On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:39:59 GMT, "David Bunch" opined:

Sir, you are quite insane. And this is a legitimate question. Do you
somehow think algae will become toxic if it suddenly recieves some of the
nutrients it needs to grow? I am only looking for a technical definition
from which to set my boundries.


You got that answer. Do whatever you want.

In the desert, plants are not supposed to be growing unless they are fit for
that condition. Thus, not many lush spots in the desert. When you use
synthetic nitrogen, you kill what limited life is left in any soil. Organic
forms of nitrogen are indeed organic. I don't get your analysis of it being an
"eleament that can be found in lots of stuff..." Most plants are made of
nitrogen. Never mind.

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 19:50:43 -0800, "Starlord" opined:

Because when the soil needs more than what can be added as organic, you go with
the store bought stuff. Also, a little bit of info, nitrogen is not realy
organic at all, it's an eleament that can be found in lots of stuff, from plants
to multi-ton beams of Steel.

When I tested the Desert soil for my garden, the N level was so low as to be -0,
so I've had to use store bought stuff to build it up faster than I could have
done any other way. And it's not hurt my Iris & Canna one little bit.

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:36:51 GMT, "David Bunch" opined:

According to a few websites, even adding 10-10-10 to a compost pile is
"organic gardening", since the fertilizer is not directly added to the
plants. I'm looking more for a technical definition rather than a
philosophical one.

Point out the website. I gave you a technical answer. You didn't like it. So
you come back with your own answer and you already know what you are going to
use, so why ask?


As for algae, sunlight really isnt the limiting factor here. Its
phosphorus. Dump phosphorus into any lake, and a huge algae bloom will take
place. Thats why its not allowed to be used in detergent anymore.


Whatever you say.

David Bunch wrote:

If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae
bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be
considered "organic gardening"?



The USDA has regulations on what can and cannot be called organic.
However, the regulations apply only to farms which have gross sales over
$5000. Since this excludes most gardeners, the word organic means
whatever you want it to, no more and no less.

As far as the USDA regulations are concerned, your compost with
prohibited materials added would not be considered organic. As I recall,
in order to be (sold as) organic compost, it has to reach a temperature
of 140 F for some specified period of time (which I've forgotten) and
has to be turned 5 times in 15 days.

What will the algae bloom do to the pond inhabitants? Sounds
inconsistent with the idea of organic gardening, which considers more
than just the garden.

In the desert, plants are not supposed to be growing unless they are fit for
that condition. Thus, not many lush spots in the desert. When you use
synthetic nitrogen, you kill what limited life is left in any soil. Organic
forms of nitrogen are indeed organic. I don't get your analysis of it being an
"eleament that can be found in lots of stuff..." Most plants are made of
nitrogen. Never mind.

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 19:50:43 -0800, "Starlord" opined:

Because when the soil needs more than what can be added as organic, you go with
the store bought stuff. Also, a little bit of info, nitrogen is not realy
organic at all, it's an eleament that can be found in lots of stuff, from plants
to multi-ton beams of Steel.

When I tested the Desert soil for my garden, the N level was so low as to be -0,
so I've had to use store bought stuff to build it up faster than I could have
done any other way. And it's not hurt my Iris & Canna one little bit.

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:39:59 GMT, "David Bunch" opined:

Sir, you are quite insane. And this is a legitimate question. Do you
somehow think algae will become toxic if it suddenly recieves some of the
nutrients it needs to grow? I am only looking for a technical definition
from which to set my boundries.


You got that answer. Do whatever you want.

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:36:51 GMT, "David Bunch" opined:

According to a few websites, even adding 10-10-10 to a compost pile is
"organic gardening", since the fertilizer is not directly added to the
plants. I'm looking more for a technical definition rather than a
philosophical one.

Point out the website. I gave you a technical answer. You didn't like it. So
you come back with your own answer and you already know what you are going to
use, so why ask?


As for algae, sunlight really isnt the limiting factor here. Its
phosphorus. Dump phosphorus into any lake, and a huge algae bloom will take
place. Thats why its not allowed to be used in detergent anymore.


Whatever you say.

David Bunch wrote:

If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae
bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be
considered "organic gardening"?

It all depends on who defines the word "organic". See my
http://www.rossde.com/garden/garden_organic.html.

--

David E. Ross
http://www.rossde.com/

I use Mozilla as my Web browser because I want a browser that
complies with Web standards. See http://www.mozilla.org/.

"Judith Steinberg" wrote in message
...


Frank Logullo wrote:
"David Bunch" wrote in message
news:SWEQb.14741$U%5.95708@attbi_s03...

If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae
bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be
considered "organic gardening"?


The organic gardeners may say no, but if you use something like Chilean
salt
peter, which is a natural product, dug out of the ground, it is OK
Frank


Or straight urea, which is 100% organic.

Most urea is synthetic. To assure you get organic urea, you should put
horseshit in the pond
Frank
BTW I'm an organic chemist. That does not mean I learned chemistry without
pesticides.

"Judith Steinberg" wrote in message
...


Frank Logullo wrote:
"David Bunch" wrote in message
news:SWEQb.14741$U%5.95708@attbi_s03...

If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae
bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be
considered "organic gardening"?


The organic gardeners may say no, but if you use something like Chilean
salt
peter, which is a natural product, dug out of the ground, it is OK
Frank


Or straight urea, which is 100% organic.

Most urea is synthetic. To assure you get organic urea, you should put
horseshit in the pond
Frank
BTW I'm an organic chemist. That does not mean I learned chemistry without
pesticides.

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 01:26:11 +0000, David Bunch wrote:

If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae
bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be
considered "organic gardening"?

Does it really matter? By the time everything's been composted, you are
talking molecules.

Why pick nits?

"Judith Steinberg" wrote in message
...


Frank Logullo wrote:
"David Bunch" wrote in message
news:SWEQb.14741$U%5.95708@attbi_s03...

If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae
bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be
considered "organic gardening"?


The organic gardeners may say no, but if you use something like Chilean
salt
peter, which is a natural product, dug out of the ground, it is OK
Frank


Or straight urea, which is 100% organic.

Most urea is synthetic. To assure you get organic urea, you should put
horseshit in the pond
Frank
BTW I'm an organic chemist. That does not mean I learned chemistry without
pesticides.

"Frank Logullo" writes:
Most urea is synthetic. To assure you get organic urea, you should put
horseshit in the pond
does the horse have to have only fed on grain/hay grown organically?


--
be safe.
flip
Verso l'esterno! Verso l'esterno! Deamons di ignoranza.
Remove origin of the word spam from address to reply (leave "+")

David Bunch is most definitely a lunatic troll wasting everyone's time.

His question has been answered many times over but nothing sinks into that
thick skull of his.

He has gone way beyond beating the subject to death. The subject has been
beaten way beyond puree by now.

It doesn't matter what you say, whether you agree or disagree with his loony
notions, the idiot just wants to bitch and argue over nothing.

Screw the troll.

Let him **** in his own pool.

What he really needs is a girlfriend (or maybe in his case, a boyfriend?)

When it comes down to it, I doubt if even a dog would stick around for long
listening to that whining jerk baby with his dirty diaper all in a bunch.


animaux wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:39:59 GMT, "David Bunch"
opined:

Sir, you are quite insane. And this is a legitimate question. Do you
somehow think algae will become toxic if it suddenly recieves some of the
nutrients it needs to grow? I am only looking for a technical definition
from which to set my boundries.


You got that answer. Do whatever you want.

"David Bunch" wrote in message
news:SWEQb.14741$U%5.95708@attbi_s03...
If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae
bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be
considered "organic gardening"?

If that is your intent, why not add an organic (rather than chemical)
fertilizer to spur the bloom?

Seems to me you'd have to have a pretty large pond with a pretty significant
bloom to generate much in the way of compostables..........