We have just relocated from Forida to Phoenix, and are managing to
adjust. However, the orchids are not doing so well. We kept them on
the patio of our Florida home, and they seemed to thrive.

We have them in a similar location here in Phoenix, and they are not
doing so well - from my inexperienced eye, I'd say they are looking
awfully yellowish. Does anyone have any suggestions on raising
orchids in an arid environment?

Thanks,

PlainBill

My guess is that Arizona is very hot, dry, arid etc....
I would get some shade cloth, misters & a swamp cooler pronto!
Cheers
"PlainBill" wrote in message
...
We have just relocated from Forida to Phoenix, and are managing to
adjust. However, the orchids are not doing so well. We kept them on
the patio of our Florida home, and they seemed to thrive.

We have them in a similar location here in Phoenix, and they are not
doing so well - from my inexperienced eye, I'd say they are looking
awfully yellowish. Does anyone have any suggestions on raising
orchids in an arid environment?

Thanks,

PlainBill

PlainBill spaketh thusly:

We have just relocated from Forida to Phoenix, and are managing to
adjust. However, the orchids are not doing so well. We kept them on
the patio of our Florida home, and they seemed to thrive.

Welcome to Phoenix, Bill. For each year you live here, they take
off a year's stay in hell. Did you enjoy yesterday's recycling plant fire?
They're getting regular enough you can set your watch by 'em. Wait 'till
it hits 115, and birds spontaneously combust in midflight. If you remember
three things about Phoenix (the 'Arizona' Cardinals are loser parasites,
'Qwest' is absolutely wretched, and if you park your car in the sun you
get what you deserve), everything will be fine.

We have them in a similar location here in Phoenix, and they are not
doing so well - from my inexperienced eye, I'd say they are looking
awfully yellowish. Does anyone have any suggestions on raising
orchids in an arid environment?

What? They were shocked by being removed from Florida to 9%
relative humidity? How could that happen?

First off, Phoenix water is highly saline thanks to the remarkably
unwise irrigation principles followed in the southwest. Get an RO system
if you haven't already. John Talpa (known to peruse the group) can
probably set you up with a water system that'll grow hair on bowling
balls, even with the carbonate sludge that passes for dihydrogen monoxide
down here. Get set up with a "low waste" or "zero waste" system if you
can.

Secondly, if they're on your back porch here in Phoenix, they're
going to be toast in about a week. Today's high is slated to be "only"
102 F. I think yesterday was 108 F. Remember the old formula: higher
temperatures are OK for intermediate and warm-growers, PROVIDED THE
HUMIDITY IS KEPT HIGH. Of course, in an environment where saguaro cacti
are having a rough year of it, I'm going to guess your cattleya and
odontoglossum intergenerics are begging for mercy about now.

There are options, of course. The great paradox of the southwest
is that you get so much light, you need to grow your plants indoors under
artificial lights. Any one of a number of "hydroponics" stores (actually
for indoor dope growers) will be happy to help you. The "Sea of Green" on
University is pretty good. Pay cash to stay off the D.E.A. lists. (John
Ashcroft is watching you!)

The alternative is to purchase some sort of structure, and
swamp-cool the hell out of it. With luck, you can achieve 60% RH, and
using misters you can probably throw that to 75-80% if you try hard
enough. Make sure you have power from SRP (rather than APS- which should
go without saying), or have one hell of a power backup. Either batteries
or solar will be required to make sure that when the power goes out, your
collection does not become compost in 15 minutes. That 15 minutes is
pretty generous- more like 10 once August comes around.

So, in reality, you only have a few things working against you
here in Phoenix- the arid air, the extreme heat, too much light (or not
enough), crappy water, and the possibility that Joe Arpaio will come kick
down your door if he thinks you're growing dope inside. Come to think of
it, I really can't think of a more hostile environment for growing
orchids, south of the Arctic Circle, anyway. Despite this, there are two
orchid societies in the Valley. Drop me a line at (not
the e-mail addy in the header- it doesn't work), and I'll be happy to give
you more information on the twisted, demented souls that insist on growing
orchids under the worst possible conditions.

There is no storefront orchid venue in the entire state. However,
you can get pefectly wretched and mislabeled orchids at "Home Depot" and
"Lowe's" hardware stores. Also try "Trader Joe's." If for no other reason,
go to Trader Joe's for the food. Yum. Makes everything else in town look
like a produce museum.

Oh- one last thing. Those Chilean mesquites look awful nice, and
give great shade, but for heaven's sake PRUNE THE HELL OUT OF THEM.

Cheers,

-AJHicks
Chandler, AZ

The e-mail address in the header doesn't work. Sorry.

On Sun, 8 Jun 2003 20:48:24 -0700, "Wendy"
wrote:

My guess is that Arizona is very hot, dry, arid etc....
I would get some shade cloth, misters & a swamp cooler pronto!
Cheers
Wendy

Bill -
You said they were YELLOWISH... That is too much sun for the
amount of water and fertilizer. Get them some shade.
Also get some mist to raise the humidity and cool the
temperature. Your plants like your skin is reacting to the dry
air. They need more water and more humidity. I would be
surprised if you can grow on your patio. It probably is too hot
and dry. I can not see a way to bring the humidity up to 60-70%
and hold it without walls. Your Florida Orchids are used to
80-100% humidity. They don't know what to do.
There is less environmental filtering of your sunlight. You will
need shade cloth. What is the altitude your at now?
When we moved from Chicago to Colorado we found Mature plants
suddenly doubled in size. They also required 50% shade even in
winter.


SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php

Sue,

Thanks for the useful insite. They plants are currently under a
lattice screen with about 50% coverage. It will be easy to reduce the
amount of sunlight they receive. Humidity will be a problem. Because
of the layout it would be impossible to bring them inside and still
give them sunlight (the roof overhangs the south side of the house
about 15 feet). Phoenix is at about 1400 ft.

PlainBill

On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 22:32:00 -0600, Susan Erickson
wrote:

On Sun, 8 Jun 2003 20:48:24 -0700, "Wendy"
wrote:

My guess is that Arizona is very hot, dry, arid etc....
I would get some shade cloth, misters & a swamp cooler pronto!
Cheers
Wendy

Bill -
You said they were YELLOWISH... That is too much sun for the
amount of water and fertilizer. Get them some shade.
Also get some mist to raise the humidity and cool the
temperature. Your plants like your skin is reacting to the dry
air. They need more water and more humidity. I would be
surprised if you can grow on your patio. It probably is too hot
and dry. I can not see a way to bring the humidity up to 60-70%
and hold it without walls. Your Florida Orchids are used to
80-100% humidity. They don't know what to do.
There is less environmental filtering of your sunlight. You will
need shade cloth. What is the altitude your at now?
When we moved from Chicago to Colorado we found Mature plants
suddenly doubled in size. They also required 50% shade even in
winter.


SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php

Aaron,

Thanks for the encouraging words. I was afraid it was going to take a
little work to get them growing. You make it seem easy! I'm passing
the information on to my wife, and will let you know what kind of
slavery she puts me through.

PlainBill

On 9 Jun 2003 10:54:07 -0600, (Aaron Hicks) wrote:

PlainBill spaketh thusly:

We have just relocated from Forida to Phoenix, and are managing to
adjust. However, the orchids are not doing so well. We kept them on
the patio of our Florida home, and they seemed to thrive.

Welcome to Phoenix, Bill. For each year you live here, they take
off a year's stay in hell. Did you enjoy yesterday's recycling plant fire?
They're getting regular enough you can set your watch by 'em. Wait 'till
it hits 115, and birds spontaneously combust in midflight. If you remember
three things about Phoenix (the 'Arizona' Cardinals are loser parasites,
'Qwest' is absolutely wretched, and if you park your car in the sun you
get what you deserve), everything will be fine.

We have them in a similar location here in Phoenix, and they are not
doing so well - from my inexperienced eye, I'd say they are looking
awfully yellowish. Does anyone have any suggestions on raising
orchids in an arid environment?

What? They were shocked by being removed from Florida to 9%
relative humidity? How could that happen?

First off, Phoenix water is highly saline thanks to the remarkably
unwise irrigation principles followed in the southwest. Get an RO system
if you haven't already. John Talpa (known to peruse the group) can
probably set you up with a water system that'll grow hair on bowling
balls, even with the carbonate sludge that passes for dihydrogen monoxide
down here. Get set up with a "low waste" or "zero waste" system if you
can.

Secondly, if they're on your back porch here in Phoenix, they're
going to be toast in about a week. Today's high is slated to be "only"
102 F. I think yesterday was 108 F. Remember the old formula: higher
temperatures are OK for intermediate and warm-growers, PROVIDED THE
HUMIDITY IS KEPT HIGH. Of course, in an environment where saguaro cacti
are having a rough year of it, I'm going to guess your cattleya and
odontoglossum intergenerics are begging for mercy about now.

There are options, of course. The great paradox of the southwest
is that you get so much light, you need to grow your plants indoors under
artificial lights. Any one of a number of "hydroponics" stores (actually
for indoor dope growers) will be happy to help you. The "Sea of Green" on
University is pretty good. Pay cash to stay off the D.E.A. lists. (John
Ashcroft is watching you!)

The alternative is to purchase some sort of structure, and
swamp-cool the hell out of it. With luck, you can achieve 60% RH, and
using misters you can probably throw that to 75-80% if you try hard
enough. Make sure you have power from SRP (rather than APS- which should
go without saying), or have one hell of a power backup. Either batteries
or solar will be required to make sure that when the power goes out, your
collection does not become compost in 15 minutes. That 15 minutes is
pretty generous- more like 10 once August comes around.

So, in reality, you only have a few things working against you
here in Phoenix- the arid air, the extreme heat, too much light (or not
enough), crappy water, and the possibility that Joe Arpaio will come kick
down your door if he thinks you're growing dope inside. Come to think of
it, I really can't think of a more hostile environment for growing
orchids, south of the Arctic Circle, anyway. Despite this, there are two
orchid societies in the Valley. Drop me a line at (not
the e-mail addy in the header- it doesn't work), and I'll be happy to give
you more information on the twisted, demented souls that insist on growing
orchids under the worst possible conditions.

There is no storefront orchid venue in the entire state. However,
you can get pefectly wretched and mislabeled orchids at "Home Depot" and
"Lowe's" hardware stores. Also try "Trader Joe's." If for no other reason,
go to Trader Joe's for the food. Yum. Makes everything else in town look
like a produce museum.

Oh- one last thing. Those Chilean mesquites look awful nice, and
give great shade, but for heaven's sake PRUNE THE HELL OUT OF THEM.

Cheers,

-AJHicks
Chandler, AZ

The e-mail address in the header doesn't work. Sorry.

One more thing not mentionned so far about AZ is its plant import laws. I
don't know how strictly enforced they are (I have shipped some Vandas to
Phoenix without a problem - the box was not marked "PLANTS"), but I have
read where AZ requires a photosanitary on some items and bans others
completely.
I guess it's always best to check out the laws before bringing any kind of
plant material across state lines. If you neglect this 'rule' and your
shipment is seized, you're the one out of luck. Aaron Hicks could also
probably give you better advice on this since he lives there and deals in
plant material.

"PlainBill" wrote in message
...
We have just relocated from Forida to Phoenix, and are managing to
adjust. However, the orchids are not doing so well. We kept them on
the patio of our Florida home, and they seemed to thrive.

We have them in a similar location here in Phoenix, and they are not
doing so well - from my inexperienced eye, I'd say they are looking
awfully yellowish. Does anyone have any suggestions on raising
orchids in an arid environment?

Thanks,

PlainBill

Aaron -
That is a classic reply. Enjoyed your humor mixed with useful
information.
Weren't you in Davis, CA, at one time?
Tom
--


From: (Aaron Hicks)
Organization: Nyx Net, Free Internet access (www.nyx.net)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.orchids
Date: 9 Jun 2003 10:54:07 -0600
Subject: Orchids in Phoenix, AZ

PlainBill spaketh thusly:

We have just relocated from Forida to Phoenix, and are managing to
adjust. However, the orchids are not doing so well. We kept them on
the patio of our Florida home, and they seemed to thrive.

Welcome to Phoenix, Bill. For each year you live here, they take
off a year's stay in hell. Did you enjoy yesterday's recycling plant fire?
They're getting regular enough you can set your watch by 'em. Wait 'till
it hits 115, and birds spontaneously combust in midflight. If you remember
three things about Phoenix (the 'Arizona' Cardinals are loser parasites,
'Qwest' is absolutely wretched, and if you park your car in the sun you
get what you deserve), everything will be fine.

We have them in a similar location here in Phoenix, and they are not
doing so well - from my inexperienced eye, I'd say they are looking
awfully yellowish. Does anyone have any suggestions on raising
orchids in an arid environment?

What? They were shocked by being removed from Florida to 9%
relative humidity? How could that happen?

First off, Phoenix water is highly saline thanks to the remarkably
unwise irrigation principles followed in the southwest. Get an RO system
if you haven't already. John Talpa (known to peruse the group) can
probably set you up with a water system that'll grow hair on bowling
balls, even with the carbonate sludge that passes for dihydrogen monoxide
down here. Get set up with a "low waste" or "zero waste" system if you
can.

Secondly, if they're on your back porch here in Phoenix, they're
going to be toast in about a week. Today's high is slated to be "only"
102 F. I think yesterday was 108 F. Remember the old formula: higher
temperatures are OK for intermediate and warm-growers, PROVIDED THE
HUMIDITY IS KEPT HIGH. Of course, in an environment where saguaro cacti
are having a rough year of it, I'm going to guess your cattleya and
odontoglossum intergenerics are begging for mercy about now.

There are options, of course. The great paradox of the southwest
is that you get so much light, you need to grow your plants indoors under
artificial lights. Any one of a number of "hydroponics" stores (actually
for indoor dope growers) will be happy to help you. The "Sea of Green" on
University is pretty good. Pay cash to stay off the D.E.A. lists. (John
Ashcroft is watching you!)

The alternative is to purchase some sort of structure, and
swamp-cool the hell out of it. With luck, you can achieve 60% RH, and
using misters you can probably throw that to 75-80% if you try hard
enough. Make sure you have power from SRP (rather than APS- which should
go without saying), or have one hell of a power backup. Either batteries
or solar will be required to make sure that when the power goes out, your
collection does not become compost in 15 minutes. That 15 minutes is
pretty generous- more like 10 once August comes around.

So, in reality, you only have a few things working against you
here in Phoenix- the arid air, the extreme heat, too much light (or not
enough), crappy water, and the possibility that Joe Arpaio will come kick
down your door if he thinks you're growing dope inside. Come to think of
it, I really can't think of a more hostile environment for growing
orchids, south of the Arctic Circle, anyway. Despite this, there are two
orchid societies in the Valley. Drop me a line at (not
the e-mail addy in the header- it doesn't work), and I'll be happy to give
you more information on the twisted, demented souls that insist on growing
orchids under the worst possible conditions.

There is no storefront orchid venue in the entire state. However,
you can get pefectly wretched and mislabeled orchids at "Home Depot" and
"Lowe's" hardware stores. Also try "Trader Joe's." If for no other reason,
go to Trader Joe's for the food. Yum. Makes everything else in town look
like a produce museum.

Oh- one last thing. Those Chilean mesquites look awful nice, and
give great shade, but for heaven's sake PRUNE THE HELL OUT OF THEM.

Cheers,

-AJHicks
Chandler, AZ

The e-mail address in the header doesn't work. Sorry.

I just noticed this on my latest H&R catalog. A whopping $40 for
phytosanitary certifications! Wow! Up from teh usual $25 that I *think*
Hawaii charged.... man o man.

K Barrett

"V_coerulea" wrote in message
...
One more thing not mentionned so far about AZ is its plant import laws. I
don't know how strictly enforced they are (I have shipped some Vandas to
Phoenix without a problem - the box was not marked "PLANTS"), but I have
read where AZ requires a photosanitary on some items and bans others
completely.
I guess it's always best to check out the laws before bringing any kind of
plant material across state lines. If you neglect this 'rule' and your
shipment is seized, you're the one out of luck. Aaron Hicks could also
probably give you better advice on this since he lives there and deals in
plant material.

"PlainBill" wrote in message
...
We have just relocated from Forida to Phoenix, and are managing to
adjust. However, the orchids are not doing so well. We kept them on
the patio of our Florida home, and they seemed to thrive.

We have them in a similar location here in Phoenix, and they are not
doing so well - from my inexperienced eye, I'd say they are looking
awfully yellowish. Does anyone have any suggestions on raising
orchids in an arid environment?

Thanks,

PlainBill

tbell spaketh thusly:

That is a classic reply.

Ah! So, you know Sheriff "Showboat" Arpaio and his six-figure
publicist! Excellent.

Enjoyed your humor mixed with useful information.

Any useful information dervied from anything I write is purely
accidental. If it works for you, there's a good chance it's coincidence.

Weren't you in Davis, CA, at one time?

Wow. You mean visiting? Probably. That would have been back in
'85; I haven't been to California (LA area, specifically) since... '96, I
think it was.

Before moving to the Phoenix area, I lived in Socorro, New Mexico-
a spectacularly wretched place. Aside from the drunk driving, water
shortages, corrupt police, absurd medical care, tire fires, drought, price
gouging, the "produce museums" known as supermarkets there, intermittent
explosions and who-knows-what kind of fallout from research performed for
the past 50 years at EMRTC, and New Mexico Tech itself- which defies
description- yeah, sure. Everything was fine there. 'Cept those matters.
The sunsets were great, I gotta admit that. But you had to drive 70 miles
each way to Albuquerque if you wanted to see a movie, unless it was
showing at the 1-screen theater in town.

To give you a better idea about Socorro, you must understand the
story of Elfego Baca, a self-appointed sheriff who survived a 33-hour
gunfight with 80 cowboys in 1884. With a mail-order tin badge, he arrested
a local cowboy who considered "entertainment" to be making Mexican
citizens dance by firing at their feet.

When approached by several cowboys who wanted their buddy,
McCarty, to be released, Baca shot one cowboy in the knee, and a horse
reared up and crushed the foreman. Baca got away, but when McCarty was
released, Baca was ambushed by a contingent of 80 of cowboys who didn't
see it quite the same way as Baca did. Baca ended up hiding in an empty
house that, most fortunately, had a floor that was 18" below ground level.
In a veritable fusillade of bullets, Baca was shot at with approximately
4,000 rounds into a tiny building; the front door sustained 367 holes
alone. A stick of dynamite was chucked inside. But when dawn arrived, he
started cooking breakfast- still alive, and uninjured. As an interesting
aside, one cowboy made a shield using the door of a cooking stove as
primitive armor, arguably the first time body armor was worn into modern
combat. Baca grazed the man in the head, sending him running. Indeed,
Baca's ability to return fire had caused the cowboys to string up blankets
so they could walk around without getting shot.

Baca was acquited of murder twice from that particular event. If
memory serves, I don't think he was injured in the event. The lesson to be
learned? New Mexicans like their guns (which I have no problem with), but
white men can't shoot. Four thousand rounds into a building the size of
most people's living rooms? Good heavens.

Anyway- that event pretty much defines Socorro, except it would be
a lot harder to find 80 people sufficiently enthused to attempt to murder
someone in that town these days. It's tough to find 80 people that want to
work in Socorro, let alone kill.

Today, the Elfego Baca Golf Shoot memorializes Baca; golfers tee
off from the top of M Mountain, at 7,243' ASL. The "hole" is a helicopter
landing pad, 2,550' below, and about three miles distant. The first shot
can carry 600 yards if done correctly. The next one is this Saturday, 14
June. Top prize is $500, and bragging rights. Mike Stanley has won it most
years; I used to work with him at the EMRTC. He holds the record at 9
strokes.

http://www.hiltonopen.com/Elfego.htm

If memory serves, the Elfego Baca Golf Shoot is considered one of
the two most difficult golf tournaments in the world. The other is in
South Africa, I understand.


-AJHicks
Chandler, AZ