#1   Report Post  
Old 24-02-2003, 10:36 PM
K Barrett
 
Posts: n/a
Default HTML help

Yes, once again I'm asking for help.

Is there a trick that will align text within a table? In both Netscape and
IE. One cell in the table contains a very long list. The second cell is also
a list, but not as long - yet.

See: http://www.aospacificcentral.org/indexlist.html

I *think* my trouble comes from having the text centered in both cells.
Since one list is shorter than the other I had to add paragraph 'spacers' to
the end of it (the 2003 list) in order so the text would be visually aligned
with the text in 2002. Its aligned when I view the page in Netscape, but off
when viewed with Internet explorer. If there's a common technique then I'll
use it. If not then that's the way the cookie crumbles and that's the way
the page stays. I'm not going to obscess over getting the lists to line up.

Thanks!

K Barrett



  #2   Report Post  
Old 24-02-2003, 10:37 PM
Rob Zuiderwijk
 
Posts: n/a
Default HTML help

K,

You might try adding the "valign=top" option to the definition of BOTH
cells, so it would look like the following:

TD BGCOLOR="#f0c98e" WIDTH="50%" valign="top"

In this way you can also remove all the P /P.

Just one thing. This works in MSIE but I don't have Netscape available for
testing this at the moment, so you have to try that yourselves.
I hope it helps to solve you problem.

All the best,

Rob Zuiderwijk

E-Mail :
Website : PhragWeb - The Phragmipedium WebSite.
(
http://www.phragweb.info)


"K Barrett" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
Yes, once again I'm asking for help.

Is there a trick that will align text within a table? In both Netscape and
IE. One cell in the table contains a very long list. The second cell is

also
a list, but not as long - yet.

See: http://www.aospacificcentral.org/indexlist.html

I *think* my trouble comes from having the text centered in both cells.
Since one list is shorter than the other I had to add paragraph 'spacers'

to
the end of it (the 2003 list) in order so the text would be visually

aligned
with the text in 2002. Its aligned when I view the page in Netscape, but

off
when viewed with Internet explorer. If there's a common technique then

I'll
use it. If not then that's the way the cookie crumbles and that's the way
the page stays. I'm not going to obscess over getting the lists to line

up.

Thanks!

K Barrett




  #3   Report Post  
Old 25-02-2003, 02:29 AM
RayC
 
Posts: n/a
Default HTML help

K Barrett wrote:

Yes, once again I'm asking for help.

Is there a trick that will align text within a table? In both Netscape and
IE. One cell in the table contains a very long list. The second cell is also
a list, but not as long - yet.

See: http://www.aospacificcentral.org/indexlist.html

I *think* my trouble comes from having the text centered in both cells.
Since one list is shorter than the other I had to add paragraph 'spacers' to
the end of it (the 2003 list) in order so the text would be visually aligned
with the text in 2002. Its aligned when I view the page in Netscape, but off
when viewed with Internet explorer. If there's a common technique then I'll
use it. If not then that's the way the cookie crumbles and that's the way
the page stays. I'm not going to obscess over getting the lists to line up.

Thanks!

K Barrett


Put valign="top" within the table data td tag and everything in that cell
starts at the top of the cell.


--

Ray Contreras
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Webmonkey for:
http://www.ossystems.com
http://www.bobs-garage.com
http://www.rayzplace.com


  #4   Report Post  
Old 25-02-2003, 02:39 AM
RayC
 
Posts: n/a
Default HTML help

K Barrett wrote:

Yes, once again I'm asking for help.

Is there a trick that will align text within a table? In both Netscape and
IE. One cell in the table contains a very long list. The second cell is also
a list, but not as long - yet.

See: http://www.aospacificcentral.org/indexlist.html

I *think* my trouble comes from having the text centered in both cells.
Since one list is shorter than the other I had to add paragraph 'spacers' to
the end of it (the 2003 list) in order so the text would be visually aligned
with the text in 2002. Its aligned when I view the page in Netscape, but off
when viewed with Internet explorer. If there's a common technique then I'll
use it. If not then that's the way the cookie crumbles and that's the way
the page stays. I'm not going to obscess over getting the lists to line up.

Thanks!

K Barrett


Oh, I forgot to say this in the last one, but it is better to make your table
width 100% instead of a pixel width. That way, the browser sets the table to the
appropriate width for the person looking at your pages. Many people use 640x480
or 1024x768 and your table size is 800x600 specific.

Just my $.02


--

Ray Contreras
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Webmonkey for:
http://www.ossystems.com
http://www.bobs-garage.com
http://www.rayzplace.com


  #5   Report Post  
Old 25-02-2003, 02:51 AM
K Barrett
 
Posts: n/a
Default HTML help

Thank you very very much!! You've saved my life!

K Barrett

Rob Zuiderwijk wrote:

K,

You might try adding the "valign=top" option to the definition of BOTH
cells, so it would look like the following:

TD BGCOLOR="#f0c98e" WIDTH="50%" valign="top"

In this way you can also remove all the P /P.

Just one thing. This works in MSIE but I don't have Netscape available for
testing this at the moment, so you have to try that yourselves.
I hope it helps to solve you problem.

All the best,

Rob Zuiderwijk

E-Mail :
Website : PhragWeb - The Phragmipedium WebSite.
(
http://www.phragweb.info)

"K Barrett" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
Yes, once again I'm asking for help.

Is there a trick that will align text within a table? In both Netscape and
IE. One cell in the table contains a very long list. The second cell is

also
a list, but not as long - yet.

See: http://www.aospacificcentral.org/indexlist.html

I *think* my trouble comes from having the text centered in both cells.
Since one list is shorter than the other I had to add paragraph 'spacers'

to
the end of it (the 2003 list) in order so the text would be visually

aligned
with the text in 2002. Its aligned when I view the page in Netscape, but

off
when viewed with Internet explorer. If there's a common technique then

I'll
use it. If not then that's the way the cookie crumbles and that's the way
the page stays. I'm not going to obscess over getting the lists to line

up.

Thanks!

K Barrett




  #6   Report Post  
Old 25-02-2003, 02:51 AM
K Barrett
 
Posts: n/a
Default HTML help

Thank you very very much! You too have saved my life!! As for the table
width, I guess its a pet peeve of someone else I took advice from: that
the table should be a certain size so your head doesn't have to move
from side to side when you read across it. (For folks with large
monitors...) your eyes do most of the movement.... So that's why I have
a pixel size. For what its worth.

K Barrett

RayC wrote:

K Barrett wrote:

Yes, once again I'm asking for help.

Is there a trick that will align text within a table? In both Netscape and
IE. One cell in the table contains a very long list. The second cell is also
a list, but not as long - yet.

See: http://www.aospacificcentral.org/indexlist.html

I *think* my trouble comes from having the text centered in both cells.
Since one list is shorter than the other I had to add paragraph 'spacers' to
the end of it (the 2003 list) in order so the text would be visually aligned
with the text in 2002. Its aligned when I view the page in Netscape, but off
when viewed with Internet explorer. If there's a common technique then I'll
use it. If not then that's the way the cookie crumbles and that's the way
the page stays. I'm not going to obscess over getting the lists to line up.

Thanks!

K Barrett


Oh, I forgot to say this in the last one, but it is better to make your table
width 100% instead of a pixel width. That way, the browser sets the table to the
appropriate width for the person looking at your pages. Many people use 640x480
or 1024x768 and your table size is 800x600 specific.

Just my $.02

--

Ray Contreras
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Webmonkey for:
http://www.ossystems.com
http://www.bobs-garage.com
http://www.rayzplace.com

  #7   Report Post  
Old 25-02-2003, 11:03 AM
Ray @ First Rays Orchids
 
Posts: n/a
Default HTML help

One problem with setting the width to a percentage of the screen, rather
than a fixed pixel width is that the formatting - or at least the wrapping -
changes dependent on the viewer's monitor. By setting the width to a pixel
size based upon the least common denominator, you know it will be the same
for all.

--

Ray Barkalow First Rays Orchids
http://www.firstrays.com
Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!


"RayC" wrote in message
...
K Barrett wrote:

Yes, once again I'm asking for help.

Is there a trick that will align text within a table? In both Netscape

and
IE. One cell in the table contains a very long list. The second cell is

also
a list, but not as long - yet.

See: http://www.aospacificcentral.org/indexlist.html

I *think* my trouble comes from having the text centered in both cells.
Since one list is shorter than the other I had to add paragraph

'spacers' to
the end of it (the 2003 list) in order so the text would be visually

aligned
with the text in 2002. Its aligned when I view the page in Netscape, but

off
when viewed with Internet explorer. If there's a common technique then

I'll
use it. If not then that's the way the cookie crumbles and that's the

way
the page stays. I'm not going to obscess over getting the lists to line

up.

Thanks!

K Barrett


Oh, I forgot to say this in the last one, but it is better to make your

table
width 100% instead of a pixel width. That way, the browser sets the table

to the
appropriate width for the person looking at your pages. Many people use

640x480
or 1024x768 and your table size is 800x600 specific.

Just my $.02


--

Ray Contreras
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Webmonkey for:
http://www.ossystems.com
http://www.bobs-garage.com
http://www.rayzplace.com




  #8   Report Post  
Old 25-02-2003, 11:15 AM
Geir Harris Hedemark
 
Posts: n/a
Default HTML help

"Ray @ First Rays Orchids" writes:
changes dependent on the viewer's monitor. By setting the width to a pixel
size based upon the least common denominator, you know it will be the same
for all.


Sure, but people like me who have the Monitor From Hell(tm) and are
running at 2000x1600pixels may be a little frustrated when someone
assumes we want to use only 800x600 (or about 15% of the screen
area). The results are usually quite unreadable.

Assuming something about the web clients out there is not a good idea
today.

Geir

  #9   Report Post  
Old 25-02-2003, 12:15 PM
Rob Zuiderwijk
 
Posts: n/a
Default HTML help

Geir,

The size of the table doesn't change the size/readability of the text. A
table build for 800 x 600 would contain the same size characters as a table
that would be set for your 2000 x 1600. It's all in the resolution setting
of your monitor/graphics adapter.

Just my ?0.02.

Rob Zuiderwijk

E-Mail :
Website : PhragWeb - The Phragmipedium WebSite.
(
http://www.phragweb.info)


"Geir Harris Hedemark" wrote in message
...
"Ray @ First Rays Orchids" writes:
changes dependent on the viewer's monitor. By setting the width to a

pixel
size based upon the least common denominator, you know it will be the

same
for all.


Sure, but people like me who have the Monitor From Hell(tm) and are
running at 2000x1600pixels may be a little frustrated when someone
assumes we want to use only 800x600 (or about 15% of the screen
area). The results are usually quite unreadable.

Assuming something about the web clients out there is not a good idea
today.

Geir



  #10   Report Post  
Old 25-02-2003, 12:15 PM
Rob Zuiderwijk
 
Posts: n/a
Default HTML help

Xref: news7 rec.gardens.orchids:41696

I saved your life! I'm glad I did respond as quick as I did. Imagine what
could have happened if I was somewhat later. )

Serious. No problem. Your welcome.

Rob

E-Mail :
Website : PhragWeb - The Phragmipedium WebSite.
(
http://www.phragweb.info)


"K Barrett" wrote in message
...
Thank you very very much!! You've saved my life!

K Barrett


snip




  #11   Report Post  
Old 25-02-2003, 12:27 PM
Geir Harris Hedemark
 
Posts: n/a
Default HTML help

"Rob Zuiderwijk" writes:
The size of the table doesn't change the size/readability of the text. A
table build for 800 x 600 would contain the same size characters as a table
that would be set for your 2000 x 1600. It's all in the resolution setting
of your monitor/graphics adapter.


The glyphs would be the same number of _pixels_, yes.

But when someone runs 2kx1k6 on a 21" monitor, the pixels are much
smaller than on a k8xk6 display on a 17" monitor. I _would_ have liked
to have something along the lines of a 50" monitor, but I don't, and I
would get _such_ a crick in the neck from looking at that large a
monitor from 40cm distance.

In other words, the glyphs put on the screen would be _much_ smaller
than if my default font were used.

Setting the widths of tables in pixels is a nasty thing, and I would
like to pour a glass of cold water down the neck of the person who
thought it would be a good idea.

Geir - gets off the soapbox again

  #12   Report Post  
Old 25-02-2003, 04:15 PM
K Barrett
 
Posts: n/a
Default HTML help

LOL!!!

I love the Phragweb page. I just looked at it for the 1st time in many
years. Wow! Nice work! Not only in the page design but also the
information... hmmm that didn't come out the way I wanted, but the
compliment is there.

Anyway, I'll be placing a link on the aos page when I do my next update.

Kath

"Rob Zuiderwijk" wrote in message
...
I saved your life! I'm glad I did respond as quick as I did. Imagine what
could have happened if I was somewhat later. )

Serious. No problem. Your welcome.

Rob

E-Mail :
Website : PhragWeb - The Phragmipedium WebSite.
(
http://www.phragweb.info)


"K Barrett" wrote in message
...
Thank you very very much!! You've saved my life!

K Barrett


snip




  #13   Report Post  
Old 25-02-2003, 06:53 PM
RayC
 
Posts: n/a
Default HTML help

"Ray @ First Rays Orchids" wrote:

One problem with setting the width to a percentage of the screen, rather
than a fixed pixel width is that the formatting - or at least the wrapping -
changes dependent on the viewer's monitor. By setting the width to a pixel
size based upon the least common denominator, you know it will be the same
for all.

--

Ray Barkalow First Rays Orchids
http://www.firstrays.com
Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!


While that is indeed true, it can be like reading a paper through a telescope if
the table is bigger than your monitor resolution. You have to constantly slide
back and forth just to read the page. I that case the formatting, no matter how
perfect it was laid out, is lost on the reader.

On your own site, for instance, when viewed with a 640x480 resolution, the home
page is just a little large and the infamous slider (scroll bar) appears at the
bottom of the page. On 800x600 it looks perfect and on 1024x768 or bigger, it
just looks like a stripe of information down the center of the page. Plus, it
looks like your webmaster designed for 800x600 for the home page and then used
the 100% table setting for the orchid pictures. See, even your own webmaster
can't figure out what is best!

This was a big time discussion by the HTML Writers Guild some 8 years ago and
most agreed that percentages made more sense in whole page tables.

Just my $.02
--

Ray Contreras
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Webmonkey for:
http://www.ossystems.com
http://www.bobs-garage.com
http://www.rayzplace.com
  #14   Report Post  
Old 25-02-2003, 10:53 PM
Ray @ First Rays Orchids
 
Posts: n/a
Default HTML help

Ray,

No argument about your comments at all, I was simply adding my own two
cents' worth...

As I'm the webmaster, let me share the logic intended for the First Rays
site:

Due to tracking done by my web host, I know that more than 97% of the
visitors to the site use a resolution of 800 x 600 or higher, so I consider
that to be the least common denominator, and as much as possible - when
tabular data seemed appropriate - tried to stick to that. In the cases of
the photos, for which I deemed the readjustment of the material to be
insignificant, I didn't worry about it too much.

I try to be consistent, but as I am a one-man show for a business that's
grown a lot faster than I expected, sometimes I'm just to busy, and I've
just got to not let it worry me.

--

Ray Barkalow First Rays Orchids
http://www.firstrays.com
Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!


"RayC" wrote in message
...
"Ray @ First Rays Orchids" wrote:

One problem with setting the width to a percentage of the screen, rather
than a fixed pixel width is that the formatting - or at least the

wrapping -
changes dependent on the viewer's monitor. By setting the width to a

pixel
size based upon the least common denominator, you know it will be the

same
for all.

--

Ray Barkalow First Rays Orchids
http://www.firstrays.com
Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!


While that is indeed true, it can be like reading a paper through a

telescope if
the table is bigger than your monitor resolution. You have to constantly

slide
back and forth just to read the page. I that case the formatting, no

matter how
perfect it was laid out, is lost on the reader.

On your own site, for instance, when viewed with a 640x480 resolution, the

home
page is just a little large and the infamous slider (scroll bar) appears

at the
bottom of the page. On 800x600 it looks perfect and on 1024x768 or bigger,

it
just looks like a stripe of information down the center of the page. Plus,

it
looks like your webmaster designed for 800x600 for the home page and then

used
the 100% table setting for the orchid pictures. See, even your own

webmaster
can't figure out what is best!

This was a big time discussion by the HTML Writers Guild some 8 years ago

and
most agreed that percentages made more sense in whole page tables.

Just my $.02
--

Ray Contreras
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Webmonkey for:
http://www.ossystems.com
http://www.bobs-garage.com
http://www.rayzplace.com





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