North America After the Collapse
 

In North America at present, including Canada, there are about 500,000 square
miles of mountain forests that are removed from major population centers
and in a climate that is cold-temperate or better.

Assuming 300,000,000 people in the U.S. and Canada, and that 5% of those
people can make it to, or are already in, the Rockies (etc.), that gives these
areas a post-Collapse population density of approximately 30 people per
square mile, or about 20 acres apiece, back-to-back.

(your neighbor will be able to hit your house with a thrown rock from their
front porch)


(these areas include a lot of grasslands, too, but are predominantly forested)


In these conditions, only a survival group that can remain inconspicuous will
have a chance of avoiding continual battles with refugees or roving bandits,
or continually running from them, and the only way to accomplish this is to
have a plant-based lifestyle.



If you HAVE to run, then you had better know your wild edible plants, of
which there are more than 1800 species in North America, because trapping
and hunting will SERIOUSLY slow you down...


AC

North America After the Collapse
 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:28:29 GMT, Alan Connor babbled:

Buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz,
buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz,
buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz,
buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz.

And it made as much sense as anything else he's ever posted. ;)


It is easier to fight for our principles than to live up to them.-Alfred Adler

North America After the Collapse
 

Xref: kermit rec.gardens.edible:66868 rec.gardens:262136 misc.survivalism:514397 misc.rural:121978 rec.backcountry:177449

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:28:29 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:



In North America at present, including Canada, there are about 500,000 square
miles of mountain forests that are removed from major population centers
and in a climate that is cold-temperate or better.

Assuming 300,000,000 people in the U.S. and Canada, and that 5% of those
people can make it to, or are already in, the Rockies (etc.), that gives these
areas a post-Collapse population density of approximately 30 people per
square mile, or about 20 acres apiece, back-to-back.

(your neighbor will be able to hit your house with a thrown rock from their
front porch)


(these areas include a lot of grasslands, too, but are predominantly forested)


In these conditions, only a survival group that can remain inconspicuous will
have a chance of avoiding continual battles with refugees or roving bandits,
or continually running from them, and the only way to accomplish this is to
have a plant-based lifestyle.



If you HAVE to run, then you had better know your wild edible plants, of
which there are more than 1800 species in North America, because trapping
and hunting will SERIOUSLY slow you down...


AC

Why would a live by the skin of your teeth existence be preferable to
staying in your own neighborhood or town and working together with your
neighbors and friends? Furthermore...What Collapse?

g.c.

North America After the Collapse
 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:28:29 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:



In North America at present, including Canada, there are about 500,000 square
miles of mountain forests that are removed from major population centers
and in a climate that is cold-temperate or better.

Assuming 300,000,000 people in the U.S. and Canada, and that 5% of those
people can make it to, or are already in, the Rockies (etc.), that gives these
areas a post-Collapse population density of approximately 30 people per
square mile, or about 20 acres apiece, back-to-back.

(your neighbor will be able to hit your house with a thrown rock from their
front porch)

So, you are saying that after the collapse, my neighbors biceps are
going to mutate into such freakishly large proportions that they will
be able to throw rocks 20 acres?


(these areas include a lot of grasslands, too, but are predominantly forested)



In these conditions, only a survival group that can remain inconspicuous will
have a chance of avoiding continual battles with refugees or roving bandits,
or continually running from them, and the only way to accomplish this is to
have a plant-based lifestyle.

Says you. I happen to disagree entirely and I count your opinion as
much less important then my own. Then again, I am planning for a much
more likely event than the total and permanent collapse of
civilization.


If you HAVE to run, then you had better know your wild edible plants, of
which there are more than 1800 species in North America, because trapping
and hunting will SERIOUSLY slow you down...


AC
kb9wfk

North America After the Collapse
 

Why would a live by the skin of your teeth existence be preferable to
staying in your own neighborhood or town and working together with your
neighbors and friends? Furthermore...What Collapse?

g.c.
Yeah... What collapse is that?

North America After the Collapse
 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:28:29 GMT, Alan Connor said:



In North America at present, including Canada, there are about 500,000 square
miles of mountain forests that are removed from major population centers
and in a climate that is cold-temperate or better.

Assuming 300,000,000 people in the U.S. and Canada, and that 5% of those
people can make it to, or are already in, the Rockies (etc.), that gives these
areas a post-Collapse population density of approximately 30 people per
square mile, or about 20 acres apiece, back-to-back.

(your neighbor will be able to hit your house with a thrown rock from their
front porch)


(these areas include a lot of grasslands, too, but are predominantly forested)


In these conditions, only a survival group that can remain inconspicuous will
have a chance of avoiding continual battles with refugees or roving bandits,
or continually running from them, and the only way to accomplish this is to
have a plant-based lifestyle.



If you HAVE to run, then you had better know your wild edible plants, of
which there are more than 1800 species in North America, because trapping
and hunting will SERIOUSLY slow you down...


AC

Dammit boy, are you still spewing the same old shit ?
Have you really ever given any thought as to what would cause such a
collaps ? IMO only an all out nuclear war could do it, and in that
case most living in the cities are dead meat. If they don't get killed
from the blasts, they will die soon after from the radiation, and
disease (living in a city after it has been nuked would be like living
inside of a septic tank, because of the death and decay all around).
The only survivors would be those who plan and prepared in advance and
most of those would already be living in the country. I just don't see
hoards of refugees heading for the hills after a nuclear war, I see
those that are foolish enough to try dying along the way. The ones who
do happen to make it will IMO adapt very quickly, they will have no
choice.

This "all the animals will soon be hunted out" shit is crap because in
an all out nuclear war the animals will die from radiation and the
other effects of nuclear weapons. Same goes for plants, they will all
die and the land will turn into a bearon waste land with nothing but
death everywhere. The only plants that 'may' survive might be the
trees because they can go dormant for quite awhile. Be sure to save
your seeds because it may take years before the radiation in the soil
to decay to safe levels, so planting a garden is out of the question,
unless you have enough electricity to grow indoors. The only humans
that will survive long term will be the ones who prepared to survive
for the long haul. (IOW, at least 5 years of supplys stashed away per
person)

Another event that would cause the kind of collaps that you invision
would be an "earth killing astriod" and in that case there would be
very ';few' survivors prepared or not. However IMO there would be
enough junk left around for those few survivors to get by on, if
they'er smart enough.

North America After the Collapse
 

"George Cleveland" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:28:29 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:



In North America at present, including Canada, there are about 500,000
square
miles of mountain forests that are removed from major population centers
and in a climate that is cold-temperate or better.

Assuming 300,000,000 people in the U.S. and Canada, and that 5% of those
people can make it to, or are already in, the Rockies (etc.), that gives
these
areas a post-Collapse population density of approximately 30 people per
square mile, or about 20 acres apiece, back-to-back.

(your neighbor will be able to hit your house with a thrown rock from
their
front porch)


(these areas include a lot of grasslands, too, but are predominantly
forested)


In these conditions, only a survival group that can remain inconspicuous
will
have a chance of avoiding continual battles with refugees or roving
bandits,
or continually running from them, and the only way to accomplish this is
to
have a plant-based lifestyle.



If you HAVE to run, then you had better know your wild edible plants, of
which there are more than 1800 species in North America, because trapping
and hunting will SERIOUSLY slow you down...


AC

Why would a live by the skin of your teeth existence be preferable to
staying in your own neighborhood or town and working together with your
neighbors and friends? Furthermore...What Collapse?

His!

North America After the Collapse
 

"KB9WFK" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:28:29 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:



In North America at present, including Canada, there are about 500,000
square
miles of mountain forests that are removed from major population centers
and in a climate that is cold-temperate or better.

Assuming 300,000,000 people in the U.S. and Canada, and that 5% of those
people can make it to, or are already in, the Rockies (etc.), that gives
these
areas a post-Collapse population density of approximately 30 people per
square mile, or about 20 acres apiece, back-to-back.

(your neighbor will be able to hit your house with a thrown rock from
their
front porch)

So, you are saying that after the collapse, my neighbors biceps are
going to mutate into such freakishly large proportions that they will
be able to throw rocks 20 acres?


Can you say.....trebuchet....? That would do the job quite nicely.
Quite low tech to boot!

North America After the Collapse
 

RE/
If you HAVE to run, then you had better know your wild edible plants, of
which there are more than 1800 species in North America, because trapping
and hunting will SERIOUSLY slow you down...

Think of how old you are.

Now pick a number: the number of estimated years between you and a natural,
inevitable death from old age.

Life is sweet - albiet much too short - and either one of us could wake up dead
tomorrow - heart attack, virus, drunk driver...or just plain stupidity.

Stop thinking about the end of the world and enjoy what you have left



--
PeteCresswell

North America After the Collapse
 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 01:40:26 GMT, George Cleveland wrote:


On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:28:29 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:



In North America at present, including Canada, there are about 500,000 square
miles of mountain forests that are removed from major population centers
and in a climate that is cold-temperate or better.

Assuming 300,000,000 people in the U.S. and Canada, and that 5% of those
people can make it to, or are already in, the Rockies (etc.), that gives these
areas a post-Collapse population density of approximately 30 people per
square mile, or about 20 acres apiece, back-to-back.

(your neighbor will be able to hit your house with a thrown rock from their
front porch)


(these areas include a lot of grasslands, too, but are predominantly forested)


In these conditions, only a survival group that can remain inconspicuous will
have a chance of avoiding continual battles with refugees or roving bandits,
or continually running from them, and the only way to accomplish this is to
have a plant-based lifestyle.



If you HAVE to run, then you had better know your wild edible plants, of
which there are more than 1800 species in North America, because trapping
and hunting will SERIOUSLY slow you down...


AC

Why would a live by the skin of your teeth existence be preferable to
staying in your own neighborhood or town and working together with your
neighbors and friends?

Who said anything about a "skin of your teeth existence". It is possible to
live very comfortably with no animal products and in a camoflauged settlement.


As for staying with your friends and neighbors, well, if you live on a road,
then refugees and bandits will find you, easily, and you'll have to deal with
them.

(less so with a small, remote town, of course)


It is also very hard to be self-sufficient in a town and impossible if the
majority of people aren't prepared.

The resources generally aren't the land and trees and minerals and water.
(most municipal water systems will not survive and are very easy to sabotage,
giving
bandits a way to bring you to your knees)


Furthermore...What Collapse?

The one that pillaging the planet with a lifestyle that requires a large
under-class inevitably leads to.

Like the Great Depression.


That's all the Collapse is, a Great Depression in a world with too many
unhappy people that lacks the resources and social cohesivenss to recover.

It is the Final Depression.


AC

North America After the Collapse
 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 01:55:17 GMT, Ross wrote:



Why would a live by the skin of your teeth existence be preferable to
staying in your own neighborhood or town and working together with your
neighbors and friends? Furthermore...What Collapse?

g.c.
Yeah... What collapse is that?


See the other post, Okay?


AC

North America After the Collapse
 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 02:33:59 GMT, "(Pete Cresswell)" wrote:

RE/
If you HAVE to run, then you had better know your wild edible plants, of
which there are more than 1800 species in North America, because trapping
and hunting will SERIOUSLY slow you down...

Think of how old you are.

Now pick a number: the number of estimated years between you and a natural,
inevitable death from old age.

Life is sweet - albiet much too short - and either one of us could wake up dead
tomorrow - heart attack, virus, drunk driver...or just plain stupidity.

Stop thinking about the end of the world and enjoy what you have left

Excellent advice! However, what Alan enjoys is this fantasy life of
his. g
Sue

North America After the Collapse
 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 01:40:26 GMT, George Cleveland wrote:


On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:28:29 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:



In North America at present, including Canada, there are about 500,000 square
miles of mountain forests that are removed from major population centers
and in a climate that is cold-temperate or better.

Assuming 300,000,000 people in the U.S. and Canada, and that 5% of those
people can make it to, or are already in, the Rockies (etc.), that gives these
areas a post-Collapse population density of approximately 30 people per
square mile, or about 20 acres apiece, back-to-back.

(your neighbor will be able to hit your house with a thrown rock from their
front porch)


(these areas include a lot of grasslands, too, but are predominantly forested)


In these conditions, only a survival group that can remain inconspicuous will
have a chance of avoiding continual battles with refugees or roving bandits,
or continually running from them, and the only way to accomplish this is to
have a plant-based lifestyle.



If you HAVE to run, then you had better know your wild edible plants, of
which there are more than 1800 species in North America, because trapping
and hunting will SERIOUSLY slow you down...


AC

Why would a live by the skin of your teeth existence be preferable to
staying in your own neighborhood or town and working together with your
neighbors and friends?

Who said anything about a "skin of your teeth existence". It is possible to
live very comfortably with no animal products and in a camoflauged settlement.


As for staying with your friends and neighbors, well, if you live on a road,
then refugees and bandits will find you, easily, and you'll have to deal with
them.

(less so with a small, remote town, of course)


It is also very hard to be self-sufficient in a town and impossible if the
majority of people aren't prepared.

The resources generally aren't the land and trees and minerals and water.
(most municipal water systems will not survive and are very easy to sabotage,
giving
bandits a way to bring you to your knees)


Furthermore...What Collapse?

The one that pillaging the planet with a lifestyle that requires a large
under-class inevitably leads to.

Like the Great Depression.


That's all the Collapse is, a Great Depression in a world with too many
unhappy people that lacks the resources and social cohesivenss to recover.

It is the Final Depression.


AC

North America After the Collapse
 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 01:55:17 GMT, Ross wrote:



Why would a live by the skin of your teeth existence be preferable to
staying in your own neighborhood or town and working together with your
neighbors and friends? Furthermore...What Collapse?

g.c.
Yeah... What collapse is that?


See the other post, Okay?


AC

North America After the Collapse
 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 02:33:59 GMT, "(Pete Cresswell)" wrote:

RE/
If you HAVE to run, then you had better know your wild edible plants, of
which there are more than 1800 species in North America, because trapping
and hunting will SERIOUSLY slow you down...

Think of how old you are.

Now pick a number: the number of estimated years between you and a natural,
inevitable death from old age.

Life is sweet - albiet much too short - and either one of us could wake up dead
tomorrow - heart attack, virus, drunk driver...or just plain stupidity.

Stop thinking about the end of the world and enjoy what you have left

Excellent advice! However, what Alan enjoys is this fantasy life of
his. g
Sue

North America After the Collapse
 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 02:33:59 GMT, (Pete Cresswell) wrote:


RE/
If you HAVE to run, then you had better know your wild edible plants, of
which there are more than 1800 species in North America, because trapping
and hunting will SERIOUSLY slow you down...

Think of how old you are.

Now pick a number: the number of estimated years between you and a natural,
inevitable death from old age.

Life is sweet - albiet much too short - and either one of us could wake up dead
tomorrow - heart attack, virus, drunk driver...or just plain stupidity.


Sure.

Stop thinking about the end of the world and enjoy what you have left



I am not thinking about the end of the world. But of the end of an incredibly
destructive culture that MUST die, and soon, or there will be no life on
Earth.

Sorry buddy, reality won't go away just because you don't choose to think
about it.

What I hear you saying is: Well, there's a 99% chance of rain today, but
I am going to leave my raincoat and umbrella behind because it depresses
me to think about the rain.


If you stick your head in the sand, something nasty may very well come along
and **** you in the ass.

And you DESERVE it.

(by-the-way, I think Industrial-Capitalism STINKS and not only enjoy thinking
about another way to live, but find the subject fascinating)



AC

North America After the Collapse
 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 02:33:59 GMT, (Pete Cresswell) wrote:


RE/
If you HAVE to run, then you had better know your wild edible plants, of
which there are more than 1800 species in North America, because trapping
and hunting will SERIOUSLY slow you down...

Think of how old you are.

Now pick a number: the number of estimated years between you and a natural,
inevitable death from old age.

Life is sweet - albiet much too short - and either one of us could wake up dead
tomorrow - heart attack, virus, drunk driver...or just plain stupidity.


Sure.

Stop thinking about the end of the world and enjoy what you have left



I am not thinking about the end of the world. But of the end of an incredibly
destructive culture that MUST die, and soon, or there will be no life on
Earth.

Sorry buddy, reality won't go away just because you don't choose to think
about it.

What I hear you saying is: Well, there's a 99% chance of rain today, but
I am going to leave my raincoat and umbrella behind because it depresses
me to think about the rain.


If you stick your head in the sand, something nasty may very well come along
and **** you in the ass.

And you DESERVE it.

(by-the-way, I think Industrial-Capitalism STINKS and not only enjoy thinking
about another way to live, but find the subject fascinating)



AC

North America After the Collapse
 

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:28:29 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:



In North America at present, including Canada, there are about 500,000
square
miles of mountain forests that are removed from major population centers
and in a climate that is cold-temperate or better.

Assuming 300,000,000 people in the U.S. and Canada, and that 5% of those
people can make it to, or are already in, the Rockies (etc.), that gives
these
areas a post-Collapse population density of approximately 30 people per
square mile, or about 20 acres apiece, back-to-back.

(your neighbor will be able to hit your house with a thrown rock from
their
front porch)


(these areas include a lot of grasslands, too, but are predominantly
forested)


In these conditions, only a survival group that can remain inconspicuous
will
have a chance of avoiding continual battles with refugees or roving
bandits,
or continually running from them, and the only way to accomplish this is
to
have a plant-based lifestyle.



If you HAVE to run, then you had better know your wild edible plants, of
which there are more than 1800 species in North America, because trapping
and hunting will SERIOUSLY slow you down...


AC

Why would a live by the skin of your teeth existence be preferable to
staying in your own neighborhood or town and working together with your
neighbors and friends?

alanc is obsessed with the idea of running for the hills and living
off the land. In fact he's claimed that's what he and an unspecified
group have already done, setting up a defensive parameter that
includes boobytraps and poison gas generators, as well as trying
to drive any neighbors away by poisoning their water and killing their
animals.

There are doubts as to his sanity...

Furthermore...What Collapse?

alanc dwells constantly on the idea of a coming collapse. He appears to
be one fo those people who are actually looking forward to it,
believing that the destruction of our current civilization will
give them the freedom and opportunity they don't have now. The means
by which The End Of The World As We Know It is to come about is less
important than their desire for it. Even though, in the actual event
of TEOTWAWKI, they will actually probably be the first to suffer...

FW

North America After the Collapse
 

KB9WFK wrote:

responding to "your neighbor will be able to hit your house with a
thrown rock from their front porch"

you are saying that after the collapse, my neighbors biceps are
going to mutate into such freakishly large proportions that they will
be able to throw rocks 20 acres?

Certainly he was exaggerating, but 20 acre plots aren't all that large.
Unless I can't do math in my head anymore (quite possible): if your
house was offset 80% off center towards the neighbor's lot and his
front porch offset similarly toward yours (not totally unreasonable),
the throw would be possible, I think (I could throw a rock close to 100
yards as a kid and I was far from the best). The concept is not hugely
off. From center to center, probably more on point, it would take a
great tee shot rather than a thrown rock.

North America After the Collapse
 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 02:43:51 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:

(snip)
Who said anything about a "skin of your teeth existence". It is possible to
live very comfortably with no animal products and in a camoflauged settlement.

Yeah, in a fantasy, ANYTHING is possible.


As for staying with your friends and neighbors, well, if you live on a road,
then refugees and bandits will find you, easily, and you'll have to deal with
them.

Yeah, everybody knows that refugees and bandits can ONLY travel on roads. :/

(less so with a small, remote town, of course)


It is also very hard to be self-sufficient in a town and impossible if the
majority of people aren't prepared.

The resources generally aren't the land and trees and minerals and water.
(most municipal water systems will not survive and are very easy to sabotage,
giving
bandits a way to bring you to your knees)

Yeah, land, trees, minerals and water don't exist in towns. :/


Furthermore...What Collapse?

The one that pillaging the planet with a lifestyle that requires a large
under-class inevitably leads to.

Like the Great Depression.

The Great Depression was just an almost-collapse of an economic system.


That's all the Collapse is, a Great Depression in a world with too many
unhappy people that lacks the resources and social cohesivenss to recover.

It is the Final Depression.

It ain't final until the Fat Lady sings. So far all I hear is a stupid man
crowing. ;)

North America After the Collapse
 

Well it will be a good thing when "America Collapse"
Then you will not have a ISP to post you crap!

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 03:28:33 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 02:33:59 GMT, (Pete Cresswell) wrote:


RE/
If you HAVE to run, then you had better know your wild edible plants, of
which there are more than 1800 species in North America, because trapping
and hunting will SERIOUSLY slow you down...

Think of how old you are.

Now pick a number: the number of estimated years between you and a natural,
inevitable death from old age.

Life is sweet - albiet much too short - and either one of us could wake up dead
tomorrow - heart attack, virus, drunk driver...or just plain stupidity.


Sure.

Stop thinking about the end of the world and enjoy what you have left



I am not thinking about the end of the world. But of the end of an incredibly
destructive culture that MUST die, and soon, or there will be no life on
Earth.

Sorry buddy, reality won't go away just because you don't choose to think
about it.

What I hear you saying is: Well, there's a 99% chance of rain today, but
I am going to leave my raincoat and umbrella behind because it depresses
me to think about the rain.


If you stick your head in the sand, something nasty may very well come along
and **** you in the ass.

And you DESERVE it.

(by-the-way, I think Industrial-Capitalism STINKS and not only enjoy thinking
about another way to live, but find the subject fascinating)



AC

North America After the Collapse
 

In article , Heynony
wrote:

KB9WFK wrote:

responding to "your neighbor will be able to hit your house with a
thrown rock from their front porch"

you are saying that after the collapse, my neighbors biceps are
going to mutate into such freakishly large proportions that they will
be able to throw rocks 20 acres?

Certainly he was exaggerating, but 20 acre plots aren't all that large.

TYPE ERROR: "Acres" are a unit of area, not a unit of distance.

It's simlar to saying "Bob is five pounds older than Fred."

You retards need to get off the Net.


--Tim May

North America After the Collapse
 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 04:52:18 GMT, Raid said:

Well it will be a good thing when "America Collapse"
Then you will not have a ISP to post you crap!

You must be new to the Alan Connor saga.
Alan and his band of hippies who live at the "wildwood" hippy commune
plan to weave their own ISP out of hemp fibers. You missed the
dissusion of how alan and his buddys hand rolled their own transistors
while sitting around the camp fire.

North America After the Collapse
 

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:31:14 -0800, Tim May
wrote:

In article , Heynony
wrote:

KB9WFK wrote:

responding to "your neighbor will be able to hit your house with a
thrown rock from their front porch"

you are saying that after the collapse, my neighbors biceps are
going to mutate into such freakishly large proportions that they will
be able to throw rocks 20 acres?

Certainly he was exaggerating, but 20 acre plots aren't all that large.

TYPE ERROR: "Acres" are a unit of area, not a unit of distance.

I think everyone was pretty much picturing the 20 acres as a square
and getting the distance from that. Note Heynony's reference to
placement of the houses on a 20 acre plot.

It's simlar to saying "Bob is five pounds older than Fred."

Who the hell are Bob and Fred and how many years taller is he?

You retards need to get off the Net.

--Tim May
Ouch. That really hurt my feelings Tim. I see the humour content of
my post missed you completely or did you really think that I was
serious about the mutated neighbor?
Talk about retards.. Kettle, meet Mr. Pot.
When I want my smart-assed replies peer reviewed I'll give you a call.
Perhaps you deserve killing...

kb9wfk

North America After the Collapse
 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 03:28:33 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 02:33:59 GMT, (Pete Cresswell) wrote:


RE/
If you HAVE to run, then you had better know your wild edible plants, of
which there are more than 1800 species in North America, because trapping
and hunting will SERIOUSLY slow you down...

Think of how old you are.

Now pick a number: the number of estimated years between you and a natural,
inevitable death from old age.

Life is sweet - albiet much too short - and either one of us could wake up dead
tomorrow - heart attack, virus, drunk driver...or just plain stupidity.


Sure.

Stop thinking about the end of the world and enjoy what you have left



I am not thinking about the end of the world. But of the end of an incredibly
destructive culture that MUST die, and soon, or there will be no life on
Earth.

Sorry buddy, reality won't go away just because you don't choose to think
about it.

Reality? Snicker. Since when have you become acquainted with
reality?


What I hear you saying is: Well, there's a 99% chance of rain today, but
I am going to leave my raincoat and umbrella behind because it depresses
me to think about the rain.

You need your hearing checked. You might get a reality check at the
same time.



If you stick your head in the sand, something nasty may very well come along
and **** you in the ass.

Fantasizing again, Alan/David?


And you DESERVE it.

(by-the-way, I think Industrial-Capitalism STINKS and not only enjoy thinking
about another way to live, but find the subject fascinating)

Aha. There ya go. "*Thinking* about another way to live."
*Thinking*, not *doing*. Alan/David, I'm proud of you. You've
finally come to terms with your fantasy life. Good Boy.
Sue



AC

North America After the Collapse
 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 05:52:06 GMT, KB9WFK wrote:

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:31:14 -0800, Tim May
wrote:

In article , Heynony
wrote:

KB9WFK wrote:

responding to "your neighbor will be able to hit your house with a
thrown rock from their front porch"

you are saying that after the collapse, my neighbors biceps are
going to mutate into such freakishly large proportions that they will
be able to throw rocks 20 acres?

Certainly he was exaggerating, but 20 acre plots aren't all that large.

TYPE ERROR: "Acres" are a unit of area, not a unit of distance.

I think everyone was pretty much picturing the 20 acres as a square
and getting the distance from that. Note Heynony's reference to
placement of the houses on a 20 acre plot.

It's simlar to saying "Bob is five pounds older than Fred."

Who the hell are Bob and Fred and how many years taller is he?

You retards need to get off the Net.

--Tim May
Ouch. That really hurt my feelings Tim. I see the humour content of
my post missed you completely or did you really think that I was
serious about the mutated neighbor?
Talk about retards.. Kettle, meet Mr. Pot.
When I want my smart-assed replies peer reviewed I'll give you a call.
Perhaps you deserve killing...

ROFL!
Sue who thoroughly enjoys your sense of humor

kb9wfk

North America After the Collapse
 

On 18 Jan 2004 04:37:13 GMT, (Frank White)
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:28:29 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:



In North America at present, including Canada, there are about 500,000
square
miles of mountain forests that are removed from major population centers
and in a climate that is cold-temperate or better.

Assuming 300,000,000 people in the U.S. and Canada, and that 5% of those
people can make it to, or are already in, the Rockies (etc.), that gives
these
areas a post-Collapse population density of approximately 30 people per
square mile, or about 20 acres apiece, back-to-back.

(your neighbor will be able to hit your house with a thrown rock from
their
front porch)


(these areas include a lot of grasslands, too, but are predominantly
forested)


In these conditions, only a survival group that can remain inconspicuous
will
have a chance of avoiding continual battles with refugees or roving
bandits,
or continually running from them, and the only way to accomplish this is
to
have a plant-based lifestyle.



If you HAVE to run, then you had better know your wild edible plants, of
which there are more than 1800 species in North America, because trapping
and hunting will SERIOUSLY slow you down...


AC

Why would a live by the skin of your teeth existence be preferable to
staying in your own neighborhood or town and working together with your
neighbors and friends?

alanc is obsessed with the idea of running for the hills and living
off the land. In fact he's claimed that's what he and an unspecified
group have already done, setting up a defensive parameter that
includes boobytraps and poison gas generators, as well as trying
to drive any neighbors away by poisoning their water and killing their
animals.

There are doubts as to his sanity...

Doubts? Doubts? The dude is a ****ing loon. A Walter Mitty consumed
by the Tarnsman of Gor books. A paranoid with at least 5 alter egos,
most of whom are also ****ing loons.

We are not sure if he is not GunKid or Mabu the Gagnificicent.
Shrug..but he makes a great punching bag.

Furthermore...What Collapse?

alanc dwells constantly on the idea of a coming collapse. He appears to
be one fo those people who are actually looking forward to it,
believing that the destruction of our current civilization will
give them the freedom and opportunity they don't have now. The means
by which The End Of The World As We Know It is to come about is less
important than their desire for it. Even though, in the actual event
of TEOTWAWKI, they will actually probably be the first to suffer...

FW

Alan/Mabu/GunKid will load up their Main Battle Wheelbarrows with
laser sighted Lorcin .380s, DingDongs and Twinkies, a couple dogeared
and stained copies of Hustlers Beaver Hunt Specials and shortly be run
over by a middle aged long haired Vietnam vet in a Dodge Ram pickup
Bugging Out, who will only look in the rear view mirror to see what
caused that gyser of shit and the muffled thump.

Gunner

" ..The world has gone crazy. Guess I'm showing my age...
I think it dates from when we started looking at virtues
as funny. It's embarrassing to speak of honor, integrity,
bravery, patriotism, 'doing the right thing', charity,
fairness. You have Seinfeld making cowardice an acceptable
choice; our politicians changing positions of honor with
every poll; we laugh at servicemen and patriotic fervor; we
accept corruption in our police and bias in our judges; we
kill our children, and wonder why they have no respect for
Life. We deny children their childhood and innocence- and
then we denigrate being a Man, as opposed to a 'person'. We
*assume* that anyone with a weapon will use it against his
fellowman- if only he has the chance. Nah; in our agitation
to keep the State out of the church business, we've
destroyed our value system and replaced it with *nothing*.
Turns my stomach- " Chas , rec.knives

North America After the Collapse
 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 04:52:18 GMT, Raid wrote:

Well it will be a good thing when "America Collapse"
Then you will not have a ISP to post you crap!


Sorry Bubba, but like firearms, nuclear weapons and oral sex, the
genie is out of the bottle. Even after a Collapse..the Net will be one
of the first things to become reimplimented. In one fashion or
another.

Gunner


On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 03:28:33 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 02:33:59 GMT, (Pete Cresswell) wrote:


RE/
If you HAVE to run, then you had better know your wild edible plants, of
which there are more than 1800 species in North America, because trapping
and hunting will SERIOUSLY slow you down...

Think of how old you are.

Now pick a number: the number of estimated years between you and a natural,
inevitable death from old age.

Life is sweet - albiet much too short - and either one of us could wake up dead
tomorrow - heart attack, virus, drunk driver...or just plain stupidity.


Sure.

Stop thinking about the end of the world and enjoy what you have left



I am not thinking about the end of the world. But of the end of an incredibly
destructive culture that MUST die, and soon, or there will be no life on
Earth.

Sorry buddy, reality won't go away just because you don't choose to think
about it.

What I hear you saying is: Well, there's a 99% chance of rain today, but
I am going to leave my raincoat and umbrella behind because it depresses
me to think about the rain.


If you stick your head in the sand, something nasty may very well come along
and **** you in the ass.

And you DESERVE it.

(by-the-way, I think Industrial-Capitalism STINKS and not only enjoy thinking
about another way to live, but find the subject fascinating)



AC

" ..The world has gone crazy. Guess I'm showing my age...
I think it dates from when we started looking at virtues
as funny. It's embarrassing to speak of honor, integrity,
bravery, patriotism, 'doing the right thing', charity,
fairness. You have Seinfeld making cowardice an acceptable
choice; our politicians changing positions of honor with
every poll; we laugh at servicemen and patriotic fervor; we
accept corruption in our police and bias in our judges; we
kill our children, and wonder why they have no respect for
Life. We deny children their childhood and innocence- and
then we denigrate being a Man, as opposed to a 'person'. We
*assume* that anyone with a weapon will use it against his
fellowman- if only he has the chance. Nah; in our agitation
to keep the State out of the church business, we've
destroyed our value system and replaced it with *nothing*.
Turns my stomach- " Chas , rec.knives

North America After the Collapse
 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 07:02:33 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On 18 Jan 2004 04:37:13 GMT, (Frank White)
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:28:29 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:



In North America at present, including Canada, there are about 500,000
square
miles of mountain forests that are removed from major population centers
and in a climate that is cold-temperate or better.

Assuming 300,000,000 people in the U.S. and Canada, and that 5% of those
people can make it to, or are already in, the Rockies (etc.), that gives
these
areas a post-Collapse population density of approximately 30 people per
square mile, or about 20 acres apiece, back-to-back.

(your neighbor will be able to hit your house with a thrown rock from
their
front porch)


(these areas include a lot of grasslands, too, but are predominantly
forested)


In these conditions, only a survival group that can remain inconspicuous
will
have a chance of avoiding continual battles with refugees or roving
bandits,
or continually running from them, and the only way to accomplish this is
to
have a plant-based lifestyle.



If you HAVE to run, then you had better know your wild edible plants, of
which there are more than 1800 species in North America, because trapping
and hunting will SERIOUSLY slow you down...


AC

Why would a live by the skin of your teeth existence be preferable to
staying in your own neighborhood or town and working together with your
neighbors and friends?

alanc is obsessed with the idea of running for the hills and living
off the land. In fact he's claimed that's what he and an unspecified
group have already done, setting up a defensive parameter that
includes boobytraps and poison gas generators, as well as trying
to drive any neighbors away by poisoning their water and killing their
animals.

There are doubts as to his sanity...

Doubts? Doubts? The dude is a ****ing loon. A Walter Mitty consumed
by the Tarnsman of Gor books.

Oddly enough, I'm watcing The Secret Life of Walter Mitty right now.
Hipockita, hipockita (sp?).
Sue

North America After the Collapse
 

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:31:14 -0800, Tim May
wrote:

snip

You retards need to get off the Net.

--Tim May
Ouch. That really hurt my feelings Tim. I see the humour content of
my post missed you completely or did you really think that I was
serious about the mutated neighbor?

Tim doesn't have any humor.

Talk about retards.. Kettle, meet Mr. Pot.
When I want my smart-assed replies peer reviewed I'll give you a call.

He'll show up regardless of call, unless you manage to
offend him to the point he killfiles you.

There are a lot of us in his killfile...

Perhaps you deserve killing...

Woo. That's interesting. That's what Tim says about almost
everyone else.

:(

FW

North America After the Collapse
 

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On 18 Jan 2004 04:37:13 GMT, (Frank White)
snip
Alan/Mabu/GunKid will load up their Main Battle Wheelbarrows with
laser sighted Lorcin .380s, DingDongs and Twinkies, a couple dogeared
and stained copies of Hustlers Beaver Hunt Specials and shortly be run
over by a middle aged long haired Vietnam vet in a Dodge Ram pickup
Bugging Out, who will only look in the rear view mirror to see what
caused that gyser of shit and the muffled thump.

Oh, how embarassing - we actually own a laser sighted Lorcin...hey, it was a
joke (cheapo laser sight, wouldn't mount properly, had to be cobbled on - it
just seemed right somehow...).

On the plus side, I don't eat Twinkies...



Gunner

" ..The world has gone crazy. Guess I'm showing my age...
I think it dates from when we started looking at virtues
as funny. It's embarrassing to speak of honor, integrity,
bravery, patriotism, 'doing the right thing', charity,
fairness. You have Seinfeld making cowardice an acceptable
choice; our politicians changing positions of honor with
every poll; we laugh at servicemen and patriotic fervor; we
accept corruption in our police and bias in our judges; we
kill our children, and wonder why they have no respect for
Life. We deny children their childhood and innocence- and
then we denigrate being a Man, as opposed to a 'person'. We
*assume* that anyone with a weapon will use it against his
fellowman- if only he has the chance. Nah; in our agitation
to keep the State out of the church business, we've
destroyed our value system and replaced it with *nothing*.
Turns my stomach- " Chas , rec.knives

North America After the Collapse
 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 02:34:57 -0500, "Cricket"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On 18 Jan 2004 04:37:13 GMT, (Frank White)
snip
Alan/Mabu/GunKid will load up their Main Battle Wheelbarrows with
laser sighted Lorcin .380s, DingDongs and Twinkies, a couple dogeared
and stained copies of Hustlers Beaver Hunt Specials and shortly be run
over by a middle aged long haired Vietnam vet in a Dodge Ram pickup
Bugging Out, who will only look in the rear view mirror to see what
caused that gyser of shit and the muffled thump.

Oh, how embarassing - we actually own a laser sighted Lorcin...hey, it was a
joke (cheapo laser sight, wouldn't mount properly, had to be cobbled on - it
just seemed right somehow...).

On the plus side, I don't eat Twinkies...

Well..DingDongs ARE chocolate (kind a sorta)..so they are not all
bad...G

Gunner




Gunner

" ..The world has gone crazy. Guess I'm showing my age...
I think it dates from when we started looking at virtues
as funny. It's embarrassing to speak of honor, integrity,
bravery, patriotism, 'doing the right thing', charity,
fairness. You have Seinfeld making cowardice an acceptable
choice; our politicians changing positions of honor with
every poll; we laugh at servicemen and patriotic fervor; we
accept corruption in our police and bias in our judges; we
kill our children, and wonder why they have no respect for
Life. We deny children their childhood and innocence- and
then we denigrate being a Man, as opposed to a 'person'. We
*assume* that anyone with a weapon will use it against his
fellowman- if only he has the chance. Nah; in our agitation
to keep the State out of the church business, we've
destroyed our value system and replaced it with *nothing*.
Turns my stomach- " Chas , rec.knives


" ..The world has gone crazy. Guess I'm showing my age...
I think it dates from when we started looking at virtues
as funny. It's embarrassing to speak of honor, integrity,
bravery, patriotism, 'doing the right thing', charity,
fairness. You have Seinfeld making cowardice an acceptable
choice; our politicians changing positions of honor with
every poll; we laugh at servicemen and patriotic fervor; we
accept corruption in our police and bias in our judges; we
kill our children, and wonder why they have no respect for
Life. We deny children their childhood and innocence- and
then we denigrate being a Man, as opposed to a 'person'. We
*assume* that anyone with a weapon will use it against his
fellowman- if only he has the chance. Nah; in our agitation
to keep the State out of the church business, we've
destroyed our value system and replaced it with *nothing*.
Turns my stomach- " Chas , rec.knives

North America After the Collapse
 

On 18 Jan 2004 07:25:44 GMT, (Frank White)
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:31:14 -0800, Tim May
wrote:

snip

You retards need to get off the Net.

--Tim May
Ouch. That really hurt my feelings Tim. I see the humour content of
my post missed you completely or did you really think that I was
serious about the mutated neighbor?

Tim doesn't have any humor.


He needs to go buy him an icecream bar from the corner vendor.

North America After the Collapse
 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 07:08:11 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 04:52:18 GMT, Raid wrote:

Well it will be a good thing when "America Collapse"
Then you will not have a ISP to post you crap!


Sorry Bubba, but like firearms, nuclear weapons and oral sex, the
genie is out of the bottle. Even after a Collapse..the Net will be one
of the first things to become reimplimented. In one fashion or
another.

Gunner


Who's going to restring the phone lines? Where is the juice
going to come from to run the switchers and hubs.and who is going to
do the repairs? Where are you going to get repair parts?

North America After the Collapse
 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 07:02:33 GMT, Gunner wrote:

neighbors and friends?

alanc is obsessed with the idea of running for the hills and living
off the land. In fact he's claimed that's what he and an unspecified
group have already done, setting up a defensive parameter that
includes boobytraps and poison gas generators, as well as trying

No booby-traps, per se, and no poison gas generators.

Or perhaps you'd like to post the article where I said that?

I thought not.

to drive any neighbors away by poisoning their water and killing their
animals.


Yes. Sort of.


There are doubts as to his sanity...


And no doubts about your integrity. You have none.

Doubts? Doubts? The dude is a ****ing loon. A Walter Mitty consumed
by the Tarnsman of Gor books. A paranoid with at least 5 alter egos,
most of whom are also ****ing loons.


Gosh. If you said it, it must be true.

We are not sure if he is not GunKid or Mabu the Gagnificicent.
Shrug..but he makes a great punching bag.

Except that you keep missing, of course.

The rest of this nonsense deleted unseen.

And I go back to ignoring your posts.




AC

North America After the Collapse
 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 07:02:33 GMT, Gunner wrote:

Who knows?

All I am trying to do is educate people.

I've done that. You can't remove my posts from the server or from
the archives.

All you can do is continue broadcasting your immaturity and ignorance
to the world.

There are very few people on this group that will survive more than a year
after the Collapse, and taking their advice is foolish.

Being able to shoot a gun and open cans just isn't enough.


The rest deleted unseen.

AC

North America After the Collapse
 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 13:18:37 GMT, James Mayer wrote:


On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 07:08:11 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 04:52:18 GMT, Raid wrote:

Well it will be a good thing when "America Collapse"
Then you will not have a ISP to post you crap!


Sorry Bubba, but like firearms, nuclear weapons and oral sex, the
genie is out of the bottle. Even after a Collapse..the Net will be one
of the first things to become reimplimented. In one fashion or
another.

Gunner


Who's going to restring the phone lines? Where is the juice
going to come from to run the switchers and hubs.and who is going to
do the repairs? Where are you going to get repair parts?


Exactly.

Like the rest of his little gang of fools, they just don't really believe
the system can collapse.


When it does, they will be very dangerous people during the few short weeks
or months that they manage to hang on to life.

AC

North America After the Collapse
 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 13:18:37 GMT, (James Mayer)
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 07:08:11 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 04:52:18 GMT, Raid wrote:

Well it will be a good thing when "America Collapse"
Then you will not have a ISP to post you crap!


Sorry Bubba, but like firearms, nuclear weapons and oral sex, the
genie is out of the bottle. Even after a Collapse..the Net will be one
of the first things to become reimplimented. In one fashion or
another.

Gunner


Who's going to restring the phone lines? Where is the juice
going to come from to run the switchers and hubs.and who is going to
do the repairs? Where are you going to get repair parts?

Restring lines? Is all of that wire going to go someplace? If it's
broken it can be spliced. Lots of it is buried anyway and will not be
damaged at all.
They managed to build everything the first time without any existing
infrastructure. The electricity will come from the hundreds of
existing power plants or are they going to evaporate? The repairs
will be done by the thousands of technicians that exist and work on
them today or is every single one of them going to die? The repair
parts will initially come from existing supplies and will eventually
be created new.
IF there is a collapse of this magnitude do you expect everyone to
just say "**** it! it's gone forever."? Will everyone forget how to
do the jobs they have been doing for the last 15 years of their life?
I suppose we will lose language as well and just revert to grunting at
each other? We could hit each other with sticks but that is a form of
tool and the knowledge of how to use tools must be gone or we would
have rebuilt..

kb9wfk

North America After the Collapse
 

Xref: kermit rec.gardens.edible:66913 rec.gardens:262228 misc.survivalism:514636 misc.rural:122115 rec.backcountry:177523

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 17:02:00 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 07:02:33 GMT, Gunner wrote:

Who knows?

All I am trying to do is educate people.

I've done that. You can't remove my posts from the server or from
the archives.

All you can do is continue broadcasting your immaturity and ignorance
to the world.

There are very few people on this group that will survive more than a year
after the Collapse, and taking their advice is foolish.

Being able to shoot a gun and open cans just isn't enough.


The rest deleted unseen.

AC

The rest of WHAT? Everyone just smile and nod. He must have just
smoked a fatty.

kb9wfk

North America After the Collapse
 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 17:01:59 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 07:02:33 GMT, Gunner wrote:

neighbors and friends?

alanc is obsessed with the idea of running for the hills and living
off the land. In fact he's claimed that's what he and an unspecified
group have already done, setting up a defensive parameter that
includes boobytraps and poison gas generators, as well as trying

No booby-traps, per se, and no poison gas generators.

Or perhaps you'd like to post the article where I said that?

I would but you are ignoring my posts. It is in the archives as you
say and nobody can remove it.

I thought not.

Of course you thought not. You claim to be ignoring his posts.

to drive any neighbors away by poisoning their water and killing their
animals.


Yes. Sort of.


There are doubts as to his sanity...


And no doubts about your integrity.

Exactly right. None at all.

You have none.

Doubts? Doubts? The dude is a ****ing loon. A Walter Mitty consumed
by the Tarnsman of Gor books. A paranoid with at least 5 alter egos,
most of whom are also ****ing loons.


Gosh. If you said it, it must be true.

We are not sure if he is not GunKid or Mabu the Gagnificicent.
Shrug..but he makes a great punching bag.

Except that you keep missing, of course.

You are just punch drunk and no longer feel them.

The rest of this nonsense deleted unseen.

And I go back to ignoring your posts.

We'd expect no less of you. You are frightened by him and need to
hide.

AC
kb9wfk