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#1
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Query for the judges
Scenario:
Person A receives a CCM/AOS on Epi. Schemagle. Person A names it Epi. Schemagle 'Schmaltz'. Person A gives a piece of Epi. Schemagle 'Schmaltz' to person B. Clearly, the CCM does not go with the piece given to person B, since it is a cultural award to the original grower. Questions: 1. Does the name 'Schmaltz' go with the piece given to person B? 2. What if person B takes the plant to judging and wins an award? How is the name handled? I.E., does person B now get to name the new plant Epi. Schemagle 'Putz' (excuse me, those who get it), or does 'Schmaltz' come into play? Yeah, I have a keike from a CCM awarded plant. What if it grows like Topsy and I want to have it judged? All purely theoretical, since Frank and I were discussing the topic. Enlighten me, please. Diana |
#2
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Query for the judges
(I'm not a judge and neither do I play one on TV)
Diana Kulaga wrote: Scenario: Person A receives a CCM/AOS on Epi. Schemagle. Person A names it Epi. Schemagle 'Schmaltz'. Person A gives a piece of Epi. Schemagle 'Schmaltz' to person B. (snip) Questions: 1. Does the name 'Schmaltz' go with the piece given to person B? Yes 2. What if person B takes the plant to judging and wins an award? How is the name handled? I.E., does person B now get to name the new plant Epi. Schemagle 'Putz' (excuse me, those who get it No, because it is not a new plant. It is still a division of the previously named 'Schmaltz.' The point of the clonal name is to uniquely identify a particular clone, so it remains attached to any divisions or mericlones of that plant. Renaming it every time it receives a different award defeats that purpose. IMO, it is a good idea to assign a clonal name to un-named clones whenever you distribute divisions, even if they are not awarded. Knowing if one particular clone is widely disseminated is useful information for breeders, collectors, and judges. Of course, human nature being what it is, I'm sure there are cases of unscrupulous persons buying an awarded clone, renaming it, and resubmitting it for judging. |
#3
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Query for the judges
Nick is correct. If you get a flower quality award, it will be Epi.
Schemagle 'Schmaltz', AM/AOS (or HCC, or FCC). And if it grows like Topsy into a specimen plant, you could get a new CCM, for yourself, on your piece of it. Kenni "Diana Kulaga" wrote in message news Scenario: Person A receives a CCM/AOS on Epi. Schemagle. Person A names it Epi. Schemagle 'Schmaltz'. Person A gives a piece of Epi. Schemagle 'Schmaltz' to person B. Clearly, the CCM does not go with the piece given to person B, since it is a cultural award to the original grower. Questions: 1. Does the name 'Schmaltz' go with the piece given to person B? 2. What if person B takes the plant to judging and wins an award? How is the name handled? I.E., does person B now get to name the new plant Epi. Schemagle 'Putz' (excuse me, those who get it), or does 'Schmaltz' come into play? Yeah, I have a keike from a CCM awarded plant. What if it grows like Topsy and I want to have it judged? All purely theoretical, since Frank and I were discussing the topic. Enlighten me, please. Diana |
#4
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Query for the judges
Thanks, folks.
Diana |
#5
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Query for the judges
One more wrinkle to this one: the plant had not yet been awarded when I
received a piece of it. Does that change things? I know this sounds like nit picking, but I am genuinely curious about it. Full disclosu I have no plans to take this plant for judging any time soon. Diana |
#6
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Query for the judges
I don't imagine it would change things. If the other person already
named the clone "A", then any divisions should still carry that name since the plants are genetically idential, regardless of award status. Cheers, Xi Diana Kulaga wrote: One more wrinkle to this one: the plant had not yet been awarded when I received a piece of it. Does that change things? I know this sounds like nit picking, but I am genuinely curious about it. Full disclosu I have no plans to take this plant for judging any time soon. Diana |
#7
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Query for the judges
Xi Wang wrote:
I don't imagine it would change things. If the other person already named the clone "A", then any divisions should still carry that name since the plants are genetically idential, regardless of award status. Cheers, Xi Diana Kulaga wrote: One more wrinkle to this one: the plant had not yet been awarded when I received a piece of it. Does that change things? I know this sounds like nit picking, but I am genuinely curious about it. Full disclosu I have no plans to take this plant for judging any time soon. Diana Ok, just to be the officious prig here... According to the AOS handbook 11th ed. pg 43, section 6.1 Purpose and granting of awards. "The Certificate of Cultural Excellence (CCE) or Certificate of Cultural Merit (CCM) will not be awarded to an orcid cultivar, but to the exhibitor of the plant and becomes part of the plant record. Divisions of the cultivar bear the culitvar name, but not the designation of CCE or CCM." For example, many many people own Paph. spicerianum 'St Albans' which has a clonal name for its CCM (1978), and was only recently given a quality award. An AM I think granted for its darker coloration than previous awards (11/04). If you know for a fact that you actually have a piece of orchid 'A' (which predates the CCM/CCE award) then you can put the clonal name on the piece, because it is in fact the same plant. K Barrett |
#8
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Query for the judges
Diana: The bottom line is that you are stuck with the clonal name
'Schmaltz'. There are lots of named clones out there which have never been awarded. It still wouldn't be right to change the clonal name on one or more of them, unless perhaps you could somehow be sure you had every single one in existence and then gave the whole group your new clonal name. E.g., I have one Catt that bloomed out green amongst a sea of magenta/spotted siblings. I gave it the clonal name 'Green Ice' so I could tell it apart while the plants were out of bloom. Eventually it made 4 or 5 divisions. Before I sold any of them, I could have changed my mind and picked a new clonal name such as 'Envy.' But now that some of the other divisions belong to other people, it would be inappropriate for me to do that, even if it were to receive an award. Kenni "Diana Kulaga" wrote in message ... One more wrinkle to this one: the plant had not yet been awarded when I received a piece of it. Does that change things? I know this sounds like nit picking, but I am genuinely curious about it. Full disclosu I have no plans to take this plant for judging any time soon. Diana |
#9
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Query for the judges
I was clear on the difference between naming and awards, and also that a CCM
doesn't travel with divisions. Perhaps the one thing that I didn't mention is that I got my division prior to the CCM being awarded to the person who gave it to me. Not that it matters, because I will keep the name given by the owner of the original plant. And I can certainly see the value in keeping the identification intact. What this discussion has changed for me is that I will never again give or trade away a division without naming the plant first. Time to alter some tags. Nick, your 'Foo' and 'Bar', you have no idea what befell me a few years back when I joined in a pickup game of slow pitch while wearing my "Fubar" T-shirt! ;-O Diana |
#10
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Query for the judges
Unfortunately, each of the 4 or 5 new owners could now give it their own
cultivar names! A flawed system, perhaps? -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info! "Kenni Judd" wrote in message ... Diana: The bottom line is that you are stuck with the clonal name 'Schmaltz'. There are lots of named clones out there which have never been awarded. It still wouldn't be right to change the clonal name on one or more of them, unless perhaps you could somehow be sure you had every single one in existence and then gave the whole group your new clonal name. E.g., I have one Catt that bloomed out green amongst a sea of magenta/spotted siblings. I gave it the clonal name 'Green Ice' so I could tell it apart while the plants were out of bloom. Eventually it made 4 or 5 divisions. Before I sold any of them, I could have changed my mind and picked a new clonal name such as 'Envy.' But now that some of the other divisions belong to other people, it would be inappropriate for me to do that, even if it were to receive an award. Kenni "Diana Kulaga" wrote in message ... One more wrinkle to this one: the plant had not yet been awarded when I received a piece of it. Does that change things? I know this sounds like nit picking, but I am genuinely curious about it. Full disclosu I have no plans to take this plant for judging any time soon. Diana |
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