If you live near it, read this -

http://www.onegulf.org/repair.html

J. Kolenovsky
http://www.celestialhabitats.com
-- =

J. Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

Why didn't you just say that if you live near any stream or body of water,
read the link, and substitute "Gulf of Mexico" with the name you live near?

Tom J

"J Kolenovsky" wrote in message
...
If you live near it, read this -

http://www.onegulf.org/repair.html

J. Kolenovsky
http://www.celestialhabitats.com
--
J. Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP
ô¿ô - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
ô¿ô - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

Its ironic that the ones hollering about the Gulf getting messed up
are the same ones with beachfront condo's with 90000000 sq yards of
asphalt parking lots surounding the places, and also those beach front
hotels that have asphalt and concrete all over the place because the
average tourist don't like walking in the sand and getting sand spurs
between their toes. The same ones that have all those jet skis and
other power boats for rental making a oil slick on the surface
wherever their at, the same ones that pay off congress and other
politicians to turn a blind eye while they drain wetlands and marshy
areas in the gulf region so they can add an addition to their 3,000
room hotel unit. Anymore if you visit the gulf if you don;t stay in a
hotel on the beach you can not even get anywhere near the beach as its
all private property, except for a very fewe so called public areas,
that are so overused and trashed its like being in a landfill. No, if
they want to save the Gulf they need to back these foolks up and clear
the beaches of the buildings and rip up all those parking lots and
condos, and put it back the way it was 20 years ago. The beach can dry
up or blow away for all I care, as I do not own beachfront property
and I refuse to get bunched up like a feedlot full of cows just to dip
my toes in the water, and I'll certainly not spend $165.00 a ight to
sleep in a hotel just to be confined to the htels section of beach
either, so what happens to the gulf has little impact on me. Thats
the way it is in the Florida and Alabama and Mississippi panhandle
region........

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:03:34 -0500, J Kolenovsky
wrote:

x-If you live near it, read this -
x-
x-http://www.onegulf.org/repair.html
x-
x-J. Kolenovsky
x-http://www.celestialhabitats.com

--
Visit my website:
http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Contents: foundry and general metal working and lots of related projects.
Regards
Roy aka Chipmaker // Foxeye
Opinions are strictly those of my wife....I have had no input whatsoever.
Remove capital A from chipmAkr for correct email address

[[[[[[[[[[[[{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Standing Ovation}}}}}}}}}}}}}}]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]


On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:06:33 GMT, Roy opined:

Its ironic that the ones hollering about the Gulf getting messed up
are the same ones with beachfront condo's with 90000000 sq yards of
asphalt parking lots surounding the places, and also those beach front
hotels that have asphalt and concrete all over the place because the
average tourist don't like walking in the sand and getting sand spurs
between their toes. The same ones that have all those jet skis and
other power boats for rental making a oil slick on the surface
wherever their at, the same ones that pay off congress and other
politicians to turn a blind eye while they drain wetlands and marshy
areas in the gulf region so they can add an addition to their 3,000
room hotel unit. Anymore if you visit the gulf if you don;t stay in a
hotel on the beach you can not even get anywhere near the beach as its
all private property, except for a very fewe so called public areas,
that are so overused and trashed its like being in a landfill. No, if
they want to save the Gulf they need to back these foolks up and clear
the beaches of the buildings and rip up all those parking lots and
condos, and put it back the way it was 20 years ago. The beach can dry
up or blow away for all I care, as I do not own beachfront property
and I refuse to get bunched up like a feedlot full of cows just to dip
my toes in the water, and I'll certainly not spend $165.00 a ight to
sleep in a hotel just to be confined to the htels section of beach
either, so what happens to the gulf has little impact on me. Thats
the way it is in the Florida and Alabama and Mississippi panhandle
region........

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:03:34 -0500, J Kolenovsky
wrote:

x-If you live near it, read this -
x-
x-http://www.onegulf.org/repair.html
x-
x-J. Kolenovsky
x-http://www.celestialhabitats.com

I live in Houston, on the side nearest Galveston, close to Friendswood.
What about Brio? If you live in the area you know about Brio (which is close
to me) which is in the top 10 of the worst sites in the US and is so bad it
has had to be cemented over because it cannot be cleaned. I think I would
be more concerned wioth the refineries and chemical plants re Texas City,
Houston Ship Channel, Lamarque (did I spell that right?), Deer Park, Galena
Park, Pasadena, ect. than people who want to live on the beach. And while I
don't agree with cementing over the waterfront I also know that if it were
not for the seawall Galveston Island would probably not have much left of it
fter all the storms that have hit.

Shell


"J Kolenovsky" wrote in message
...
If you live near it, read this -

http://www.onegulf.org/repair.html

J. Kolenovsky
http://www.celestialhabitats.com
--
J. Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP
ô¿ô - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
ô¿ô - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:40:54 GMT, "Tom J" wrote:


"J Kolenovsky" wrote

If you live near it, read this -

http://www.onegulf.org/repair.html


Why didn't you just say that if you live near any stream or body of water,
read the link, and substitute "Gulf of Mexico" with the name you live near?

Perhaps he lives in the area and wanted to post the information with a
relevent subject line. It is certainly applicable to more than Gulf
residents. I live 3 blocks from Chesapeake Bay and am officially taxed
$40/yr (last time I looked) for "runoff" into the Bay, in spite of the
fact that I don't water, fertilize, or use insecticides on my lawn,
and don't wash the car at home (and rarely elsewhere) or flush
chemicals into the street or sewer system. It *does* make me peevish
when I see the chem trucks roll up across the street to do the damage
I'm paying for.

Many great comments, Yes, I know about Brio. The book is put out by the
Texas A & M University Sea Grant College Program and the Watersmart
principles contained within can be applied to anyone, anywhere,
anytime. =


J. Kolenovsky =

http://www.celestialhabitats.com
-- =

J. Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

Thanks, Frogleg. I see you visited my website and studied the data
contained on it before you made any comments. And your response is what
the book, "Gulf of Mexico Reapir Kit" is all about about. It applies to
the Great Lakes, Chesapeake Bay (your have an estuary near you like me)
or anywhere, anyone or anyplace at any time.

J. Kolenovsky
http://www.celestialhabitats.com



Frogleg wrote:
=

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:40:54 GMT, "Tom J" wrote:
=


"J Kolenovsky" wrote
=

If you live near it, read this -

http://www.onegulf.org/repair.html
=

Why didn't you just say that if you live near any stream or body of wa=
ter,
read the link, and substitute "Gulf of Mexico" with the name you live =
near?
=

Perhaps he lives in the area and wanted to post the information with a
relevent subject line. It is certainly applicable to more than Gulf
residents. I live 3 blocks from Chesapeake Bay and am officially taxed
$40/yr (last time I looked) for "runoff" into the Bay, in spite of the
fact that I don't water, fertilize, or use insecticides on my lawn,
and don't wash the car at home (and rarely elsewhere) or flush
chemicals into the street or sewer system. It *does* make me peevish
when I see the chem trucks roll up across the street to do the damage
I'm paying for.

-- =

J. Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

The book is put out by the Texas A & M University Sea Grant College
Program and the Watersmart
principles contained within can be applied to anyone, anywhere, anytime.
Great Lakes, Cheasapeake or any watershed that empties in to a larger
body of water which ultimately ends up in basins (seas, oceans).

One of the supporters of the program is John S. Jacobs:

http://www.urban-nature.org/publications/allison.htm
http://www.urban-nature.org/publications/sprawl.htm
http://www.urban-nature.org/publicat...xasSprawl.pdf=


Having been on several Master Naturalist field trips with John as leader
revealed this to me.

J. Kolenovsky
http://www.celestialhabitats.com (186 links to the environment)
-- =

J. Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

Thanks, V.

animaux wrote:
=

[[[[[[[[[[[[{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Standing Ovation}}}}}}}}}}}}}}]]]]]]]]]]]]]=
]]]]]
=

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:06:33 GMT, Roy opined:
=

Its ironic that the ones hollering about the Gulf getting messed up
are the same ones with beachfront condo's with 90000000 sq yards of
asphalt parking lots surounding the places, and also those beach front=

hotels that have asphalt and concrete all over the place because the
average tourist don't like walking in the sand and getting sand spurs
between their toes. The same ones that have all those jet skis and
other power boats for rental making a oil slick on the surface
wherever their at, the same ones that pay off congress and other
politicians to turn a blind eye while they drain wetlands and marshy
areas in the gulf region so they can add an addition to their 3,000
room hotel unit. Anymore if you visit the gulf if you don;t stay in a
hotel on the beach you can not even get anywhere near the beach as its=

all private property, except for a very fewe so called public areas,
that are so overused and trashed its like being in a landfill. No, if
they want to save the Gulf they need to back these foolks up and clear=

the beaches of the buildings and rip up all those parking lots and
condos, and put it back the way it was 20 years ago. The beach can dry=

up or blow away for all I care, as I do not own beachfront property
and I refuse to get bunched up like a feedlot full of cows just to dip=

my toes in the water, and I'll certainly not spend $165.00 a ight to
sleep in a hotel just to be confined to the htels section of beach
either, so what happens to the gulf has little impact on me. Thats
the way it is in the Florida and Alabama and Mississippi panhandle
region........

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:03:34 -0500, J Kolenovsky
wrote:

x-If you live near it, read this -
x-
x-http://www.onegulf.org/repair.html
x-
x-J. Kolenovsky
x-http://www.celestialhabitats.com

-- =

J. Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

Roy, we need more people like you who actually care about wetlands being
drained. =

http://www.urban-nature.org/publications/sprawl.htm. Wetlands are
nature's kidneys and home to the seafood industry at large. That is a
fairly large economic impact for Ala, Ms and FLA.

You mentioned asphalt. The asphalt that is upland from a large
watershed, beit, Gulf of Mexico. Mississippi River, Atlantic, Pacific,
Great Lakes, is a way for motor oil to be washed in to it when rainsfall
occurs on that asphalt. Or the guy who dumped his anti-freeze, motor
oil, cement or whatever else in to the sewer system.
Look at http://www.watersmart.cc/. See the storm sewer? Do you
over-fertlize? Use pesticides or herbicides? This is waht the book is
about - whether the title is St. Andrews Bay (you know where that is),
Great Lakes, Atlantic, Pacific, Chesapeake or anywhere else.

I never was a power boater - 18' sloop. 22' yawl and 26' sloop and
sailed upsteam Galveston Bay only.

Personally, I never was crazy about the beach. But what washes up on it
is what is dumped into the watersheds hundres of miles upstream (and
with help from jet skis, boats etc) =


I spent a week in the panhandle of Florida and it is a nice eco-region. =


I'll work on my end over here and maybe you and others can work on your
end over there.

J. Kolenovsky
http://www.celestialhabitats.com
(an environmental resource with over 186 links)


Roy wrote:
=

Its ironic that the ones hollering about the Gulf getting messed up
are the same ones with beachfront condo's with 90000000 sq yards of
asphalt parking lots surounding the places, and also those beach front
hotels that have asphalt and concrete all over the place because the
average tourist don't like walking in the sand and getting sand spurs
between their toes. The same ones that have all those jet skis and
other power boats for rental making a oil slick on the surface
wherever their at, the same ones that pay off congress and other
politicians to turn a blind eye while they drain wetlands and marshy
areas in the gulf region so they can add an addition to their 3,000
room hotel unit. Anymore if you visit the gulf if you don;t stay in a
hotel on the beach you can not even get anywhere near the beach as its
all private property, except for a very fewe so called public areas,
that are so overused and trashed its like being in a landfill. No, if
they want to save the Gulf they need to back these foolks up and clear
the beaches of the buildings and rip up all those parking lots and
condos, and put it back the way it was 20 years ago. The beach can dry
up or blow away for all I care, as I do not own beachfront property
and I refuse to get bunched up like a feedlot full of cows just to dip
my toes in the water, and I'll certainly not spend $165.00 a ight to
sleep in a hotel just to be confined to the htels section of beach
either, so what happens to the gulf has little impact on me. Thats
the way it is in the Florida and Alabama and Mississippi panhandle regi=
on........


-- =

J. Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:56:25 -0500, J Kolenovsky
wrote:

Wetlands are
nature's kidneys and home to the seafood industry at large. That is a
fairly large economic impact for Ala, Ms and FLA.

You mentioned asphalt.

snip

Not just in terms of toxic runoff (although it's going to be hard to
tell people to give up cars and driving!), but in paving over the
'sponge' wetlands and even dampish spaces provide. A local Bayfront
surburb here is laced with streams and marshes, and was rather prone
to flooding when mostly a semi-rural fishing and agricultural area. In
the past 25 years, it's become "developed" with housing, commercial
strips, and widened roads. That is, a substantial area of 'sponge' has
been paved over. And now there's a *terrific* flooding problem there,
and all kinds of plans to drain, re-tool, control, manage, etc. My
dentist is there, and the office called a year or 2 ago to cancel an
app't because the main road was under water after a nor'easter.

If I had it to do over again, I'd like to study hydrology. Both
interesting statistical analysis and groovy field trips. :-) And I'd
like to know why builders clear trees from a fairly damp area next to
a reservoir/lake, leaving ground on which, before construction, water
pools and stands for days, and then build a score of houses. And what
are city/municipal planners *thinking* when giving them permits?

"Frogleg" wrote in message trips. :-) And I'd
like to know why builders clear trees from a fairly damp area next to
a reservoir/lake, leaving ground on which, before construction, water
pools and stands for days, and then build a score of houses. And what
are city/municipal planners *thinking* when giving them permits?

My favorite story along this line happened about 5 years ago, during an "el
nino" winter/spring here in the Northwest. The local real estate pull out
section had a headline article decrying the growth management act, and in
particular, the setbacks required for property along rivers, stream, and
lakes (I think it was 200 feet), saying that 50 feet was perfectly adequate,
etc etc. Sadly for the author (and I did point this out in a letter to the
editor), the front page color picture of the newspaper that day was a
dramatic photo of a 2000 square foot house floating down a normally placid
stream swollen by snow melt and rain. Realtors and developers will tell you
"people want to live close to the water, and they should be allowed to get
as close as they want", and I say, go ahead and let them if they want - but
make sure that NO city services extend to that point, and that NO insurance
company is allowed to insure them to live there, and NO money from FEMA is
allowed to help them once the house is flooded. Of course, given the current
direction of our government's administration, there won't even be a FEMA
once all these deficits hit the fan.......

Frogleg wrote:
=

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:56:25 -0500, J Kolenovsky
wrote:
=

Wetlands are
nature's kidneys and home to the seafood industry at large. That is a
fairly large economic impact for Ala, Ms and FLA.

You mentioned asphalt.
=

snip
=

Not just in terms of toxic runoff (although it's going to be hard to
tell people to give up cars and driving!),
true (bring on the hybrids or any other reasonable solution)
but in paving over the
'sponge' wetlands and even dampish spaces provide.
These people have no clue what prairies and wetlands do for our
environment.
A local Bayfront
surburb here is laced with streams and marshes, and was rather prone
to flooding when mostly a semi-rural fishing and agricultural area. In
the past 25 years, it's become "developed" with housing, commercial
strips, and widened roads. That is, a substantial area of 'sponge' has
been paved over. And now there's a *terrific* flooding problem there,
of course, there is. An oragnic soil can absorb so much water , it's
unbelievable.
and all kinds of plans to drain, re-tool, control, manage, etc. My
dentist is there, and the office called a year or 2 ago to cancel an
app't because the main road was under water after a nor'easter.
=

If I had it to do over again, I'd like to study hydrology.
I would have studied envoronmental science and hopefully, a course in
hydrology.
Both
interesting statistical analysis and groovy field trips. :-) And I'd
like to know why builders clear trees from a fairly damp area next to
a reservoir/lake, leaving ground on which, before construction, water
pools and stands for days, and then build a score of houses. And what
are city/municipal planners *thinking* when giving them permits?
They're not. As for developers, money. At the expense of the land we're
borrowing from our children. Whatever happened to "true" compromise?

-- =

J. Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

Yes, yes, yes and yes.... (and I live near a bay in Long Island Sound)
"gregpresley" wrote in message
...

Realtors and developers will tell you
"people want to live close to the water, and they should be allowed to get
as close as they want", and I say, go ahead and let them if they want -
but
make sure that
1. NO city services extend to that point, and that
2. NO insurance company is allowed to insure them to live there, and
3. NO money from FEMA is allowed to help them once the house is flooded.
4. Of course, given the current direction of our government's
administration,
there won't even be a FEMA once all these deficits hit the fan.......