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#1
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paphs and phrags
I bought a paph and a phrag last spring. Both stopped blooming in
August. I was told to water them so that the pot is left standing in about a half centimetre of water, and then not water again until the day after the standing water had disappeared. The paph, Paph. Magic Lantern (micranthum x delenatii), appears to be very happy with this treatment, and has, within the past month, produced a nice little new growth. The plant itself is a modest size with only half a dozen beautifully patterned leaves. The tag on the phrag is very hard to read, but it looks like Phrag Mam Dick Clements. It does not seem to like this culture. It has two new growths that appear to be happy, but all but two of the leaves from the old growth are brown, and one of the remaining two appears to be on its way out. From the old growth, only one leaf is a healthy green color. This phrag is clearly trying to grow out of its pot, with the growth that had bloomed being about 1 cm above the substrate (looks like either bark or small coconut chips), and the two new growths about 1 cn higher than that still. It is my understanding that this plant had won an award n previous years, but the only trace of anything older that the growth that produced this year's bloom is a little stub that clearly had its leaves cut off once the leaves turned brown, at a height of about 3 cm, before I bought it. It had clearly bloomed at least once before. So, what is happening? With the same treatment, which I was told by the vendour to provide, the paph is obviously happy, with no sign if death anywhere, but the phrag does not look happy. Is the phrag really dying, or is what I am seeing normal? Thanks, Ted R.E. (Ted) Byers, Ph.D., Ed.D. R & D Decision Support Solutions http://www.randddecisionsupportsolutions.com/ Healthy Living Through Informed Decision Making |
#2
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Ted wrote:
I bought a paph and a phrag last spring. Both stopped blooming in August. I was told to water them so that the pot is left standing in about a half centimetre of water, and then not water again until the day after the standing water had disappeared. The paph, Paph. Magic Lantern (micranthum x delenatii), appears to be very happy with this treatment, and has, within the past month, produced a nice little new growth. The plant itself is a modest size with only half a dozen beautifully patterned leaves. The tag on the phrag is very hard to read, but it looks like Phrag Mam Dick Clements. It does not seem to like this culture. It has two new growths that appear to be happy, but all but two of the leaves from the old growth are brown, and one of the remaining two appears to be on its way out. From the old growth, only one leaf is a healthy green color. This phrag is clearly trying to grow out of its pot, with the growth that had bloomed being about 1 cm above the substrate (looks like either bark or small coconut chips), and the two new growths about 1 cn higher than that still. And here I would have thought the opposite would have happened. I would never leave a Magic Lantern standing in water. But, if it is working for you, don't stop. I would worry that as the mix breaks down, this will stay too wet. If it were my plant, I'd lose the saucer, or at least dump out the saucer immediately after watering. And water the plant using the 'finger' test. If it feels soggy, don't. If it is starting to approach dryness, do. Phrags tend to climb, which is what you are seeing with the MDC. In general, phrags are supposed to like to be kept wetter than paphs. In practice, you can usually treat them pretty much the same. A lot of people grow phrags sitting in saucers of water. Different people have different approaches to dealing with climbing. If the rhizome is long enough, and a bit flexible, you can pin the new growth down with a bent piece of wire. If not, you can repot the plant, and set the base of the newest growths at 'ground level', burying the oldest growth a bit. Or put the plant into the pot at an angle (leaning). If it isn't due for repotting, you could put a little sphagnum moss around the base of the plant, to encourage new root growth. I wouldn't worry too much about the oldest growth losing leaves, if the new ones appear happy. Phrags do that. It might be a sign that the plant needs repotting. This is a pretty good time of year to repot phrags, might as well. -- Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a) See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more orchids, obtain more credit |
#3
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Its OK for the old growths to die back. They flower and die. As long as
the new growths like your culture, grow to the same size or larger then you are OK. The 'standing in water' trick is pretty standard for Phrag culture. I don't use it personally, but thousands of people swear by it. Its the growth habit for many besseae hybrids to climb out of their pot. Not much you can do about that. BTW its Phrag Memoria Dick Clements (Mem.) Many awards on this cross. I'm glad you have one of them K Barrett "Ted" wrote in message oups.com... I bought a paph and a phrag last spring. Both stopped blooming in August. I was told to water them so that the pot is left standing in about a half centimetre of water, and then not water again until the day after the standing water had disappeared. The paph, Paph. Magic Lantern (micranthum x delenatii), appears to be very happy with this treatment, and has, within the past month, produced a nice little new growth. The plant itself is a modest size with only half a dozen beautifully patterned leaves. The tag on the phrag is very hard to read, but it looks like Phrag Mam Dick Clements. It does not seem to like this culture. It has two new growths that appear to be happy, but all but two of the leaves from the old growth are brown, and one of the remaining two appears to be on its way out. From the old growth, only one leaf is a healthy green color. This phrag is clearly trying to grow out of its pot, with the growth that had bloomed being about 1 cm above the substrate (looks like either bark or small coconut chips), and the two new growths about 1 cn higher than that still. It is my understanding that this plant had won an award n previous years, but the only trace of anything older that the growth that produced this year's bloom is a little stub that clearly had its leaves cut off once the leaves turned brown, at a height of about 3 cm, before I bought it. It had clearly bloomed at least once before. So, what is happening? With the same treatment, which I was told by the vendour to provide, the paph is obviously happy, with no sign if death anywhere, but the phrag does not look happy. Is the phrag really dying, or is what I am seeing normal? Thanks, Ted R.E. (Ted) Byers, Ph.D., Ed.D. R & D Decision Support Solutions http://www.randddecisionsupportsolutions.com/ Healthy Living Through Informed Decision Making |
#4
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Ted, let me add to the other 2 replies I see so far.
In spite of what you see, you probably have less problems with the Phrag and more problems with the Paph than you think. What the Phrag is doing isn't all that far from normal. A really happy Phrag will keep most of the old leaves as the new growths develop but it not uncommon for the old growth to decline. If you've been leaving the Paph. Magic Lantern standing in water, there's an excellent chance that you have rotted all the roots in the bottom of the pot. Maybe higher up too. A paph that has lost ALL of its roots will will sit there looking normal for a long time and it will start new growths too. Pull that plant out of its pot and see what the roots are doing. If you find soft roots in the bottom of the pot, I would clean off all the old medium and pull off all the roots that are dead. Repot the thing and do not let it sit in water again. Steve Ted wrote: I bought a paph and a phrag last spring. Both stopped blooming in August. I was told to water them so that the pot is left standing in about a half centimetre of water, and then not water again until the day after the standing water had disappeared. The paph, Paph. Magic Lantern (micranthum x delenatii), appears to be very happy with this treatment, and has, within the past month, produced a nice little new growth...... ............ .......................... So, what is happening? With the same treatment, which I was told by the vendour to provide, the paph is obviously happy, with no sign if death anywhere, but the phrag does not look happy. Is the phrag really dying, or is what I am seeing normal? Thanks, Ted R.E. (Ted) Byers, Ph.D., Ed.D. R & D Decision Support Solutions http://www.randddecisionsupportsolutions.com/ Healthy Living Through Informed Decision Making |
#5
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On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:53:32 -0400, Steve
wrote: Pull that plant out of its pot and see what the roots are doing. If you find soft roots in the bottom of the pot, I would clean off all the old medium and pull off all the roots that are dead. Repot the thing and do not let it sit in water again. Steve I will add to all the advise by suggesting Semi hydro culture for both plants. It will guarantee the air to the roots, no rotting medium, and the water if they want it. You can read more about it at First Ray's website. We use it for all the Phrags which just love it and any of the Paphs over seedling size. Much easier to miss a water day too. You can see the reservoir and know if the plant has access to water. SuE http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php |
#6
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Thanks all (Rob, K Barrett, Steve and Sue),
This is greatly appreciated. Both are due for repotting, and I will be going to an orchid show in Cambridge Ontario, so I can pick up some medium there. It looks like they are both presently in very small coconut husk chips. The phrag is in a 7.5 cm plastic pot and the paph is in a 5 cm pot, both about 10 cm tall. I do notice that water appears in the saucer the very moment I start watering, in contrast to even my very happy catts; but then they're in larger pots so it takes a few seconds for water to appear out the bottom once I start watering. I could be wrong but that suggests that there is plenty of pore space within the medium to allow the roots free access to air. Even coarse sand doesn't let water move through it that fast. I want to try semihydro, and there are suppliers of the right supplies to do it. I just haven't had the time to go and get the needed supplies. And I am a bit concerned about the potential for mortality since I understand the old roots would be history and the new ones will take time to grow. I'll read up on it on Ray's site, again, and see just how significant the risk is. Thanks again, Ted R.E. (Ted) Byers, Ph.D., Ed.D. R & D Decision Support Solutions http://www.randddecisionsupportsolutions.com/ Healthy Living Through Informed Decision Making |
#7
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Ted,
I think you'd find that both paphs and phrags take to S/H culture really well, with little or no root loss. -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info! "Ted" wrote in message ups.com... Thanks all (Rob, K Barrett, Steve and Sue), This is greatly appreciated. Both are due for repotting, and I will be going to an orchid show in Cambridge Ontario, so I can pick up some medium there. It looks like they are both presently in very small coconut husk chips. The phrag is in a 7.5 cm plastic pot and the paph is in a 5 cm pot, both about 10 cm tall. I do notice that water appears in the saucer the very moment I start watering, in contrast to even my very happy catts; but then they're in larger pots so it takes a few seconds for water to appear out the bottom once I start watering. I could be wrong but that suggests that there is plenty of pore space within the medium to allow the roots free access to air. Even coarse sand doesn't let water move through it that fast. I want to try semihydro, and there are suppliers of the right supplies to do it. I just haven't had the time to go and get the needed supplies. And I am a bit concerned about the potential for mortality since I understand the old roots would be history and the new ones will take time to grow. I'll read up on it on Ray's site, again, and see just how significant the risk is. Thanks again, Ted R.E. (Ted) Byers, Ph.D., Ed.D. R & D Decision Support Solutions http://www.randddecisionsupportsolutions.com/ Healthy Living Through Informed Decision Making |
#8
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Thanks Ray,
I'll repot them in semihydro and see what happens. In fact, if you look at one of my other posts, you'll see I have an issue with a Zga hybrid. Apparently Zygopetalum likes it wet, but not to sit in standing water, so I'll put it into semihydro once the bloom fades, and see how it does. I am hoping to find the transparent pots and PrimeAgra at the COOS show in Cambridge tomorrow. Thanks again, Ted R.E. (Ted) Byers, Ph.D., Ed.D. R & D Decision Support Solutions http://www.randddecisionsupportsolutions.com/ Healthy Living Through Informed Decision Making |
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