Ideally what you are trying to do is to get an even spray from one head to
the next. If you have too many heads on a zone, too much water going
through the nozzles, your pressure may drop just enough not to reach the
next head to it.
A 15' half circle nozzle uses about 1.8 gallons per minute at 30 psi. (12'
nozzles do about 1.3 gal. per minute at 30 psi) If you have 22 gallons per
minute available you should use a max of 10 - 11 heads with 15' nozzles, and
as many as 15 - 16 heads.. Anything above that and you suffer the
consequences of inadequate coverage.
One thing you may be able to do is make sure that all of the nozzles are the
same size, all 12' nozzles. Then there are pressure compensating screens
available that will limit the amount of water coming through and increasing
the pressure a little bit.
Another thing to keep in mind is that not all 3/4" pipe is made alike.
Schedule 40 is thicker walled than class 200. Class 200 is a thinner walled
pipe and as such will allow a little bit more water to come through allowing
for more heads.
Finally, depending on the shape and the size of the lawn areas you may be
able to change from a spray head to a stream rotor. I have successfully
used Rainbird 3500 series rotors. At 25 psi and a nozzle size of 2.0 you
only use 1.4 gallons per minute, thus your pressure increases by using fewer
heads. The down turn is that your precipitation rate also drops
dramatically. To get the same amount of water to cover the larger area you
will need to water longer. In general the sprinklers will run from 1/2 to
3/4 hour per watering. But with your trusty tuna can you can dial in the
watering time pretty accurately.

Good luck



"G Burton" wrote in message
news
Thanks again! I will do more investigation about the regulator. I
may
have an obstruction coming into the house. The inlet pipe is 3/4", so I
don't think I should be having this pressure problem. I am clueless now
too, but I will get it figured out.

I think I allowed myself to get distracted by the regulator. It's a
problem that should be addressed (or at least understood), and I will do
that. However the fact remains that when the sprinklers are on, I have 30
psi into the solenoid. Obviously I have no pressure regulation, but I
have
30 psi. I know I don't have overpressure at the time the sprinklers are
operating because the heads don't pop completely up if I reduce the
pressure
any more. Therefore, I think you still can help me -- in spite of my
goofy
regulator..

What would cause the coverage gaps about 3 ft from the sprinkler
heads?
I have 12 and 15 foot nozzles? The spray looks normal.


"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 18:57:53 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

Please bear with me just a little bit longer.

I put a pressure meter between my pressure regulator and my solenoid
valves. If I set the pressure to 30 psi when the sprinkers are on, then
turn the sprinklers off, the meter jumps up to 65 psi and stays there.
I
am
thinking that my pressure regulator is bad. My pressure regulator is a
Watts 35B, but I can't find flow rate information on it.

I'm clueless here...but here's what watts writes...
http://www.wattsreg.com/pdf/1915088.pdf

Troubleshooting
High System Pressure
If the downstream system pressure is higher than the set
pressure under no flow conditions, the cause could be thermal
expansion, pressure creep or dirt/debris on the seat.
Thermal expansion occurs whenever water is heated in a
closed system. The system is closed when supply pressure
exceeds 150psi, or a check valve or backflow preventer is
installed in the supply piping.
You must make provisions for pressure relief protection of your
plumbing system and components. The use of a relief valve
such as the Watts 530C, BRV, Governor 80, or 3L or potable
water expansion tank such as the Watts DET,
PLT or DETA may be required.
To determine if this is the result of thermal
expansion, try briefly opening the cold water tap.
If the increased pressure is caused by thermal
expansion, the pressure will immediately be
relieved and the system will return to the set
pressure. Watts offers a pressure test
gauge, model 276H300 to assist you in
determining if you have high water pressure.
The 276H300 when attached to a
hose bibb registers the highest pressure
reading over the period of time it is left on
the system.
USA: 815 Chestnut St., No.Andover, MA 01845-6098;www.wattsreg.com
Canada: 5435 North Service Rd., Burlington, ONT. L7L
5H7;www.wattscanada.ca
1. Ordering Code 3. Type Number
2. Size of Valve 4. Model shown on Nameplate
Watts 276H300

Does it sound like a bad regulator to you?

Where can I find flow rate information on it.

Simple google search....
http://www.americanbackflow.com/cata.../watts.35b.pdf


BTW, I have 17 heads, not 16. The total flow should be about 22 GPM
per
the RB chart.

"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 04:53:34 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

The wind made a difference, and it appears that you were
absolutely
right. In 12 min of sprinkling, I collected .132" at the bad spot and
.305"
in the good spot.

Several of the bad spots are about 3 ft from a 12 ft spray nozzle,
which
makes me suspect overspraying. I just measured my pressure, and got
62
psi
upstream of the solenoids

I set the pressure high because I have 16
sprinklers each in 2 of my sections.

Increasing pressure does NOT solve inadequate flow! Please review the
chat from RB and calculate flow demand.
http://rainbird.com/landscape/produc...hart_12MPR.htm
you've created a misting system!!!

At 30PSI if all were half sprays you'd have a 20GPM demand. I'm
approximating and not taking into account friction loss etc.

It would be very difficult to add more
sections.

Not to bad, what you need to add is another valve.....


Have you confirmed head to head coverage?
There are heads within 11-12' of the head with the dry spot....sorry
to repeat, but it's another one of the MOST likely problems with
installation! (I have seen both flow and distribution uniformity
problems)

I am using the better Rainbird sprinklers -- not the Home Depot
version.
What would be the best approach?

Congratulations, most don't realize that HD sells crap!!!

a. Reduce the pressure? If so, what to?

Optimum charted pressure is 30PSI
http://rainbird.com/landscape/produc...hart_12MPR.htm
1899 series heads are capable of 70PSI but are foggers at that
pressure even with adequate flow!

b. Change the sprinkler nozzles? If so, what to?

Here our calciferous high dissolved solids level in city water DOES
distort spry nozzles after a few years.
c. Something else.
Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant
a
pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold




Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a
pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold

Thanks!

You made some good suggestions.

I have some piping that is class 200 (or 100), and I have had horrible
experience with it breaking every time I touch it with a shovel. I replace
it with class 40 whenever I can.

I don't think I can convert to the rotors, but I will look into it. It
wouldn't make sense unless I could do my whole lawn that way, and I'm not
sure the shape of the lawn will permit that.

I will also look into the pressure-reducing screens, and reduce the
spray diameter wherever I can.

You gave me some good homework, but I'm sure there is a solution in it.

"Ulrich M. Reich" wrote in message
news:xrfKe.9033$0d.6950@trnddc02...
Ideally what you are trying to do is to get an even spray from one head to
the next. If you have too many heads on a zone, too much water going
through the nozzles, your pressure may drop just enough not to reach the
next head to it.
A 15' half circle nozzle uses about 1.8 gallons per minute at 30 psi. (12'
nozzles do about 1.3 gal. per minute at 30 psi) If you have 22 gallons
per
minute available you should use a max of 10 - 11 heads with 15' nozzles,
and
as many as 15 - 16 heads.. Anything above that and you suffer the
consequences of inadequate coverage.
One thing you may be able to do is make sure that all of the nozzles are
the
same size, all 12' nozzles. Then there are pressure compensating screens
available that will limit the amount of water coming through and
increasing
the pressure a little bit.
Another thing to keep in mind is that not all 3/4" pipe is made alike.
Schedule 40 is thicker walled than class 200. Class 200 is a thinner
walled
pipe and as such will allow a little bit more water to come through
allowing
for more heads.
Finally, depending on the shape and the size of the lawn areas you may be
able to change from a spray head to a stream rotor. I have successfully
used Rainbird 3500 series rotors. At 25 psi and a nozzle size of 2.0 you
only use 1.4 gallons per minute, thus your pressure increases by using
fewer
heads. The down turn is that your precipitation rate also drops
dramatically. To get the same amount of water to cover the larger area
you
will need to water longer. In general the sprinklers will run from 1/2 to
3/4 hour per watering. But with your trusty tuna can you can dial in the
watering time pretty accurately.

Good luck



"G Burton" wrote in message
news
Thanks again! I will do more investigation about the regulator. I
may
have an obstruction coming into the house. The inlet pipe is 3/4", so I
don't think I should be having this pressure problem. I am clueless now
too, but I will get it figured out.

I think I allowed myself to get distracted by the regulator. It's a
problem that should be addressed (or at least understood), and I will do
that. However the fact remains that when the sprinklers are on, I have
30
psi into the solenoid. Obviously I have no pressure regulation, but I
have
30 psi. I know I don't have overpressure at the time the sprinklers are
operating because the heads don't pop completely up if I reduce the
pressure
any more. Therefore, I think you still can help me -- in spite of my
goofy
regulator..

What would cause the coverage gaps about 3 ft from the sprinkler
heads?
I have 12 and 15 foot nozzles? The spray looks normal.


"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 18:57:53 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

Please bear with me just a little bit longer.

I put a pressure meter between my pressure regulator and my
solenoid
valves. If I set the pressure to 30 psi when the sprinkers are on,
then
turn the sprinklers off, the meter jumps up to 65 psi and stays there.
I
am
thinking that my pressure regulator is bad. My pressure regulator is a
Watts 35B, but I can't find flow rate information on it.

I'm clueless here...but here's what watts writes...
http://www.wattsreg.com/pdf/1915088.pdf

Troubleshooting
High System Pressure
If the downstream system pressure is higher than the set
pressure under no flow conditions, the cause could be thermal
expansion, pressure creep or dirt/debris on the seat.
Thermal expansion occurs whenever water is heated in a
closed system. The system is closed when supply pressure
exceeds 150psi, or a check valve or backflow preventer is
installed in the supply piping.
You must make provisions for pressure relief protection of your
plumbing system and components. The use of a relief valve
such as the Watts 530C, BRV, Governor 80, or 3L or potable
water expansion tank such as the Watts DET,
PLT or DETA may be required.
To determine if this is the result of thermal
expansion, try briefly opening the cold water tap.
If the increased pressure is caused by thermal
expansion, the pressure will immediately be
relieved and the system will return to the set
pressure. Watts offers a pressure test
gauge, model 276H300 to assist you in
determining if you have high water pressure.
The 276H300 when attached to a
hose bibb registers the highest pressure
reading over the period of time it is left on
the system.
USA: 815 Chestnut St., No.Andover, MA 01845-6098;www.wattsreg.com
Canada: 5435 North Service Rd., Burlington, ONT. L7L
5H7;www.wattscanada.ca
1. Ordering Code 3. Type Number
2. Size of Valve 4. Model shown on Nameplate
Watts 276H300

Does it sound like a bad regulator to you?

Where can I find flow rate information on it.

Simple google search....
http://www.americanbackflow.com/cata.../watts.35b.pdf


BTW, I have 17 heads, not 16. The total flow should be about 22
GPM
per
the RB chart.

"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 04:53:34 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

The wind made a difference, and it appears that you were
absolutely
right. In 12 min of sprinkling, I collected .132" at the bad spot
and
.305"
in the good spot.

Several of the bad spots are about 3 ft from a 12 ft spray
nozzle,
which
makes me suspect overspraying. I just measured my pressure, and got
62
psi
upstream of the solenoids

I set the pressure high because I have 16
sprinklers each in 2 of my sections.

Increasing pressure does NOT solve inadequate flow! Please review the
chat from RB and calculate flow demand.
http://rainbird.com/landscape/produc...hart_12MPR.htm
you've created a misting system!!!

At 30PSI if all were half sprays you'd have a 20GPM demand. I'm
approximating and not taking into account friction loss etc.

It would be very difficult to add more
sections.

Not to bad, what you need to add is another valve.....


Have you confirmed head to head coverage?
There are heads within 11-12' of the head with the dry spot....sorry
to repeat, but it's another one of the MOST likely problems with
installation! (I have seen both flow and distribution uniformity
problems)

I am using the better Rainbird sprinklers -- not the Home Depot
version.
What would be the best approach?

Congratulations, most don't realize that HD sells crap!!!

a. Reduce the pressure? If so, what to?

Optimum charted pressure is 30PSI
http://rainbird.com/landscape/produc...hart_12MPR.htm
1899 series heads are capable of 70PSI but are foggers at that
pressure even with adequate flow!

b. Change the sprinkler nozzles? If so, what to?

Here our calciferous high dissolved solids level in city water DOES
distort spry nozzles after a few years.
c. Something else.
Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant
a
pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold




Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a
pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold

I give up, why the **** would any idiot suggest converting to rotors!
You did a shitty job on the installation...I gave you all the
solutions you need.....follow the specifications for the heads you
installed...sheesh!

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 05:31:55 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

Thanks!

You made some good suggestions.

I have some piping that is class 200 (or 100), and I have had horrible
experience with it breaking every time I touch it with a shovel. I replace
it with class 40 whenever I can.

I don't think I can convert to the rotors, but I will look into it. It
wouldn't make sense unless I could do my whole lawn that way, and I'm not
sure the shape of the lawn will permit that.

I will also look into the pressure-reducing screens, and reduce the
spray diameter wherever I can.

You gave me some good homework, but I'm sure there is a solution in it.

"Ulrich M. Reich" wrote in message
news:xrfKe.9033$0d.6950@trnddc02...
Ideally what you are trying to do is to get an even spray from one head to
the next. If you have too many heads on a zone, too much water going
through the nozzles, your pressure may drop just enough not to reach the
next head to it.
A 15' half circle nozzle uses about 1.8 gallons per minute at 30 psi. (12'
nozzles do about 1.3 gal. per minute at 30 psi) If you have 22 gallons
per
minute available you should use a max of 10 - 11 heads with 15' nozzles,
and
as many as 15 - 16 heads.. Anything above that and you suffer the
consequences of inadequate coverage.
One thing you may be able to do is make sure that all of the nozzles are
the
same size, all 12' nozzles. Then there are pressure compensating screens
available that will limit the amount of water coming through and
increasing
the pressure a little bit.
Another thing to keep in mind is that not all 3/4" pipe is made alike.
Schedule 40 is thicker walled than class 200. Class 200 is a thinner
walled
pipe and as such will allow a little bit more water to come through
allowing
for more heads.
Finally, depending on the shape and the size of the lawn areas you may be
able to change from a spray head to a stream rotor. I have successfully
used Rainbird 3500 series rotors. At 25 psi and a nozzle size of 2.0 you
only use 1.4 gallons per minute, thus your pressure increases by using
fewer
heads. The down turn is that your precipitation rate also drops
dramatically. To get the same amount of water to cover the larger area
you
will need to water longer. In general the sprinklers will run from 1/2 to
3/4 hour per watering. But with your trusty tuna can you can dial in the
watering time pretty accurately.

Good luck



"G Burton" wrote in message
news
Thanks again! I will do more investigation about the regulator. I
may
have an obstruction coming into the house. The inlet pipe is 3/4", so I
don't think I should be having this pressure problem. I am clueless now
too, but I will get it figured out.

I think I allowed myself to get distracted by the regulator. It's a
problem that should be addressed (or at least understood), and I will do
that. However the fact remains that when the sprinklers are on, I have
30
psi into the solenoid. Obviously I have no pressure regulation, but I
have
30 psi. I know I don't have overpressure at the time the sprinklers are
operating because the heads don't pop completely up if I reduce the
pressure
any more. Therefore, I think you still can help me -- in spite of my
goofy
regulator..

What would cause the coverage gaps about 3 ft from the sprinkler
heads?
I have 12 and 15 foot nozzles? The spray looks normal.


"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 18:57:53 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

Please bear with me just a little bit longer.

I put a pressure meter between my pressure regulator and my
solenoid
valves. If I set the pressure to 30 psi when the sprinkers are on,
then
turn the sprinklers off, the meter jumps up to 65 psi and stays there.
I
am
thinking that my pressure regulator is bad. My pressure regulator is a
Watts 35B, but I can't find flow rate information on it.

I'm clueless here...but here's what watts writes...
http://www.wattsreg.com/pdf/1915088.pdf

Troubleshooting
High System Pressure
If the downstream system pressure is higher than the set
pressure under no flow conditions, the cause could be thermal
expansion, pressure creep or dirt/debris on the seat.
Thermal expansion occurs whenever water is heated in a
closed system. The system is closed when supply pressure
exceeds 150psi, or a check valve or backflow preventer is
installed in the supply piping.
You must make provisions for pressure relief protection of your
plumbing system and components. The use of a relief valve
such as the Watts 530C, BRV, Governor 80, or 3L or potable
water expansion tank such as the Watts DET,
PLT or DETA may be required.
To determine if this is the result of thermal
expansion, try briefly opening the cold water tap.
If the increased pressure is caused by thermal
expansion, the pressure will immediately be
relieved and the system will return to the set
pressure. Watts offers a pressure test
gauge, model 276H300 to assist you in
determining if you have high water pressure.
The 276H300 when attached to a
hose bibb registers the highest pressure
reading over the period of time it is left on
the system.
USA: 815 Chestnut St., No.Andover, MA 01845-6098;www.wattsreg.com
Canada: 5435 North Service Rd., Burlington, ONT. L7L
5H7;www.wattscanada.ca
1. Ordering Code 3. Type Number
2. Size of Valve 4. Model shown on Nameplate
Watts 276H300

Does it sound like a bad regulator to you?

Where can I find flow rate information on it.

Simple google search....
http://www.americanbackflow.com/cata.../watts.35b.pdf


BTW, I have 17 heads, not 16. The total flow should be about 22
GPM
per
the RB chart.

"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 04:53:34 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

The wind made a difference, and it appears that you were
absolutely
right. In 12 min of sprinkling, I collected .132" at the bad spot
and
.305"
in the good spot.

Several of the bad spots are about 3 ft from a 12 ft spray
nozzle,
which
makes me suspect overspraying. I just measured my pressure, and got
62
psi
upstream of the solenoids

I set the pressure high because I have 16
sprinklers each in 2 of my sections.

Increasing pressure does NOT solve inadequate flow! Please review the
chat from RB and calculate flow demand.
http://rainbird.com/landscape/produc...hart_12MPR.htm
you've created a misting system!!!

At 30PSI if all were half sprays you'd have a 20GPM demand. I'm
approximating and not taking into account friction loss etc.

It would be very difficult to add more
sections.

Not to bad, what you need to add is another valve.....


Have you confirmed head to head coverage?
There are heads within 11-12' of the head with the dry spot....sorry
to repeat, but it's another one of the MOST likely problems with
installation! (I have seen both flow and distribution uniformity
problems)

I am using the better Rainbird sprinklers -- not the Home Depot
version.
What would be the best approach?

Congratulations, most don't realize that HD sells crap!!!

a. Reduce the pressure? If so, what to?

Optimum charted pressure is 30PSI
http://rainbird.com/landscape/produc...hart_12MPR.htm
1899 series heads are capable of 70PSI but are foggers at that
pressure even with adequate flow!

b. Change the sprinkler nozzles? If so, what to?

Here our calciferous high dissolved solids level in city water DOES
distort spry nozzles after a few years.
c. Something else.
Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant
a
pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold




Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a
pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold








Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold

That lowers the level!

I don't think the rotors will work for me, but I disagree that Ulrich is
an idiot. I intend to check out all his ideas, and I appreciate his help
very much.

I'm sorry I bothered you. I hope you find peace.


"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
...

I give up, why the **** would any idiot suggest converting to rotors!
You did a shitty job on the installation...I gave you all the
solutions you need.....follow the specifications for the heads you
installed...sheesh!

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 05:31:55 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

Thanks!

You made some good suggestions.

I have some piping that is class 200 (or 100), and I have had horrible
experience with it breaking every time I touch it with a shovel. I
replace
it with class 40 whenever I can.

I don't think I can convert to the rotors, but I will look into it.
It
wouldn't make sense unless I could do my whole lawn that way, and I'm not
sure the shape of the lawn will permit that.

I will also look into the pressure-reducing screens, and reduce the
spray diameter wherever I can.

You gave me some good homework, but I'm sure there is a solution in
it.

"Ulrich M. Reich" wrote in message
news:xrfKe.9033$0d.6950@trnddc02...
Ideally what you are trying to do is to get an even spray from one head
to
the next. If you have too many heads on a zone, too much water going
through the nozzles, your pressure may drop just enough not to reach the
next head to it.
A 15' half circle nozzle uses about 1.8 gallons per minute at 30 psi.
(12'
nozzles do about 1.3 gal. per minute at 30 psi) If you have 22 gallons
per
minute available you should use a max of 10 - 11 heads with 15' nozzles,
and
as many as 15 - 16 heads.. Anything above that and you suffer the
consequences of inadequate coverage.
One thing you may be able to do is make sure that all of the nozzles are
the
same size, all 12' nozzles. Then there are pressure compensating
screens
available that will limit the amount of water coming through and
increasing
the pressure a little bit.
Another thing to keep in mind is that not all 3/4" pipe is made alike.
Schedule 40 is thicker walled than class 200. Class 200 is a thinner
walled
pipe and as such will allow a little bit more water to come through
allowing
for more heads.
Finally, depending on the shape and the size of the lawn areas you may
be
able to change from a spray head to a stream rotor. I have successfully
used Rainbird 3500 series rotors. At 25 psi and a nozzle size of 2.0
you
only use 1.4 gallons per minute, thus your pressure increases by using
fewer
heads. The down turn is that your precipitation rate also drops
dramatically. To get the same amount of water to cover the larger area
you
will need to water longer. In general the sprinklers will run from 1/2
to
3/4 hour per watering. But with your trusty tuna can you can dial in
the
watering time pretty accurately.

Good luck



"G Burton" wrote in message
news Thanks again! I will do more investigation about the regulator. I
may
have an obstruction coming into the house. The inlet pipe is 3/4", so
I
don't think I should be having this pressure problem. I am clueless
now
too, but I will get it figured out.

I think I allowed myself to get distracted by the regulator. It's
a
problem that should be addressed (or at least understood), and I will
do
that. However the fact remains that when the sprinklers are on, I have
30
psi into the solenoid. Obviously I have no pressure regulation, but I
have
30 psi. I know I don't have overpressure at the time the sprinklers
are
operating because the heads don't pop completely up if I reduce the
pressure
any more. Therefore, I think you still can help me -- in spite of my
goofy
regulator..

What would cause the coverage gaps about 3 ft from the sprinkler
heads?
I have 12 and 15 foot nozzles? The spray looks normal.


"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 18:57:53 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

Please bear with me just a little bit longer.

I put a pressure meter between my pressure regulator and my
solenoid
valves. If I set the pressure to 30 psi when the sprinkers are on,
then
turn the sprinklers off, the meter jumps up to 65 psi and stays
there.
I
am
thinking that my pressure regulator is bad. My pressure regulator is
a
Watts 35B, but I can't find flow rate information on it.

I'm clueless here...but here's what watts writes...
http://www.wattsreg.com/pdf/1915088.pdf

Troubleshooting
High System Pressure
If the downstream system pressure is higher than the set
pressure under no flow conditions, the cause could be thermal
expansion, pressure creep or dirt/debris on the seat.
Thermal expansion occurs whenever water is heated in a
closed system. The system is closed when supply pressure
exceeds 150psi, or a check valve or backflow preventer is
installed in the supply piping.
You must make provisions for pressure relief protection of your
plumbing system and components. The use of a relief valve
such as the Watts 530C, BRV, Governor 80, or 3L or potable
water expansion tank such as the Watts DET,
PLT or DETA may be required.
To determine if this is the result of thermal
expansion, try briefly opening the cold water tap.
If the increased pressure is caused by thermal
expansion, the pressure will immediately be
relieved and the system will return to the set
pressure. Watts offers a pressure test
gauge, model 276H300 to assist you in
determining if you have high water pressure.
The 276H300 when attached to a
hose bibb registers the highest pressure
reading over the period of time it is left on
the system.
USA: 815 Chestnut St., No.Andover, MA 01845-6098;www.wattsreg.com
Canada: 5435 North Service Rd., Burlington, ONT. L7L
5H7;www.wattscanada.ca
1. Ordering Code 3. Type Number
2. Size of Valve 4. Model shown on Nameplate
Watts 276H300

Does it sound like a bad regulator to you?

Where can I find flow rate information on it.

Simple google search....
http://www.americanbackflow.com/cata.../watts.35b.pdf


BTW, I have 17 heads, not 16. The total flow should be about 22
GPM
per
the RB chart.

"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 04:53:34 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

The wind made a difference, and it appears that you were
absolutely
right. In 12 min of sprinkling, I collected .132" at the bad spot
and
.305"
in the good spot.

Several of the bad spots are about 3 ft from a 12 ft spray
nozzle,
which
makes me suspect overspraying. I just measured my pressure, and
got
62
psi
upstream of the solenoids

I set the pressure high because I have 16
sprinklers each in 2 of my sections.

Increasing pressure does NOT solve inadequate flow! Please review
the
chat from RB and calculate flow demand.
http://rainbird.com/landscape/produc...hart_12MPR.htm
you've created a misting system!!!

At 30PSI if all were half sprays you'd have a 20GPM demand. I'm
approximating and not taking into account friction loss etc.

It would be very difficult to add more
sections.

Not to bad, what you need to add is another valve.....


Have you confirmed head to head coverage?
There are heads within 11-12' of the head with the dry
spot....sorry
to repeat, but it's another one of the MOST likely problems with
installation! (I have seen both flow and distribution uniformity
problems)

I am using the better Rainbird sprinklers -- not the Home Depot
version.
What would be the best approach?

Congratulations, most don't realize that HD sells crap!!!

a. Reduce the pressure? If so, what to?

Optimum charted pressure is 30PSI
http://rainbird.com/landscape/produc...hart_12MPR.htm
1899 series heads are capable of 70PSI but are foggers at that
pressure even with adequate flow!

b. Change the sprinkler nozzles? If so, what to?

Here our calciferous high dissolved solids level in city water DOES
distort spry nozzles after a few years.
c. Something else.
Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To
plant
a
pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold




Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant
a
pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold








Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a
pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold

Since you seem to the know it all, but trust me do not to have all of the
answers. Too many narrow minded people have to resort to foul language to
make their point, and it was only a suggestion, not a solution. You
obviously don't use rotors otherwise you would know a little bit more about
their applications. While I agree, they are not the head of choice for
every application, but they do work and if their are faults built into the
system, they can overcome some of those problems.


"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
...

I give up, why the **** would any idiot suggest converting to rotors!
You did a shitty job on the installation...I gave you all the
solutions you need.....follow the specifications for the heads you
installed...sheesh!

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 05:31:55 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

Thanks!

You made some good suggestions.

I have some piping that is class 200 (or 100), and I have had
horrible
experience with it breaking every time I touch it with a shovel. I
replace
it with class 40 whenever I can.

I don't think I can convert to the rotors, but I will look into it.
It
wouldn't make sense unless I could do my whole lawn that way, and I'm not
sure the shape of the lawn will permit that.

I will also look into the pressure-reducing screens, and reduce the
spray diameter wherever I can.

You gave me some good homework, but I'm sure there is a solution in
it.

"Ulrich M. Reich" wrote in message
news:xrfKe.9033$0d.6950@trnddc02...
Ideally what you are trying to do is to get an even spray from one head
to
the next. If you have too many heads on a zone, too much water going
through the nozzles, your pressure may drop just enough not to reach
the
next head to it.
A 15' half circle nozzle uses about 1.8 gallons per minute at 30 psi.
(12'
nozzles do about 1.3 gal. per minute at 30 psi) If you have 22 gallons
per
minute available you should use a max of 10 - 11 heads with 15'
nozzles,
and
as many as 15 - 16 heads.. Anything above that and you suffer the
consequences of inadequate coverage.
One thing you may be able to do is make sure that all of the nozzles
are
the
same size, all 12' nozzles. Then there are pressure compensating
screens
available that will limit the amount of water coming through and
increasing
the pressure a little bit.
Another thing to keep in mind is that not all 3/4" pipe is made alike.
Schedule 40 is thicker walled than class 200. Class 200 is a thinner
walled
pipe and as such will allow a little bit more water to come through
allowing
for more heads.
Finally, depending on the shape and the size of the lawn areas you may
be
able to change from a spray head to a stream rotor. I have
successfully
used Rainbird 3500 series rotors. At 25 psi and a nozzle size of 2.0
you
only use 1.4 gallons per minute, thus your pressure increases by using
fewer
heads. The down turn is that your precipitation rate also drops
dramatically. To get the same amount of water to cover the larger area
you
will need to water longer. In general the sprinklers will run from 1/2
to
3/4 hour per watering. But with your trusty tuna can you can dial in
the
watering time pretty accurately.

Good luck



"G Burton" wrote in message
news Thanks again! I will do more investigation about the regulator.
I
may
have an obstruction coming into the house. The inlet pipe is 3/4", so
I
don't think I should be having this pressure problem. I am clueless
now
too, but I will get it figured out.

I think I allowed myself to get distracted by the regulator. It's
a
problem that should be addressed (or at least understood), and I will
do
that. However the fact remains that when the sprinklers are on, I
have
30
psi into the solenoid. Obviously I have no pressure regulation, but I
have
30 psi. I know I don't have overpressure at the time the sprinklers
are
operating because the heads don't pop completely up if I reduce the
pressure
any more. Therefore, I think you still can help me -- in spite of my
goofy
regulator..

What would cause the coverage gaps about 3 ft from the sprinkler
heads?
I have 12 and 15 foot nozzles? The spray looks normal.


"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 18:57:53 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

Please bear with me just a little bit longer.

I put a pressure meter between my pressure regulator and my
solenoid
valves. If I set the pressure to 30 psi when the sprinkers are on,
then
turn the sprinklers off, the meter jumps up to 65 psi and stays
there.
I
am
thinking that my pressure regulator is bad. My pressure regulator
is a
Watts 35B, but I can't find flow rate information on it.

I'm clueless here...but here's what watts writes...
http://www.wattsreg.com/pdf/1915088.pdf

Troubleshooting
High System Pressure
If the downstream system pressure is higher than the set
pressure under no flow conditions, the cause could be thermal
expansion, pressure creep or dirt/debris on the seat.
Thermal expansion occurs whenever water is heated in a
closed system. The system is closed when supply pressure
exceeds 150psi, or a check valve or backflow preventer is
installed in the supply piping.
You must make provisions for pressure relief protection of your
plumbing system and components. The use of a relief valve
such as the Watts 530C, BRV, Governor 80, or 3L or potable
water expansion tank such as the Watts DET,
PLT or DETA may be required.
To determine if this is the result of thermal
expansion, try briefly opening the cold water tap.
If the increased pressure is caused by thermal
expansion, the pressure will immediately be
relieved and the system will return to the set
pressure. Watts offers a pressure test
gauge, model 276H300 to assist you in
determining if you have high water pressure.
The 276H300 when attached to a
hose bibb registers the highest pressure
reading over the period of time it is left on
the system.
USA: 815 Chestnut St., No.Andover, MA 01845-6098;www.wattsreg.com
Canada: 5435 North Service Rd., Burlington, ONT. L7L
5H7;www.wattscanada.ca
1. Ordering Code 3. Type Number
2. Size of Valve 4. Model shown on Nameplate
Watts 276H300

Does it sound like a bad regulator to you?

Where can I find flow rate information on it.

Simple google search....
http://www.americanbackflow.com/cata.../watts.35b.pdf


BTW, I have 17 heads, not 16. The total flow should be about 22
GPM
per
the RB chart.

"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 04:53:34 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

The wind made a difference, and it appears that you were
absolutely
right. In 12 min of sprinkling, I collected .132" at the bad spot
and
.305"
in the good spot.

Several of the bad spots are about 3 ft from a 12 ft spray
nozzle,
which
makes me suspect overspraying. I just measured my pressure, and
got
62
psi
upstream of the solenoids

I set the pressure high because I have 16
sprinklers each in 2 of my sections.

Increasing pressure does NOT solve inadequate flow! Please review
the
chat from RB and calculate flow demand.
http://rainbird.com/landscape/produc...hart_12MPR.htm
you've created a misting system!!!

At 30PSI if all were half sprays you'd have a 20GPM demand. I'm
approximating and not taking into account friction loss etc.

It would be very difficult to add more
sections.

Not to bad, what you need to add is another valve.....


Have you confirmed head to head coverage?
There are heads within 11-12' of the head with the dry
spot....sorry
to repeat, but it's another one of the MOST likely problems with
installation! (I have seen both flow and distribution uniformity
problems)

I am using the better Rainbird sprinklers -- not the Home
Depot
version.
What would be the best approach?

Congratulations, most don't realize that HD sells crap!!!

a. Reduce the pressure? If so, what to?

Optimum charted pressure is 30PSI
http://rainbird.com/landscape/produc...hart_12MPR.htm
1899 series heads are capable of 70PSI but are foggers at that
pressure even with adequate flow!

b. Change the sprinkler nozzles? If so, what to?

Here our calciferous high dissolved solids level in city water
DOES
distort spry nozzles after a few years.
c. Something else.
Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To
plant
a
pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold




Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To
plant a
pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold








Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a
pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold

Thanks Gary,

"G Burton" wrote in message
...
That lowers the level!

I don't think the rotors will work for me, but I disagree that Ulrich
is
an idiot. I intend to check out all his ideas, and I appreciate his help
very much.

I'm sorry I bothered you. I hope you find peace.


"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
...

I give up, why the **** would any idiot suggest converting to rotors!
You did a shitty job on the installation...I gave you all the
solutions you need.....follow the specifications for the heads you
installed...sheesh!

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 05:31:55 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

Thanks!

You made some good suggestions.

I have some piping that is class 200 (or 100), and I have had
horrible
experience with it breaking every time I touch it with a shovel. I
replace
it with class 40 whenever I can.

I don't think I can convert to the rotors, but I will look into it.
It
wouldn't make sense unless I could do my whole lawn that way, and I'm
not
sure the shape of the lawn will permit that.

I will also look into the pressure-reducing screens, and reduce the
spray diameter wherever I can.

You gave me some good homework, but I'm sure there is a solution in
it.

"Ulrich M. Reich" wrote in message
news:xrfKe.9033$0d.6950@trnddc02...
Ideally what you are trying to do is to get an even spray from one
head
to
the next. If you have too many heads on a zone, too much water going
through the nozzles, your pressure may drop just enough not to reach
the
next head to it.
A 15' half circle nozzle uses about 1.8 gallons per minute at 30 psi.
(12'
nozzles do about 1.3 gal. per minute at 30 psi) If you have 22
gallons
per
minute available you should use a max of 10 - 11 heads with 15'
nozzles,
and
as many as 15 - 16 heads.. Anything above that and you suffer the
consequences of inadequate coverage.
One thing you may be able to do is make sure that all of the nozzles
are
the
same size, all 12' nozzles. Then there are pressure compensating
screens
available that will limit the amount of water coming through and
increasing
the pressure a little bit.
Another thing to keep in mind is that not all 3/4" pipe is made alike.
Schedule 40 is thicker walled than class 200. Class 200 is a thinner
walled
pipe and as such will allow a little bit more water to come through
allowing
for more heads.
Finally, depending on the shape and the size of the lawn areas you may
be
able to change from a spray head to a stream rotor. I have
successfully
used Rainbird 3500 series rotors. At 25 psi and a nozzle size of 2.0
you
only use 1.4 gallons per minute, thus your pressure increases by using
fewer
heads. The down turn is that your precipitation rate also drops
dramatically. To get the same amount of water to cover the larger
area
you
will need to water longer. In general the sprinklers will run from
1/2
to
3/4 hour per watering. But with your trusty tuna can you can dial in
the
watering time pretty accurately.

Good luck



"G Burton" wrote in message
news Thanks again! I will do more investigation about the regulator.
I
may
have an obstruction coming into the house. The inlet pipe is 3/4",
so
I
don't think I should be having this pressure problem. I am clueless
now
too, but I will get it figured out.

I think I allowed myself to get distracted by the regulator.
It's
a
problem that should be addressed (or at least understood), and I will
do
that. However the fact remains that when the sprinklers are on, I
have
30
psi into the solenoid. Obviously I have no pressure regulation, but
I
have
30 psi. I know I don't have overpressure at the time the sprinklers
are
operating because the heads don't pop completely up if I reduce the
pressure
any more. Therefore, I think you still can help me -- in spite of my
goofy
regulator..

What would cause the coverage gaps about 3 ft from the sprinkler
heads?
I have 12 and 15 foot nozzles? The spray looks normal.


"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 18:57:53 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

Please bear with me just a little bit longer.

I put a pressure meter between my pressure regulator and my
solenoid
valves. If I set the pressure to 30 psi when the sprinkers are on,
then
turn the sprinklers off, the meter jumps up to 65 psi and stays
there.
I
am
thinking that my pressure regulator is bad. My pressure regulator
is
a
Watts 35B, but I can't find flow rate information on it.

I'm clueless here...but here's what watts writes...
http://www.wattsreg.com/pdf/1915088.pdf

Troubleshooting
High System Pressure
If the downstream system pressure is higher than the set
pressure under no flow conditions, the cause could be thermal
expansion, pressure creep or dirt/debris on the seat.
Thermal expansion occurs whenever water is heated in a
closed system. The system is closed when supply pressure
exceeds 150psi, or a check valve or backflow preventer is
installed in the supply piping.
You must make provisions for pressure relief protection of your
plumbing system and components. The use of a relief valve
such as the Watts 530C, BRV, Governor 80, or 3L or potable
water expansion tank such as the Watts DET,
PLT or DETA may be required.
To determine if this is the result of thermal
expansion, try briefly opening the cold water tap.
If the increased pressure is caused by thermal
expansion, the pressure will immediately be
relieved and the system will return to the set
pressure. Watts offers a pressure test
gauge, model 276H300 to assist you in
determining if you have high water pressure.
The 276H300 when attached to a
hose bibb registers the highest pressure
reading over the period of time it is left on
the system.
USA: 815 Chestnut St., No.Andover, MA 01845-6098;www.wattsreg.com
Canada: 5435 North Service Rd., Burlington, ONT. L7L
5H7;www.wattscanada.ca
1. Ordering Code 3. Type Number
2. Size of Valve 4. Model shown on Nameplate
Watts 276H300

Does it sound like a bad regulator to you?

Where can I find flow rate information on it.

Simple google search....
http://www.americanbackflow.com/cata.../watts.35b.pdf


BTW, I have 17 heads, not 16. The total flow should be about
22
GPM
per
the RB chart.

"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 04:53:34 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

The wind made a difference, and it appears that you were
absolutely
right. In 12 min of sprinkling, I collected .132" at the bad
spot
and
.305"
in the good spot.

Several of the bad spots are about 3 ft from a 12 ft spray
nozzle,
which
makes me suspect overspraying. I just measured my pressure, and
got
62
psi
upstream of the solenoids

I set the pressure high because I have 16
sprinklers each in 2 of my sections.

Increasing pressure does NOT solve inadequate flow! Please review
the
chat from RB and calculate flow demand.
http://rainbird.com/landscape/produc...hart_12MPR.htm
you've created a misting system!!!

At 30PSI if all were half sprays you'd have a 20GPM demand. I'm
approximating and not taking into account friction loss etc.

It would be very difficult to add more
sections.

Not to bad, what you need to add is another valve.....


Have you confirmed head to head coverage?
There are heads within 11-12' of the head with the dry
spot....sorry
to repeat, but it's another one of the MOST likely problems with
installation! (I have seen both flow and distribution uniformity
problems)

I am using the better Rainbird sprinklers -- not the Home
Depot
version.
What would be the best approach?

Congratulations, most don't realize that HD sells crap!!!

a. Reduce the pressure? If so, what to?

Optimum charted pressure is 30PSI
http://rainbird.com/landscape/produc...hart_12MPR.htm
1899 series heads are capable of 70PSI but are foggers at that
pressure even with adequate flow!

b. Change the sprinkler nozzles? If so, what to?

Here our calciferous high dissolved solids level in city water
DOES
distort spry nozzles after a few years.
c. Something else.
Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To
plant
a
pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold




Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To
plant
a
pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold








Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a
pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:01:38 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

That lowers the level!

Naw the level was lowered earlier in the thread....by not paying
attention

I don't think the rotors will work for me, but I disagree that Ulrich is
an idiot. I intend to check out all his ideas, and I appreciate his help
very much.

I've sure Ulrich has many good ideas, but he should reread the thread
more carefully before making as general a recommendation. Converting
to rotors from pop ups for someone who hasn't been able to understand
clear concepts on installation of pop ups is not solid advise!

I'm sorry I bothered you. I hope you find peace.

Actually Gary I had been enjoying being helpful, and found much peace
15 years ago when I stopped installing irrigation system on
residential properties. If you keep looking for opinions you'll soon
lose sight of the FACTS of your situation and get it even more addles
up!




Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 01:55:45 GMT, "Ulrich M. Reich"
wrote:

Since you seem to the know it all, but trust me do not to have all of the
answers. Too many narrow minded people have to resort to foul language to
make their point, and it was only a suggestion, not a solution. You
obviously don't use rotors otherwise you would know a little bit more about
their applications.

Reread the thread, Gary has difficulty understanding his problem with
popup's, handing him another set of parameters with as general a
recommendation as you passed out is really pretty "narrow minded".

While I agree, they are not the head of choice for
every application, but they do work and if their are faults built into the
system, they can overcome some of those problems.

And create a whole new set.....please read where he found adding a
simple valve to difficult!

BTW I've installed rotors and regularly use them in designs. It would
have been far more useful, for example, to recommend a specific
solution suited to Gary's displayed level of understanding. Like
recommending he consider converting the 1800 heads to rotors using MP
rotators.....

http://www.mprotator.com/

As to language and name calling I apologize for spewing my frustration
when you obviously where not deserving of it!



Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold