I'm thinking about putting an HO Scale railroad in the garden when I
plant it this spring. I'm posting here because I need advice on what I
can lay track ON that would be sturdy and not harm my tomatoes,
strawberries, watermelon, carrots, green beans (or whatever else I plant.)

At the moment, my main question is how to securely mount the track. I
plan on soldering every joint so electric connectivity isn't a problem.
The track is about 1" wide with plastic "ties" between the rails.
Normally, track is mounted by putting a nail through the center of the
tie in to a board or with glue. However, a 1/2" nail like I use
wouldn't be sufficient to hold track in place on dirt/weed block.

Also, HO scale track is somewhat fragile. Any ideas on how to prevent
having it stepped on? (I'm sure many gardeners have come across a
similar problem.)

If there's a better newsgroup for this, I don't think my ISP carries
it... There's no rec.models.railroads.garden like there is
rec.models.railroads.ho

--- Short introduction to model railroad scales in general. (For the
curious.) ---

Model railroads are railroads built to resemble the full scale railroads
that I'm sure everyone has seen or at least crossed their tracks.
They're built to different sizes (each with their advantages and
disadvantages) called /scales/ and they usually have letter names. O
scale (1:48 proportion) was one of the original so when trains came out
that were roughly half of O scale (1:87) it was called HO for "Half O."

Puckdropper
--
www.uncreativelabs.net

Old computers are getting to be a lost art. Here at Uncreative Labs, we
still enjoy using the old computers. Sometimes we want to see how far a
particular system can go, other times we use a stock system to remind
ourselves of what we once had.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

Puckdropper wrote:
I'm thinking about putting an HO Scale railroad in the garden when I
plant it this spring. I'm posting here because I need advice on what
I can lay track ON that would be sturdy and not harm my tomatoes,
strawberries, watermelon, carrots, green beans (or whatever else I
plant.)

At the moment, my main question is how to securely mount the track. I
plan on soldering every joint so electric connectivity isn't a
problem. The track is about 1" wide with plastic "ties" between the
rails. Normally, track is mounted by putting a nail through the center
of the tie in to a board or with glue. However, a 1/2" nail like I
use wouldn't be sufficient to hold track in place on dirt/weed block.

Also, HO scale track is somewhat fragile. Any ideas on how to prevent
having it stepped on? (I'm sure many gardeners have come across a
similar problem.)

If there's a better newsgroup for this, I don't think my ISP carries
it... There's no rec.models.railroads.garden like there is
rec.models.railroads.ho

--- Short introduction to model railroad scales in general. (For the
curious.) ---

Model railroads are railroads built to resemble the full scale
railroads that I'm sure everyone has seen or at least crossed their
tracks. They're built to different sizes (each with their advantages
and disadvantages) called /scales/ and they usually have letter names.
O scale (1:48 proportion) was one of the original so when trains came
out that were roughly half of O scale (1:87) it was called HO for
"Half O."


You might want to look at Garden Railways Magazine:
http://www.trains.com/maghomepage/ma...p?idMagazine=5

Personally, I think that HO is far too small to be built on even firmly
packed ground. I think you'll find that you'll never get the ground flat
enough unless you pre-mount the track on some very wide pieces of
plywood, and do a reasonably good job of grading an even wider path.

You'll find some people talk about G-scale or G-gauge, but there really
is no such thing. Gauge refers to the distance between the rails, and
scale refers to the ratio to full-size. These days garden railroads are
often built on what was once the obsolete 1-gauge rails, but the scale
of rolling stock varies. you'll find 1:20.3, 1:22.5, 1:24, 1:29 and 1:32
but not a big selection in any of them. If you're going for accuracy of
full-size railroads, 1:32 would be correct, but there's more available
in 1:29, which with 1-gauge track would be more like a narrow-gauge
railroad in real life.

I just can't see HO as being practical for a real garden railroad.
Possibly as part of a patio railroad, but not out on the actual earth.
But maybe someone else out there has made it work.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Compare the newest tax preparation software apps:
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/taxes/index.html

Puckdropper expounded:

If there's a better newsgroup for this, I don't think my ISP carries
it... There's no rec.models.railroads.garden like there is
rec.models.railroads.ho

There is an alt.models.railroad.ho listed in my newsgroups (with
Newsguy.com for a server). Although I didn't find a
rec.models.railroads.ho, I'll have to ask them about that! I could
have sworn there was a garden railroad group.

Here's a few links I found on a dogpile search:

http://www.railserve.com/Models/Retail/

http://www.trains.com/maghomepage/ma...p?idMagazine=5

http://www.btcomm.com/trains/primer/budget.htm

Puckdropper wrote in
news:4m_Kd.74$Xs6.26@trnddc01:

I'm thinking about putting an HO Scale railroad in the
garden when I plant it this spring. I'm posting here
because I need advice on what I can lay track ON that would
be sturdy and not harm my tomatoes, strawberries,
watermelon, carrots, green beans (or whatever else I
plant.)

most people use G scale for garden railroads for two reasons.
it's big enough to actually see & it's not as fragile as HO.
that said, i would use exterior plywood for your roadbed & post
really big signs warning people about RR Crossings
one other drawback to HO is no matter what you plant, it's
going to be completely out of proportion to the trains. if that
doesn't bother you, then go for it!
lee

At the moment, my main question is how to securely mount
the track. I plan on soldering every joint so electric
connectivity isn't a problem.
The track is about 1" wide with plastic "ties" between
the rails.
Normally, track is mounted by putting a nail through the
center of the tie in to a board or with glue. However, a
1/2" nail like I use wouldn't be sufficient to hold track
in place on dirt/weed block.

Also, HO scale track is somewhat fragile. Any ideas on how
to prevent having it stepped on? (I'm sure many gardeners
have come across a similar problem.)

If there's a better newsgroup for this, I don't think my
ISP carries it... There's no rec.models.railroads.garden
like there is rec.models.railroads.ho

--- Short introduction to model railroad scales in general.
(For the curious.) ---

Model railroads are railroads built to resemble the full
scale railroads that I'm sure everyone has seen or at least
crossed their tracks. They're built to different sizes
(each with their advantages and disadvantages) called
/scales/ and they usually have letter names. O scale (1:48
proportion) was one of the original so when trains came out
that were roughly half of O scale (1:87) it was called HO
for "Half O."

Puckdropper



--
It is paradoxical that many educators and parents still
differentiate
between a time for learning and a time for play without seeing
the vital
connection between them. -Leo Buscaglia, author (1924-1998)

At that scale, you will have to be an obsessive neat freak
to keep it running. Unless it is completely enclosed, like
in a greenhouse or something, you will have to contend with
all kinds of flying and crawling mammals, birds, and insects
as well as weather and the plants themselves. Even a stray
blade of grass would have the potential to stall a train.
I think most of the garden railroaders will tell you to go
"O" or bigger.

But if you insist, you might want to look at some of the new
vinyl products designed for outdoor deck and fence work that
machine like wood but are mostly impervious to rot, mildew,
etc. Maybe 1x4's half-lap jointed on a bed of compacted sand
like you would do paving bricks and secured with gutter spikes.
And I think I would be inclined to try tiny screws instead of
nails as less likely to work loose. And if you insist on the
"quiet track" thing, maybe try micro-mesh packing material
instead of cork. Or maybe something rubbery like bicycle
inner tubes. Outdoors, I think I would rule the noise factor
irrelevant and go for solid mounting, but it's your call.

Mounted to a solid base, your track will take more abuse
than you might think. It will probably support your full
weight vertically in sneakers if you don't scooch around.
You can protect it somewhat by building up the surroundings
flush or slightly above the top of the rails, although that
might detract from the esthetics of your layout, depending
on your scenic plans.

And if you *really* want it to be sturdy, you can make your
own "track" by embedding metal strips in the dielectric
material of your choice, pour a reinforced concrete base,
etc. From an engineering standpoint, just about anything
can be made to work with sufficient investment of time and
materials. As a hobby, it's up to you find a performance
vs. difficulty tradeoff point that fits your comfort level.

In article 4m_Kd.74$Xs6.26@trnddc01, says...
I'm thinking about putting an HO Scale railroad in the garden when I
plant it this spring. I'm posting here because I need advice on what I
can lay track ON that would be sturdy and not harm my tomatoes,
strawberries, watermelon, carrots, green beans (or whatever else I plant.)

At the moment, my main question is how to securely mount the track. I
plan on soldering every joint so electric connectivity isn't a problem.
The track is about 1" wide with plastic "ties" between the rails.
Normally, track is mounted by putting a nail through the center of the
tie in to a board or with glue. However, a 1/2" nail like I use
wouldn't be sufficient to hold track in place on dirt/weed block.

Also, HO scale track is somewhat fragile. Any ideas on how to prevent
having it stepped on? (I'm sure many gardeners have come across a
similar problem.)

In article 4m_Kd.74$Xs6.26@trnddc01, says...
If there's a better newsgroup for this, I don't think my ISP carries
it... There's no rec.models.railroads.garden like there is
rec.models.railroads.ho

What's wrong with plain old rec.models.railroad? And there's a plethora
of model railroad groups on Yahoo.

I have enough trouble getting good roadbed indoors in HO :-). I think
you'll never get reliable operation outdoors. Although I do remember an
article long ago in Model Railroader (IIRC) about someone who ran a
track (not a loop) along his top fence stringer. That might be doable.

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

In article , enigma
wrote:

Puckdropper wrote in
news:4m_Kd.74$Xs6.26@trnddc01:

I'm thinking about putting an HO Scale railroad in the
garden when I plant it this spring. I'm posting here
because I need advice on what I can lay track ON that would
be sturdy and not harm my tomatoes, strawberries,
watermelon, carrots, green beans (or whatever else I
plant.)

most people use G scale for garden railroads for two reasons.
it's big enough to actually see & it's not as fragile as HO.
that said, i would use exterior plywood for your roadbed & post
really big signs warning people about RR Crossings
one other drawback to HO is no matter what you plant, it's
going to be completely out of proportion to the trains. if that
doesn't bother you, then go for it!
lee

Fun little thread!

Has anyone ever put a scaled down roller-coaster in their garden to give
cats & terriers & hamsters scary rides?

-paghat the ratgirl
--
Get your Paghat the Ratgirl T-Shirt he
http://www.paghat.com/giftshop.html

Larry Blanchard wrote:
*snip*


What's wrong with plain old rec.models.railroad? And there's a plethora
of model railroad groups on Yahoo.


There's nothing wrong with rec.models.railroad. I just figured the
people here would have a few ideas on what to use that would not affect
the soil negatively. (I plan on eating what I grow, so it's not like a
flower just dieing.) You're not supposed to use railroad ties for
gardens because of the creosote, for example.

I have enough trouble getting good roadbed indoors in HO :-). I think
you'll never get reliable operation outdoors. Although I do remember an
article long ago in Model Railroader (IIRC) about someone who ran a
track (not a loop) along his top fence stringer. That might be doable.


There's supposed to be a 1964 issue of MR that had an article about HO
outside... However I don't have any MR's from that year. I will
probably try it and see how it holds up. I've got plenty of brass track
so I'm only out time if it doesn't work.

Puckdropper
--
www.uncreativelabs.net

Old computers are getting to be a lost art. Here at Uncreative Labs, we
still enjoy using the old computers. Sometimes we want to see how far a
particular system can go, other times we use a stock system to remind
ourselves of what we once had.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

Ol' Duffer wrote:

At that scale, you will have to be an obsessive neat freak
to keep it running. Unless it is completely enclosed, like
in a greenhouse or something, you will have to contend with
all kinds of flying and crawling mammals, birds, and insects
as well as weather and the plants themselves. Even a stray
blade of grass would have the potential to stall a train.
I think most of the garden railroaders will tell you to go
"O" or bigger.

I didn't really think of the flying and non flying animals... I don't
normally see them when I'm outside.


But if you insist, you might want to look at some of the new
vinyl products designed for outdoor deck and fence work that
machine like wood but are mostly impervious to rot, mildew,
etc. Maybe 1x4's half-lap jointed on a bed of compacted sand
like you would do paving bricks and secured with gutter spikes.
And I think I would be inclined to try tiny screws instead of
nails as less likely to work loose. And if you insist on the
"quiet track" thing, maybe try micro-mesh packing material
instead of cork. Or maybe something rubbery like bicycle
inner tubes. Outdoors, I think I would rule the noise factor
irrelevant and go for solid mounting, but it's your call.

I may give some of that a try. Thanks. I don't think I'll go for the
"quiet track" thing as it really doesn't matter. I doubt anyone will
hear it if they're not listening.

Using screws is a good idea. I'll have to visit a hardware store and
see what they carry. (Maybe something with a shallow head and about
1/4" deep...)

Mounted to a solid base, your track will take more abuse
than you might think. It will probably support your full
weight vertically in sneakers if you don't scooch around.
You can protect it somewhat by building up the surroundings
flush or slightly above the top of the rails, although that
might detract from the esthetics of your layout, depending
on your scenic plans.

And if you *really* want it to be sturdy, you can make your
own "track" by embedding metal strips in the dielectric
material of your choice, pour a reinforced concrete base,
etc. From an engineering standpoint, just about anything
can be made to work with sufficient investment of time and
materials. As a hobby, it's up to you find a performance
vs. difficulty tradeoff point that fits your comfort level.


Thanks for the suggestions. My scenic plans have been not to scenic ;-)
I'm just going for having the train in the garden and look somewhat
natural. (I know those 3' tomato plants scale up to about 500' in HO.)

Puckdropper
--
www.uncreativelabs.net

Old computers are getting to be a lost art. Here at Uncreative Labs, we
still enjoy using the old computers. Sometimes we want to see how far a
particular system can go, other times we use a stock system to remind
ourselves of what we once had.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

Attack of the killer tomatoes?

Puckdropper wrote:



Ol' Duffer wrote:

At that scale, you will have to be an obsessive neat freak
to keep it running. Unless it is completely enclosed, like
in a greenhouse or something, you will have to contend with
all kinds of flying and crawling mammals, birds, and insects
as well as weather and the plants themselves. Even a stray
blade of grass would have the potential to stall a train.
I think most of the garden railroaders will tell you to go
"O" or bigger.


I didn't really think of the flying and non flying animals... I don't
normally see them when I'm outside.


But if you insist, you might want to look at some of the new
vinyl products designed for outdoor deck and fence work that
machine like wood but are mostly impervious to rot, mildew,
etc. Maybe 1x4's half-lap jointed on a bed of compacted sand
like you would do paving bricks and secured with gutter spikes.
And I think I would be inclined to try tiny screws instead of
nails as less likely to work loose. And if you insist on the
"quiet track" thing, maybe try micro-mesh packing material
instead of cork. Or maybe something rubbery like bicycle
inner tubes. Outdoors, I think I would rule the noise factor
irrelevant and go for solid mounting, but it's your call.


I may give some of that a try. Thanks. I don't think I'll go for the
"quiet track" thing as it really doesn't matter. I doubt anyone will
hear it if they're not listening.

Using screws is a good idea. I'll have to visit a hardware store and
see what they carry. (Maybe something with a shallow head and about
1/4" deep...)

Mounted to a solid base, your track will take more abuse
than you might think. It will probably support your full
weight vertically in sneakers if you don't scooch around.
You can protect it somewhat by building up the surroundings
flush or slightly above the top of the rails, although that
might detract from the esthetics of your layout, depending
on your scenic plans.

And if you *really* want it to be sturdy, you can make your
own "track" by embedding metal strips in the dielectric
material of your choice, pour a reinforced concrete base,
etc. From an engineering standpoint, just about anything
can be made to work with sufficient investment of time and
materials. As a hobby, it's up to you find a performance
vs. difficulty tradeoff point that fits your comfort level.


Thanks for the suggestions. My scenic plans have been not to scenic ;-)
I'm just going for having the train in the garden and look somewhat
natural. (I know those 3' tomato plants scale up to about 500' in HO.)

Puckdropper

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 05:34:56 GMT, Puckdropper wrote:

I'm thinking about putting an HO Scale railroad in the garden when I
plant it this spring. I'm posting here because I need advice on what I
can lay track ON that would be sturdy and not harm my tomatoes,
strawberries, watermelon, carrots, green beans (or whatever else I plant.)

I think something as small as HO in an outdoor environment will make
you crazy; it takes so little to disrupt models that small. You'll
have dirt and corrosion interrupting the electrical pickup off the
tracks, plus whatever weeds, runners, etc. manage to grow
up/through/over the rails. At Morris Aboretum, not too far from me,
they have a garden railway running in the warmer months. It's the "G"
scale or whatever the big stuff is, but I note that quite a bit of it
runs on elevated trestles so it's not all at ground level. The
trestles are made of all sorts of interesting stuff -- like bamboo and
other atypical model RR material. It's been several years since I
visited, I guess they're still doing it. Even with that size, there
was a bit of "right-o-way" maintenance going on when I was there.

You could probably elevate strips of Trex or other synthetic deck
lumber on posts of plastic pipe or something along those lines. Is
the garden fenced? You could run a strip of Trex around on shelf
brackets.

I think you should consider doing a big garden and get more serious
about the models:
http://www4.pbase.com/dw_thomas/pls

:-)

DaveT

This is a new one on me but I don't hang out here a whole lot. I suppose you
make a tunnel in the watermelon when it decides to set fruit on the track.
:-) and tie up bad bugs and lay them across the tracks ah lah Snidley
Whiplash. That should be fun too.


"Puckdropper" wrote in message
news:4m_Kd.74$Xs6.26@trnddc01...
I'm thinking about putting an HO Scale railroad in the garden when I
plant it this spring. I'm posting here because I need advice on what I
can lay track ON that would be sturdy and not harm my tomatoes,
strawberries, watermelon, carrots, green beans (or whatever else I plant.)

At the moment, my main question is how to securely mount the track. I
plan on soldering every joint so electric connectivity isn't a problem.
The track is about 1" wide with plastic "ties" between the rails.
Normally, track is mounted by putting a nail through the center of the
tie in to a board or with glue. However, a 1/2" nail like I use
wouldn't be sufficient to hold track in place on dirt/weed block.

Also, HO scale track is somewhat fragile. Any ideas on how to prevent
having it stepped on? (I'm sure many gardeners have come across a
similar problem.)

If there's a better newsgroup for this, I don't think my ISP carries
it... There's no rec.models.railroads.garden like there is
rec.models.railroads.ho

--- Short introduction to model railroad scales in general. (For the
curious.) ---

Model railroads are railroads built to resemble the full scale railroads
that I'm sure everyone has seen or at least crossed their tracks.
They're built to different sizes (each with their advantages and
disadvantages) called /scales/ and they usually have letter names. O
scale (1:48 proportion) was one of the original so when trains came out
that were roughly half of O scale (1:87) it was called HO for "Half O."

Puckdropper
--
www.uncreativelabs.net

Old computers are getting to be a lost art. Here at Uncreative Labs, we
still enjoy using the old computers. Sometimes we want to see how far a
particular system can go, other times we use a stock system to remind
ourselves of what we once had.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

IMHO HO is too small for outdoor work. I don't run any trains, but as I
recall, the tracks are brass or some similar metal that will corrode if
exposed to a lot of nasty weather. This makes electrical trouble for
trains that don't have enough weight on the wheels to break through the
corrosion layer on the tracks. You might be able to avoid this problem
if you run a train with some internal power source (batteries in the
drawn cars) and maybe radio control.

Just an estimate, to use the track as an electrical source you would do
better with something with a gauge of around a foot rather than an inch.
The weight would be enough to make better contact with the rails and the
wheel size would be large enough to compete more effectively with weeds.
(How *do* you weed between the tracks on HO gauge?) Most people don't
run that sort of model and I suspect they would be pricey (but they're
getting to the level that you can ride on them). Of course at that size
you could run an internal gasoline engine or a car battery.

Out of curiosity I Googled garden railroad and found a several (~2
million) sites, including people who have them, people who sell them,
magazines and e-zines, etc. e.g.:

http://www.railsusa.com/gardenrr.shtml
http://www.largescale.com/
http://www.tttrains.com/sjrp/ "radio control is essential for operation
in the garden"

Much more, more than I wanted to go through.



Puckdropper wrote:
I'm thinking about putting an HO Scale railroad in the garden when I
plant it this spring. I'm posting here because I need advice on what I
can lay track ON that would be sturdy and not harm my tomatoes,
strawberries, watermelon, carrots, green beans (or whatever else I plant.)...

dps wrote:
IMHO HO is too small for outdoor work. I don't run any trains, but as I
recall, the tracks are brass or some similar metal that will corrode if
exposed to a lot of nasty weather. This makes electrical trouble for
trains that don't have enough weight on the wheels to break through the
corrosion layer on the tracks. You might be able to avoid this problem
if you run a train with some internal power source (batteries in the
drawn cars) and maybe radio control.

I didn't realize the weight of large scale engines would break through
the corrosion. Nickel silver track is supposed to have a electrically
conductive corrosion layer, but I'm not too sure.


Just an estimate, to use the track as an electrical source you would do
better with something with a gauge of around a foot rather than an inch.
The weight would be enough to make better contact with the rails and the
wheel size would be large enough to compete more effectively with weeds.
(How *do* you weed between the tracks on HO gauge?) Most people don't
run that sort of model and I suspect they would be pricey (but they're
getting to the level that you can ride on them). Of course at that size
you could run an internal gasoline engine or a car battery.

Weed barrier. If I slice it in to strips larger than the roadbed it
should handle most weeds. The others will have to be pulled up young...
very young. (Just like most gardeners recommend.)

*online resources*

Thanks for the links... I googled before I posted and also searched the
trains.com forums. (I saw a guy post here I knew from there.)


Much more, more than I wanted to go through.




I've got HO scale stuff now (and an excess of sectional track due to
past layouts) so to do something like this means I have to spend a
little amount of money. My Bachmann standard series locomotives are
going to be doing most the work... They're quite hard to destroy. My
good stuff stays inside!

Puckdropper
--
www.uncreativelabs.net

Old computers are getting to be a lost art. Here at Uncreative Labs, we
still enjoy using the old computers. Sometimes we want to see how far a
particular system can go, other times we use a stock system to remind
ourselves of what we once had.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

HO?
isn't that a little small for outdoors?

--
http://img195.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img1...dcp00330kx.jpg





"Puckdropper" wrote in message
news:4m_Kd.74$Xs6.26@trnddc01...
: I'm thinking about putting an HO Scale railroad in the garden when
I
: plant it this spring. I'm posting here because I need advice on
what I
: can lay track ON that would be sturdy and not harm my tomatoes,
: strawberries, watermelon, carrots, green beans (or whatever else I
plant.)
:
: At the moment, my main question is how to securely mount the
track. I
: plan on soldering every joint so electric connectivity isn't a
problem.
: The track is about 1" wide with plastic "ties" between the
rails.
: Normally, track is mounted by putting a nail through the center of
the
: tie in to a board or with glue. However, a 1/2" nail like I use
: wouldn't be sufficient to hold track in place on dirt/weed block.
:
: Also, HO scale track is somewhat fragile. Any ideas on how to
prevent
: having it stepped on? (I'm sure many gardeners have come across a
: similar problem.)
:
: If there's a better newsgroup for this, I don't think my ISP
carries
: it... There's no rec.models.railroads.garden like there is
: rec.models.railroads.ho
:
: --- Short introduction to model railroad scales in general. (For
the
: curious.) ---
:
: Model railroads are railroads built to resemble the full scale
railroads
: that I'm sure everyone has seen or at least crossed their tracks.
: They're built to different sizes (each with their advantages and
: disadvantages) called /scales/ and they usually have letter names.
O
: scale (1:48 proportion) was one of the original so when trains
came out
: that were roughly half of O scale (1:87) it was called HO for
"Half O."
:
: Puckdropper
: --
: www.uncreativelabs.net
:
: Old computers are getting to be a lost art. Here at Uncreative
Labs, we
: still enjoy using the old computers. Sometimes we want to see how
far a
: particular system can go, other times we use a stock system to
remind
: ourselves of what we once had.
:
: To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at)
fastmail.fm