We just bought a house and one of the deciding factors was the huge
Magnolia tree in the front yard. Over the last few weeks we have been
watching with much anticipation the fattening buds, waiting for them
to bloom. I am growing concerned that the tree looks wilted and
droopy (like a house plant needing watering) and there seems to be a
lot of leaves turning brown and falling off.

Is this normal? Is the tree using it energy to blossom? or should we
be concerned?

TIA,
Dawn

My experience is that Magnolias (especially the 'large-leaf" group) is tough
to transplant well in the northeast. I have had large M. ashei, M.
macrophylla, M. fraseri all stall once they have been dug. The stall
sometimes lasted for 4+ years.

As for the wilting, this is to be expected...but managed. Do not let the
tree stress for adequate moisture. I would use a soil-moisture measuring
device such as a tensiometer to determine when to actually water.

If soil moisture is OK, you may to try an overheard mist system to reduce
the rate of evaporation from the foliage. During the hot part of the day,
mist the foliage for 15 min. intervals a few times per day. The idea is to
keep the tree from reaching internal wilting point until it has time to grow
new roots to provide it with soil moisture.

Good luck.

--
Mike LaMana, MS
Heartwood Consulting Services, LLC
Toms River, NJ
www.HeartwoodConsulting.net



"Dawn" wrote in message
om...
We just bought a house and one of the deciding factors was the huge
Magnolia tree in the front yard. Over the last few weeks we have been
watching with much anticipation the fattening buds, waiting for them
to bloom. I am growing concerned that the tree looks wilted and
droopy (like a house plant needing watering) and there seems to be a
lot of leaves turning brown and falling off.

Is this normal? Is the tree using it energy to blossom? or should we
be concerned?

TIA,
Dawn

On Mon, 10 May 2004 17:01:51 -0400, "Mike LaMana"
fake@MikeatHeartwoodConsultingdotnet wrote:

My experience is that Magnolias (especially the 'large-leaf" group) is tough
to transplant well in the northeast. I have had large M. ashei, M.
macrophylla, M. fraseri all stall once they have been dug. The stall
sometimes lasted for 4+ years.

As for the wilting, this is to be expected...but managed. Do not let the
tree stress for adequate moisture. I would use a soil-moisture measuring
device such as a tensiometer to determine when to actually water.

If soil moisture is OK, you may to try an overheard mist system to reduce
the rate of evaporation from the foliage. During the hot part of the day,
mist the foliage for 15 min. intervals a few times per day. The idea is to
keep the tree from reaching internal wilting point until it has time to grow
new roots to provide it with soil moisture.

Container-grown magnolias also tend to suffer from girdling roots.
When roots reach the side of the pot, they turn and circle around the
outside until they completely surround the trunk and root flares.
When the base of the tree gets bigger, these circling roots strangle
the tree. If the soil moisture seems adequate, you need to examine
the root crown.

The safest and fastest way to do this is with an air spade, air knife.
or similar tool. A large compressor pumps air at high speed which
blasts the soil away from the roots with little damage (call around to
arborists in your area to see if anyone uses this method).
Pressurized water can also work, but it tends to be much slower
because you have to stop and wait for the water to soak in/evaporate.
If neither of these appeals, get a hand trowel and screwdriver.
Carefully scrape/dig away the soil (you will probably scrape and nick
roots, but try to minimize this).

Once you can see the root system, identify the major root flares where
they begin at the base of the trunk. If they are below grade level,
you have found a large part of your problem. Leave a wide, shallow
bowl around the trunk to compensate for the deep planting. Now that
you have identified the major roots, look for any other roots that
cross over (girdle) them. Cut the girdlers out. Be merciless. If
the flare or trunk has started to grow around them, it will be harder
to get them out. Do it carefully to minimize damage to the root
crown. Cutting along the length of the offending root can be helpful
(with the UNDERSIDE of a chainsaw tip {BE VERY CAREFUL IF YOU TRY THIS
TO AVOID KICKBACK} or a hammer and chisel {slower but safer}), but it
is tricky. After you start the longitudinal cut, leave it alone
awhile and see if it starts to shrink away from the crown. As the
homeowner, you have the luxury of doing this a little at a time over
several days, if necessary. Take advantage of this--you can do a lot
of damage in a short time if you get too carried away. You may be
better off hiring a professional arborist who is familiar with these
methods. You can search for a certified arborist in your area at
www.isa-arbor.com

If the tree was not too deep to begin with, replace soil and mulch the
area to a depth of 3" over as wide an area as you are willing. Be
careful not to heap the mulch against the trunk--you should still be
able to see the major flares above the surface.

good luck,

Keith Babberney
ISA Certified Arborist
For more info about the International Society of Arboriculture, please visit http://www.isa-arbor.com/home.asp.
For consumer info about tree care, visit http://www.treesaregood.com/

Good post. I didn't realize the tree described was long extant on the
property - I assumed it was new. Sounds like an accumulated root stress - if
the load of flower buds was huge, that in itself is good indicator of stress
and consistent with a girdling root.

Need more details on where the tree is growing, how big, history of
construction and trenching etc...

--
Mike LaMana, MS
Heartwood Consulting Services, LLC
Toms River, NJ
www.HeartwoodConsulting.net



"Babberney" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 May 2004 17:01:51 -0400, "Mike LaMana"
fake@MikeatHeartwoodConsultingdotnet wrote:

My experience is that Magnolias (especially the 'large-leaf" group) is
tough
to transplant well in the northeast. I have had large M. ashei, M.
macrophylla, M. fraseri all stall once they have been dug. The stall
sometimes lasted for 4+ years.

As for the wilting, this is to be expected...but managed. Do not let the
tree stress for adequate moisture. I would use a soil-moisture measuring
device such as a tensiometer to determine when to actually water.

If soil moisture is OK, you may to try an overheard mist system to reduce
the rate of evaporation from the foliage. During the hot part of the day,
mist the foliage for 15 min. intervals a few times per day. The idea is
to
keep the tree from reaching internal wilting point until it has time to
grow
new roots to provide it with soil moisture.

Container-grown magnolias also tend to suffer from girdling roots.
When roots reach the side of the pot, they turn and circle around the
outside until they completely surround the trunk and root flares.
When the base of the tree gets bigger, these circling roots strangle
the tree. If the soil moisture seems adequate, you need to examine
the root crown.

The safest and fastest way to do this is with an air spade, air knife.
or similar tool. A large compressor pumps air at high speed which
blasts the soil away from the roots with little damage (call around to
arborists in your area to see if anyone uses this method).
Pressurized water can also work, but it tends to be much slower
because you have to stop and wait for the water to soak in/evaporate.
If neither of these appeals, get a hand trowel and screwdriver.
Carefully scrape/dig away the soil (you will probably scrape and nick
roots, but try to minimize this).

Once you can see the root system, identify the major root flares where
they begin at the base of the trunk. If they are below grade level,
you have found a large part of your problem. Leave a wide, shallow
bowl around the trunk to compensate for the deep planting. Now that
you have identified the major roots, look for any other roots that
cross over (girdle) them. Cut the girdlers out. Be merciless. If
the flare or trunk has started to grow around them, it will be harder
to get them out. Do it carefully to minimize damage to the root
crown. Cutting along the length of the offending root can be helpful
(with the UNDERSIDE of a chainsaw tip {BE VERY CAREFUL IF YOU TRY THIS
TO AVOID KICKBACK} or a hammer and chisel {slower but safer}), but it
is tricky. After you start the longitudinal cut, leave it alone
awhile and see if it starts to shrink away from the crown. As the
homeowner, you have the luxury of doing this a little at a time over
several days, if necessary. Take advantage of this--you can do a lot
of damage in a short time if you get too carried away. You may be
better off hiring a professional arborist who is familiar with these
methods. You can search for a certified arborist in your area at
www.isa-arbor.com

If the tree was not too deep to begin with, replace soil and mulch the
area to a depth of 3" over as wide an area as you are willing. Be
careful not to heap the mulch against the trunk--you should still be
able to see the major flares above the surface.

good luck,

Keith Babberney
ISA Certified Arborist
For more info about the International Society of Arboriculture, please
visit http://www.isa-arbor.com/home.asp.
For consumer info about tree care, visit http://www.treesaregood.com/

The tree is probably 30-40 feet tall in our front yard, the house was
built in 1969 and the tree may be from that time period. The street
is only about 10 feet away. The other thing I noticed is the previous
owner had used "Root Be Gone" in the sewer line. There is another
smaller magnolia on the street that looks just as wilted.

"Mike LaMana" fake@MikeatHeartwoodConsultingdotnet wrote in message ...
Good post. I didn't realize the tree described was long extant on the
property - I assumed it was new. Sounds like an accumulated root stress - if
the load of flower buds was huge, that in itself is good indicator of stress
and consistent with a girdling root.

Need more details on where the tree is growing, how big, history of
construction and trenching etc...

--
Mike LaMana, MS
Heartwood Consulting Services, LLC
Toms River, NJ
www.HeartwoodConsulting.net



"Babberney" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 May 2004 17:01:51 -0400, "Mike LaMana"
fake@MikeatHeartwoodConsultingdotnet wrote:

My experience is that Magnolias (especially the 'large-leaf" group) is
tough
to transplant well in the northeast. I have had large M. ashei, M.
macrophylla, M. fraseri all stall once they have been dug. The stall
sometimes lasted for 4+ years.

As for the wilting, this is to be expected...but managed. Do not let the
tree stress for adequate moisture. I would use a soil-moisture measuring
device such as a tensiometer to determine when to actually water.

If soil moisture is OK, you may to try an overheard mist system to reduce
the rate of evaporation from the foliage. During the hot part of the day,
mist the foliage for 15 min. intervals a few times per day. The idea is
to
keep the tree from reaching internal wilting point until it has time to
grow
new roots to provide it with soil moisture.

Container-grown magnolias also tend to suffer from girdling roots.
When roots reach the side of the pot, they turn and circle around the
outside until they completely surround the trunk and root flares.
When the base of the tree gets bigger, these circling roots strangle
the tree. If the soil moisture seems adequate, you need to examine
the root crown.

The safest and fastest way to do this is with an air spade, air knife.
or similar tool. A large compressor pumps air at high speed which
blasts the soil away from the roots with little damage (call around to
arborists in your area to see if anyone uses this method).
Pressurized water can also work, but it tends to be much slower
because you have to stop and wait for the water to soak in/evaporate.
If neither of these appeals, get a hand trowel and screwdriver.
Carefully scrape/dig away the soil (you will probably scrape and nick
roots, but try to minimize this).

Once you can see the root system, identify the major root flares where
they begin at the base of the trunk. If they are below grade level,
you have found a large part of your problem. Leave a wide, shallow
bowl around the trunk to compensate for the deep planting. Now that
you have identified the major roots, look for any other roots that
cross over (girdle) them. Cut the girdlers out. Be merciless. If
the flare or trunk has started to grow around them, it will be harder
to get them out. Do it carefully to minimize damage to the root
crown. Cutting along the length of the offending root can be helpful
(with the UNDERSIDE of a chainsaw tip {BE VERY CAREFUL IF YOU TRY THIS
TO AVOID KICKBACK} or a hammer and chisel {slower but safer}), but it
is tricky. After you start the longitudinal cut, leave it alone
awhile and see if it starts to shrink away from the crown. As the
homeowner, you have the luxury of doing this a little at a time over
several days, if necessary. Take advantage of this--you can do a lot
of damage in a short time if you get too carried away. You may be
better off hiring a professional arborist who is familiar with these
methods. You can search for a certified arborist in your area at
www.isa-arbor.com

If the tree was not too deep to begin with, replace soil and mulch the
area to a depth of 3" over as wide an area as you are willing. Be
careful not to heap the mulch against the trunk--you should still be
able to see the major flares above the surface.

good luck,

Keith Babberney
ISA Certified Arborist
For more info about the International Society of Arboriculture, please
visit http://www.isa-arbor.com/home.asp.
For consumer info about tree care, visit http://www.treesaregood.com/