I have dry spots in the lawn. More watering would overwater the rest of the lawn. Spot watering does not work well with my work schedule. The dry spots are about 3 feet from sprinker heads, so it may be that much of the spray goes over them, but that doesn't seem to be a problem with other sprinker heads. I don't see how I can manipulate the sprinkers to improve the spray.

I have a way of dealing with the dry spots, but I am an amature, and I'm not sure my method is the best -- or is even working, for that matter.. What I have done in the past is pour some spongy soil on top of the dry spots in the expectation that it will retain the moisture. I have used Kellogs Topper to pour directly on top of the dry spots. It seems to work, but I'm not sure. I have seen improvement in some spots, but not the worst ones. That may be because I didn't put enough on.

Is this a good plan?

Is there a better plan?

Background:
I confirmed that it is dry spots by pushing a screwdriver into it. Screwdriver only goes in about 1.5" in the dry spots, but I can push it in to most of my lawn fairly easily to about 6"
--
Loudette Burton

G Burton wrote:


Is there a better plan?

yes. don't post in a non-binary group using html.

There are a couple of things I forgot to mention.

I live in Western Garden zone 14

My soil is clay with a wimply layer of topsoil.

I have used Gypsom (in the form of Soil Buster) in the past, and (like the Kellogs Topper) I don't know how much it is helping. I would like comments on that too. I now have some pure Gypsom instead of the Soil Buster.

I will monitor this posting for a while to see what I can learn before I do anything, but unless I get some better ideas I plan to:

1) Put down more gypsom
2) Put down more Kellog's Topper.
"G Burton" wrote in message ...
I have dry spots in the lawn. More watering would overwater the rest of the lawn. Spot watering does not work well with my work schedule. The dry spots are about 3 feet from sprinker heads, so it may be that much of the spray goes over them, but that doesn't seem to be a problem with other sprinker heads. I don't see how I can manipulate the sprinkers to improve the spray.

I have a way of dealing with the dry spots, but I am an amature, and I'm not sure my method is the best -- or is even working, for that matter.. What I have done in the past is pour some spongy soil on top of the dry spots in the expectation that it will retain the moisture. I have used Kellogs Topper to pour directly on top of the dry spots. It seems to work, but I'm not sure. I have seen improvement in some spots, but not the worst ones. That may be because I didn't put enough on.

Is this a good plan?

Is there a better plan?

Background:
I confirmed that it is dry spots by pushing a screwdriver into it. Screwdriver only goes in about 1.5" in the dry spots, but I can push it in to most of my lawn fairly easily to about 6"
--
Loudette Burton

Sprinklers work by "heads to head coverage" Meaning the next head
over from the dry spot is providing the water !!!

Check your nozzle sizing. For example if the nozzles are 12' they
should not be spaced more than 11-12 feet apart!


On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 12:40:12 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

I have dry spots in the lawn. More watering would overwater the rest of the lawn. Spot watering does not work well with my work schedule. The dry spots are about 3 feet from sprinker heads, so it may be that much of the spray goes over them, but that doesn't seem to be a problem with other sprinker heads. I don't see how I can manipulate the sprinkers to improve the spray.

I have a way of dealing with the dry spots, but I am an amature, and I'm not sure my method is the best -- or is even working, for that matter.. What I have done in the past is pour some spongy soil on top of the dry spots in the expectation that it will retain the moisture. I have used Kellogs Topper to pour directly on top of the dry spots. It seems to work, but I'm not sure. I have seen improvement in some spots, but not the worst ones. That may be because I didn't put enough on.

Is this a good plan?

Is there a better plan?

Background:
I confirmed that it is dry spots by pushing a screwdriver into it. Screwdriver only goes in about 1.5" in the dry spots, but I can push it in to most of my lawn fairly easily to about 6"

Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold

I've checked that, and I am within spec. In fact, the problem is just a
few feet from the head.


"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
...
Sprinklers work by "heads to head coverage" Meaning the next head
over from the dry spot is providing the water !!!

Check your nozzle sizing. For example if the nozzles are 12' they
should not be spaced more than 11-12 feet apart!


On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 12:40:12 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

I have dry spots in the lawn. More watering would overwater the rest
of the lawn. Spot watering does not work well with my work schedule.
The dry spots are about 3 feet from sprinker heads, so it may be that
much of the spray goes over them, but that doesn't seem to be a problem
with other sprinker heads. I don't see how I can manipulate the
sprinkers to improve the spray.

I have a way of dealing with the dry spots, but I am an amature, and
I'm not sure my method is the best -- or is even working, for that
matter.. What I have done in the past is pour some spongy soil on top of
the dry spots in the expectation that it will retain the moisture. I
have used Kellogs Topper to pour directly on top of the dry spots. It
seems to work, but I'm not sure. I have seen improvement in some spots,
but not the worst ones. That may be because I didn't put enough on.

Is this a good plan?

Is there a better plan?

Background:
I confirmed that it is dry spots by pushing a screwdriver into it.
Screwdriver only goes in about 1.5" in the dry spots, but I can push it
in to most of my lawn fairly easily to about 6"

Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a
pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold

What a ****ing mess.


"G Burton" wrote:
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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--
http://NewsReader.Com/

On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 13:09:59 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

I've checked that, and I am within spec. In fact, the problem is just a
few feet from the head.


Once more....you have problem with uniformity. After hundreds of
homeowners consultations over 20 years I'm stilling willing to bet you
have a coverage and not a soil problem!!! Put some tuna cans out in
brown and green spots, run your irrigation for 5 minutes and measure
depth then report back!
Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold

I only had 2 tuna cans, but I ran the experiment twice.

The first time, there wes no discernable difference in depth. I put one
can in the dryest spot and another in one of the greener spotts about 2 ft
away. I used the depth gage on my verniers, and measured 3 places in each
can. In both cans, I measured .120-.135 in in 3 places. I didn't take and
average, because the range was within the margin of measuring error.

The second time, I ran the sprinklers for 10 minutes instead of 5. I
compared another "dryest spot" (where the screwdriver stops at about 1.5")
with one of the greenest spots in the lawn only about 2 ft away and where
the screwdriver goes in 6" easily. I took the average of 4 readings in both
cases. In the dryest spot, the average was .263 and the average in the
greenest spot was .276.

I did this in the afternoon, and there is always wind here in the
afternoon, so that could be goofing up the data. The wind today is mild,
but it's here. I water at 4 am, when there is seldom wind. I will repeat
the measurement after tomorrow's first (12 minute) watering, with the cans
in the same place.

In the meantime, I would sure love to hear anything you have to say on
using gypsom and topper soil. You may have missed my second posting about
that. If so, please check my "More Info" posting.

"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 13:09:59 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

I've checked that, and I am within spec. In fact, the problem is just
a
few feet from the head.


Once more....you have problem with uniformity. After hundreds of
homeowners consultations over 20 years I'm stilling willing to bet you
have a coverage and not a soil problem!!! Put some tuna cans out in
brown and green spots, run your irrigation for 5 minutes and measure
depth then report back!
Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a
pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold

The wind made a difference, and it appears that you were absolutely
right. In 12 min of sprinkling, I collected .132" at the bad spot and .305"
in the good spot.

Several of the bad spots are about 3 ft from a 12 ft spray nozzle, which
makes me suspect overspraying. I just measured my pressure, and got 62 psi
upstream of the solenoids. I set the pressure high because I have 16
sprinklers each in 2 of my sections. It would be very difficult to add more
sections.

I am using the better Rainbird sprinklers -- not the Home Depot version.
What would be the best approach?

a. Reduce the pressure? If so, what to?
b. Change the sprinkler nozzles? If so, what to?
c. Something else.


"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 13:09:59 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

I've checked that, and I am within spec. In fact, the problem is just
a
few feet from the head.


Once more....you have problem with uniformity. After hundreds of
homeowners consultations over 20 years I'm stilling willing to bet you
have a coverage and not a soil problem!!! Put some tuna cans out in
brown and green spots, run your irrigation for 5 minutes and measure
depth then report back!
Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a
pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold

On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 04:53:34 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

The wind made a difference, and it appears that you were absolutely
right. In 12 min of sprinkling, I collected .132" at the bad spot and .305"
in the good spot.

Several of the bad spots are about 3 ft from a 12 ft spray nozzle, which
makes me suspect overspraying. I just measured my pressure, and got 62 psi
upstream of the solenoids

I set the pressure high because I have 16
sprinklers each in 2 of my sections.

Increasing pressure does NOT solve inadequate flow! Please review the
chat from RB and calculate flow demand.
http://rainbird.com/landscape/produc...hart_12MPR.htm
you've created a misting system!!!

At 30PSI if all were half sprays you'd have a 20GPM demand. I'm
approximating and not taking into account friction loss etc.

It would be very difficult to add more
sections.

Not to bad, what you need to add is another valve.....


Have you confirmed head to head coverage?
There are heads within 11-12' of the head with the dry spot....sorry
to repeat, but it's another one of the MOST likely problems with
installation! (I have seen both flow and distribution uniformity
problems)

I am using the better Rainbird sprinklers -- not the Home Depot version.
What would be the best approach?

Congratulations, most don't realize that HD sells crap!!!

a. Reduce the pressure? If so, what to?

Optimum charted pressure is 30PSI
http://rainbird.com/landscape/produc...hart_12MPR.htm
1899 series heads are capable of 70PSI but are foggers at that
pressure even with adequate flow!

b. Change the sprinkler nozzles? If so, what to?

Here our calciferous high dissolved solids level in city water DOES
distort spry nozzles after a few years.
c. Something else.
Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold

I still believe the head-to-head coverage is OK, but I will check it
again.

You have undoubtedly helped me a great deal, and I really appreciate it.

I now have all the information I need to get it right.

Thanks!!!

"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 04:53:34 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

The wind made a difference, and it appears that you were absolutely
right. In 12 min of sprinkling, I collected .132" at the bad spot and
.305"
in the good spot.

Several of the bad spots are about 3 ft from a 12 ft spray nozzle,
which
makes me suspect overspraying. I just measured my pressure, and got 62
psi
upstream of the solenoids

I set the pressure high because I have 16
sprinklers each in 2 of my sections.

Increasing pressure does NOT solve inadequate flow! Please review the
chat from RB and calculate flow demand.
http://rainbird.com/landscape/produc...hart_12MPR.htm
you've created a misting system!!!

At 30PSI if all were half sprays you'd have a 20GPM demand. I'm
approximating and not taking into account friction loss etc.

It would be very difficult to add more
sections.

Not to bad, what you need to add is another valve.....


Have you confirmed head to head coverage?
There are heads within 11-12' of the head with the dry spot....sorry
to repeat, but it's another one of the MOST likely problems with
installation! (I have seen both flow and distribution uniformity
problems)

I am using the better Rainbird sprinklers -- not the Home Depot
version.
What would be the best approach?

Congratulations, most don't realize that HD sells crap!!!

a. Reduce the pressure? If so, what to?

Optimum charted pressure is 30PSI
http://rainbird.com/landscape/produc...hart_12MPR.htm
1899 series heads are capable of 70PSI but are foggers at that
pressure even with adequate flow!

b. Change the sprinkler nozzles? If so, what to?

Here our calciferous high dissolved solids level in city water DOES
distort spry nozzles after a few years.
c. Something else.
Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a
pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold

Good job, Tom Jaszewski. Nice to know we have an irrigation guy on board.


"G Burton" wrote:
I still believe the head-to-head coverage is OK, but I will check it
again.

You have undoubtedly helped me a great deal, and I really appreciate
it.

I now have all the information I need to get it right.

Thanks!!!


--
http://NewsReader.Com/

Please bear with me just a little bit longer.

I put a pressure meter between my pressure regulator and my solenoid
valves. If I set the pressure to 30 psi when the sprinkers are on, then
turn the sprinklers off, the meter jumps up to 65 psi and stays there. I am
thinking that my pressure regulator is bad. My pressure regulator is a
Watts 35B, but I can't find flow rate information on it.

Does it sound like a bad regulator to you?

Where can I find flow rate information on it.

BTW, I have 17 heads, not 16. The total flow should be about 22 GPM per
the RB chart.

"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 04:53:34 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

The wind made a difference, and it appears that you were absolutely
right. In 12 min of sprinkling, I collected .132" at the bad spot and
.305"
in the good spot.

Several of the bad spots are about 3 ft from a 12 ft spray nozzle,
which
makes me suspect overspraying. I just measured my pressure, and got 62
psi
upstream of the solenoids

I set the pressure high because I have 16
sprinklers each in 2 of my sections.

Increasing pressure does NOT solve inadequate flow! Please review the
chat from RB and calculate flow demand.
http://rainbird.com/landscape/produc...hart_12MPR.htm
you've created a misting system!!!

At 30PSI if all were half sprays you'd have a 20GPM demand. I'm
approximating and not taking into account friction loss etc.

It would be very difficult to add more
sections.

Not to bad, what you need to add is another valve.....


Have you confirmed head to head coverage?
There are heads within 11-12' of the head with the dry spot....sorry
to repeat, but it's another one of the MOST likely problems with
installation! (I have seen both flow and distribution uniformity
problems)

I am using the better Rainbird sprinklers -- not the Home Depot
version.
What would be the best approach?

Congratulations, most don't realize that HD sells crap!!!

a. Reduce the pressure? If so, what to?

Optimum charted pressure is 30PSI
http://rainbird.com/landscape/produc...hart_12MPR.htm
1899 series heads are capable of 70PSI but are foggers at that
pressure even with adequate flow!

b. Change the sprinkler nozzles? If so, what to?

Here our calciferous high dissolved solids level in city water DOES
distort spry nozzles after a few years.
c. Something else.
Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a
pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold

On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 18:57:53 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

Please bear with me just a little bit longer.

I put a pressure meter between my pressure regulator and my solenoid
valves. If I set the pressure to 30 psi when the sprinkers are on, then
turn the sprinklers off, the meter jumps up to 65 psi and stays there. I am
thinking that my pressure regulator is bad. My pressure regulator is a
Watts 35B, but I can't find flow rate information on it.

I'm clueless here...but here's what watts writes...
http://www.wattsreg.com/pdf/1915088.pdf

Troubleshooting
High System Pressure
If the downstream system pressure is higher than the set
pressure under no flow conditions, the cause could be thermal
expansion, pressure creep or dirt/debris on the seat.
Thermal expansion occurs whenever water is heated in a
closed system. The system is closed when supply pressure
exceeds 150psi, or a check valve or backflow preventer is
installed in the supply piping.
You must make provisions for pressure relief protection of your
plumbing system and components. The use of a relief valve
such as the Watts 530C, BRV, Governor 80, or 3L or potable
water expansion tank such as the Watts DET,
PLT or DETA may be required.
To determine if this is the result of thermal
expansion, try briefly opening the cold water tap.
If the increased pressure is caused by thermal
expansion, the pressure will immediately be
relieved and the system will return to the set
pressure. Watts offers a pressure test
gauge, model 276H300 to assist you in
determining if you have high water pressure.
The 276H300 when attached to a
hose bibb registers the highest pressure
reading over the period of time it is left on
the system.
USA: 815 Chestnut St., No.Andover, MA 01845-6098;www.wattsreg.com
Canada: 5435 North Service Rd., Burlington, ONT. L7L
5H7;www.wattscanada.ca
1. Ordering Code 3. Type Number
2. Size of Valve 4. Model shown on Nameplate
Watts 276H300

Does it sound like a bad regulator to you?

Where can I find flow rate information on it.

Simple google search....
http://www.americanbackflow.com/cata.../watts.35b.pdf


BTW, I have 17 heads, not 16. The total flow should be about 22 GPM per
the RB chart.

"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 04:53:34 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

The wind made a difference, and it appears that you were absolutely
right. In 12 min of sprinkling, I collected .132" at the bad spot and
.305"
in the good spot.

Several of the bad spots are about 3 ft from a 12 ft spray nozzle,
which
makes me suspect overspraying. I just measured my pressure, and got 62
psi
upstream of the solenoids

I set the pressure high because I have 16
sprinklers each in 2 of my sections.

Increasing pressure does NOT solve inadequate flow! Please review the
chat from RB and calculate flow demand.
http://rainbird.com/landscape/produc...hart_12MPR.htm
you've created a misting system!!!

At 30PSI if all were half sprays you'd have a 20GPM demand. I'm
approximating and not taking into account friction loss etc.

It would be very difficult to add more
sections.

Not to bad, what you need to add is another valve.....


Have you confirmed head to head coverage?
There are heads within 11-12' of the head with the dry spot....sorry
to repeat, but it's another one of the MOST likely problems with
installation! (I have seen both flow and distribution uniformity
problems)

I am using the better Rainbird sprinklers -- not the Home Depot
version.
What would be the best approach?

Congratulations, most don't realize that HD sells crap!!!

a. Reduce the pressure? If so, what to?

Optimum charted pressure is 30PSI
http://rainbird.com/landscape/produc...hart_12MPR.htm
1899 series heads are capable of 70PSI but are foggers at that
pressure even with adequate flow!

b. Change the sprinkler nozzles? If so, what to?

Here our calciferous high dissolved solids level in city water DOES
distort spry nozzles after a few years.
c. Something else.
Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a
pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold




Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold

Thanks again! I will do more investigation about the regulator. I may
have an obstruction coming into the house. The inlet pipe is 3/4", so I
don't think I should be having this pressure problem. I am clueless now
too, but I will get it figured out.

I think I allowed myself to get distracted by the regulator. It's a
problem that should be addressed (or at least understood), and I will do
that. However the fact remains that when the sprinklers are on, I have 30
psi into the solenoid. Obviously I have no pressure regulation, but I have
30 psi. I know I don't have overpressure at the time the sprinklers are
operating because the heads don't pop completely up if I reduce the pressure
any more. Therefore, I think you still can help me -- in spite of my goofy
regulator..

What would cause the coverage gaps about 3 ft from the sprinkler heads?
I have 12 and 15 foot nozzles? The spray looks normal.


"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 18:57:53 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

Please bear with me just a little bit longer.

I put a pressure meter between my pressure regulator and my solenoid
valves. If I set the pressure to 30 psi when the sprinkers are on, then
turn the sprinklers off, the meter jumps up to 65 psi and stays there. I
am
thinking that my pressure regulator is bad. My pressure regulator is a
Watts 35B, but I can't find flow rate information on it.

I'm clueless here...but here's what watts writes...
http://www.wattsreg.com/pdf/1915088.pdf

Troubleshooting
High System Pressure
If the downstream system pressure is higher than the set
pressure under no flow conditions, the cause could be thermal
expansion, pressure creep or dirt/debris on the seat.
Thermal expansion occurs whenever water is heated in a
closed system. The system is closed when supply pressure
exceeds 150psi, or a check valve or backflow preventer is
installed in the supply piping.
You must make provisions for pressure relief protection of your
plumbing system and components. The use of a relief valve
such as the Watts 530C, BRV, Governor 80, or 3L or potable
water expansion tank such as the Watts DET,
PLT or DETA may be required.
To determine if this is the result of thermal
expansion, try briefly opening the cold water tap.
If the increased pressure is caused by thermal
expansion, the pressure will immediately be
relieved and the system will return to the set
pressure. Watts offers a pressure test
gauge, model 276H300 to assist you in
determining if you have high water pressure.
The 276H300 when attached to a
hose bibb registers the highest pressure
reading over the period of time it is left on
the system.
USA: 815 Chestnut St., No.Andover, MA 01845-6098;www.wattsreg.com
Canada: 5435 North Service Rd., Burlington, ONT. L7L
5H7;www.wattscanada.ca
1. Ordering Code 3. Type Number
2. Size of Valve 4. Model shown on Nameplate
Watts 276H300

Does it sound like a bad regulator to you?

Where can I find flow rate information on it.

Simple google search....
http://www.americanbackflow.com/cata.../watts.35b.pdf


BTW, I have 17 heads, not 16. The total flow should be about 22 GPM
per
the RB chart.

"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 04:53:34 -0700, "G Burton"
wrote:

The wind made a difference, and it appears that you were absolutely
right. In 12 min of sprinkling, I collected .132" at the bad spot and
.305"
in the good spot.

Several of the bad spots are about 3 ft from a 12 ft spray nozzle,
which
makes me suspect overspraying. I just measured my pressure, and got 62
psi
upstream of the solenoids

I set the pressure high because I have 16
sprinklers each in 2 of my sections.

Increasing pressure does NOT solve inadequate flow! Please review the
chat from RB and calculate flow demand.
http://rainbird.com/landscape/produc...hart_12MPR.htm
you've created a misting system!!!

At 30PSI if all were half sprays you'd have a 20GPM demand. I'm
approximating and not taking into account friction loss etc.

It would be very difficult to add more
sections.

Not to bad, what you need to add is another valve.....


Have you confirmed head to head coverage?
There are heads within 11-12' of the head with the dry spot....sorry
to repeat, but it's another one of the MOST likely problems with
installation! (I have seen both flow and distribution uniformity
problems)

I am using the better Rainbird sprinklers -- not the Home Depot
version.
What would be the best approach?

Congratulations, most don't realize that HD sells crap!!!

a. Reduce the pressure? If so, what to?

Optimum charted pressure is 30PSI
http://rainbird.com/landscape/produc...hart_12MPR.htm
1899 series heads are capable of 70PSI but are foggers at that
pressure even with adequate flow!

b. Change the sprinkler nozzles? If so, what to?

Here our calciferous high dissolved solids level in city water DOES
distort spry nozzles after a few years.
c. Something else.
Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a
pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold




Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a
pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold