 street and I believe
11th Ave.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 11:23:18 GMT, Jim Elbrecht wrote:

One of the beauties of Manhattan is that most of its streets and
avenues make perfect sense. Avenues all go one way [across the
narrow width of the island] and streets all go the long way. If you
have any interest in NY & its history, just study a map for a bit &
you'll get a feel for how it is laid out quite easily.

Here's a map that shows the neighborhoods with just enough of the
streets and ave's to pinpoint them-
http://www.sumitomo-ny.com/relocatio...attan_map.html

I'm an upstate NYer who hadn't ventured to the city in 25 yrs until
last fall. All I can say is - 'Visit the city now & you'll never
think of it in the same light.' It is actually cleaner than
Montreal these days.. . . . and there just ain't no people on earth
like NYers.

Jim

Thanks, Jim. I fully agree. NYers have this reputation of being unfriendly.
It couldn't be further than the truth. Aggressive, absolutely. Unfriendly, not
hardly.

They city looks beautiful. Again, thanks to Mayor Rudy Guilliani.

nice, lmao!!

"Salty Thumb" wrote in message
...
"LeeAnne" wrote in
:

Now that I think of it - shouldn't the bumper sticker have said "GM Corn
Kills....yadda yadda yadda"?

LeeAnne

General Motors kills small green funny talking Jedi's on their farms?

wrote in message
...

Right now all that GMO pollen can fertilize non-GMO corn and
the seed if saved and used the next year would produce GMO corn.. and not
a penny to
Monsanto.

I have read that monsanto has the possibility of sueing anyone growing their
patented corn without paying monsanto royalties. Could they end up
collecting for most of the corn grown over time?

Bob

"Bob" wrote in
t:


wrote in message
...

Right now all that GMO pollen can fertilize non-GMO corn and
the seed if saved and used the next year would produce GMO corn.. and
not a penny to Monsanto.

I have read that monsanto has the possibility of sueing anyone growing
their patented corn without paying monsanto royalties. Could they end
up collecting for most of the corn grown over time?

Bob


Someone should put up a butterfly garden in the middle of corn country,
and then sue the hell out of Monsanto if/when all the caterpillars die.
Wind may be an "Act of God", but genetically modified pollen is not.

-- Salty

In article ,
says...
Someone should put up a butterfly garden in the middle of corn country,
and then sue the hell out of Monsanto if/when all the caterpillars die.
Wind may be an "Act of God", but genetically modified pollen is not.


You would have to plant it closer than 200 feet to the
corn probably putting you on private property to begin
with.
--

http://home.comcast.net/~larflu/owl1.jpg

Lar. (to e-mail, get rid of the BUGS!!

"Frankhartx" wrote in message
news:20030814092034.24718.00001555@mb- Bioengineering is here to stay--not
only in food crops but animals as well. It
can be dangerous and is far from sufficiently understood and can be a
dangerous
thing--but like fire despite the danger we will not be able to live
without it.
You can either ride the wave or go uinder-perhaps somr day a new liver can
be
grown with your DNA signature that can replace your damaged one with no
rejection hassle--conjenital genetic effects can be remedied. All through
bioengineering. Don't decieve yourself, these crude first attempts are
only
thr beginning not the end.

But then again, I think I deserve the choice of whether I buy and eat
bio-engineered foods. Appropriate labeling should be required. As it is
currently in the US, you have no way of knowing. With appropriate labeling,
the marketplace could help make the decision as to whether these foods are
appropriate.

Bob

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 17:02:14 GMT, "Bob"
wrote:

But then again, I think I deserve the choice of whether I buy and eat
bio-engineered foods. Appropriate labeling should be required. As it is
currently in the US, you have no way of knowing. With appropriate labeling,
the marketplace could help make the decision as to whether these foods are
appropriate.

This seems reasonable. Although it *might* get tricky along the line
of "this is the dog that ate the cat that ate the rat that ate the
corn..."