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#31
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Use Weeds Killer to Keep Weeds Out of My Flower Garden?
"Jay Chan" wrote in message om... If I were you, I would pull out the landscape fabric, use wet newspaper for weed suppression, and follow the lazy gardeners guide to........ lazy gardening. The landscape fabric is already there. I installed it a couple years ago. I would have to remove the landscape fabric and replace it with newspaper if I followed your advice. That would be more work for me not less. Actually, I don't quite understand why we would use newspaper instead of landscape fabric. The only benefit that I can see of using newspapers is that they are free. But if we go through the trouble of putting newspapers to block weeds, we "may" be better off going all the way and install landscape fabric instead. The landscape fabric should block weeds better than newspaper, right? What's the reason of using newspaper instead of landscape fabrics anyway? I am not trying to be negative. I just don't understand. Well, Wong stated very good reasons and I agree with them, so I won't repeat them here. I went to totally organic, lasagna gardening two years ago, and my flower beds have never been better and have few weeds. It's all in feeding the soil and feeding the earthworms. Plastic landscape fabric defeats all those good things from happening. And, I do much less work, since I just throw a new layer of mulch on top and don't even work it in, just like Nature does. This retains the basic soil structure and doesn't disturb all the biological organisms. |
#32
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Use Weeds Killer to Keep Weeds Out of My Flower Garden?
"nswong" wrote in message ... "Jay Chan" wrote in message om... I am not trying to be negative. I just don't understand. I'm outstanding with my job, so sometime when I asked a question, people tend to think I'm "testing" them. The fact is, I really don't know or just don't understand. :-( Your words touching me. g So, I will try my best to reply you. ;-) Actually, I don't quite understand why we would use newspaper instead of landscape fabric. The only benefit that I can see of using newspapers is that they are free. But if we go through the trouble of putting newspapers to block weeds, we "may" be better off going all the way and install landscape fabric instead. The landscape fabric should block weeds better than newspaper, right? What's the reason of using newspaper instead of landscape fabrics anyway? After some thinking, I think comparing two may make it easier to understand. Newspapers will decompose and become soil amendment. Landscape fabric will not. Newspapers will not block nightcrawler(earthworm) from pulling plant debris to their tunnel as their food. Landscape fabric will, I don't think you will find much earthworm under the landscape fabric. Newspapers will not block air and water to the soil, since they decompose quickly. Landscape fabric may, after sometime the holes may blocked by roots. Newspapers: For adding soil amendment(carbon/organic matter), just spread it on top of organic mulch(newspaper/manure/leaf...), eventurely it will find it way to soil by critters. Landscape fabric: Had to put it under the landscape fabric, or else only nutrient will pass through the landscape fabric in liquid form, but not much of organic matter. Newspapers: When weeds find the way through the old newspaper/mulch, just put new newspaper/mulch on top of weeds. Done! Landscape fabric: Do you ever think of putting new landscape fabric on top of old landscape fabric? ;-) Newspapers: Never need to replace, just adding new one. Landscape fabric: It's a nightmare to replace a landscape fabric that have plant root grow into it. Will I be able to cover a large area (such as 10-ft x 6-ft) Using a sickle to cut what(weeds) above the mulch, leave it there, add some new mulch. I can cover 50-ft x 5-ft within one hour, and it can last for two months. Don't afraid of walking on the mulch, this will not really compact the soil, walk on bare soil are another story. Thanks for the excellent analysis. I couldn't have said it better myself. |
#33
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Use Weeds Killer to Keep Weeds Out of My Flower Garden?
wouldn't newspaper negate "organic".... ?
Unless you get a newspaper printed with organic ink... : ) -j "nswong" wrote in message ... "Jay Chan" wrote in message om... I am not trying to be negative. I just don't understand. I'm outstanding with my job, so sometime when I asked a question, people tend to think I'm "testing" them. The fact is, I really don't know or just don't understand. :-( Your words touching me. g So, I will try my best to reply you. ;-) Actually, I don't quite understand why we would use newspaper instead of landscape fabric. The only benefit that I can see of using newspapers is that they are free. But if we go through the trouble of putting newspapers to block weeds, we "may" be better off going all the way and install landscape fabric instead. The landscape fabric should block weeds better than newspaper, right? What's the reason of using newspaper instead of landscape fabrics anyway? After some thinking, I think comparing two may make it easier to understand. Newspapers will decompose and become soil amendment. Landscape fabric will not. Newspapers will not block nightcrawler(earthworm) from pulling plant debris to their tunnel as their food. Landscape fabric will, I don't think you will find much earthworm under the landscape fabric. Newspapers will not block air and water to the soil, since they decompose quickly. Landscape fabric may, after sometime the holes may blocked by roots. Newspapers: For adding soil amendment(carbon/organic matter), just spread it on top of organic mulch(newspaper/manure/leaf...), eventurely it will find it way to soil by critters. Landscape fabric: Had to put it under the landscape fabric, or else only nutrient will pass through the landscape fabric in liquid form, but not much of organic matter. Newspapers: When weeds find the way through the old newspaper/mulch, just put new newspaper/mulch on top of weeds. Done! Landscape fabric: Do you ever think of putting new landscape fabric on top of old landscape fabric? ;-) Newspapers: Never need to replace, just adding new one. Landscape fabric: It's a nightmare to replace a landscape fabric that have plant root grow into it. Will I be able to cover a large area (such as 10-ft x 6-ft) Using a sickle to cut what(weeds) above the mulch, leave it there, add some new mulch. I can cover 50-ft x 5-ft within one hour, and it can last for two months. Don't afraid of walking on the mulch, this will not really compact the soil, walk on bare soil are another story. HTH, Wong -- Latitude: 06.10N Longitude: 102.17E Altitude: 5m |
#34
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Use Weeds Killer to Keep Weeds Out of My Flower Garden?
Almost all newspaper in this country is printed with soy based ink.
Personally, I'm not crazy about the newspaper idea, but you could do much worse things to yourself than use it as mulch. "jay" wrote in message ... wouldn't newspaper negate "organic".... ? Unless you get a newspaper printed with organic ink... : ) -j "nswong" wrote in message ... "Jay Chan" wrote in message om... I am not trying to be negative. I just don't understand. I'm outstanding with my job, so sometime when I asked a question, people tend to think I'm "testing" them. The fact is, I really don't know or just don't understand. :-( Your words touching me. g So, I will try my best to reply you. ;-) Actually, I don't quite understand why we would use newspaper instead of landscape fabric. The only benefit that I can see of using newspapers is that they are free. But if we go through the trouble of putting newspapers to block weeds, we "may" be better off going all the way and install landscape fabric instead. The landscape fabric should block weeds better than newspaper, right? What's the reason of using newspaper instead of landscape fabrics anyway? After some thinking, I think comparing two may make it easier to understand. Newspapers will decompose and become soil amendment. Landscape fabric will not. Newspapers will not block nightcrawler(earthworm) from pulling plant debris to their tunnel as their food. Landscape fabric will, I don't think you will find much earthworm under the landscape fabric. Newspapers will not block air and water to the soil, since they decompose quickly. Landscape fabric may, after sometime the holes may blocked by roots. Newspapers: For adding soil amendment(carbon/organic matter), just spread it on top of organic mulch(newspaper/manure/leaf...), eventurely it will find it way to soil by critters. Landscape fabric: Had to put it under the landscape fabric, or else only nutrient will pass through the landscape fabric in liquid form, but not much of organic matter. Newspapers: When weeds find the way through the old newspaper/mulch, just put new newspaper/mulch on top of weeds. Done! Landscape fabric: Do you ever think of putting new landscape fabric on top of old landscape fabric? ;-) Newspapers: Never need to replace, just adding new one. Landscape fabric: It's a nightmare to replace a landscape fabric that have plant root grow into it. Will I be able to cover a large area (such as 10-ft x 6-ft) Using a sickle to cut what(weeds) above the mulch, leave it there, add some new mulch. I can cover 50-ft x 5-ft within one hour, and it can last for two months. Don't afraid of walking on the mulch, this will not really compact the soil, walk on bare soil are another story. HTH, Wong -- Latitude: 06.10N Longitude: 102.17E Altitude: 5m |
#35
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Use Weeds Killer to Keep Weeds Out of My Flower Garden?
"cat daddy" wrote in message
... Thanks for the excellent analysis. I couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks for your compliment. :-) Cheers, Wong -- Latitude: 06.10N Longitude: 102.17E Altitude: 5m |
#36
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Use Weeds Killer to Keep Weeds Out of My Flower Garden?
"jay" wrote in message
... wouldn't newspaper negate "organic".... ? Unless you get a newspaper printed with organic ink... : ) Nowaday, most ink use for newspaper are soy based. :-) Look at the Google search result below. At my impression, for weeds management, mulch are mostly relate to no-till, organic are heavy tillage with machinary. But there is something call organic no-till, that is relied on heavy/deep mulch. But I may be wrong. g Regards, Wong -- Latitude: 06.10N Longitude: 102.17E Altitude: 5m Google Search: mulch newspaper soy Web Images Groups News more » Advanced Search Preferences Search: the webpages from Singapore Web Results 1 - 10 of about 592 for mulch newspaper soy. (0.13 seconds) Newspapers as mulch material .... June 14, 1998. Editors note: I've asked every newspaper I ever used as mulch what they used as ink and they all said soy based. ... supak.com/mort/newspapers.htm - 13k - Cached - Similar pages Gardening - Five Must-Have Ingredients for the Organic Gardener's ... .... most newspapers are now printed with soy-based inks ... use this method is to place the newspaper or cardboard ... springtime, the weeds are dead, the mulch has degraded ... www.pioneerthinking.com/tv-organictoolkit2.html - 30k - Cached - Similar pages Good Enough to Eat: Using paper as mulch is colored by several ... .... The PI uses soy-based colored inks; you can call ... Typically, they're not printed by the newspaper, and their ... shredded office paper or newsprint work as a mulch? .... seattlepi.nwsource.com/ nwgardens/163035_goodtoeat04.html - 21k - Cached - Similar pages Marvelous Mulches | NRCS .... organisms. Straw, shredded newspaper (soy-based ink only), and grass clippings are popular mulches that decompose easily. Popular ... www.nrcs.usda.gov/feature/backyard/mrvmulch.html - 12k - Cached - Similar pages Newspaper Mulch/add nitrogen? . ... .... I'd like to mention soy-ink newspaper in an article I'm writing about mulch and weed control, but won't be able to if I can't address the issue of whether ... www.ibiblio.org/rge/archive/970828_2970.html - 4k - Cached - Similar pages newspaper mulch ... The use of newspaper as a mulch may or may not be "organic" because ... Most black ink used in most newspaper is soy based which would probably be OK .... www.ibiblio.org/rge/archive/980523_9875.html - 4k - Cached - Similar pages [ More results from www.ibiblio.org ] The New Homemaker: Merits of Mulching .... kind of ink they use. Soy based newspaper inks are nontoxic, and fine to use for mulching. Because newspaper by itself is light ... www.newhomemaker.com/hands/garden/mulch.html - 23k - Cached - Similar pages Links to General Emergency Preparedness Information presented by ... .... herb + More cake-in-a-jar recipes + Newspaper Logs + Oil ... y2k phone tip + Potatoes in the mulch + Smells in ... soya grits + Solar water distilling + Soy cakes + Soy ... www.instantknowledgenews.com/P134.HTM - 78k - Cached - Similar pages How do you recycle newspaper .... With the advent of soy and other natural inks, papers can be utilized for .... Another way to recycle newspapers is in the garden, using the newspaper as mulch. ... utut.essortment.com/newspaperrecycl_piz.htm - 5k - Cached - Similar pages The Value of Mulching Plants .... I would like this to be used. Are you interested in this? "Dear student, I do not use newspaper mulch unless the ink is soy ink and safe. ... http://www.organic-growers.com/forum...Question34.htm - 5k - Cached - Similar pages Result Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next Search within results | Language Tools | Search Tips | Dissatisfied? Help us improve Google Home - Advertising Programs - Business Solutions - About ©2004 Google |
#37
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Use Weeds Killer to Keep Weeds Out of My Flower Garden?
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
news Personally, I'm not crazy about the newspaper idea, but you could do much worse things to yourself than use it as mulch. I never try newspaper, but from what I read, I believe it's good for organic no-till home gardenning. Old newspaper are available to nearly each home, using as a mulch are another choice from recycle, and far better than go to landfill. I don't using it because I'm going to large scale and sustainable, and will try to avoid any external input. Instead of buying some old newspaper, I prefer use plant debris from my land as mulch. Regards, Wong -- Latitude: 06.10N Longitude: 102.17E Altitude: 5m |
#38
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Use Weeds Killer to Keep Weeds Out of My Flower Garden?
Xref: kermit rec.gardens:284943
"nswong" wrote in : Newspapers will decompose and become soil amendment. Landscape fabric will not. Newspapers are primarly carbon. According to one source[1] 'paper' (not necessarily newspaper) contains 150-200:1 C/N, compared to sawdust at 100-500:1. Adding carbon will quite possibly detract from the amount of N available to a plant. Adding N to compensate will degrade the weed blocking utility of the newspaper as decomposition accelerates. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume carbon is of limited value as a nutrient amendment, as plants (primarily?) obtain carbon from atmospheric carbon dioxide during photosynthesis. At any rate, plants do *excrete* carbon from their roots after periods of elevated carbon dioxide[2]. However, I'll concede that the newspaper and newspaper debris may have indirect and significant benefits (functioning similarly to deciduous leaf litter) in providing habitat and food for beneficial insects and microbes and enhancing soil structure. While not directly contributing materiel, it is possible that landscape fabric made of polyester (and perhaps also polypropylene) can fixate minor amounts of atmospheric nitrogen via wind action and electrostatic effect[3]. Yes, newspapers need to be replaced often compared to landscape fabric. To me, this is not an advantage in permanent or semi-permanent installations. [1] http://ianrpubs.unl.edu/horticulture/g810.htm "Table I. Carbon/Nitrogen Ratios of Some Common Organic Materials" [2] http://www.co2science.org/subject/r/summaries/roots.htm [3] http://www.ce-mag.com/archive/02/Spring/chubb.html "Findings" Newspapers will not block nightcrawler(earthworm) from pulling plant debris to their tunnel as their food. Landscape fabric will, I don't think you will find much earthworm under the landscape fabric. Unless nightcrawlers will chew a hole through newspaper to open their covered burrow (quite possibly true), unbroken newspaper is as much a barrier as landscape fabric. But assuming a population rate of 1-7 worms per square meter[4] there should be sufficient openings in a typical fabric installation such that the population is not impacted significantly (assuming there is no reason why they would not choose to use an available opening). Shallow burrowing earthworms do not share nightcrawler feeding habit, but may exit their wandering burrows during extensive rain[5]. [4] http://www.swcs.org/t_pubs_journal_2...acts_water.htm [5] http://www.ces.purdue.edu/extmedia/AY/AY-279.html Newspapers will not block air and water to the soil, since they decompose quickly. Landscape fabric may, after sometime the holes may blocked by roots. Newspapers will block water to the soil or at the minimum cause pooling until drainage hole(s) are formed, which will not necessarily be uniformly distributed. Landscape fabric is semi-porous or porous to both air and water, as are roots. The mulch is more likely to block water than the fabric. Newspapers: For adding soil amendment(carbon/organic matter), just spread it on top of organic mulch(newspaper/manure/leaf...), eventurely it will find it way to soil by critters. Landscape fabric: Had to put it under the landscape fabric, or else only nutrient will pass through the landscape fabric in liquid form, but not much of organic matter. Correct, although the fabric will not necessarily pass the suspended nutrients, depending on the size of the pores in the fabric. Newspapers: When weeds find the way through the old newspaper/mulch, just put new newspaper/mulch on top of weeds. Done! Landscape fabric: Do you ever think of putting new landscape fabric on top of old landscape fabric? ;-) Weeds other than certain monocotyledons will not find their way through landscape fabric from below. If a plants attempts to colonize the top of the fabric, it is easily picked off. Done! No need to dig or look for a newspaper stand. Landscape fabric is not overlayed because it is not necessary. However, if you have made a hole in the fabric that you do not want, it can be repaired by simply putting a new piece on top (or tucked below the existing fabric). Newspapers: Never need to replace, just adding new one. Landscape fabric: It's a nightmare to replace a landscape fabric that have plant root grow into it. Landscape fabric: Never need to replace. Period. Okay, not in 5-15 years at least. Landscape fabric can become embeded with roots attempting to penetrate from below, but the removal of such fabric is of minor difficulty. Removing stripable wallpaper takes more effort. Will I be able to cover a large area (such as 10-ft x 6-ft) Using a sickle to cut what(weeds) above the mulch, leave it there, add some new mulch. I can cover 50-ft x 5-ft within one hour, and it can last for two months. Don't afraid of walking on the mulch, this will not really compact the soil, walk on bare soil are another story. Landscape fabric is a long term installation and will take more time for planning and preparation. The actual installation is simple. |
#39
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Use Weeds Killer to Keep Weeds Out of My Flower Garden?
Hi Salty Thumb,
I start learnning agriculture by year 2001, that is after I went back to my hometown and deal with my land. In my learnning progress, I do read a lot. Most of the articles I read are contrary with other articles. And it's hard to test it up who are correct. I do read before from some articles that talk about the views bring up by you. But for going to sustainable and without bring in external input(landscape fabric), I tend to remember those comment that say bad words to landscape fabric. g I'm not reach the level to able to tell which one are correct by now, but will grad to find it out if it does not cost too much of effort. Since I will not going to use landscape fabric, if you can share your personal experience with me(not those you read from), I'm grateful to this. :-) I'm going off to my land now, will reply you when I'm back. Cheers, Wong -- Latitude: 06.10N Longitude: 102.17E Altitude: 5m "Salty Thumb" wrote in message ... "nswong" wrote in : Newspapers will decompose and become soil amendment. Landscape fabric will not. Newspapers are primarly carbon. According to one source[1] 'paper' (not necessarily newspaper) contains 150-200:1 C/N, compared to sawdust at 100-500:1. Adding carbon will quite possibly detract from the amount of N available to a plant. Adding N to compensate will degrade the weed blocking utility of the newspaper as decomposition accelerates. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume carbon is of limited value as a nutrient amendment, as plants (primarily?) obtain carbon from atmospheric carbon dioxide during photosynthesis. At any rate, plants do *excrete* carbon from their roots after periods of elevated carbon dioxide[2]. However, I'll concede that the newspaper and newspaper debris may have indirect and significant benefits (functioning similarly to deciduous leaf litter) in providing habitat and food for beneficial insects and microbes and enhancing soil structure. While not directly contributing materiel, it is possible that landscape fabric made of polyester (and perhaps also polypropylene) can fixate minor amounts of atmospheric nitrogen via wind action and electrostatic effect[3]. Yes, newspapers need to be replaced often compared to landscape fabric. To me, this is not an advantage in permanent or semi-permanent installations. [1] http://ianrpubs.unl.edu/horticulture/g810.htm "Table I. Carbon/Nitrogen Ratios of Some Common Organic Materials" [2] http://www.co2science.org/subject/r/summaries/roots.htm [3] http://www.ce-mag.com/archive/02/Spring/chubb.html "Findings" Newspapers will not block nightcrawler(earthworm) from pulling plant debris to their tunnel as their food. Landscape fabric will, I don't think you will find much earthworm under the landscape fabric. Unless nightcrawlers will chew a hole through newspaper to open their covered burrow (quite possibly true), unbroken newspaper is as much a barrier as landscape fabric. But assuming a population rate of 1-7 worms per square meter[4] there should be sufficient openings in a typical fabric installation such that the population is not impacted significantly (assuming there is no reason why they would not choose to use an available opening). Shallow burrowing earthworms do not share nightcrawler feeding habit, but may exit their wandering burrows during extensive rain[5]. [4] http://www.swcs.org/t_pubs_journal_2...acts_water.htm [5] http://www.ces.purdue.edu/extmedia/AY/AY-279.html Newspapers will not block air and water to the soil, since they decompose quickly. Landscape fabric may, after sometime the holes may blocked by roots. Newspapers will block water to the soil or at the minimum cause pooling until drainage hole(s) are formed, which will not necessarily be uniformly distributed. Landscape fabric is semi-porous or porous to both air and water, as are roots. The mulch is more likely to block water than the fabric. Newspapers: For adding soil amendment(carbon/organic matter), just spread it on top of organic mulch(newspaper/manure/leaf...), eventurely it will find it way to soil by critters. Landscape fabric: Had to put it under the landscape fabric, or else only nutrient will pass through the landscape fabric in liquid form, but not much of organic matter. Correct, although the fabric will not necessarily pass the suspended nutrients, depending on the size of the pores in the fabric. Newspapers: When weeds find the way through the old newspaper/mulch, just put new newspaper/mulch on top of weeds. Done! Landscape fabric: Do you ever think of putting new landscape fabric on top of old landscape fabric? ;-) Weeds other than certain monocotyledons will not find their way through landscape fabric from below. If a plants attempts to colonize the top of the fabric, it is easily picked off. Done! No need to dig or look for a newspaper stand. Landscape fabric is not overlayed because it is not necessary. However, if you have made a hole in the fabric that you do not want, it can be repaired by simply putting a new piece on top (or tucked below the existing fabric). Newspapers: Never need to replace, just adding new one. Landscape fabric: It's a nightmare to replace a landscape fabric that have plant root grow into it. Landscape fabric: Never need to replace. Period. Okay, not in 5-15 years at least. Landscape fabric can become embeded with roots attempting to penetrate from below, but the removal of such fabric is of minor difficulty. Removing stripable wallpaper takes more effort. Will I be able to cover a large area (such as 10-ft x 6-ft) Using a sickle to cut what(weeds) above the mulch, leave it there, add some new mulch. I can cover 50-ft x 5-ft within one hour, and it can last for two months. Don't afraid of walking on the mulch, this will not really compact the soil, walk on bare soil are another story. Landscape fabric is a long term installation and will take more time for planning and preparation. The actual installation is simple. |
#40
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Use Weeds Killer to Keep Weeds Out of My Flower Garden?
Hi Salty Thumb,
After the second pass read though your message, I'm afraid that I can only reply you in very short form. Due to my bad English, I had problem in spelling and phasing my words, it do take great effort for me to write in English. Sorry about that. :-( "Salty Thumb" wrote in message ... "nswong" wrote in : Newspapers will decompose and become soil amendment. Landscape fabric will not. Newspapers are primarly carbon. According to one source[1] 'paper' (not necessarily newspaper) contains 150-200:1 C/N, compared to sawdust at 100-500:1. Adding carbon will quite possibly detract from the amount of N available to a plant. Adding N to compensate will degrade the weed blocking utility of the newspaper as decomposition accelerates. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume carbon is of limited value as a nutrient amendment, as plants (primarily?) obtain carbon from atmospheric carbon dioxide during photosynthesis. At any rate, plants do *excrete* carbon from their roots after periods of elevated carbon dioxide[2]. However, I'll concede that the newspaper and newspaper debris may have indirect and significant benefits (functioning similarly to deciduous leaf litter) in providing habitat and food for beneficial insects and microbes and enhancing soil structure. While not directly contributing materiel, it is possible that landscape fabric made of polyester (and perhaps also polypropylene) can fixate minor amounts of atmospheric nitrogen via wind action and electrostatic effect[3]. Yes, newspapers need to be replaced often compared to landscape fabric. To me, this is not an advantage in permanent or semi-permanent installations. [1] http://ianrpubs.unl.edu/horticulture/g810.htm "Table I. Carbon/Nitrogen Ratios of Some Common Organic Materials" [2] http://www.co2science.org/subject/r/summaries/roots.htm [3] http://www.ce-mag.com/archive/02/Spring/chubb.html "Findings" Adding carbon will quite possibly detract from the amount of N available to a plant. . It depend on the carbon are in what form. If it's sugar or starch, it do. If it's lignin or cellulose, the effect should be unnoticeable. Newspaper are compose mostly by cellulose. Adding N to compensate will degrade the weed blocking utility of the newspaper as decomposition accelerates Adding N will not always speed up the decompostion. It really depend on situation. Mulch supress weeds not just because the physical blocking ability, it can also leach out some chemical harm weeds. Critters in mulch will also help to supress weeds. But to me, I will never add N to the mulch Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume carbon is of limited value as a nutrient amendment, as plants (primarily?) obtain carbon from atmospheric carbon dioxide during photosynthesis. At any rate, plants do *excrete* carbon from their roots after periods of elevated carbon dioxide[2]. However, I'll concede that the newspaper and newspaper debris may have indirect and significant benefits (functioning similarly to deciduous leaf litter) in providing habitat and food for beneficial insects and microbes and enhancing soil structure. Yes, here the soil amendment I'm refer to improve soil structure. While not directly contributing materiel, it is possible that landscape fabric made of polyester (and perhaps also polypropylene) can fixate minor amounts of atmospheric nitrogen via wind action and electrostatic effect[3]. I believe N fixed by bacterial using carbon as energy in orgainc mulch will do a better job. Yes, newspapers need to be replaced often compared to landscape fabric. To me, this is not an advantage in permanent or semi-permanent installations. For this I do facing problem to explain my view. In bussiness, we talk about total cost of ownership. In here we talk about in the total life span of the product, how much cost involve and how much the return get. For this, I'm not know enough to provide a view. Sorry about that. [1] http://ianrpubs.unl.edu/horticulture/g810.htm "Table I. Carbon/Nitrogen Ratios of Some Common Organic Materials" [2] http://www.co2science.org/subject/r/summaries/roots.htm [3] http://www.ce-mag.com/archive/02/Spring/chubb.html "Findings" Thanks for the links, I will look at it later. :-) Newspapers will not block nightcrawler(earthworm) from pulling plant debris to their tunnel as their food. Landscape fabric will, I don't think you will find much earthworm under the landscape fabric. Unless nightcrawlers will chew a hole through newspaper to open their covered burrow (quite possibly true), unbroken newspaper is as much a barrier as landscape fabric. But assuming a population rate of 1-7 worms per square meter[4] there should be sufficient openings in a typical fabric installation such that the population is not impacted significantly (assuming there is no reason why they would not choose to use an available opening). Shallow burrowing earthworms do not share nightcrawler feeding habit, but may exit their wandering burrows during extensive rain[5]. [4] http://www.swcs.org/t_pubs_journal_2...acts_water.htm [5] http://www.ces.purdue.edu/extmedia/AY/AY-279.html Unless nightcrawlers will chew a hole through newspaper to open their covered burrow (quite possibly true) A few sheet of newspaper will not block earthworm. But assuming a population rate of 1-7 worms per square meter[4] there should be sufficient openings in a typical fabric installation such that the population is not impacted significantly (assuming there is no reason why they would not choose to use an available opening). Shallow burrowing earthworms do not share nightcrawler feeding habit, but may exit their wandering burrows during extensive rain[5]. I'm quite sure landscape fabric significantly reduce earthworm population. Newspapers will not block air and water to the soil, since they decompose quickly. Landscape fabric may, after sometime the holes may blocked by roots. Newspapers will block water to the soil or at the minimum cause pooling until drainage hole(s) are formed, which will not necessarily be uniformly distributed. Landscape fabric is semi-porous or porous to both air and water, as are roots. The mulch is more likely to block water than the fabric. Look at all short of filter we use, they all block. Do a test, remove the mulch on top of your landscape fabric, put some water on top of it, see how long it will pass through. Mulch have critters making tunnel in it, except there is little critter in it. Newspapers: For adding soil amendment(carbon/organic matter), just spread it on top of organic mulch(newspaper/manure/leaf...), eventurely it will find it way to soil by critters. Landscape fabric: Had to put it under the landscape fabric, or else only nutrient will pass through the landscape fabric in liquid form, but not much of organic matter. Correct, although the fabric will not necessarily pass the suspended nutrients, depending on the size of the pores in the fabric. I'm refer to those nutrien that resolve in water as liquid form. Newspapers: When weeds find the way through the old newspaper/mulch, just put new newspaper/mulch on top of weeds. Done! Landscape fabric: Do you ever think of putting new landscape fabric on top of old landscape fabric? ;-) Weeds other than certain monocotyledons will not find their way through landscape fabric from below. If a plants attempts to colonize the top of the fabric, it is easily picked off. Done! No need to dig or look for a newspaper stand. Landscape fabric is not overlayed because it is not necessary. However, if you have made a hole in the fabric that you do not want, it can be repaired by simply putting a new piece on top (or tucked below the existing fabric). No comment. g Newspapers: Never need to replace, just adding new one. Landscape fabric: It's a nightmare to replace a landscape fabric that have plant root grow into it. Landscape fabric: Never need to replace. Period. Okay, not in 5-15 years at least. Landscape fabric can become embeded with roots attempting to penetrate from below, but the removal of such fabric is of minor difficulty. Removing stripable wallpaper takes more effort. Landscape fabric: Never need to replace. Period. Okay, not in 5-15 years at least. From what I read, if landscape fabric are expose to sun, will not last long. Landscape fabric can become embeded with roots attempting to penetrate from below, but the removal of such fabric is of minor difficulty. From what I read, those user of landscape fabric donot take it as "minor difficulty". g Will I be able to cover a large area (such as 10-ft x 6-ft) Using a sickle to cut what(weeds) above the mulch, leave it there, add some new mulch. I can cover 50-ft x 5-ft within one hour, and it can last for two months. Don't afraid of walking on the mulch, this will not really compact the soil, walk on bare soil are another story. Landscape fabric is a long term installation and will take more time for planning and preparation. The actual installation is simple. No comment. g Sorry, I'm getting a bit impatience. :-( Sorry, Wong -- Latitude: 06.10N Longitude: 102.17E Altitude: 5m |
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Use Weeds Killer to Keep Weeds Out of My Flower Garden?
Thanks for taking the time to explain the benefits of using newspaper.
I didn't know that the landscape fabrics can prevent earthworms from living under it. This really makes me pause. I will have to think this through. Honestly, I don't really know what to do at this point. I am sure I will think of something. Thanks again. Jay Chan |
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Use Weeds Killer to Keep Weeds Out of My Flower Garden?
Jay, I've asked you a number of times how much work to expect to do on your
garden on a weekly or monthly basis, but you haven't responded. Would you care to do that now? "Jay Chan" wrote in message m... Thanks for taking the time to explain the benefits of using newspaper. I didn't know that the landscape fabrics can prevent earthworms from living under it. This really makes me pause. I will have to think this through. Honestly, I don't really know what to do at this point. I am sure I will think of something. Thanks again. Jay Chan |
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Use Weeds Killer to Keep Weeds Out of My Flower Garden?
Newspaper will decompose gradually, and if you want to add solid
"amendments", like compost, before the newspaper breaks down completely, all you have to do is poke holes in it with your garden fork. Seem like a good idea. I assume the earthworm living in the soil will take care of pulling organic material from the surface to inside the soil. This means I don't need to actually work the amendments into the soil. Great! Jay, I'm curious about two things: 1) In any given week, how many hours of work do you think is appropriate to keep your garden in shape? 2) During the "special weeks", at the beginning & end of season, how many hours of work do you expect? Normally, I really don't have a block of uninterrupted time for gardening. I can only steal some time here to plant a flower, make some time there to remove some weeds. I tend to spend only 10 to 15 minutes in the morning to do anything related to gardening and that includes the time to water the flower boxes and the flower garden, and walk around the garden to just enjoy the view. In the special week in the spring, I can convict my wife to let me spend some time working on the garden, and that is when I get most things done. Here, I am talking about one afternoon work. Jay Chan |
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Use Weeds Killer to Keep Weeds Out of My Flower Garden?
Jay, I've asked you a number of times how much work to expect to do on your
garden on a weekly or monthly basis, but you haven't responded. Would you care to do that now? I already responded that yesterday. Seem like we passed each other in cyber-space. Please scroll up and view my response to your original question. Jay Chan |
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Use Weeds Killer to Keep Weeds Out of My Flower Garden?
Xref: kermit rec.gardens:285569
Hello Wong, "nswong" wrote in news:2kou3bF4ttfeU1@uni- berlin.de: Adding carbon will quite possibly detract from the amount of N available to a plant. . It depend on the carbon are in what form. If it's sugar or starch, it do. If it's lignin or cellulose, the effect should be unnoticeable. Newspaper are compose mostly by cellulose. As I understand it, for optimal decomposition, you should have a C/N ratio of 30:1. I have read that wood chips and sawdust will reduce nitrogen availability during decomposition when used as mulch or in a compost pile, and I assumed that was because of the high carbon content. Newspaper has approximately between 1/2x and 5x the carbon of sawdust (both primarily celluose). [1] http://compost.css.cornell.edu/calc/lignin.html Adding N to compensate will degrade the weed blocking utility of the newspaper as decomposition accelerates Adding N will not always speed up the decompostion. It really depend on situation. hmm, according to [1], you are right, at least for lignin decomposition. A certain quantity of additional nitrogen will speed up anaerobic decomposition, but excess has little or no effect. It does not say about cellulose. Mulch supress weeds not just because the physical blocking ability, it can also leach out some chemical harm weeds. Critters in mulch will also help to supress weeds. Yes and also fungi. But to me, I will never add N to the mulch My point is if you wanted to increase nitrogen availability to the soil to compensate for newspaper decomposition loss (if there actually is any) you could add to the soil, but actually if you wanted newspaper for nutrients (as opposed to weed control), you should probably do that in the compost pile and not in the flower bed. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume carbon is of limited value as a nutrient amendment, as plants (primarily?) obtain carbon from atmospheric carbon dioxide during photosynthesis. At any rate, plants do *excrete* carbon from their roots after periods of elevated carbon dioxide[2]. However, I'll concede that the newspaper and newspaper debris may have indirect and significant benefits (functioning similarly to deciduous leaf litter) in providing habitat and food for beneficial insects and microbes and enhancing soil structure. Yes, here the soil amendment I'm refer to improve soil structure. While not directly contributing materiel, it is possible that landscape fabric made of polyester (and perhaps also polypropylene) can fixate minor amounts of atmospheric nitrogen via wind action and electrostatic effect[3]. I believe N fixed by bacterial using carbon as energy in orgainc mulch will do a better job. I agree, the amount of nitrogen fixated (if any) by electrostatic effect over a surface is probably minor, but I mention it because occasionally you hear about people growing huge tomatoes with panty hose (nylon) and the effect may be similar. Yes, newspapers need to be replaced often compared to landscape fabric. To me, this is not an advantage in permanent or semi-permanent installations. For this I do facing problem to explain my view. In bussiness, we talk about total cost of ownership. In here we talk about in the total life span of the product, how much cost involve and how much the return get. In these terms, landscape fabric is USD$10 / 150 sq. ft (14 sq. meter), with a life span of 15 years when installed properly, plus the starting cost of mulch, USD$2-3 / 3 cubic feet (for large pine bark nuggets) at recommended coverage rate of 4-6 inches (10-15 cm, mine is probably less than 2 inches) and periodic replacement cost for wind or decomposition loss. Other factors: labor savings in amount of time spent weeding, labor increase in adding amendments, productivity comparisons if relevant, etc. My recommendation is based on use for a home flower bed, not a large scale or intensive operation. For this, I'm not know enough to provide a view. Sorry about that. [1] http://ianrpubs.unl.edu/horticulture/g810.htm "Table I. Carbon/Nitrogen Ratios of Some Common Organic Materials" [2] http://www.co2science.org/subject/r/summaries/roots.htm [3] http://www.ce-mag.com/archive/02/Spring/chubb.html "Findings" Thanks for the links, I will look at it later. :-) Newspapers will not block nightcrawler(earthworm) from pulling plant debris to their tunnel as their food. Landscape fabric will, I don't think you will find much earthworm under the landscape fabric. Unless nightcrawlers will chew a hole through newspaper to open their covered burrow (quite possibly true), unbroken newspaper is as much a barrier as landscape fabric. But assuming a population rate of 1-7 worms per square meter[4] there should be sufficient openings in a typical fabric installation such that the population is not impacted significantly (assuming there is no reason why they would not choose to use an available opening). Shallow burrowing earthworms do not share nightcrawler feeding habit, but may exit their wandering burrows during extensive rain[5]. [4] http://www.swcs.org/t_pubs_journal_2...acts_water.htm [5] http://www.ces.purdue.edu/extmedia/AY/AY-279.html Unless nightcrawlers will chew a hole through newspaper to open their covered burrow (quite possibly true) A few sheet of newspaper will not block earthworm. In my experience, earthworms (not necessarily nightcrawlers) will continue to crawl until it finds an existing opening and not attempt to chew through paper to find an exit. In this way, I assume it is similar to fabric, although there is no way the earthworm will be able to chew through landscape fabric. These observations were in daylight, so may not be representative of normal behaviour. But assuming a population rate of 1-7 worms per square meter[4] there should be sufficient openings in a typical fabric installation such that the population is not impacted significantly (assuming there is no reason why they would not choose to use an available opening). Shallow burrowing earthworms do not share nightcrawler feeding habit, but may exit their wandering burrows during extensive rain[5]. I'm quite sure landscape fabric significantly reduce earthworm population. Okay. Newspapers will not block air and water to the soil, since they decompose quickly. Landscape fabric may, after sometime the holes may blocked by roots. Newspapers will block water to the soil or at the minimum cause pooling until drainage hole(s) are formed, which will not necessarily be uniformly distributed. Landscape fabric is semi-porous or porous to both air and water, as are roots. The mulch is more likely to block water than the fabric. Look at all short of filter we use, they all block. Do a test, remove the mulch on top of your landscape fabric, put some water on top of it, see how long it will pass through. I do not think this is a problem. When it rains, I do not have a problem with drainage, so the water must go down some where, even if the gutters are removed (and rain falls directly from the roof to the flower bed). If you test the fabric by itself, fast moving water (such as from a faucet) will be deflected from the surface, but slow water (as typical with mulch impeded flow) will drain. If it weren't porous, you might as well just you regular black polyethylene sheeting. Mulch have critters making tunnel in it, except there is little critter in it. I could be wrong, but I just don't see macroscopic organisms eating vertical holes through newspaper to gain surface access. Newspapers: For adding soil amendment(carbon/organic matter), just spread it on top of organic mulch(newspaper/manure/leaf...), eventurely it will find it way to soil by critters. Landscape fabric: Had to put it under the landscape fabric, or else only nutrient will pass through the landscape fabric in liquid form, but not much of organic matter. Correct, although the fabric will not necessarily pass the suspended nutrients, depending on the size of the pores in the fabric. I'm refer to those nutrien that resolve in water as liquid form. You mean nutrients that are dissolved in water? It is possible that the fabric (different kinds of fabric vary) will filter the dissolved nutrients (in the same way a paper coffee filter may filter salt from seawater). I do not know, so I would not rely on it. Newspapers: When weeds find the way through the old newspaper/mulch, just put new newspaper/mulch on top of weeds. Done! Landscape fabric: Do you ever think of putting new landscape fabric on top of old landscape fabric? ;-) Weeds other than certain monocotyledons will not find their way through landscape fabric from below. If a plants attempts to colonize the top of the fabric, it is easily picked off. Done! No need to dig or look for a newspaper stand. Landscape fabric is not overlayed because it is not necessary. However, if you have made a hole in the fabric that you do not want, it can be repaired by simply putting a new piece on top (or tucked below the existing fabric). No comment. g Newspapers: Never need to replace, just adding new one. Landscape fabric: It's a nightmare to replace a landscape fabric that have plant root grow into it. Landscape fabric: Never need to replace. Period. Okay, not in 5-15 years at least. Landscape fabric can become embeded with roots attempting to penetrate from below, but the removal of such fabric is of minor difficulty. Removing stripable wallpaper takes more effort. Landscape fabric: Never need to replace. Period. Okay, not in 5-15 years at least. From what I read, if landscape fabric are expose to sun, will not last long. Yes, this is printed on the product labeling. However, I have some exposed pieces (DuPont Weed Control Fabric, rugged spunbonded polypropylene, UPC 0 83014 20163 2) outside and after more than a year, visually they all look the same as pieces that were stored in the original bag in the garage. (I did not look at them under a microscope.) The degradation rate probably differs in Canada and Singapore. (Not the same product as used in my front yard, which is similar to but not EasyGardener Weedblock.) Landscape fabric can become embeded with roots attempting to penetrate from below, but the removal of such fabric is of minor difficulty. From what I read, those user of landscape fabric donot take it as "minor difficulty". g haha, perhaps the Green lacking in my Thumb is made up with my Incredible Hulk strength. Will I be able to cover a large area (such as 10-ft x 6-ft) Using a sickle to cut what(weeds) above the mulch, leave it there, add some new mulch. I can cover 50-ft x 5-ft within one hour, and it can last for two months. Don't afraid of walking on the mulch, this will not really compact the soil, walk on bare soil are another story. Landscape fabric is a long term installation and will take more time for planning and preparation. The actual installation is simple. No comment. g Sorry, I'm getting a bit impatience. :-( No comment. :-) |
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