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#1
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C G wrote: USENET READER wrote: I am starting a DYI home-improvement project and I notice that few power or hand tools are made in the USA. Even most of the Craftsman brand tools are made in the USA. Some are made in Taiwan (a democracy I have no problem doing business with) and Red China (perhaps I should call them Fascist China, a country where the factories are owned by the state and staffed with slave labor). Are you stuck in the '80s? Most Chinese companies have been privatized. And who owns these private companies? Mostly it is well-connected members of the ChiCom party - so for all intents and purposes, it is still owned by those who run the government. Almost everything in Harbor Freight (except for the reconditioned DeWalt tools) is from China. The stuff is garbage and usually dies after a short period of time. Grinders and drills come with extra electric motor brushes which almost always get lost by the time you need them - and you will. HF always tries to sell you an extended warranty program, and most people I know don't buy them - even though for all intents and purposes, if you buy the EW, you can bring back the tool and swap it for a new one anytime the older one doesn't work. So other than the time you lose always gong to HF to exchange tools, that does seem like a good deal. How can American companies compete with that? They can't as long as American consumers puy the cheapest product they can find. IMO, Harbor Freight should not even be in business, but as long as people keep buying the junk, they'll survive. It's a vicious cycle - people's wages don't keep up with inflation, so they either look for cheaper stuff or they have no other choice. And when a store finds it is stocked with goods no one can afford to buy, they go with cheaper stuff to stay in business. It's everyone's fault, but mostly with big business for going overseas in the first place. And when you are trying to compete with some other contractor who hires Mexican illegals, you gotta try and cut your costs as much as you can. If the government enforced it's immigration laws, fined or arrested employers for hiring illegals, shipped the illegals back over the border, and sealed the border up with higher walls that couldn't be cut through or climbed over. But I was talking to two buddies of mine and then mentioned something about the construction trades which made me wonder if any more tools are going to be made in the USA? There are some, but do you and your friends try to find them? Are you willing to pay a higher price to buy them? Actually - yes I am - but it is a lot of work trying to find American made tools. One guy works as a stone mason and he is finding it harder and harder to find American made tools of his trade in the stores. The Chinese-made crap (his words) are cheaply made, don't hold up to continued professional work, rivets pop, everything rusts unless you soak it in oil (which is not good for the mortar or cement, mason's hoes break after one use, etc. That's what happens when you buy the lowest cost tool. If that's all the stores sell, you either buy it or you don't work. The other guy runs a catering truck that runs around to construction sites. He says that, except for the licensed trades (electricians and who are mostly younger white guys), the plumber (who are mostly older white guys) and the bricklayers (who are mostly African American) - everybody else is Mexican and they almost only speak Spanish and need a bi-lingual supervisor on the job. This supervisor - who is not dressed out for work - usually stands around talking on his cell phone, looking at his steel and gold Rolex watch - is a white guy. That's different than the crews I've seen. And the Mexican laborers I've seen are usually working their asses off. Can't say the same about some of the "American" crews I've seen. They work their asses off - not neccesarilly getting anything done, or working smarter either. Can't tell you how many cut phone and cable lines, water pipes and ther stuff that gets done by this hard workers. Also - they seem to die or get injured in the workplace either because the bosses don't want them to work with safety equipment or use safe workplace practices (because it costs too much) or because they didn't work that way back in Mexico. My friends work hard, work smart, work careful, and do good quality work. They pay there self-employment FICA, state and federal taxes, they pay their insurance, and they buy good quality american-made tools when they can. They just keep getting underbid by companies that hire illegals. Well - the real question is - are any of the largely illegal immigrant construction workers buying quality American-made tools, or are they spending as little money as possible on tools as they might either get them stolen from a job site, or because they might get deported at any time and don't want to have any more money invested in tools than absolutely necessary? They probably represent a small total of the tool buyers. Don't try turn this into someone else's fault. The American consumer is choosing the cheapest product, which is not going to be made in the US. The American consumer isn't always choosing the cheapest product - sometimes it's all the consumer can find. When a company like Lowe's can buy cheap chinese made crap for 10% of what they pay Marshalltown, and can sell it for half of what an American made product sells for, they will not want to have so much money tied up in inventory and they realize that they can make more money selling crap that falls apart and needs to be repurchased more often. |
#2
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"USENET READER" wrote in message ink.net... It's a vicious cycle - people's wages don't keep up with inflation, so they either look for cheaper stuff or they have no other choice. And when a store finds it is stocked with goods no one can afford to buy, they go with cheaper stuff to stay in business. It's everyone's fault, but mostly with big business for going overseas in the first place. Wrong. Greedy consumers think they have to have every device and every luxury available nowadays. Even the poor have cadillacs, cell phones, game boys, ipods, and $250 tennis shoes. ****ing stupid people with no self control and no brains are to blame for this mess. And when you are trying to compete with some other contractor who hires Mexican illegals, you gotta try and cut your costs as much as you can. If the government enforced it's immigration laws, fined or arrested employers for hiring illegals, shipped the illegals back over the border, and sealed the border up with higher walls that couldn't be cut through or climbed over. Stupid ****. We aren't talking about illegal aliens. We are talking about damn hard working immigrants doing jobs that fat lazy americans who are used to living on the dole won't do. But I was talking to two buddies of mine and then mentioned something about the construction trades which made me wonder if any more tools are going to be made in the USA? There are some, but do you and your friends try to find them? Are you willing to pay a higher price to buy them? Actually - yes I am - but it is a lot of work trying to find American made tools. Yeah, because no-skilled union american workers think they have to be paid $25 an hour to manufacture these tools. One guy works as a stone mason and he is finding it harder and harder to find American made tools of his trade in the stores. The Chinese-made crap (his words) are cheaply made, don't hold up to continued professional work, rivets pop, everything rusts unless you soak it in oil (which is not good for the mortar or cement, mason's hoes break after one use, etc. That's what happens when you buy the lowest cost tool. If that's all the stores sell, you either buy it or you don't work. That's different than the crews I've seen. And the Mexican laborers I've seen are usually working their asses off. Can't say the same about some of the "American" crews I've seen. They work their asses off - not neccesarilly getting anything done, or working smarter either. Can't tell you how many cut phone and cable lines, water pipes and ther stuff that gets done by this hard workers. Also - they seem to die or get injured in the workplace either because the bosses don't want them to work with safety equipment or use safe workplace practices (because it costs too much) or because they didn't work that way back in Mexico. My friends work hard, work smart, work careful, and do good quality work. They pay there self-employment FICA, state and federal taxes, they pay their insurance, and they buy good quality american-made tools when they can. They just keep getting underbid by companies that hire illegals. And don't forget all the fat lazy and corrupt union workers who strangle productivity because of stupid labor rules that require 5 shovel-leaners for every one worker. Well - the real question is - are any of the largely illegal immigrant construction workers buying quality American-made tools, or are they spending as little money as possible on tools as they might either get them stolen from a job site, or because they might get deported at any time and don't want to have any more money invested in tools than absolutely necessary? They probably represent a small total of the tool buyers. Don't try turn this into someone else's fault. The American consumer is choosing the cheapest product, which is not going to be made in the US. The American consumer isn't always choosing the cheapest product - sometimes it's all the consumer can find. When a company like Lowe's can buy cheap chinese made crap for 10% of what they pay Marshalltown, and can sell it for half of what an American made product sells for, they will not want to have so much money tied up in inventory and they realize that they can make more money selling crap that falls apart and needs to be repurchased more often. American consumers are too stupid, lazy, and looking for instant gratification that they think they are owed by the government. They won't work hard and save and take care of what they have. They want more more more disposable shit and they want the government or the corporation or "the man" to give it to them because they think they "deserve it". |
#3
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On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 02:05:59 GMT, "Oscar_Lives"
wrote: "USENET READER" wrote in message link.net... It's a vicious cycle - people's wages don't keep up with inflation, so they either look for cheaper stuff or they have no other choice. And when a store finds it is stocked with goods no one can afford to buy, they go with cheaper stuff to stay in business. It's everyone's fault, but mostly with big business for going overseas in the first place. Wrong. Greedy consumers think they have to have every device and every luxury available nowadays. Even the poor have cadillacs, cell phones, game boys, ipods, and $250 tennis shoes. ****ing stupid people with no self control and no brains are to blame for this mess. If only the US were a dictatorship, you could stop this waste! Ain't it a shame you don't run the country? |
#4
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Tom Disque wrote: On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 02:05:59 GMT, "Oscar_Lives" wrote: "USENET READER" wrote in message hlink.net... It's a vicious cycle - people's wages don't keep up with inflation, so they either look for cheaper stuff or they have no other choice. And when a store finds it is stocked with goods no one can afford to buy, they go with cheaper stuff to stay in business. It's everyone's fault, but mostly with big business for going overseas in the first place. Wrong. Greedy consumers think they have to have every device and every luxury available nowadays. Even the poor have cadillacs, cell phones, game boys, ipods, and $250 tennis shoes. ****ing stupid people with no self control and no brains are to blame for this mess. If only the US were a dictatorship, you could stop this waste! Ain't it a shame you don't run the country? No actually if we lived in a real democracy instead of a fascist state run by corporations, we could elect leaders who would put the interests of the majority of Americans ahead of that 1/2 of 1% of rich pukes that control close to 40% of the real wealth. |
#5
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Oscar_Lives wrote: "USENET READER" wrote in message ink.net... It's a vicious cycle - people's wages don't keep up with inflation, so they either look for cheaper stuff or they have no other choice. And when a store finds it is stocked with goods no one can afford to buy, they go with cheaper stuff to stay in business. It's everyone's fault, but mostly with big business for going overseas in the first place. Wrong. Greedy consumers think they have to have every device and every luxury available nowadays. Even the poor have cadillacs, cell phones, game boys, ipods, and $250 tennis shoes. ****ing stupid people with no self control and no brains are to blame for this mess. Who do you think makes the greedy consumers want all that stuff - the big companies who advertise them and also make them overseas. And when you are trying to compete with some other contractor who hires Mexican illegals, you gotta try and cut your costs as much as you can. If the government enforced it's immigration laws, fined or arrested employers for hiring illegals, shipped the illegals back over the border, and sealed the border up with higher walls that couldn't be cut through or climbed over. Stupid ****. We aren't talking about illegal aliens. We are talking about damn hard working immigrants doing jobs that fat lazy americans who are used to living on the dole won't do. Actually stupiid **** - we are talking about illegal alliens. The damn hard working immigrants you are referring to are mostly illegals. And they all drive wages down. If they weren't here, then the bosses would be forced to offer higher wages to legal workers who wouldn't need to be on the dole. Nobody on the dole wants to be on the dole - but then again being on the dole can sometimes pay more than what you make by working at those slave labor wages that the illegas get paid. But I was talking to two buddies of mine and then mentioned something about the construction trades which made me wonder if any more tools are going to be made in the USA? There are some, but do you and your friends try to find them? Are you willing to pay a higher price to buy them? Actually - yes I am - but it is a lot of work trying to find American made tools. Yeah, because no-skilled union american workers think they have to be paid $25 an hour to manufacture these tools. No - because workers who live in a country that isn't a democracy have no rights to a decent lliving wage, no right to workplace health and safety protection and no environmenta protections. Companies locate in those countries because they can get away with stuff that is illegal here in the USA. Are you saying that in addition to the lower wages, you would tolerate increased pollution, and increased risks to your health and safety on the job? What if, just to keep your job, you had to accept increased dangers on the workplace just to remain competitive - and you lost eyes and limbs on the job - it that worth keeping your job? One guy works as a stone mason and he is finding it harder and harder to find American made tools of his trade in the stores. The Chinese-made crap (his words) are cheaply made, don't hold up to continued professional work, rivets pop, everything rusts unless you soak it in oil (which is not good for the mortar or cement, mason's hoes break after one use, etc. That's what happens when you buy the lowest cost tool. If that's all the stores sell, you either buy it or you don't work. That's different than the crews I've seen. And the Mexican laborers I've seen are usually working their asses off. Can't say the same about some of the "American" crews I've seen. They work their asses off - not neccesarilly getting anything done, or working smarter either. Can't tell you how many cut phone and cable lines, water pipes and ther stuff that gets done by this hard workers. Also - they seem to die or get injured in the workplace either because the bosses don't want them to work with safety equipment or use safe workplace practices (because it costs too much) or because they didn't work that way back in Mexico. My friends work hard, work smart, work careful, and do good quality work. They pay there self-employment FICA, state and federal taxes, they pay their insurance, and they buy good quality american-made tools when they can. They just keep getting underbid by companies that hire illegals. And don't forget all the fat lazy and corrupt union workers who strangle productivity because of stupid labor rules that require 5 shovel-leaners for every one worker. Hey **** you - if it hadn't been for those brave union workers who put their lives and jobs on the line, we wouldn't have the workplace and wage protections that we have now - 40 hour workweek, overtime protection, workpace health and safety protection. In fact, all the protections you have today are due to unions and other liberal ideas. SO unless you want to be the first on the boat to go back and work in some slave labor factory in China just for the sake of showing that the bosses are always right and good, then shut the **** up! Well - the real question is - are any of the largely illegal immigrant construction workers buying quality American-made tools, or are they spending as little money as possible on tools as they might either get them stolen from a job site, or because they might get deported at any time and don't want to have any more money invested in tools than absolutely necessary? They probably represent a small total of the tool buyers. Don't try turn this into someone else's fault. The American consumer is choosing the cheapest product, which is not going to be made in the US. The American consumer isn't always choosing the cheapest product - sometimes it's all the consumer can find. When a company like Lowe's can buy cheap chinese made crap for 10% of what they pay Marshalltown, and can sell it for half of what an American made product sells for, they will not want to have so much money tied up in inventory and they realize that they can make more money selling crap that falls apart and needs to be repurchased more often. American consumers are too stupid, lazy, and looking for instant gratification that they think they are owed by the government. They won't work hard and save and take care of what they have. They want more more more disposable shit and they want the government or the corporation or "the man" to give it to them because they think they "deserve it". No actually dumb **** - American workers are smart, the most productive in the world, and willing to work hard and save for the future. But you can't save for the future if you don't have a job that pays enough for you to live on now! Actually - I can't think of anyone who wants to work hard for shit that will fall apart on them, but with greedy investors expecting a 40% return on their investment, some greedy manager will find a way to cut corners, move a factory overseas - whatever it takes to give the "ownership class" what they want at the expense of working people. Why do you dumb ****s endorse the kind of class warfare that makes investment rewarded more than hard work? Are you wone of those pukes who inherited all their wealth? |
#6
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On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 02:06:01 GMT, USENET READER
wrote: Oscar_Lives wrote: [snip] And don't forget all the fat lazy and corrupt union workers who strangle productivity because of stupid labor rules that require 5 shovel-leaners for every one worker. Hey **** you - if it hadn't been for those brave union workers who put their lives and jobs on the line, we wouldn't have the workplace and wage protections that we have now - 40 hour workweek, overtime protection, workpace health and safety protection. In fact, all the protections you have today are due to unions and other liberal ideas. SO unless you want to be the first on the boat to go back and work in some slave labor factory in China just for the sake of showing that the bosses are always right and good, then shut the **** up! [snip] Those brave union workers who put their lives and jobs on the line are not the same people as the fat lazy and corrupt union workers who strangle productivity because of stupid labor rules. |
#7
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Tom Disque wrote: On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 02:06:01 GMT, USENET READER wrote: Oscar_Lives wrote: [snip] And don't forget all the fat lazy and corrupt union workers who strangle productivity because of stupid labor rules that require 5 shovel-leaners for every one worker. Hey **** you - if it hadn't been for those brave union workers who put their lives and jobs on the line, we wouldn't have the workplace and wage protections that we have now - 40 hour workweek, overtime protection, workpace health and safety protection. In fact, all the protections you have today are due to unions and other liberal ideas. SO unless you want to be the first on the boat to go back and work in some slave labor factory in China just for the sake of showing that the bosses are always right and good, then shut the **** up! [snip] Those brave union workers who put their lives and jobs on the line are not the same people as the fat lazy and corrupt union workers who strangle productivity because of stupid labor rules. What stupid labor rules are you referring to? Those rules are simply a contract to deliver labor to management in a specific way. Instead of management telling you what to do and how to do it and you having no say other than to quit if you don't like it, labor and management negotiates the rules by which the work gets done. It's like delivering any other service - you just don't like the fact that these workers have rights that you don't have. Are you envious or jealous? why not admit it instead of calling these workers names because you can't handle it? |
#8
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On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 08:08:57 GMT, USENET READER
wrote: Tom Disque wrote: On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 02:06:01 GMT, USENET READER wrote: Oscar_Lives wrote: [snip] And don't forget all the fat lazy and corrupt union workers who strangle productivity because of stupid labor rules that require 5 shovel-leaners for every one worker. Hey **** you - if it hadn't been for those brave union workers who put their lives and jobs on the line, we wouldn't have the workplace and wage protections that we have now - 40 hour workweek, overtime protection, workpace health and safety protection. In fact, all the protections you have today are due to unions and other liberal ideas. SO unless you want to be the first on the boat to go back and work in some slave labor factory in China just for the sake of showing that the bosses are always right and good, then shut the **** up! [snip] Those brave union workers who put their lives and jobs on the line are not the same people as the fat lazy and corrupt union workers who strangle productivity because of stupid labor rules. What stupid labor rules are you referring to? Those rules are simply a contract to deliver labor to management in a specific way. Instead of management telling you what to do and how to do it and you having no say other than to quit if you don't like it, labor and management negotiates the rules by which the work gets done. It's like delivering any other service - you just don't like the fact that these workers have rights that you don't have. Are you envious or jealous? why not admit it instead of calling these workers names because you can't handle it? I simply cut 'n' pasted what you and Oscar said and pasted them together, to emphasize that you aren't talking about the same people. Did you not notice the exact same wording, or do you not read what you write? I DO think it is ridiculous to require a union electrician to plug in equipment, though. |
#9
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Tom Disque wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 08:08:57 GMT, USENET READER wrote: Tom Disque wrote: On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 02:06:01 GMT, USENET READER wrote: Oscar_Lives wrote: [snip] And don't forget all the fat lazy and corrupt union workers who strangle productivity because of stupid labor rules that require 5 shovel-leaners for every one worker. Hey **** you - if it hadn't been for those brave union workers who put their lives and jobs on the line, we wouldn't have the workplace and wage protections that we have now - 40 hour workweek, overtime protection, workpace health and safety protection. In fact, all the protections you have today are due to unions and other liberal ideas. SO unless you want to be the first on the boat to go back and work in some slave labor factory in China just for the sake of showing that the bosses are always right and good, then shut the **** up! [snip] Those brave union workers who put their lives and jobs on the line are not the same people as the fat lazy and corrupt union workers who strangle productivity because of stupid labor rules. What stupid labor rules are you referring to? Those rules are simply a contract to deliver labor to management in a specific way. Instead of management telling you what to do and how to do it and you having no say other than to quit if you don't like it, labor and management negotiates the rules by which the work gets done. It's like delivering any other service - you just don't like the fact that these workers have rights that you don't have. Are you envious or jealous? why not admit it instead of calling these workers names because you can't handle it? I simply cut 'n' pasted what you and Oscar said and pasted them together, to emphasize that you aren't talking about the same people. Did you not notice the exact same wording, or do you not read what you write? I DO think it is ridiculous to require a union electrician to plug in equipment, though. Depends on where you are plugging stuff into and what else is plugged into that circuit? I work in photography and when I go up to NYC to photograph a dancer in a Broadway show (as I did last summer), I can't just plug into any old wall outlet. I don't know what the outlet is rated for, what else is plugged in there, etc. So I get a union guy to do it. He or she is responsible for knowing the condition of the electrical capacity in the building or theater. He comes and checks out my equipment, makes sure it isn't gonna blow up their electrical outlets or in any way keep them from putting on a show. He knows if the outlet is live and if not, how to turn it on. He knowns if it is switched off for a reason - it needs to be repaired or perhaps other things are plugged into it and need to be switched on and off for the show. There are all sorts of pratical reasons why you need a union electrician to do that work - would you want to plug in some cheap-assed made in China electrical device and blow out an entire electrical panel and keep a Broadway show from starting on time? I know also that when my grandmother was n a nursing home, you couldn't plug in any electrical devices into the wall without first having them checked out by the custodial staff. You wouldn't want someone plugging in some crappy old non-grounded lamp and tripping the breakers and grandma's O2 generator goes out - would you? |
#10
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USENET READER wrote:
C G wrote: USENET READER wrote: I am starting a DYI home-improvement project and I notice that few power or hand tools are made in the USA. Even most of the Craftsman brand tools are made in the USA. Some are made in Taiwan (a democracy I have no problem doing business with) and Red China (perhaps I should call them Fascist China, a country where the factories are owned by the state and staffed with slave labor). Are you stuck in the '80s? Most Chinese companies have been privatized. And who owns these private companies? Mostly it is well-connected members of the ChiCom party - so for all intents and purposes, it is still owned by those who run the government. Still stuck in the '80s. The ownership has been changing for quite a while now, but I would not have expected you to be informed enough to know this. Almost everything in Harbor Freight (except for the reconditioned DeWalt tools) is from China. The stuff is garbage and usually dies after a short period of time. Grinders and drills come with extra electric motor brushes which almost always get lost by the time you need them - and you will. HF always tries to sell you an extended warranty program, and most people I know don't buy them - even though for all intents and purposes, if you buy the EW, you can bring back the tool and swap it for a new one anytime the older one doesn't work. So other than the time you lose always gong to HF to exchange tools, that does seem like a good deal. How can American companies compete with that? They can't as long as American consumers puy the cheapest product they can find. IMO, Harbor Freight should not even be in business, but as long as people keep buying the junk, they'll survive. It's a vicious cycle - people's wages don't keep up with inflation, so they either look for cheaper stuff or they have no other choice. And when a store finds it is stocked with goods no one can afford to buy, they go with cheaper stuff to stay in business. It's everyone's fault, but mostly with big business for going overseas in the first place. The problem didn't start with wages, it started with American consumers wanting the cheapest possible price, with little regard for quality. Look at shop tools. When companies like Grizzly came on the scene, people endorsed their products because they were a few bucks cheaper than someone like Delta. And when you are trying to compete with some other contractor who hires Mexican illegals, you gotta try and cut your costs as much as you can. Yes, you do. If the government enforced it's immigration laws, fined or arrested employers for hiring illegals, shipped the illegals back over the border, and sealed the border up with higher walls that couldn't be cut through or climbed over. No disagreement here. For the past 4 years I've been working to help someone from another country come here legally. It ****es me off that the government makes all kinds of exceptions for illegals, and that so many people look the other way so they can take advantage of the cheap labor that illegals represent. But I was talking to two buddies of mine and then mentioned something about the construction trades which made me wonder if any more tools are going to be made in the USA? There are some, but do you and your friends try to find them? Are you willing to pay a higher price to buy them? Actually - yes I am - but it is a lot of work trying to find American made tools. One guy works as a stone mason and he is finding it harder and harder to find American made tools of his trade in the stores. The Chinese-made crap (his words) are cheaply made, don't hold up to continued professional work, rivets pop, everything rusts unless you soak it in oil (which is not good for the mortar or cement, mason's hoes break after one use, etc. That's what happens when you buy the lowest cost tool. If that's all the stores sell, you either buy it or you don't work. It's all the stores sell because years ago people voted, with their money, for cheap imports. It also happened because in many cases, the American products were overpriced junk. The other guy runs a catering truck that runs around to construction sites. He says that, except for the licensed trades (electricians and who are mostly younger white guys), the plumber (who are mostly older white guys) and the bricklayers (who are mostly African American) - everybody else is Mexican and they almost only speak Spanish and need a bi-lingual supervisor on the job. This supervisor - who is not dressed out for work - usually stands around talking on his cell phone, looking at his steel and gold Rolex watch - is a white guy. That's different than the crews I've seen. And the Mexican laborers I've seen are usually working their asses off. Can't say the same about some of the "American" crews I've seen. They work their asses off - not neccesarilly getting anything done, or working smarter either. Can't tell you how many cut phone and cable lines, water pipes and ther stuff that gets done by this hard workers. That is most likely the fault of the contractor, for failing to have the said line marked, than the workers. Also - they seem to die or get injured in the workplace either because the bosses don't want them to work with safety equipment or use safe workplace practices (because it costs too much) or because they didn't work that way back in Mexico. My friends work hard, work smart, work careful, and do good quality work. They pay there self-employment FICA, state and federal taxes, they pay their insurance, and they buy good quality american-made tools when they can. They just keep getting underbid by companies that hire illegals. Yup, and unless we all do something about it, the problem will continue. Well - the real question is - are any of the largely illegal immigrant construction workers buying quality American-made tools, or are they spending as little money as possible on tools as they might either get them stolen from a job site, or because they might get deported at any time and don't want to have any more money invested in tools than absolutely necessary? They probably represent a small total of the tool buyers. Don't try turn this into someone else's fault. The American consumer is choosing the cheapest product, which is not going to be made in the US. The American consumer isn't always choosing the cheapest product - sometimes it's all the consumer can find. When a company like Lowe's can buy cheap chinese made crap for 10% of what they pay Marshalltown, and can sell it for half of what an American made product sells for, they will not want to have so much money tied up in inventory and they realize that they can make more money selling crap that falls apart and needs to be repurchased more often. I'd say most American consumers shop by price, with quality factored in to some extent, rather than by country of origin. |
#11
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C G wrote:
USENET READER wrote: C G wrote: That's what happens when you buy the lowest cost tool. If that's all the stores sell, you either buy it or you don't work. It's all the stores sell because years ago people voted, with their money, for cheap imports. It also happened because in many cases, the American products were overpriced junk. [ just a quickie observation: ] Nope. From everything I've seen in the past few years, it was the idiot, strip-mining MBAs demanding more profits this quarter, pressuring buyers and store managers to replace the stuff on the shelves with something containing a higher profit margin. So they dropped the el cheapo model, the mid-range, and the high end - replacing them with only one offering: an inferior Chinese model bought for a song, but selling at 80% of the excellent-quality high-end version price. Since it is the only widget available, those who *need* a widget buy it. |
#12
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Dweezil Dwarftosser wrote:
C G wrote: USENET READER wrote: C G wrote: That's what happens when you buy the lowest cost tool. If that's all the stores sell, you either buy it or you don't work. It's all the stores sell because years ago people voted, with their money, for cheap imports. It also happened because in many cases, the American products were overpriced junk. [ just a quickie observation: ] Nope. From everything I've seen in the past few years, it was the idiot, strip-mining MBAs demanding more profits this quarter, pressuring buyers and store managers to replace the stuff on the shelves with something containing a higher profit margin. So they dropped the el cheapo model, the mid-range, and the high end - replacing them with only one offering: an inferior Chinese model bought for a song, but selling at 80% of the excellent-quality high-end version price. Since it is the only widget available, those who *need* a widget buy it. It started way before the "past few years". If we, the consumers, had not started down the cheap tool path the businesses such as Harbor Freight, Grizzly, etc would not have survived. Since we did start down that path, other businesses decided they needed to follow that model. |
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Dweezil Dwarftosser wrote:
Nope. From everything I've seen in the past few years, it was the idiot, strip-mining MBAs demanding more profits this quarter, pressuring buyers and store managers to replace the stuff on the shelves with something containing a higher profit margin. So they dropped the el cheapo model, the mid-range, and the high end - replacing them with only one offering: an inferior Chinese model bought for a song, but selling at 80% of the excellent-quality high-end version price. Since it is the only widget available, those who *need* a widget buy it. Could you name a few products that people *need* where only an inferior Chinese model is available? -- Susan Hogarth "We dissent, secondly, because the powers vested in Congress by this constitution, must necessarily annihilate and absorb the legislative, executive, and judicial powers of the several states, and produce from their ruins one consolidated government, which from the nature of things will be an iron handed despotism, as nothing short of the supremacy of despotic sway could connect and govern these United States under one government." - Minority opinion on the ratification of US Constitution |
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On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 18:40:39 +0000, Susan Hogarth wrote:
Dweezil Dwarftosser wrote: Nope. From everything I've seen in the past few years, it was the idiot, strip-mining MBAs demanding more profits this quarter, pressuring buyers and store managers to replace the stuff on the shelves with something containing a higher profit margin. So they dropped the el cheapo model, the mid-range, and the high end - replacing them with only one offering: an inferior Chinese model bought for a song, but selling at 80% of the excellent-quality high-end version price. Since it is the only widget available, those who *need* a widget buy it. Could you name a few products that people *need* where only an inferior Chinese model is available? In fear of agreeing with the Dweezil, there are no longer any options in the bicycle tire market. I have a friend that worked at a bike shop and he states that there are no longer any manufactures of bicycle tires in the us, and all the manufacturing equiptment was sold. The US no longer have the ablity to manufacture bicycle tires and we exported the technology to do so. -- Yard Works Gardening Co. http://www.ywgc.com |
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On 1/15/2005 1:40 PM US(ET), Susan Hogarth took fingers to keys, and
typed the following: Dweezil Dwarftosser wrote: Nope. From everything I've seen in the past few years, it was the idiot, strip-mining MBAs demanding more profits this quarter, pressuring buyers and store managers to replace the stuff on the shelves with something containing a higher profit margin. So they dropped the el cheapo model, the mid-range, and the high end - replacing them with only one offering: an inferior Chinese model bought for a song, but selling at 80% of the excellent-quality high-end version price. Since it is the only widget available, those who *need* a widget buy it. Could you name a few products that people *need* where only an inferior Chinese model is available? Thanks for nothing! I was going to write down some items from my Chinese restaurant menu and all of a sudden, I wanted Chinese food. So did everyone else in the family. It cost me a trip to the restaurant in below freezing weather and $51. -- Bill |
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