"clueless" wrote in message
...

I have a question about my backyard, I just bought my house 2 months ago
here in Reno NV. I live alone and I want to fix my backyard by myself.
The problem I see on my backyard is that the soil is so soft. When it's
sunny it's hard but when it snow, it is very soft..I was wondering when
is the best time to fix the backyard. Do i need to put more soil to get
the land harder? What should I do to get the soil harder? Because I want
to put some grasses soon. Ok thank you if somebody can give me some tips
and advise because I want to save money...thanks

is it the soil which is 'soft' in snow or the grass covering itself? In dry
spells the soil in the front garden does rock hard yet the grass still
survives, whilst perhaps browning off a bit. When the autumn rains arrive
the ground soaks up the water yet the grass covering is soft and spongy. The
grass does ok there and is in no need of re turfing. You may need to dfine
better how the soil is 'soft'. Does the grass grow well? Does it stay
relatively green all year round without dying off completely over summer? Is
it quite thick with minimal weed? If so, the hardness/softness of your soil
may be immaterial as the grass does well in it.

rob

"clueless" wrote in message
...

Well there is no grass yet in the backyard..it is all soil because it is
a new development houses so everything is so new, the houses and soil
are all new. It is soft and muddy when, after the snow, and it snow a
lot here for the past months...but i recognized when i go in my
backyard before the sun's out in the morning the soil is very hard but
then after noontime...it gets watery even if the snow already melted
for days, that is why I can't go back there because my shoes get muddy
up to my socks...I dont know if i have to wait til summer to put some
grass or i can do it now,can I just add more soil in there and kinda
pressed it to the ground or it will not help at all?...I am worried
that if i put grass now, it will still be soft..well thanks for the 1st
response, hope u can help me and understood my explanation more...thank
you!

Is the soil any good? The new developemnts around here scrape off the top
soil before building and only return a fraction of what they nicked (the
*******s then sell the top soil they nicked from your garden commercially).
If there is only a very thin layer it may be that the *******s who developed
the house just left you with a scraping of crap soil.

Have you tested the ph level, for instance. Is that showing a normal level
for growing grass?

I would be tempted, if I was in your shoes, and time and energy willing, to
plough in a good layer of compost or manure or other organic matter to give
the soil some depth and body (some lime added if the soil needs sweetening),
letting it weather for a period with good rainfall and then look at starting
a lawn in another season. My understanding of soil is that when in the
correct balance it is self regulating and requires little intervention from
humans. This is most often true with vege gardens and lawn is an artifical
use of earth, ie, nature would not use earth for that purpose.

The starting point for a vage garden, if the earth is poor, is to super
charge it with organic matter and fibre. I see no reason that a lawn is
different. Get the soil right and you should get the lawn right. I spent a
lot of time pouring chemicals and synthetic fertilisers on my lawn. It
killed the weeds but wasn't that good for the soil. I wised up a while ago
and have worked since to get my soil into decent condition and I think I am
starting to see the results in the lawn.

This is only my opinion however I spend a heck of a lot of time mucking
around with grass.

rob

"George.com" wrote in message
...

"clueless" wrote in message
...

Well there is no grass yet in the backyard..it is all soil because it is
a new development houses so everything is so new, the houses and soil
are all new. It is soft and muddy when, after the snow, and it snow a
lot here for the past months...but i recognized when i go in my
backyard before the sun's out in the morning the soil is very hard but
then after noontime...it gets watery even if the snow already melted
for days, that is why I can't go back there because my shoes get muddy
up to my socks...I dont know if i have to wait til summer to put some
grass or i can do it now,can I just add more soil in there and kinda
pressed it to the ground or it will not help at all?...I am worried
that if i put grass now, it will still be soft..well thanks for the 1st
response, hope u can help me and understood my explanation more...thank
you!

Is the soil any good? The new developemnts around here scrape off the top
soil before building and only return a fraction of what they nicked (the
*******s then sell the top soil they nicked from your garden
commercially).
If there is only a very thin layer it may be that the *******s who
developed
the house just left you with a scraping of crap soil.

Have you tested the ph level, for instance. Is that showing a normal level
for growing grass?

I would be tempted, if I was in your shoes, and time and energy willing,
to
plough in a good layer of compost or manure or other organic matter to
give
the soil some depth and body (some lime added if the soil needs
sweetening),
letting it weather for a period with good rainfall and then look at
starting
a lawn in another season. My understanding of soil is that when in the
correct balance it is self regulating and requires little intervention
from
humans. This is most often true with vege gardens and lawn is an artifical
use of earth, ie, nature would not use earth for that purpose.

just a further note, this is only one of a possible host of suggestions.
Don't immediately think it is the automatic and only solution to your
problem. There are some inbuilt assumptions about the thickness and quality
of your existing soil.

rob

I have a question about my backyard, I just bought my house 2 months ago
here in Reno NV. I live alone and I want to fix my backyard by myself.
The problem I see on my backyard is that the soil is so soft. When it's
sunny it's hard but when it snow, it is very soft..I was wondering when
is the best time to fix the backyard. Do i need to put more soil to get
the land harder? What should I do to get the soil harder? Because I want
to put some grasses soon. Ok thank you if somebody can give me some tips
and advise because I want to save money...thanks


--
clueless
------------------------------------------------------------------------
clueless's Profile: http://www.HomeOutfit.com/member.php?userid=283
View this thread: http://www.HomeOutfit.com/showthread.php?t=68452

Well there is no grass yet in the backyard..it is all soil because it is
a new development houses so everything is so new, the houses and soil
are all new. It is soft and muddy when, after the snow, and it snow a
lot here for the past months...but i recognized when i go in my
backyard before the sun's out in the morning the soil is very hard but
then after noontime...it gets watery even if the snow already melted
for days, that is why I can't go back there because my shoes get muddy
up to my socks...I dont know if i have to wait til summer to put some
grass or i can do it now,can I just add more soil in there and kinda
pressed it to the ground or it will not help at all?...I am worried
that if i put grass now, it will still be soft..well thanks for the 1st
response, hope u can help me and understood my explanation more...thank
you!


--
clueless
------------------------------------------------------------------------
clueless's Profile: http://www.HomeOutfit.com/member.php?userid=283
View this thread: http://www.HomeOutfit.com/showthread.php?t=68452

Well there is no grass yet in the backyard..it is all soil because it is
a new development houses so everything is so new, the houses and soil
are all new. It is soft and muddy when, after the snow, and it snow a
lot here for the past months...but i recognized when i go in my
backyard before the sun's out in the morning the soil is very hard but
then after noontime...it gets watery even if the snow already melted
for days, that is why I can't go back there because my shoes get muddy
up to my socks...I dont know if i have to wait til summer to put some
grass or i can do it now,can I just add more soil in there and kinda
pressed it to the ground or it will not help at all?...I am worried
that if i put grass now, it will still be soft..well thanks for the 1st
response, hope u can help me and understood my explanation more...thank
you!


--
clueless
------------------------------------------------------------------------
clueless's Profile: http://www.HomeOutfit.com/member.php?userid=283
View this thread: http://www.HomeOutfit.com/showthread.php?t=68452

"clueless" wrote in message
...

Well there is no grass yet in the backyard..it is all soil because it is
a new development houses so everything is so new, the houses and soil
are all new. It is soft and muddy when, after the snow, and it snow a
lot here for the past months...but i recognized when i go in my
backyard before the sun's out in the morning the soil is very hard but
then after noontime...it gets watery even if the snow already melted
for days, that is why I can't go back there because my shoes get muddy
up to my socks...I dont know if i have to wait til summer to put some
grass or i can do it now,can I just add more soil in there and kinda
pressed it to the ground or it will not help at all?...I am worried
that if i put grass now, it will still be soft..well thanks for the 1st
response, hope u can help me and understood my explanation more...thank
you!


--
clueless


You need to hire a pro to come in and put in your yard. It sounds like it
needs a lot of work to me, and if you don't know what you are doing, you
will spend a lot of time and money and still not have anything to show for
it.

Pick up the phone and call a professional.

"Oscar_Lives" wrote in message
news:W%2Vf.48088$oL.30940@attbi_s71...

"clueless" wrote in message
...

Well there is no grass yet in the backyard..it is all soil because it is
a new development houses so everything is so new, the houses and soil
are all new. It is soft and muddy when, after the snow, and it snow a
lot here for the past months...but i recognized when i go in my
backyard before the sun's out in the morning the soil is very hard but
then after noontime...it gets watery even if the snow already melted
for days, that is why I can't go back there because my shoes get muddy
up to my socks...I dont know if i have to wait til summer to put some
grass or i can do it now,can I just add more soil in there and kinda
pressed it to the ground or it will not help at all?...I am worried
that if i put grass now, it will still be soft..well thanks for the 1st
response, hope u can help me and understood my explanation more...thank
you!

clueless

You need to hire a pro to come in and put in your yard. It sounds like it
needs a lot of work to me, and if you don't know what you are doing, you
will spend a lot of time and money and still not have anything to show for
it.

Pick up the phone and call a professional.

he could do that, call in a professional who could build it up with topsoil,
roll out some ready lawn and then throw on some synthetic fertiliser at
periodic times. That is one way, the conventional way, of doing it.

If I had the opportunity, and it is only my preference and will not suit
many people I am sure, of restarting a lawn on a new sub division I would
experiment with concepts used by organic gardeners. Conventional alwns use
synthetic fertilisers to feed the grass and weed killers to kill the weeds.
Organic gardening is about feeding the soil and the soil microbal fungal and
worm activity. There is nothing startling about that however many organic
gardeners I speak to are not pro lawn and see it more as something to let go
rather than care for. Mr on the other hand wants a nice lush and fine lawn
but without the chemical crap.

When I moved into my current place the lawn was full of creeping grasses
(like couch and some species I haven't yet been able to identify), paspalum,
carb grass and the like and board leaf weeds. I intensively sprayed it with
broadleaf killer, spot sprayed the couch paspalum etc with glycosate, threw
on lime and synthetic fertilisers. The couch, paspalum, broad leaf certainly
went and are now down to a manageable level where I can dig them out by hand
or crown almost. I still apply a very small amount of glycosate to the
grasses I can't dig out (such as the ******* that I can't identify. I am an
expert at spotting it from 10 mentres in my lawn now). I have wised up a
little recently to a, what I consider anyway, better way of growing things.
Remember that growing lawns is an artifical way of using soil, nature
doesn't do it that way.

Round here developers leave the smallest possible amount of top soil on a
new section. Either way you look at it you will have to truck in some extra
growing medium for any decent grass or flower beds. Organic gardening, most
often food crops, emphasises infusing the soil with large amounts of compost
and manure from the outset. This provides organic matter and the the
nutrients the soil needs, it also helps to balance the soil ph, drainage and
aeration. If starting with a blank canvas rotovating in good amounts of shit
and compost will make your soil nutrient rich and, provided you use balanced
compost, chemically balanced. This is something you only need do once, at
the start, because obviously tiling chit or compost into your soil will
stuff your lawn.

Shit and compost will also infuse you soil with microbal, biological and
worm activity. Check the compost and make sure it has worms in it. Some
comercial compost has SFA or no worms in it whereas the stuff I make in my
back yard is swimming in it. If buying commercial compost (not the bagged
crap, buy it in bulk as it is fresher) try to get hold of some back yard
compost from a friend or family as it will most likely be full or worms).
These are very important for the continued health of your soil. The smallest
mircobes start to break down the organic matter and unlock nutrients all the
way through to worms that eat organic matter and poo it out. They also help
with water retention in the soil as well as aeration. Worms also help break
down thatch and carry organic matter from near the top of the soil to lower
depths. Chemical sprays and synthetic fertilisers can retard or even kill
the biological and worm activity in your soil.

Rake, contour etc from there. My thought, untested but based on principles
of vege gardening, would be to leave that for a season of rain (like you
season firewood) for the soil to settle and the organic matter to fully
decompose (the compost may be only partly broken down or the manure may be
too hot for roots). If you want to keep out weeds lay down thick cardboard
(the tv, fridge type boxes) or even better I think old carpet underlay, the
hessian type stuff made from natural fibres if you can get it. Carpet
layers, demolition teams may often have it if pulling carpet out of old
houses. The covering cuts out light that weeds need to grow. That stuff will
also partly decompose adding further matter (harmless) in to the soil. From
there sow your lawn.

Ongoing maintenance of the lawn should follow patterns similar to
conventional lawn maintenance but using different inputs. This is the stage
I am at now. Put away your synthetic fertilisers, or, better still, don't
even bother buying it. Substitute it for some of the following. Blood and
bone, I use this and it seems to work fine. I apply it prior to some rain as
I have dogs and cats and they like to eat anything on the surface. The rain
washes it in. Very fine compost, spent mushroom compost or types of shit
(like chicken poop) could also be applied that way. Obviously you want it
fine so it reaches the soil rather than sitting on top of the grass. Doing
it just before rain or watering it in helps achieve that, just like you
would do with lime. If the stuff you get is a little course sieve it through
a wire mesh. You can add lime however if the soil is in balance from the
start you shouldn't need it. Mushroom compost helps to sweeten a lawn so
that will, albeit perhaps more slowly than lime, do the same job.

If you can mulch the grass you cut back into the lawn. Use a proper mulching
mower for this, not a pseudo mulch and catch. I use a catcher as all my
grass goes on the compost heap.

More interesting soil applications you could try involve worm tea, compost
tea or seaweed emulsions. Worm tea is the **** from a worm farm and when
watered down (about 10-1 is ideal) is a very balanced and nutritional liquid
fertiliser. Compost tea is similar but made from soaking compost in a
barrell. A google search will throw up many sites. Another method is to bag
organic matter in a hessian sack and immerse it in a large barrell of water
With a sealable lid preferably as the end results stinks). Over a period of
weeks/months the organic matter decomposes giving you a water tea enfused
with nutrients. Someone I know even puts road kill in their liquid
composter. A good fitting lid is essential if going that far. Sea weed
emulsion is similar to making liquid compost. You can mix sea weed in with
other organic matter. Seaweed itself is a very very very good nutrient for
your garden. Water any of that down about 10-1 and apply to the lawn with a
watering can. This can take some time. Again, if applying stinking stuff
some rain helps dilute the smell. All of this stuff also encourages the
microbes and biological activity in the soil. Liquid blood and bone
(commercial stuff) can also be used if desired.

As for weeding, I have gotten rid of the weeds and grasses to the entent I
can get most of them with a knife. This needs regular activity however if
you are a lawn fanatic/weed nazi like I am it is something you do willingly.

Will it be successful? I don't see why not. My experimentation is only
partly through to where I think it needs to be. In the case I have outlined
however you are starting from scratch, not trying to reform someones earlier
mistake like I am. It should be more straight forward. Be aware, it will
take time and effort. Time to get the soil right before sowing and some time
and effort to keep the soil good and the grass growing well. Applying a
broad leaf weed spray is easier than hand weeding with a knife yet, I think,
no where near as satisfying. Although the term is not offically recognised,
organic lawn sounds good to me.

I found a useful resource on the web about organic pastoral farming. I
adapted some of the techniques to lawn to see if they are useful. Don't
worry too much about the bio-dynamic name, they are in to organics but mixed
in with some speudo mystic stuff. If you seperate out the mysticism the rest
makes good sense.
http://www.biodynamic.org.nz/guides/intro_ch1.pdf
http://www.biodynamic.org.nz/guides/ch3env_app.pdf
http://www.organicnz.pl.net/pastissu.../resguides.htm