Pam - gardengal wrote:

"Micah J. Mabelitini" wrote in message
...
animaux wrote:

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:36:15 -0800, "gregpresley"
opined:


"Ann" wrote in message
.. .
(Enuf) expounded:

I have a large established bed of purple cone flowers. I recently
purchased some red and some white cone flowers also. I was told that
these colors come from hybrid plants, so my question is: Will they
cross polinate or will they retain their true colors? Anyone have
any
experience with this?

I've yet to see a white variety of the coneflower that floats my boat.
They
tend to be a muddy, tannish white, rather than a clear bright white. I
agree
with the poster who suggests a shasta daisy or some other white daisy
if you
want that color in a particular area of the garden. However, if you're
growing them particularly for the shape of the flower and using it in
arrangements or something, I guess that's different.


My 'White Swan' are a clear, bright white.

Do you live in the deep south or southwest? I would expect the albinos
to appear more white in hotter climates. Also, 'White Swan' tends to be
more white than 'Alba' and some of the others.

Micah Mabelitini

I'd agree with Vic - my 'White Swan' is a true bright white, bloomed all
summer and is quite vigorous. And I certainly do not live in a hot climate.
Personally, I find the purple and pink forms rather insipid - very washed
out in tone.

pam - gardengal

Color interpretation is a highly subjective thing. I have personally
never seen an albino example of E. purpurea that can match say, a shasta
daisy as far as whiteness goes (not that I care much for shasta
daisies...I greatly prefer a white coneflower). E. purpurea is a highly
variable plant regarding ligule color...temperature, soil conditions and
precipitation all affect ligule development. There is also a good bit of
color variability among the different albino cultivars. 'White Swan' is
one of the whiter ones. The somewhat less common 'Alba' on the other
hand, is more of a pale yellow-green color (probably the reason it's
less common). As far as the purple types being insipid, most do have
that washed out appearance, though some cultivars like 'Ruby Star' are
much improved in that regard. As far as plant vigor, the albino
cultivars are undeniably less vigorous than the common purple varieties
as a whole (you would be hard-pressed to find an authoritative source
that states otherwise), though they still do pretty good. Wild E.
purpurea is a *very* vigorous plant.

Micah Mabelitini


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"Micah J. Mabelitini" wrote in message
...
Pam - gardengal wrote:

"Micah J. Mabelitini" wrote in message
...
animaux wrote:

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:36:15 -0800, "gregpresley"
opined:


"Ann" wrote in message
.. .
(Enuf) expounded:

I have a large established bed of purple cone flowers. I
recently
purchased some red and some white cone flowers also. I was told
that
these colors come from hybrid plants, so my question is: Will
they
cross polinate or will they retain their true colors? Anyone
have
any
experience with this?

I've yet to see a white variety of the coneflower that floats my
boat.
They
tend to be a muddy, tannish white, rather than a clear bright
white. I
agree
with the poster who suggests a shasta daisy or some other white
daisy
if you
want that color in a particular area of the garden. However, if
you're
growing them particularly for the shape of the flower and using it
in
arrangements or something, I guess that's different.


My 'White Swan' are a clear, bright white.

Do you live in the deep south or southwest? I would expect the albinos
to appear more white in hotter climates. Also, 'White Swan' tends to
be
more white than 'Alba' and some of the others.

Micah Mabelitini

I'd agree with Vic - my 'White Swan' is a true bright white, bloomed all
summer and is quite vigorous. And I certainly do not live in a hot
climate.
Personally, I find the purple and pink forms rather insipid - very
washed
out in tone.

pam - gardengal

Color interpretation is a highly subjective thing. I have personally
never seen an albino example of E. purpurea that can match say, a shasta
daisy as far as whiteness goes (not that I care much for shasta
daisies...I greatly prefer a white coneflower). E. purpurea is a highly
variable plant regarding ligule color...temperature, soil conditions and
precipitation all affect ligule development. There is also a good bit of
color variability among the different albino cultivars. 'White Swan' is
one of the whiter ones. The somewhat less common 'Alba' on the other
hand, is more of a pale yellow-green color (probably the reason it's
less common). As far as the purple types being insipid, most do have
that washed out appearance, though some cultivars like 'Ruby Star' are
much improved in that regard. As far as plant vigor, the albino
cultivars are undeniably less vigorous than the common purple varieties
as a whole (you would be hard-pressed to find an authoritative source
that states otherwise), though they still do pretty good. Wild E.
purpurea is a *very* vigorous plant.

Micah Mabelitini
I'm in zone 3 and I've noticed that over the past 4 yrs my White swan gets
whiter and whiter. It used to be more yellowish now very white. Some of the
smaller flowers that develop later int he year are more yellowish - but the
big ones are definitely white.

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On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:36:04 -0400, "Micah J. Mabelitini"
opined:

Do you live in the deep south or southwest? I would expect the albinos
to appear more white in hotter climates. Also, 'White Swan' tends to be
more white than 'Alba' and some of the others.

Micah Mabelitini

Yes, south central Texas.

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:39:58 GMT, "Pam - gardengal"
opined:

I'd agree with Vic - my 'White Swan' is a true bright white, bloomed all
summer and is quite vigorous. And I certainly do not live in a hot climate.
Personally, I find the purple and pink forms rather insipid - very washed
out in tone.

pam - gardengal


Since they are prolific here in my climate and produce flowers most of the year,
if I keep the pinks and purple deadheaded, I have a pretty decent color. I have
taken to scattering seed everywhere and I have pretty much an entire garden full
of it. I dig many out and pot them up in spring for people who trade at the
garden clubs. For some reason, they love when I bring E.purpurea and E.pallida.
To me these are very common, but to them, well, they love them.

V

animaux expounded:

E.pallida is the spp.

Yea, I know, that's the white one I grew.

--
Ann, Gardening in zone 6a
Just south of Boston, MA
********************************

"Micah J. Mabelitini" expounded:

White purple coneflower isn't E. pallida.

That's debatable. It's the white echinacea I grew. I didn't like it.
I do know the difference )
--
Ann, Gardening in zone 6a
Just south of Boston, MA
********************************

Ann wrote:

"Micah J. Mabelitini" expounded:

White purple coneflower isn't E. pallida.

That's debatable. It's the white echinacea I grew. I didn't like it.
I do know the difference )

What was the cultivar name?

Micah Mabelitini


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On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:48:08 -0500, Ann opined:

animaux expounded:

E.pallida is the spp.

Yea, I know, that's the white one I grew.

Actually, mine was really sucking for the past few years, then I moved it into a
dirt dry, horribly infertile spot and it did great. It's interesting how
certain plants really do thrive on neglect. I'm slowly learning how to neglect!
I will have to say that in all the years I've been gardening, this year was my
best, or should I say, most appreciated by me. I always see flaws. This year,
I was truly happy. Of course tomorrow I will go out and move things around and
I have about 15 shrubs and three trees to plant. I have no idea where I'm going
to put a burr oak, but I got a 10 gallon tree, which was at least 12 feet tall
for 16 dollars at Walmart. THAT, I could not pass on.

V

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:48:58 -0500, Ann opined:

"Micah J. Mabelitini" expounded:

White purple coneflower isn't E. pallida.

That's debatable. It's the white echinacea I grew. I didn't like it.
I do know the difference )

E. pallida is white, but it's not E.purpurea 'White Swan' or 'Alba.' It's not
even the same plant! The pallida is sort of rangy, but like I said, it looked
much better this year with neglect.

"Micah J. Mabelitini" wrote in message ...
animaux wrote:

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:36:15 -0800, "gregpresley" opined:


"Ann" wrote in message
.. .
(Enuf) expounded:

I have a large established bed of purple cone flowers. I recently
purchased some red and some white cone flowers also. I was told that
these colors come from hybrid plants, so my question is: Will they
cross polinate or will they retain their true colors? Anyone have any
experience with this?

I've yet to see a white variety of the coneflower that floats my boat. They
tend to be a muddy, tannish white, rather than a clear bright white. I agree
with the poster who suggests a shasta daisy or some other white daisy if you
want that color in a particular area of the garden. However, if you're
growing them particularly for the shape of the flower and using it in
arrangements or something, I guess that's different.


My 'White Swan' are a clear, bright white.

Do you live in the deep south or southwest? I would expect the albinos
to appear more white in hotter climates. Also, 'White Swan' tends to be
more white than 'Alba' and some of the others.

Micah Mabelitini



I do live in the south. The nursery where I bought my plants (NC) had
a large variety of echinacea, many of them with blooms. I was
impressed with the White Swan because it's blooms were pure white so I
decided to try them.

Enuf

My 'White Swan' are a clear, bright white.

Do you live in the deep south or southwest? I would expect the albinos
to appear more white in hotter climates. Also, 'White Swan' tends to be
more white than 'Alba' and some of the others.

Micah Mabelitini

I'd agree with Vic - my 'White Swan' is a true bright white, bloomed all
summer and is quite vigorous. And I certainly do not live in a hot climate.
Personally, I find the purple and pink forms rather insipid - very washed
out in tone.

pam - gardengal

My purple ones are picture perfect for most of the summer, getting
that washed out color only at the end of the growing season.
They are listed as drought tolerant and I've found that's what they
like best - well drained soil and just enough water to keep them
alive. IMHO, too much water seems to affect growth & appearance.

Enuf

animaux expounded:


Actually, mine was really sucking for the past few years, then I moved it into a
dirt dry, horribly infertile spot and it did great. It's interesting how
certain plants really do thrive on neglect. I'm slowly learning how to neglect!

I think that was the biggest problem with mine, it just didn't like
the rich soil. Purpurea seems to love it, I've got babies all over the
place!

--
Ann, Gardening in zone 6a
Just south of Boston, MA
********************************

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:07:01 -0500, Ann opined:

animaux expounded:


Actually, mine was really sucking for the past few years, then I moved it into a
dirt dry, horribly infertile spot and it did great. It's interesting how
certain plants really do thrive on neglect. I'm slowly learning how to neglect!

I think that was the biggest problem with mine, it just didn't like
the rich soil. Purpurea seems to love it, I've got babies all over the
place!

Yes, babies abound. I've not had the pallida re-seed. I try, but no cigar. A
new problem I have is that I put out a million wildflower seeds and for those
areas I can't use mulch till the plants come up. The larkspur, bluebonnets and
allysum are up, but the poppies, calendula and cosmos won't be up till spring.
I suppose I can use a light mulching.

I also had some time a week or so ago, digging out every piece of Nandina
domestica. That was a two day job for 6 plants. They've been replaced by dwarf
yaupon hollies.

V

The message
from animaux contains these words:


I also had some time a week or so ago, digging out every piece of Nandina
domestica. That was a two day job for 6 plants. They've been
replaced by dwarf
yaupon hollies.

Did you get rid of it because you prefer native plants, or some other
reason? How big do they grow in your warm climate?

Janet (just planted one)

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:16:55 GMT, Janet Baraclough
opined:

Did you get rid of it because you prefer native plants, or some other
reason? How big do they grow in your warm climate?

Janet (just planted one)

They are an invasive plant, here in Texas. The N.domestica (aka heavenly
bamboo) spreads by underground runners. They are noxious to the point they are
finally on a "don't plant" list, put out by our agricultural agents. One plant
can become 10 feet tall and as wide, but not from one base, they spread and go
deep. I have six plants and in the four years after the builder put them in,
they had to be cut back at least 25 times and covered a border in the front of
my house about 30 feet wide...and running.

There are other nandina's which will do well here and not invade. 'Nana' is one
which has beautiful color and stays evergreen. Just the N.domestica is the one.

Also, yes, I am trying to remove all non-native species and replace with
natives. Slowly, I'm getting there.

Victoria