Bruce Musgrove wrote:
I spotted this on one of my orchids while watering them and was wondering
what it was.

First, it is a dead leaf. No seriously, cut it off as close to the
plant as you can. If it is infecting the plant you want to remove it
with a quickness to keep it from the heart of the plant. A small pin
hole or crack in the leaf can absorb and transport the chemical
treatment. It looked as if the plant tried to seal off the damaged
area, but failed. If it (the plant) perceives it as a threat, it will
abort the entire leaf. How long have you had this orchid? If it was a
recent acquisition there may have been some physical damage that you
were unaware. Plants from department stores and resellers get handled
a lot, often by people that don't know or care.

Could this be a burn mark from water sitting on the leaf in
the sun?

Probably. When the leaves fall in my area, it changes the light
intensity through the sunny windows. A drop of water, in this case oil
from the soap will scald the leaves because it acts like a lens and
concentrates the light more. When the water evaporates it will leave a
drop of the pure soap. It will also conduct heat and cold more.

I did spray with Safer brand inseciticidal soap last week at the
end of the day. Maybe I put it back in the window to soon?

Why? Did you have an infestation? If so what was the pest?

You really have to watch oil based products when spraying. Some
products shouldn't be used on orchids at all, or used at a reduced
concentration. Even pure neem recommends a balance of detergent in the
mix to keep the oil in solution. Keep it stirred or shake the sprayer
to prevent it from separating. Don't spray all the way to the bottom
of the bottle. If it separates, there is too high a concentration at
the bottom of the sprayer. That applies to poorly dissolved plant food
that settles.

I looked in the Ortho books and could not find anything similar.

Ortho is selling chemicals. They won't show damage caused by improper
use. Not to say you didn't follow the instructions and have good
intentions, just that their products may not be tested on or
recommended for orchids, maybe that particular orchid was more
sensitive than your others, or the concentration changed as you
sprayed.

Honestly, if you can find an orchid society in your area, you may want
to do so. They can be a lot of fun and an amazing source of
information. Keep in mind, they aren't A.A. They are enablers,
everyone will have something different, and you will want more for
yourself. If the members can agree on an order, the group discounts
from growers' catalogs can be a benefit plus the larger the order the
more balanced the cost of shipping.

Orchids at box stores get handled a lot. They are packed, shipped,
distributed, shipped again. Unpacked and put on shelves with other
tropicals or outside in garden departments. Employees and customers
handle them. They may be inappropriately potted and incorrectly
watered. The staff may or may not be knowledgeable, more than likely
not. You have to look at the plant carefully, not just the blooms. It
may take years for a Catt, Onc, or Den to "outgrow" the damage. Phals,
because of their monopodial growth may NEVER recover.

However most of the purchases are impulse. Why did you buy it,
"Because it was there, pretty, and I had $15, or it was marked down
because the blooms had faded, the plant looked healthy, and I have
time." Been there, done that, and sometimes still do it. Everyone
starts someplace.

Best wishes, Happy growing

I realize I am a amateur but....

The plant is in good condition and had just finished dropping its last
flower about 3 weeks before . It has new growth appearing at the base and
appears to be healthy except for the one leaf. This one leaf was closest
to the windows, and was removed from the plant ( I have learned a few
things!). I am mainly curious if anyone else had seen something similar. I
was fairly sure it was the insecticidal soap burning it just as water drops
do on a car's paint, BUT I could have been wrong and may have the Orchid
version of a Ebola Virus. I regularly see rings like this on other plants
(mainly trees and shrubbery)around here from insect damage. I did not know
if orchids had similar problems.

The plants (yes, all of them) were sprayed because of a spider mite
infestation on a cattleya. Repeated hosing of the plants while watering
them was keeping the infestation down but not stopping it. After it spread
to two more plants, I decided to take other measures.

I do have two good orchid societies here. Greater North Texas orchid society
( http://www.gntos.org/ )and Forth Worth Orchid society
http://www.fworchidsociety.com/. Unfortunately for me , there meeting places
are over 30 miles from me, and commitments with my children makes it
impossible for me to go to their meetings. I hate that as one of them
actually has a very good County Extension agent who raises and sells
orchids (http://www.dandborchids.com/) The children have almost lost out on
that one, but they must always come first (the human children that is)!

I do check them carefully before buying. I apply the same rules as I do for
my garden plants. Is the planting medium in good shape? Does the medium
smell rotten or clean and fresh? Are the leaves a healthy consistent green?
no insect damage? yellow mottling? Fungal spot? Do the pseudobulbs look
healthy? Any new growth / roots? Do the flowers look healthy and not wilted?
Are the flower colors consistent between blooms? That may not be the
perfect formula for buying, but it has worked good so far. The box stores
definitely do not handle them well and I have taken many to the manger and
pointed out the issues with not only orchids , but other plants in the
tropical area. On the other hands, get there soon after arrival, and they do
not have long to do any damage!


"Nancy G." wrote in message
oups.com...
Bruce Musgrove wrote:
I spotted this on one of my orchids while watering them and was wondering
what it was.

First, it is a dead leaf. No seriously, cut it off as close to the
plant as you can. If it is infecting the plant you want to remove it
with a quickness to keep it from the heart of the plant. A small pin
hole or crack in the leaf can absorb and transport the chemical
treatment. It looked as if the plant tried to seal off the damaged
area, but failed. If it (the plant) perceives it as a threat, it will
abort the entire leaf. How long have you had this orchid? If it was a
recent acquisition there may have been some physical damage that you
were unaware. Plants from department stores and resellers get handled
a lot, often by people that don't know or care.

Could this be a burn mark from water sitting on the leaf in
the sun?

Probably. When the leaves fall in my area, it changes the light
intensity through the sunny windows. A drop of water, in this case oil
from the soap will scald the leaves because it acts like a lens and
concentrates the light more. When the water evaporates it will leave a
drop of the pure soap. It will also conduct heat and cold more.

I did spray with Safer brand inseciticidal soap last week at the
end of the day. Maybe I put it back in the window to soon?

Why? Did you have an infestation? If so what was the pest?

You really have to watch oil based products when spraying. Some
products shouldn't be used on orchids at all, or used at a reduced
concentration. Even pure neem recommends a balance of detergent in the
mix to keep the oil in solution. Keep it stirred or shake the sprayer
to prevent it from separating. Don't spray all the way to the bottom
of the bottle. If it separates, there is too high a concentration at
the bottom of the sprayer. That applies to poorly dissolved plant food
that settles.

I looked in the Ortho books and could not find anything similar.

Ortho is selling chemicals. They won't show damage caused by improper
use. Not to say you didn't follow the instructions and have good
intentions, just that their products may not be tested on or
recommended for orchids, maybe that particular orchid was more
sensitive than your others, or the concentration changed as you
sprayed.

Honestly, if you can find an orchid society in your area, you may want
to do so. They can be a lot of fun and an amazing source of
information. Keep in mind, they aren't A.A. They are enablers,
everyone will have something different, and you will want more for
yourself. If the members can agree on an order, the group discounts
from growers' catalogs can be a benefit plus the larger the order the
more balanced the cost of shipping.

Orchids at box stores get handled a lot. They are packed, shipped,
distributed, shipped again. Unpacked and put on shelves with other
tropicals or outside in garden departments. Employees and customers
handle them. They may be inappropriately potted and incorrectly
watered. The staff may or may not be knowledgeable, more than likely
not. You have to look at the plant carefully, not just the blooms. It
may take years for a Catt, Onc, or Den to "outgrow" the damage. Phals,
because of their monopodial growth may NEVER recover.

However most of the purchases are impulse. Why did you buy it,
"Because it was there, pretty, and I had $15, or it was marked down
because the blooms had faded, the plant looked healthy, and I have
time." Been there, done that, and sometimes still do it. Everyone
starts someplace.

Best wishes, Happy growing

Bruce Musgrove wrote:
I realize I am a amateur but....


Okay, I was a little miffed because someone slammed Walmart and someone
else cheered. You sound like you have a good grip on things. Sorry if
you feel I talked down to you.

Amateur here, too.

"Nancy G." wrote in message
ups.com...

Who "slammed" Walmart? I missed it -- unless you're referring to Pat's
suggestion, which I found perfectly appropriate. Where else, besides the
seller, should you first take questions or problems about any product you've
purchased??? Kenni

Okay, I was a little miffed because someone slammed Walmart and someone
else cheered.

I don't know... maybe a usenet newsgroup dedicated to that particular item /
hobby, and full of professionals / amateurs / hobbyists willing to help
others (AKA newbies) learn ? :=)

Wasn't that intent of USENET? a virtual gathering place where users of
similar intersts could electronically share information.


"Kenni Judd" wrote in message
...

snip Where else, besides the
seller, should you first take questions or problems about any product
you've purchased??? Kenni

The intent of USENET was never to be a replacement for customer service so
that box stores could save on labor costs. I think the box stores will
become the major orchid suppliers and they owe their consumers more. It is
not too much to expect all orchids to come with care instructions for the
particular plant in the mix it is potted in. And when the customer's plant
gets sick and they go back to the same store to purchase sprays, somebody in
the store should be able to recommend products and help the consumer
identify any culture problems that may be causing the problem. Some of the
box stores are better than others, but are you really going to get any worst
suggestions than some of the USENET responses you may receive. The box
stores offering the 1 years 100 % satisfaction guarantee is the best deal
out there. Don't like the spot, trade it in. Don't like that it is not in
bloom, trade it in.

Pat

wrote in message
...
I don't know... maybe a usenet newsgroup dedicated to that particular item
/ hobby, and full of professionals / amateurs / hobbyists willing to help
others (AKA newbies) learn ? :=)

Wasn't that intent of USENET? a virtual gathering place where users of
similar intersts could electronically share information.


"Kenni Judd" wrote in message
...

snip Where else, besides the
seller, should you first take questions or problems about any product
you've purchased??? Kenni

You're naive if you think coming into a group of vendors bragging about a
bunch of [warty] orchids you bought for cheap at Walmart then wanting to
know why they aren't growing and wanting free advice isn't going to raise
some hackles. Get your head out.

So, caveat emptor, Bruce.

And you get what you pay for.

K Barrett

"Bruce Musgrove" wrote in message
...
I don't know... maybe a usenet newsgroup dedicated to that particular item
/ hobby, and full of professionals / amateurs / hobbyists willing to help
others (AKA newbies) learn ? :=)

Wasn't that intent of USENET? a virtual gathering place where users of
similar intersts could electronically share information.


"Kenni Judd" wrote in message
...

snip Where else, besides the
seller, should you first take questions or problems about any product
you've purchased??? Kenni

At the risk of being flamed half to death, I'm chiming in here. Just about
all of us have had questions for this group at one time or another, and
everyone was a "newbie" at one time.

Do I purchase most of my orchids from reputable vendors? Yeah. Do I value
their hard work and try to help them stay in business? Yeah. Do I ever see
something at HD and pick it up? Yeah again. And I daresay that, with the
[possible] exception of the commercial growers in this group, most of us
have done the same.

Are we suddenly hostile to questions from people seeking information because
of where they bought their plants? C'mon, guys. Let's get back to friendly
and welcoming.

Just my two cents. Flame retardant suit is on.

Diana

"K Barrett" wrote in message
. ..
You're naive if you think coming into a group of vendors bragging about a
bunch of [warty] orchids you bought for cheap at Walmart then wanting to
know why they aren't growing and wanting free advice isn't going to raise
some hackles. Get your head out.

So, caveat emptor, Bruce.

And you get what you pay for.

K Barrett

"Bruce Musgrove" wrote in message
...
I don't know... maybe a usenet newsgroup dedicated to that particular item
/ hobby, and full of professionals / amateurs / hobbyists willing to help
others (AKA newbies) learn ? :=)

Wasn't that intent of USENET? a virtual gathering place where users of
similar intersts could electronically share information.


"Kenni Judd" wrote in message
...

snip Where else, besides the
seller, should you first take questions or problems about any product
you've purchased??? Kenni

I see a lot of people asking for "free" advice here, and not getting the
hostile response I have received over this one. What did I say or do to get
this reaction?

It was a simple innocent little question, not spam, a flame, or a rant.
I had done a lot of internet research and book research before asking and
had not seen or read anything like it . I had a theory of what it may be,
based on when it showed up and what I had been doing. Confirmation that it
was what I thought it was , and not some other MAJOR disease would have been
nice. I don't care how many times I read about diseases, until I actually
see a picture (or a live plant) with a disease, it is difficult to relate
the words to practice. At least for me it is as I am more visual.

The question had nothing to do with what store it was bought at. That
particular plant is a healthy flowering DGMRA Winter Wonderland "White
Fairy" ( http://katkom01.home.comcast.net/wfairy.jpg ). It was bought at
the Dallas Home and Garden show from the Greater North Texas Orchid Society
(GNTOS), along with 4 others. The person who placed it at the booth for the
benefit of the GNTOS was a local Commercial orchid seller. Does that make me
more or less entitled to "free advice"? Would any of the group feel
differently if my previous posts of what I though were unusually patterned
or colored flowers had not mentioned where they were bought? I thought it
mind blowing that Wal Mart, Lowes, or home depot even carried Orchids , much
less one of the patterns I bought.

By the way, just to balance things out, I now have 27 orchids. Of those, 12
were bought at local garden shows from one of the two orchid clubs in our
area. Several of those had no name on them, and were not in any better (or
worse ) shape than the ones I bought at the box stores. At the one orchid
show I went to, I was not impressed with the ones I saw for sale. They were
ALL, plane jane vanilla orchids, nothing special to them. All of the unusual
ones I saw that I liked were the ones submitted for judging , which were not
for sale, even if I took a day off from work to drive the 30+ miles to that
particular orchid vendors shop.

Naive ? No. I know what to expect when I buy from the box stores. So far
all I have bought from box stores have been pretty healthy and are doing
good. That comes from doing research and carefully inspecting the plants
before making a decision. Box stores are also open at convenient hours. My
local orchid growers are not. Box stores are nearby. My local orchid
growers are not. Box stores allow me to visually see and inspect the item
before buying. Most of my local orchid growers are mail order and you cannot
touch and inspect the plant before buying it . As you said, caveat emptor,
and I am. I am not trying to imply the local / mail order growers are fly by
night, but I do not know them, and plants are one thing I really need to
know the supplier or be able to visually inspect before buying.

This group is not for vendors only. As with all USENET groups it is for
anyone who is interested in the group and wishes to exchange information
(chat or socialize if you will) about their interest. Some of the people
here may be vendors. Some of them are "professional" hobbyists. Some of
them are newbie's looking for more information. I doubt any of them come
here to be verbally attacked, especially me. I get enough of that from my
teenage daughter!

The little smiley at the end of the post, meant it was not a rant, flame or
put down. It was TONGUE IN CHEEK! Maybe I should have used :-J


"K Barrett" wrote in message
. ..
You're naive if you think coming into a group of vendors bragging about a
bunch of [warty] orchids you bought for cheap at Walmart then wanting to
know why they aren't growing and wanting free advice isn't going to raise
some hackles. Get your head out.

So, caveat emptor, Bruce.

And you get what you pay for.

K Barrett

"Bruce Musgrove" wrote in message
...
I don't know... maybe a usenet newsgroup dedicated to that particular item
/ hobby, and full of professionals / amateurs / hobbyists willing to help
others (AKA newbies) learn ? :=)

Wasn't that intent of USENET? a virtual gathering place where users of
similar intersts could electronically share information.


"Kenni Judd" wrote in message
...

snip Where else, besides the
seller, should you first take questions or problems about any product
you've purchased??? Kenni

Nancy, before you get "miffed".

Pat is a vendor who sells orchids and takes enomous amounts of time with his
clients to be sure they understand how to grow their orchids.

Walmart does not.

Now who will answer questions when Walmart forces vendors like Pat out of
business?

Hence the 'go ask Walmart' comment and the agreement with his opinion.

Buy orchids from local vendors.

Now let's get back to orchids and stop this petty crap about being miffed.

K Barrett

"Nancy G." wrote in message
ups.com...

Bruce Musgrove wrote:
I realize I am a amateur but....


Okay, I was a little miffed because someone slammed Walmart and someone
else cheered. You sound like you have a good grip on things. Sorry if
you feel I talked down to you.

Amateur here, too.

K Barrett wrote:
Nancy, before you get "miffed".

Pat is a vendor who sells orchids and takes enomous amounts of time with his
clients to be sure they understand how to grow their orchids.

Walmart does not.

Now who will answer questions when Walmart forces vendors like Pat out of
business?

Hence the 'go ask Walmart' comment and the agreement with his opinion.

Buy orchids from local vendors.

Now let's get back to orchids and stop this petty crap about being miffed.

K Barrett

"Nancy G." wrote in message
ups.com...

Bruce Musgrove wrote:
I realize I am a amateur but....


Okay, I was a little miffed because someone slammed Walmart and someone
else cheered. You sound like you have a good grip on things. Sorry if
you feel I talked down to you.

Amateur here, too.


Hi K, Kenni et al, Amen to K saying "buy from local growers" none of
the "Big Box" people care about orchids or can help with growing or
problems associated with the plants. They are only interested in
undercutting the local growers prices. There are a lot of "so called
growers" who do the same thing. They are not growers they are brokers.
They buy plants & sell them below market prices as they have to "get
rid of them". Support your local grower as--- when the "brokers" put
him / her out of business -- who will help you learn to grow??????????
Good luck, Bill

On 2 Nov 2006 14:49:59 -0800, Bill wrote:
rid of them". Support your local grower as--- when the "brokers" put
him / her out of business -- who will help you learn to grow??????????
Good luck, Bill

I have a feeling these cheap orchids may provide a hook to lure
unsuspecting folks into the dark side of collecting. I would pay
50% more for those big box plants if they just had a tag. I think
for most people they are just table flowers and disposable after
a month or so. Oh, and thank you Trader Joe's for not charging extra
for the mealy bugs.


Bob

We find (by entirely unscientific "survey" of those who talk to us about
orchids) that box store purchases tend to lead to one of two results, in
about equal numbers:

1. The purchaser "graduates" and begins to frequent local growers; or
2. The purchaser decides, based on the poor performance of the box store
purchases, that orchids are "too difficult" and gives up on them.

Kenni


"Robert Lorenzini" wrote in message
...

I have a feeling these cheap orchids may provide a hook to lure
unsuspecting folks into the dark side of collecting. I would pay
50% more for those big box plants if they just had a tag. I think
for most people they are just table flowers and disposable after
a month or so. Oh, and thank you Trader Joe's for not charging extra
for the mealy bugs.


Bob

K Barrett wrote:
Nancy, before you get "miffed".

Pat is a vendor who sells orchids and takes enomous amounts of time with his
clients to be sure they understand how to grow their orchids.

Walmart does not.

Now who will answer questions when Walmart forces vendors like Pat out of
business?


Okay, Okay. Right now for me, there are no local venders. It's a 5
hour drive to St. Louis, 2 hrs to KC, 2 hrs to Springfield. I either
have to order on line or occasionally I purchase at a box store. It's
a mess.

Our local club took a field trip to a Kansas City grower the 24th of
October. That was fun, and yes I bought from him. I was thrilled
because he had an Lc Stephen Oliver Fouraker, in bloom, and agreed to
sell. Soon as I saw the bloom, I was like a bird dog on point. All he
had to do was fire the round, I was ready to retrieve.

It is an interesting place to go. They've converted an old limestone
mine for orchid growing. Everything is under lights and the
environment is absolutely controlled. Most of his trade is blooming
plants. Some nice white phals, Onc Sharry Baby, and tropicals. All
quick sellers. As he put it, not always exciting, but pays the bills.
There were other orchids (big sign NOT FOR SALE), that he kept for his
own gratification or more serious collectors, and some tagged pods
maturing. Maybe in the future he will have some compots or seedlings,
or I will have more money.

I wish there were growers in my area. If Pat was around this area, I'd
probably get on his nerves by being a regular customer. I can see it
now, "Oh no, it's her again. Get a restraining order." The good news
is that while I may beg, I won't switch tags.

The last show I went to was in St. Louis. The venders tables had
nearly the same selections. Bread and milk, easy sales, not
particularly interesting (to me anyway). One vender had cattleyas,
bare root, thrown in a banana box under the table that was used to
restock the 3 or 4 that he displayed on the table. Yes, I bought 1,
but I must have looked at 20 or 30 before I was satisfied that the new
lead growths and root buds looked good. I probably shouldn't have
bought the best of a bad lot. The "S" on my leotard stands for stupid.

Anyway, I'm in a great mood right now. The programmable thermostats
and heaters worked perfectly last night. 2 more nights in the mid 20's
then more moderate temps.

You should read the articles written by Dr. Yin-Tung Wang from Texas A&M
about how to force an orchid to bloom. Then you'll realize what the
wholesaler does to an orchid intended for sale at a box-store and why you'll
probably never be able to get the thing to rebloom for you. Sure people can
do it, even I've done it, but the poor things have been 'ridden hard and put
away wet' so you can't expect too much from them after that sort of
treatment.

http://primera.tamu.edu/orchids/articles.htm

K Barrett

"Nancy G." wrote in message
oups.com...
Okay, Okay. Right now for me, there are no local venders. It's a 5
hour drive to St. Louis, 2 hrs to KC, 2 hrs to Springfield. I either
have to order on line or occasionally I purchase at a box store. It's
a mess.
[snip]