In article 02,
Dusty wrote:

"danny" wrote in
:

I bloom quite a bit under normal fluorescent shop lights. I wanted
the more intense T5 fixture so I could have a taller space for
blooming out the slippers and other stuff with tall spikes. HID
lights can also suck for blooming stuff like phals, the flower
arrangement comes out awful. I guess putting two HID lights on one of
the circular light movers might correct that problem, I have one on a
linear track and it helps a little but they still come out better
under fluorescents. -danny




I'm not sure if your are getting all good information from the Guy at
the hydoponics shop. I've looked up the T-5 lamps specifications and I
only see about a 10% gain in light over a standard 40 watt. However
being small as they are you may be able to cram a lot of lamps close
together and get a higher amount of light.You could also do that with T-
8 lamps which are a lot less costly. Here's the specs as I found them
between T-5's & T-12's;

T-5 lamp Width 5/8 in. Length 48 in. 28 Watts Rated Life
36000 Hours
F28W/T5/830 Color Temperature 3000K Lumens 2900 Initial/2726 Mean
F28W/T5/865/ECO Color Temperature 6500K Lumens 2700 Initial/2480 Mean


t-12 lamp standard Fluorescent like in shop light Width 1.59 Length 48
in 40 Watts
40 Watt - T12 - Full Spectrum Fluorescent
F/40T12EX Color Temperature 5765K Mean Lumens 2290 Rated Life 20000
hours @ 12 hours a day
F40/DX/ALTO Color Temperature 6500K Mean Lumens 2025 Rated Life 28800
hours @ 12 hours a day

Grow well and bloom magnificently
dusty



If you want real high intensity florescent lights you may want to check
out Grower's Supply http:www/growerssupply.com

Items 105070, 105071, and 105072 are compact florescent full spectrum
fixtures...at 125 and 200 watts. They are about 20 inches long and 13
inches wide...

3 of them will fit in a 4 foot long run - replacing 3-2 tube shop light
fixtures - so 600 watts in place of 240 watts...

Apparently these are high output T5 fixtures. The bulbs that came with my
fixture say they are 54W / 4200 lumens each, 216 watts for the four tube
fixture. That lumen output doesn't sound all that great for the amount of
power but it's ok I guess. They claim to be some sort of grow bulb so the
lumens/watt may not be the highest possible? I just did a quick search and
found another 54W grow bulb that claimed to be 5000 initial / 4700 mean
lumens. The eight tube fixtures are 432 Watts, so their output should be
comparable to my 400W metal halide fixtures but spread more evenly..
-danny

"Dusty" wrote in message
. 17.102...
"danny" wrote in
:
I'm not sure if your are getting all good information from the Guy at
the hydoponics shop. I've looked up the T-5 lamps specifications and I
only see about a 10% gain in light over a standard 40 watt. However
being small as they are you may be able to cram a lot of lamps close
together and get a higher amount of light.You could also do that with T-
8 lamps which are a lot less costly. Here's the specs as I found them
between T-5's & T-12's;

T-5 lamp Width 5/8 in. Length 48 in. 28 Watts Rated Life
36000 Hours
F28W/T5/830 Color Temperature 3000K Lumens 2900 Initial/2726 Mean
F28W/T5/865/ECO Color Temperature 6500K Lumens 2700 Initial/2480 Mean
...
Grow well and bloom magnificently
dusty

I am glad my winter is still three months off, this thread shows that
finding the right lighting at a reasonable cost is difficult. Right
now I am leaning to a HPS kit (www.ezhydrokit.com/default.php?cPath=21)
since I will need the heat in my garage anyway. When you make your
choice please post it here as I would like to have the info.
Joe T
Baytown

danny wrote:
Apparently these are high output T5 fixtures. The bulbs that came with my
fixture say they are 54W / 4200 lumens each, 216 watts for the four tube
fixture. That lumen output doesn't sound all that great for the amount of
power but it's ok I guess. They claim to be some sort of grow bulb so the
lumens/watt may not be the highest possible? I just did a quick search and
found another 54W grow bulb that claimed to be 5000 initial / 4700 mean
lumens. The eight tube fixtures are 432 Watts, so their output should be
comparable to my 400W metal halide fixtures but spread more evenly..
-danny

"Dusty" wrote in message
. 17.102...
"danny" wrote in
:
I'm not sure if your are getting all good information from the Guy at
the hydoponics shop. I've looked up the T-5 lamps specifications and I
only see about a 10% gain in light over a standard 40 watt. However
being small as they are you may be able to cram a lot of lamps close
together and get a higher amount of light.You could also do that with T-
8 lamps which are a lot less costly. Here's the specs as I found them
between T-5's & T-12's;

T-5 lamp Width 5/8 in. Length 48 in. 28 Watts Rated Life
36000 Hours
F28W/T5/830 Color Temperature 3000K Lumens 2900 Initial/2726 Mean
F28W/T5/865/ECO Color Temperature 6500K Lumens 2700 Initial/2480 Mean
...
Grow well and bloom magnificently
dusty

Your situation is different from mine. My growing space is in a
sunroom. It has a nice, leaky steam radiator for heat during the
winter. I have east, lots of south, and west exposures--so I don't need
the "sodium" aspect of HID lighting. Also, because I use my growing
space as an office, the last thing that I'd want is HPS lighting--it is
weird and ugly. MH light is far more attractive, and balanced with
natural daylight, it provides a complete spectrum of light. The banks
of fluorescent lights under shelves are not obnoxious.

Because you are growing in a garage, you might want to check out the
dual MH / HPS lights--they give a balance of growing/fruiting light.
And in a garage, you might want the extra heat. I don't know where you
live, but if your nights are cold (mine are sub-zero), you might want
to invest in some heated seedling mats. My floor-growing areas in the
sunroom are chilly because they are above an unheated garage. Putting
in heated seedling mats under the orchids' humidity trays made a huge
difference in their health. Also, a min/max thermometer is a good
investment. At 2 AM, it can get damn cold, and you'd never know it
unless you are an insomniac.

jtill wrote:
I am glad my winter is still three months off, this thread shows that
finding the right lighting at a reasonable cost is difficult. Right
now I am leaning to a HPS kit (www.ezhydrokit.com/default.php?cPath=21)
since I will need the heat in my garage anyway. When you make your
choice please post it here as I would like to have the info.
Joe T
Baytown

danny wrote:
Apparently these are high output T5 fixtures. The bulbs that came with my
fixture say they are 54W / 4200 lumens each, 216 watts for the four tube
fixture. That lumen output doesn't sound all that great for the amount of
power but it's ok I guess. They claim to be some sort of grow bulb so the
lumens/watt may not be the highest possible? I just did a quick search and
found another 54W grow bulb that claimed to be 5000 initial / 4700 mean
lumens. The eight tube fixtures are 432 Watts, so their output should be
comparable to my 400W metal halide fixtures but spread more evenly..
-danny

"Dusty" wrote in message
. 17.102...
"danny" wrote in
:
I'm not sure if your are getting all good information from the Guy at
the hydoponics shop. I've looked up the T-5 lamps specifications and I
only see about a 10% gain in light over a standard 40 watt. However
being small as they are you may be able to cram a lot of lamps close
together and get a higher amount of light.You could also do that with T-
8 lamps which are a lot less costly. Here's the specs as I found them
between T-5's & T-12's;

T-5 lamp Width 5/8 in. Length 48 in. 28 Watts Rated Life
36000 Hours
F28W/T5/830 Color Temperature 3000K Lumens 2900 Initial/2726 Mean
F28W/T5/865/ECO Color Temperature 6500K Lumens 2700 Initial/2480 Mean
...
Grow well and bloom magnificently
dusty

Orchid care is always, like politics, local ;-)) Average high here is
92 and average low 44. We always have a few nights around 32 and a rare
swing into the 20s.
Joe T
Baytown

OrchidKitty wrote:
Your situation is different from mine. My growing space is in a
sunroom. It has a nice, leaky steam radiator for heat during the
winter. I have east, lots of south, and west exposures--so I don't need
the "sodium" aspect of HID lighting. Also, because I use my growing
space as an office, the last thing that I'd want is HPS lighting--it is
weird and ugly. MH light is far more attractive, and balanced with
natural daylight, it provides a complete spectrum of light. The banks
of fluorescent lights under shelves are not obnoxious.

Because you are growing in a garage, you might want to check out the
dual MH / HPS lights--they give a balance of growing/fruiting light.
And in a garage, you might want the extra heat. I don't know where you
live, but if your nights are cold (mine are sub-zero), you might want
to invest in some heated seedling mats. My floor-growing areas in the
sunroom are chilly because they are above an unheated garage. Putting
in heated seedling mats under the orchids' humidity trays made a huge
difference in their health. Also, a min/max thermometer is a good
investment. At 2 AM, it can get damn cold, and you'd never know it
unless you are an insomniac.

jtill wrote:
I am glad my winter is still three months off, this thread shows that
finding the right lighting at a reasonable cost is difficult. Right
now I am leaning to a HPS kit (www.ezhydrokit.com/default.php?cPath=21)
since I will need the heat in my garage anyway. When you make your
choice please post it here as I would like to have the info.
Joe T
Baytown

danny wrote:
Apparently these are high output T5 fixtures. The bulbs that came with my
fixture say they are 54W / 4200 lumens each, 216 watts for the four tube
fixture. That lumen output doesn't sound all that great for the amount of
power but it's ok I guess. They claim to be some sort of grow bulb so the
lumens/watt may not be the highest possible? I just did a quick search and
found another 54W grow bulb that claimed to be 5000 initial / 4700 mean
lumens. The eight tube fixtures are 432 Watts, so their output should be
comparable to my 400W metal halide fixtures but spread more evenly..
-danny

"Dusty" wrote in message
. 17.102...
"danny" wrote in
:
I'm not sure if your are getting all good information from the Guy at
the hydoponics shop. I've looked up the T-5 lamps specifications and I
only see about a 10% gain in light over a standard 40 watt. However
being small as they are you may be able to cram a lot of lamps close
together and get a higher amount of light.You could also do that with T-
8 lamps which are a lot less costly. Here's the specs as I found them
between T-5's & T-12's;

T-5 lamp Width 5/8 in. Length 48 in. 28 Watts Rated Life
36000 Hours
F28W/T5/830 Color Temperature 3000K Lumens 2900 Initial/2726 Mean
F28W/T5/865/ECO Color Temperature 6500K Lumens 2700 Initial/2480 Mean
...
Grow well and bloom magnificently
dusty

Jack wrote:


One of the other tricks that he was telling me about was putting diode
lights, like the plastic rope lights, in the plants, you can put them
very close and wrap a plants that need more light in them because they
produce little heat. Plus the put light to the underside of the leaf.


This is interesting because a friend of mine who has marble windowsills
in a cold room uses the rope lights under the plants to keep their feet
warm. Hmmm...

Reka

Reka wrote:
Jack wrote:


One of the other tricks that he was telling me about was putting diode
lights, like the plastic rope lights, in the plants, you can put them
very close and wrap a plants that need more light in them because they
produce little heat. Plus the put light to the underside of the leaf.


This is interesting because a friend of mine who has marble windowsills
in a cold room uses the rope lights under the plants to keep their feet
warm. Hmmm...


I doubt they produce enough light. The LEDs for plant use are very
expensive fixtures.

J. Del Col

wrote:
Reka wrote:
Jack wrote:

One of the other tricks that he was telling me about was putting diode
lights, like the plastic rope lights, in the plants, you can put them
very close and wrap a plants that need more light in them because they
produce little heat. Plus the put light to the underside of the leaf.

This is interesting because a friend of mine who has marble windowsills
in a cold room uses the rope lights under the plants to keep their feet
warm. Hmmm...


I doubt they produce enough light. The LEDs for plant use are very
expensive fixtures.

J. Del Col

I didn't say she needed them for light. I said she needed them for heat.

Reka

LED's are basically worthless if you're trying to generate heat. They are
designed to be "cold light".

I'd bet your friend has small "rope lights" on incandescent bulbs, not
LED's.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!


"Reka" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Reka wrote:
Jack wrote:

One of the other tricks that he was telling me about was putting diode
lights, like the plastic rope lights, in the plants, you can put them
very close and wrap a plants that need more light in them because they
produce little heat. Plus the put light to the underside of the leaf.

This is interesting because a friend of mine who has marble windowsills
in a cold room uses the rope lights under the plants to keep their feet
warm. Hmmm...


I doubt they produce enough light. The LEDs for plant use are very
expensive fixtures.

J. Del Col

I didn't say she needed them for light. I said she needed them for heat.

Reka

OrchidKitty wrote;
"Because you are growing in a garage, you might want to check out the
dual MH / HPS lights--they give a balance of growing/fruiting light.
And in a garage, you might want the extra heat."

Thanks, Looks like good advice and I will check it out.
Joe T
Bagdad on the Bayou

Ray wrote:
LED's are basically worthless if you're trying to generate heat. They are
designed to be "cold light".

I'd bet your friend has small "rope lights" on incandescent bulbs, not
LED's.

Do you know of a link to show me the difference, Ray?

Thx,
Reka

Reka wrote:
Ray wrote:
LED's are basically worthless if you're trying to generate heat. They are
designed to be "cold light".

I'd bet your friend has small "rope lights" on incandescent bulbs, not
LED's.

Do you know of a link to show me the difference, Ray?

Think of miniature Christmas tree lights. Those are incandescent. They
get hot because they have a white-hot tungsten filament.

Now think of the little glowing status lights on your computer. Those
are LEDs
LEDs are solid state devices. They put out very little heat. A string
of single LEDs would be useless for either light -or- heat.

J. Del Col

This is sort of off the thread, but because my sunroom growing area is
above an unheated garage, my floor is cold, especially when the
temperatures are below freezing. It has been my experience that orchids
in S/H really don't like having cold feet. So last winter I bought the
largest-available heated seedling mat and put it under the humidity
trays of the Phals and Catts. So I had fluorescent light above and the
heated mat below. Boy, the plants grew like crazy--especially those in
S/H. The heated seedling mats don't put out that much heat, but it's
enough.


wrote:
Reka wrote:
Ray wrote:
LED's are basically worthless if you're trying to generate heat. They are
designed to be "cold light".

I'd bet your friend has small "rope lights" on incandescent bulbs, not
LED's.

Do you know of a link to show me the difference, Ray?

Think of miniature Christmas tree lights. Those are incandescent. They
get hot because they have a white-hot tungsten filament.

Now think of the little glowing status lights on your computer. Those
are LEDs
LEDs are solid state devices. They put out very little heat. A string
of single LEDs would be useless for either light -or- heat.

J. Del Col

OrchidKitty wrote:
This is sort of off the thread, but because my sunroom growing area is
above an unheated garage, my floor is cold, especially when the
temperatures are below freezing. It has been my experience that orchids
in S/H really don't like having cold feet. So last winter I bought the
largest-available heated seedling mat and put it under the humidity
trays of the Phals and Catts. So I had fluorescent light above and the
heated mat below. Boy, the plants grew like crazy--especially those in
S/H. The heated seedling mats don't put out that much heat, but it's
enough.


Good choice. Propagation mats are built for the job, unlike christmas
tree lights.

J. Del Col

wrote:
Reka wrote:
Ray wrote:
LED's are basically worthless if you're trying to generate heat. They are
designed to be "cold light".

I'd bet your friend has small "rope lights" on incandescent bulbs, not
LED's.

Do you know of a link to show me the difference, Ray?

Think of miniature Christmas tree lights. Those are incandescent. They
get hot because they have a white-hot tungsten filament.

Now think of the little glowing status lights on your computer. Those
are LEDs
LEDs are solid state devices. They put out very little heat. A string
of single LEDs would be useless for either light -or- heat.

J. Del Col

I know the difference between LED and incandescent. I was wondering if
Ray had seen pictures of LED rope lights and incandescent rope lights.

Reka