I have a large established bed of purple cone flowers. I recently
purchased some red and some white cone flowers also. I was told that
these colors come from hybrid plants, so my question is: Will they
cross polinate or will they retain their true colors? Anyone have any
experience with this?

Enuf

(Enuf) expounded:

I have a large established bed of purple cone flowers. I recently
purchased some red and some white cone flowers also. I was told that
these colors come from hybrid plants, so my question is: Will they
cross polinate or will they retain their true colors? Anyone have any
experience with this?

They'll cross, and the results won't be as vigorous, but you could get
some interesting combos! But I'll bet the purples will win out in the
end.

--
Ann, Gardening in zone 6a
Just south of Boston, MA
********************************

Enuf wrote:

I have a large established bed of purple cone flowers. I recently
purchased some red and some white cone flowers also. I was told that
these colors come from hybrid plants, so my question is: Will they
cross polinate or will they retain their true colors? Anyone have any
experience with this?

Assuming that all the plants involved are E. purpurea and not some other
species of Echinacea like E. pallida or E. angustifolia, they will
readily cross-pollinate with each other. What varieties are the 'red'
and 'white' plants? Presumably the white plants are 'Alba' or 'White
Swan' or some other common albino cultivar. White coneflower cultivars
are typically less vigorous than purple varieties. I would expect the
crosses between your regular coneflowers and the 'red' variety to be of
normal vigor though. The actual plants you put in the ground should
retain their variety traits, although you can expect them to produce
quite variable progeny via seed. If you deadhead immediately after the
bracts turn black, you don't have to worry about self-seeding. Don't be
surprised if the white plants 'fade' after several seasons. If you
haven't stuck them in the ground yet, I would suggest getting rid of the
whites altogether and replacing them with a pigmented variety, or some
shasta daisies or something.

Micah Mabelitini


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The plants themselves will stay whatever color they were. They are perennials.
The only part of the plant which will produce other colors will be the seeds,
but the Echinacea purpurea PLANT will stay the same. I've not heard of red,
where did you get red Echniacea? Oh, unless, of course, common names...and all.


On 11 Nov 2003 17:53:13 -0800, (Enuf) opined:

I have a large established bed of purple cone flowers. I recently
purchased some red and some white cone flowers also. I was told that
these colors come from hybrid plants, so my question is: Will they
cross polinate or will they retain their true colors? Anyone have any
experience with this?

Enuf

animaux wrote:

The plants themselves will stay whatever color they were. They are perennials.
The only part of the plant which will produce other colors will be the seeds,
but the Echinacea purpurea PLANT will stay the same. I've not heard of red,
where did you get red Echniacea? Oh, unless, of course, common names...and all.

Probably 'Ruby Star' or something.

Micah Mabelitini


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"Micah J. Mabelitini" wrote in message ...
animaux wrote:

The plants themselves will stay whatever color they were. They are perennials.
The only part of the plant which will produce other colors will be the seeds,
but the Echinacea purpurea PLANT will stay the same. I've not heard of red,
where did you get red Echniacea? Oh, unless, of course, common names...and all.

Probably 'Ruby Star' or something.

Micah Mabelitini


That's it - Ruby Star and White Swan. If they tend to cross, I'll keep
them separated. Would about 50 ft. separation work, or will the bees &
butterflies cross pollinate them at any distance?
Right now,I'm thinking a bed of red & white coneflowers along with
blue russian sage. Since my soil tends to be dry, that combination
should work together.

Enuf

Enuf wrote:

"Micah J. Mabelitini" wrote in message ...

animaux wrote:

The plants themselves will stay whatever color they were. They are perennials.
The only part of the plant which will produce other colors will be the seeds,
but the Echinacea purpurea PLANT will stay the same. I've not heard of red,
where did you get red Echniacea? Oh, unless, of course, common names...and all.

Probably 'Ruby Star' or something.

That's it - Ruby Star and White Swan. If they tend to cross, I'll keep
them separated. Would about 50 ft. separation work, or will the bees &
butterflies cross pollinate them at any distance?
Right now,I'm thinking a bed of red & white coneflowers along with
blue russian sage. Since my soil tends to be dry, that combination
should work together.

There's always the chance of a stray cross, but 50 feet should be
sufficient to prevent most occurrences.

Micah Mabelitini


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"Ann" wrote in message
...
(Enuf) expounded:

I have a large established bed of purple cone flowers. I recently
purchased some red and some white cone flowers also. I was told that
these colors come from hybrid plants, so my question is: Will they
cross polinate or will they retain their true colors? Anyone have any
experience with this?

I've yet to see a white variety of the coneflower that floats my boat. They
tend to be a muddy, tannish white, rather than a clear bright white. I agree
with the poster who suggests a shasta daisy or some other white daisy if you
want that color in a particular area of the garden. However, if you're
growing them particularly for the shape of the flower and using it in
arrangements or something, I guess that's different.

"gregpresley" expounded:

I've yet to see a white variety of the coneflower that floats my boat. They
tend to be a muddy, tannish white, rather than a clear bright white. I agree
with the poster who suggests a shasta daisy or some other white daisy if you
want that color in a particular area of the garden. However, if you're
growing them particularly for the shape of the flower and using it in
arrangements or something, I guess that's different.

I agree, Pallida is very....insipid, I guess. And not very vigorous,
at least for me.

--
Ann, Gardening in zone 6a
Just south of Boston, MA
********************************

Ann wrote:

"gregpresley" expounded:

I've yet to see a white variety of the coneflower that floats my boat. They
tend to be a muddy, tannish white, rather than a clear bright white. I agree
with the poster who suggests a shasta daisy or some other white daisy if you
want that color in a particular area of the garden. However, if you're
growing them particularly for the shape of the flower and using it in
arrangements or something, I guess that's different.

I agree, Pallida is very....insipid, I guess. And not very vigorous,
at least for me.

White purple coneflower isn't E. pallida. It is several different
cultivated varieties of E. purpurea, namely 'Alba' and 'White Swan' (and
a few other less common varieties). The 'pale' in pale purple coneflower
refers to the pollen color, which usually appears white, as opposed to
other species of Echinacea which have yellow pollen. Ligule color has NO
bearing on the differentiation between E. purpurea and E. pallida. In
fact, many species of Echinacea, including E. purpurea and E. pallida,
have a ligule color which varies along a north-south cline, with more
darkly colored ligules in northern populations, giving way to nearly
white ligules in more southerly populations. Even pollen color is not
always sufficient to identify E. pallida in the wild, as there is some
intergradation with E. sanguinea and E. simulata. As far as
differentiating E. purpurea from E. pallida though, the plants look very
much different, with E. pallida having more lanceolate leaves and a
taproot, as well as other distinguishing characters. E. purpurea is the
only species of Echinacea with a fibrous root system. Ligule color is
only useful for differentiating E. paradoxa from other species, because
it has bright yellow ligules while all other species of Echinacea have
purple/magenta/pink ligules.

As far as the lack of vigor in the albino cultivars, I totally agree. In
my experience, they grow slower, are less resistant to pests, and they
really aren't white. The OP mentioned that they were doing a
red/white/blue thing, using E. purpurea 'Ruby Star' and 'White Swan' for
the red and white. They will come to find that their red/white/blue
motif is actually a magenta/****-yellow/blue motif.

Micah Mabelitini


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On 12 Nov 2003 16:58:25 -0800, (Enuf) opined:

"Micah J. Mabelitini" wrote in message ...
animaux wrote:

The plants themselves will stay whatever color they were. They are perennials.
The only part of the plant which will produce other colors will be the seeds,
but the Echinacea purpurea PLANT will stay the same. I've not heard of red,
where did you get red Echniacea? Oh, unless, of course, common names...and all.

Probably 'Ruby Star' or something.

Micah Mabelitini


That's it - Ruby Star and White Swan. If they tend to cross, I'll keep
them separated. Would about 50 ft. separation work, or will the bees &
butterflies cross pollinate them at any distance?
Right now,I'm thinking a bed of red & white coneflowers along with
blue russian sage. Since my soil tends to be dry, that combination
should work together.

Enuf

The plant will remain the same, it's the seeds which will hybridize, possibly.
Just plant them where you want. If you notice seeds germinating, either let
them come up to see what you have, or pull the plants and move those. The
original plants will not change from their original color.

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:36:15 -0800, "gregpresley" opined:


"Ann" wrote in message
.. .
(Enuf) expounded:

I have a large established bed of purple cone flowers. I recently
purchased some red and some white cone flowers also. I was told that
these colors come from hybrid plants, so my question is: Will they
cross polinate or will they retain their true colors? Anyone have any
experience with this?

I've yet to see a white variety of the coneflower that floats my boat. They
tend to be a muddy, tannish white, rather than a clear bright white. I agree
with the poster who suggests a shasta daisy or some other white daisy if you
want that color in a particular area of the garden. However, if you're
growing them particularly for the shape of the flower and using it in
arrangements or something, I guess that's different.


My 'White Swan' are a clear, bright white.

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 05:45:57 -0500, Ann opined:

"gregpresley" expounded:

I've yet to see a white variety of the coneflower that floats my boat. They
tend to be a muddy, tannish white, rather than a clear bright white. I agree
with the poster who suggests a shasta daisy or some other white daisy if you
want that color in a particular area of the garden. However, if you're
growing them particularly for the shape of the flower and using it in
arrangements or something, I guess that's different.

I agree, Pallida is very....insipid, I guess. And not very vigorous,
at least for me.

E.pallida is the spp.

animaux wrote:

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:36:15 -0800, "gregpresley" opined:


"Ann" wrote in message
.. .
(Enuf) expounded:

I have a large established bed of purple cone flowers. I recently
purchased some red and some white cone flowers also. I was told that
these colors come from hybrid plants, so my question is: Will they
cross polinate or will they retain their true colors? Anyone have any
experience with this?

I've yet to see a white variety of the coneflower that floats my boat. They
tend to be a muddy, tannish white, rather than a clear bright white. I agree
with the poster who suggests a shasta daisy or some other white daisy if you
want that color in a particular area of the garden. However, if you're
growing them particularly for the shape of the flower and using it in
arrangements or something, I guess that's different.


My 'White Swan' are a clear, bright white.

Do you live in the deep south or southwest? I would expect the albinos
to appear more white in hotter climates. Also, 'White Swan' tends to be
more white than 'Alba' and some of the others.

Micah Mabelitini


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"Micah J. Mabelitini" wrote in message
...
animaux wrote:

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:36:15 -0800, "gregpresley"
opined:


"Ann" wrote in message
.. .
(Enuf) expounded:

I have a large established bed of purple cone flowers. I recently
purchased some red and some white cone flowers also. I was told that
these colors come from hybrid plants, so my question is: Will they
cross polinate or will they retain their true colors? Anyone have
any
experience with this?

I've yet to see a white variety of the coneflower that floats my boat.
They
tend to be a muddy, tannish white, rather than a clear bright white. I
agree
with the poster who suggests a shasta daisy or some other white daisy
if you
want that color in a particular area of the garden. However, if you're
growing them particularly for the shape of the flower and using it in
arrangements or something, I guess that's different.


My 'White Swan' are a clear, bright white.

Do you live in the deep south or southwest? I would expect the albinos
to appear more white in hotter climates. Also, 'White Swan' tends to be
more white than 'Alba' and some of the others.

Micah Mabelitini

I'd agree with Vic - my 'White Swan' is a true bright white, bloomed all
summer and is quite vigorous. And I certainly do not live in a hot climate.
Personally, I find the purple and pink forms rather insipid - very washed
out in tone.

pam - gardengal