----- Original Message -----
From: Reka
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.orchids
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 10:54 PM
Subject: Water quality


Hi, folks! I am looking for some help from the "scientists" out there. I
have two sets of water data and would like to ask which one is better for
orchids and why, plus what simple things I could do (obviously not RO or
anything spendy) to make it better.

Here are the data:

A B
pH 7.8 8.14
µS/cm 420 353
°D 15.26 12
°F 27.3 21.5
mg/l HCO3 296 250
Nitrate mg/l 7 5.5
Chloride mg/l 2 1
Fluoride mg/l 0.1 0.1
Sulfate 12 6

Am I correct in assuming B is generally better? Any help will be
appreciated.
--
Reka
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
--Winston Churchill


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.478 / Virus Database: 275 - Release Date: 06.05.03

I would vote for B, adjusting the pH downward to the 6.0-6.5 range via
fertilizer alone, or other pH-adjuster additions. The fact is, there's not
THAT much difference.

The HCO3 content may be due to carbonates in the water source's geology, but
can be somewhat affected by gases absorbed from the atmosphere, so may
change. The µS/cm (microSiemens/cm) is a measure of electrical
conductivity, which is related to the dissolved ionic species, hence the
TDS, and both seem fairly high.

--

Ray Barkalow First Rays Orchids
http://www.firstrays.com
Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!


"Wendy" wrote in message
news:kOJza.52826$MJ5.47347@fed1read03...
----- Original Message -----
From: Reka
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.orchids
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 10:54 PM
Subject: Water quality


Hi, folks! I am looking for some help from the "scientists" out there. I
have two sets of water data and would like to ask which one is better for
orchids and why, plus what simple things I could do (obviously not RO or
anything spendy) to make it better.

Here are the data:

A B
pH 7.8 8.14
µS/cm 420 353
°D 15.26 12
°F 27.3 21.5
mg/l HCO3 296 250
Nitrate mg/l 7 5.5
Chloride mg/l 2 1
Fluoride mg/l 0.1 0.1
Sulfate 12 6

Am I correct in assuming B is generally better? Any help will be
appreciated.
--
Reka
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
--Winston Churchill


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.478 / Virus Database: 275 - Release Date: 06.05.03

I agree with Ray on this. High bicarbonate and pH are indicative of hard
water. In itself this is not a bad thing if pH is brought down with the
addition of a bit of an acid, but careful monitoring will be required to
make sure that just enough acidity is added. I would recommend myself using
citric acid instead of strong acids like sulfuric. Citric acid is used in
jam making and can be purchased in bulk at a fairly low price. It is solid
and non toxic, too, a definitive safety bonus. I wonder if this practical in
the long term.

Without pH correction, however, using any of these two sources of water will
cause salt accumulation.This is unsightly on leaves and can be detrimental
for roots. Limestone loving orchids might like the water as is, though.

Note that I'm not familliar with °D and °F (certainly not a temperature).
I wonder what this is.

Marc


"Ray @ First Rays Orchids" a écrit dans le message
de ...
I would vote for B, adjusting the pH downward to the 6.0-6.5 range via
fertilizer alone, or other pH-adjuster additions. The fact is, there's
not
THAT much difference.

The HCO3 content may be due to carbonates in the water source's geology,
but
can be somewhat affected by gases absorbed from the atmosphere, so may
change. The µS/cm (microSiemens/cm) is a measure of electrical
conductivity, which is related to the dissolved ionic species, hence the
TDS, and both seem fairly high.

--

Ray Barkalow First Rays Orchids
http://www.firstrays.com
Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!


"Wendy" wrote in message
news:kOJza.52826$MJ5.47347@fed1read03...
----- Original Message -----
From: Reka
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.orchids
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 10:54 PM
Subject: Water quality


Hi, folks! I am looking for some help from the "scientists" out there.
I
have two sets of water data and would like to ask which one is better
for
orchids and why, plus what simple things I could do (obviously not RO or
anything spendy) to make it better.

Here are the data:

A B
pH 7.8 8.14
µS/cm 420 353
°D 15.26 12
°F 27.3 21.5
mg/l HCO3 296 250
Nitrate mg/l 7 5.5
Chloride mg/l 2 1
Fluoride mg/l 0.1 0.1
Sulfate 12 6

Am I correct in assuming B is generally better? Any help will be
appreciated.
--
Reka
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the
subject."
--Winston Churchill


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.478 / Virus Database: 275 - Release Date: 06.05.03

Okay, I'll see if I can ANSWER
--
Reka
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
--Winston Churchill a post. My originals don't come through.
°F is equal to 5,6mg CaO/l, if that makes any sense to anyone. It doesn't
to me. :-]
How much citric acid should I try???

Thanx,
"Marc Laliberte" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
. ..
I agree with Ray on this. High bicarbonate and pH are indicative of hard
water. In itself this is not a bad thing if pH is brought down with the
addition of a bit of an acid, but careful monitoring will be required to
make sure that just enough acidity is added. I would recommend myself
using
citric acid instead of strong acids like sulfuric. Citric acid is used in
jam making and can be purchased in bulk at a fairly low price. It is solid
and non toxic, too, a definitive safety bonus. I wonder if this practical
in
the long term.

Without pH correction, however, using any of these two sources of water
will
cause salt accumulation.This is unsightly on leaves and can be detrimental
for roots. Limestone loving orchids might like the water as is, though.

Note that I'm not familliar with °D and °F (certainly not a
temperature).
I wonder what this is.

Marc


"Ray @ First Rays Orchids" a écrit dans le message
de ...
I would vote for B, adjusting the pH downward to the 6.0-6.5 range via
fertilizer alone, or other pH-adjuster additions. The fact is, there's
not
THAT much difference.

The HCO3 content may be due to carbonates in the water source's geology,
but
can be somewhat affected by gases absorbed from the atmosphere, so may
change. The µS/cm (microSiemens/cm) is a measure of electrical
conductivity, which is related to the dissolved ionic species, hence the

TDS, and both seem fairly high.

--

Ray Barkalow First Rays Orchids
http://www.firstrays.com
Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!


"Wendy" wrote in message
news:kOJza.52826$MJ5.47347@fed1read03...
----- Original Message -----
From: Reka
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.orchids
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 10:54 PM
Subject: Water quality


Hi, folks! I am looking for some help from the "scientists" out
there.
I
have two sets of water data and would like to ask which one is better
for
orchids and why, plus what simple things I could do (obviously not RO
or
anything spendy) to make it better.

Here are the data:

A B
pH 7.8 8.14
µS/cm 420 353
°D 15.26 12
°F 27.3 21.5
mg/l HCO3 296 250
Nitrate mg/l 7 5.5
Chloride mg/l 2 1
Fluoride mg/l 0.1 0.1
Sulfate 12 6

Am I correct in assuming B is generally better? Any help will be
appreciated.
--
Reka
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the
subject."
--Winston Churchill


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.478 / Virus Database: 275 - Release Date: 06.05.03













---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 19.05.03

Another handy dandy bit of info:
http://www.basf.de/basf/img/produkte...r23_3_2001.pdf -
page 3 is a conversion chart for hardness of water.
--
Reka
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
--Winston Churchill


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 19.05.03

One additional parameter that would be of interest is the calcium
concentration. If the calcium concentration is high enough, it and the HCO3
can be reduced by boiling the water and decanting from the precipitate (CaCO3)
that forms after cooling.

Dave

Ray @ First Rays Orchids ) wrote:
: I would vote for B, adjusting the pH downward to the 6.0-6.5 range via
: fertilizer alone, or other pH-adjuster additions. The fact is, there's not
: THAT much difference.

: The HCO3 content may be due to carbonates in the water source's geology, but
: can be somewhat affected by gases absorbed from the atmosphere, so may
: change. The µS/cm (microSiemens/cm) is a measure of electrical
: conductivity, which is related to the dissolved ionic species, hence the
: TDS, and both seem fairly high.

: --

: Ray Barkalow First Rays Orchids
: http://www.firstrays.com
: Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!


: "Wendy" wrote in message
: news:kOJza.52826$MJ5.47347@fed1read03...
: ----- Original Message -----
: From: Reka
: Newsgroups: rec.gardens.orchids
: Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 10:54 PM
: Subject: Water quality
:
:
: Hi, folks! I am looking for some help from the "scientists" out there. I
: have two sets of water data and would like to ask which one is better for
: orchids and why, plus what simple things I could do (obviously not RO or
: anything spendy) to make it better.
:
: Here are the data:
:
: A B
: pH 7.8 8.14
: µS/cm 420 353
: °D 15.26 12
: °F 27.3 21.5
: mg/l HCO3 296 250
: Nitrate mg/l 7 5.5
: Chloride mg/l 2 1
: Fluoride mg/l 0.1 0.1
: Sulfate 12 6
:
: Am I correct in assuming B is generally better? Any help will be
: appreciated.
: --
: Reka
: http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html
: "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
: --Winston Churchill
:
:
: ---
: Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
: Version: 6.0.478 / Virus Database: 275 - Release Date: 06.05.03
:
:
:
:
:
:
:

Ok, so we have about 25 °F = 250 mg/l of hardness, expressed as CaCO3
(calcium carbonate). That will give us about 100 mg/l expressed as calcium,
or "fairly hard water". It is not so bad, it could be used if the pH was
lowered.

The quantity of citric acid required will be low, in the order of 50 - 100
mg of acid per liter of water. This is so little that it is difficult to
measure outside of a lab. I would suggest preparing a solution of citric
acid in water, using handy measures that you have at home, in the range of
10% by weight of acid in water. That will be about 2 tablespoon per cup.
Then try adding this a couple drops at a time to a liter (quart) of water.
Each drop will contains about 10 mg of acid. About 10 drops will be
required. Mix the water with the acid and let stand for a couple minutes.
Then check the pH. I can't predict the exact amount without having access to
your water, but you shouldn't too off.

Once you have the proper number of drops figured out, you can skip the pH
checking, it should be pretty much the same everytime.

By the way citric acid is great in the dishwashing machine if you have
problems with calcium deposits. A tablespoon once a week will do the job. It
is the same reaction, citric acide reacts with the calcium carbonate and
gives carbon dioxide (a gas) and calcium citrate, which is soluble in water.

I hope this helps.

Marc


"Reka" a écrit dans le message de
...
Okay, I'll see if I can ANSWER
--
Reka
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
--Winston Churchill a post. My originals don't come through.
°F is equal to 5,6mg CaO/l, if that makes any sense to anyone. It
doesn't
to me. :-]
How much citric acid should I try???

Thanx,

Thanks for all the info. We do have hard water here in the Dolomites!
--
Reka
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
--Winston Churchill
"Marc Laliberte" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Ok, so we have about 25 °F = 250 mg/l of hardness, expressed as CaCO3
(calcium carbonate). That will give us about 100 mg/l expressed as
calcium,
or "fairly hard water". It is not so bad, it could be used if the pH was
lowered.

The quantity of citric acid required will be low, in the order of 50 - 100
mg of acid per liter of water. This is so little that it is difficult to
measure outside of a lab. I would suggest preparing a solution of citric
acid in water, using handy measures that you have at home, in the range of
10% by weight of acid in water. That will be about 2 tablespoon per cup.
Then try adding this a couple drops at a time to a liter (quart) of water.
Each drop will contains about 10 mg of acid. About 10 drops will be
required. Mix the water with the acid and let stand for a couple minutes.
Then check the pH. I can't predict the exact amount without having access
to
your water, but you shouldn't too off.

Once you have the proper number of drops figured out, you can skip the pH
checking, it should be pretty much the same everytime.

By the way citric acid is great in the dishwashing machine if you have
problems with calcium deposits. A tablespoon once a week will do the job.
It
is the same reaction, citric acide reacts with the calcium carbonate and
gives carbon dioxide (a gas) and calcium citrate, which is soluble in
water.

I hope this helps.

Marc




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 19.05.03