How do you tell when an orchid is blooming size or near blooming size? I
keep seeing leaf span measurements and pot sizes but no real ages or
anything.

Shell

Unfortunately, that's a really tough question, with no "pat" answer.

Factors that must be considered:

1 Genus
2 species, or specific makeup if it's a hybrid
3 variability within the species or hybrid
4 culture

....and probably others.

Let's look at phalaenopsis alone for a moment: a phalaenopsis gigantea will
usually need to have leaves somewhere in the 18" length range before it even
begins "thinking" about blooming, while a lueddemanniana can bloom with 3"
or 4" of total leaf span. Start hybridizing and other variables come out as
well.

I, for example, have a Phal Sogo Redfox - a gigantea hybrid - that didn't
start blooming until it had about three or four 20" leaves, but I have
another plant of the same hybrid (from the same seed capsule) that blooms
regularly on a plant with a 12" leaf span.

One can reasonably safely estimate that a vanda will need to be much larger
and older than a phal to bloom, but I'd bet that a good grower in Florida
can raise a vandaceous plant to grow faster than a phal in my window (they
get very little light, so I have a greenhouse...), making it possible that
the vanda could bloom first. OK, maybe that's pushing the point a bit, but
you see where I was going, especially considering that some places are
getting phals or even paphs to bloom 18 months after flasking!

As another example, I occasionally buy seedlings from H&R in Hawaii. For
them, a plant in a 2" pot may very well be "NBS" and may bloom in a matter
of months, while for me in Pennsylvania, it could be a year or more out for
the same seedling.

Basically it comes down to doing your homework, so you know what's
reasonable to expect for the plant, and understanding the cultural
conditions the plant has had and what it will get once you own it, so you
can guesstimate on the growth rate differences.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"Shell" wrote in message
. com...
How do you tell when an orchid is blooming size or near blooming size? I
keep seeing leaf span measurements and pot sizes but no real ages or
anything.

Shell

"Shell" wrote in message .com...
How do you tell when an orchid is blooming size or near blooming size? I
keep seeing leaf span measurements and pot sizes but no real ages or
anything.

That's because age isn't very useful when dealing with orchids. Since
orchids grow indefinitely, there is typically no way to be certain of
their age. This is especially true of divisions where there is no way
to determine how much material has been removed. The only exception
is with seedlings that still retain all of their immature pseudobulbs.
With such a plant, you can estimate age, but only if you know the
rate at which the plant is producing new growth. When growing a
seedling, you should see each growth significantly larger than the
previous one. As the plant matures, each growth should be the same
size as the previous, never smaller.

"Blooming size" is usually a guess based on a grower's experience with
other plants of that species or hybrid. If the grower has lots of
experience, it may be a very good guess, but there is no way to be
sure. Many orchids will bloom for the first time before they reach
full size, but first-flowering is dependent on many factors (genetics,
skill of the grower, etc). The presence of old inflorescences
indicating that the plant has previously bloomed is the only way for a
beginner to be sure a plant is blooming size.

In my experience, most "blooming size" seedlings will flower within a
range of a few months to a few years given proper growing conditions.
"Near blooming size" plants fall in basically the same range, but all
things being equal, larger seedlings will bloom before smaller
seedlings. Some seedlings will bloom within a year out of flask. For
example, my Coryanthes thivii bloomed about 10 months after it was
deflasked. Other seedlings won't bloom for years or decades if they
are missing some critical requirement in their culture.

Nick
--
myrmecodia-at-yahoo-dot-com

"Myrmecodia" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
om...
"Shell" wrote in message
.com...
How do you tell when an orchid is blooming size or near blooming size?
I
keep seeing leaf span measurements and pot sizes but no real ages or
anything.

That's because age isn't very useful when dealing with orchids. Since
orchids grow indefinitely, there is typically no way to be certain of
their age. This is especially true of divisions where there is no way
to determine how much material has been removed. The only exception
is with seedlings that still retain all of their immature pseudobulbs.

Then there are those growers who plant more than one plant in the same pot
and claim them to be NBS, and buyers who believe them and learn with time
that they are really DFAFBS. (Damn-Far-Away-From-Blooming-Size)
Guess who the buyer was? :-Þ
--
Reka
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
--Winston Churchill
(Hmm-time for a new sig line...)


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.544 / Virus Database: 338 - Release Date: 25.11.03

I have aquired a Catt and an Epi. pseudepidendrum. The Catt is supposed to
be blooming sized and is about 6 inches tall, has what loks like 4
psedubulbs in 3 different sizes. Maybe it will bloom in a year. I hope.
The Epi is still a seedling but an older seedling I think This orchid
stuff is proving to be an adventure

Shell


"Ray" wrote in message
...
Unfortunately, that's a really tough question, with no "pat" answer.

Factors that must be considered:

1 Genus
2 species, or specific makeup if it's a hybrid
3 variability within the species or hybrid
4 culture

...and probably others.

Let's look at phalaenopsis alone for a moment: a phalaenopsis gigantea
will
usually need to have leaves somewhere in the 18" length range before it
even
begins "thinking" about blooming, while a lueddemanniana can bloom with 3"
or 4" of total leaf span. Start hybridizing and other variables come out
as
well.

I, for example, have a Phal Sogo Redfox - a gigantea hybrid - that didn't
start blooming until it had about three or four 20" leaves, but I have
another plant of the same hybrid (from the same seed capsule) that blooms
regularly on a plant with a 12" leaf span.

One can reasonably safely estimate that a vanda will need to be much
larger
and older than a phal to bloom, but I'd bet that a good grower in Florida
can raise a vandaceous plant to grow faster than a phal in my window (they
get very little light, so I have a greenhouse...), making it possible that
the vanda could bloom first. OK, maybe that's pushing the point a bit,
but
you see where I was going, especially considering that some places are
getting phals or even paphs to bloom 18 months after flasking!

As another example, I occasionally buy seedlings from H&R in Hawaii. For
them, a plant in a 2" pot may very well be "NBS" and may bloom in a matter
of months, while for me in Pennsylvania, it could be a year or more out
for
the same seedling.

Basically it comes down to doing your homework, so you know what's
reasonable to expect for the plant, and understanding the cultural
conditions the plant has had and what it will get once you own it, so you
can guesstimate on the growth rate differences.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"Shell" wrote in message
. com...
How do you tell when an orchid is blooming size or near blooming size?
I
keep seeing leaf span measurements and pot sizes but no real ages or
anything.

Shell

I do try to buy orchids advertised as blooming size or even better a
previously bloomed one unless it's something that I'm willing to wait on
like a more unusual type. Or like my flask experiment

Shell


"Myrmecodia" wrote in message
om...
"Shell" wrote in message
.com...
How do you tell when an orchid is blooming size or near blooming size?
I
keep seeing leaf span measurements and pot sizes but no real ages or
anything.

That's because age isn't very useful when dealing with orchids. Since
orchids grow indefinitely, there is typically no way to be certain of
their age. This is especially true of divisions where there is no way
to determine how much material has been removed. The only exception
is with seedlings that still retain all of their immature pseudobulbs.
With such a plant, you can estimate age, but only if you know the
rate at which the plant is producing new growth. When growing a
seedling, you should see each growth significantly larger than the
previous one. As the plant matures, each growth should be the same
size as the previous, never smaller.

"Blooming size" is usually a guess based on a grower's experience with
other plants of that species or hybrid. If the grower has lots of
experience, it may be a very good guess, but there is no way to be
sure. Many orchids will bloom for the first time before they reach
full size, but first-flowering is dependent on many factors (genetics,
skill of the grower, etc). The presence of old inflorescences
indicating that the plant has previously bloomed is the only way for a
beginner to be sure a plant is blooming size.

In my experience, most "blooming size" seedlings will flower within a
range of a few months to a few years given proper growing conditions.
"Near blooming size" plants fall in basically the same range, but all
things being equal, larger seedlings will bloom before smaller
seedlings. Some seedlings will bloom within a year out of flask. For
example, my Coryanthes thivii bloomed about 10 months after it was
deflasked. Other seedlings won't bloom for years or decades if they
are missing some critical requirement in their culture.

Nick
--
myrmecodia-at-yahoo-dot-com

LOL "DFAFBS" I love that I have recently (translate - last night) bought
a Paph glaucophyllum x delenatii which is a division. 5 fans one of which
is previously bloomed, which mature fans, and 1 start. I would expect it
to bloom this summer givin the right environment.

I seem to be choosing plants which require a lot of patience and care right
now. Maybe God is trying to tell me I need more patience and to slow down


Shell


"Reka" wrote in message
...
"Myrmecodia" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
om...
"Shell" wrote in message
.com...
How do you tell when an orchid is blooming size or near blooming size?
I
keep seeing leaf span measurements and pot sizes but no real ages or
anything.

That's because age isn't very useful when dealing with orchids. Since
orchids grow indefinitely, there is typically no way to be certain of
their age. This is especially true of divisions where there is no way
to determine how much material has been removed. The only exception
is with seedlings that still retain all of their immature pseudobulbs.

Then there are those growers who plant more than one plant in the same pot
and claim them to be NBS, and buyers who believe them and learn with time
that they are really DFAFBS. (Damn-Far-Away-From-Blooming-Size)
Guess who the buyer was? :-Þ
--
Reka
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
--Winston Churchill
(Hmm-time for a new sig line...)


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.544 / Virus Database: 338 - Release Date: 25.11.03

"Ray" wrote in message ...


As another example, I occasionally buy seedlings from H&R in Hawaii. For
them, a plant in a 2" pot may very well be "NBS" and may bloom in a matter
of months, while for me in Pennsylvania, it could be a year or more out for
the same seedling.


It also depends on your definitions. I've always understood "blooming
size" to mean it should flower on the next growth or in season, which
may well be up to a year from purchase. And NBS, of course, is
younger still, usually 18-24 months from probable flowering age/size.
But otherwise I agree with what you've said -- it's kind of like
someone asking "when to water" (the answer of course is when the plant
needs it). Without experience, there is no way to judge for yourself
how long the plant will take to flower in your conditions, and even
then, there are always surprises. If you find you can't trust a
grower's description (as a rough guide, of course) and consider it
important information, you need to find (a) new source(s).

MG

"Ray" wrote in message ...


As another example, I occasionally buy seedlings from H&R in Hawaii. For
them, a plant in a 2" pot may very well be "NBS" and may bloom in a matter
of months, while for me in Pennsylvania, it could be a year or more out for
the same seedling.


It also depends on your definitions. I've always understood "blooming
size" to mean it should flower on the next growth or in season, which
may well be up to a year from purchase. And NBS, of course, is
younger still, usually 18-24 months from probable flowering age/size.
But otherwise I agree with what you've said -- it's kind of like
someone asking "when to water" (the answer of course is when the plant
needs it). Without experience, there is no way to judge for yourself
how long the plant will take to flower in your conditions, and even
then, there are always surprises. If you find you can't trust a
grower's description (as a rough guide, of course) and consider it
important information, you need to find (a) new source(s).

MG

A catt 6 inches tall can possibly bloom. I've seen catt intermedia less than
6 inches tall bloom. It realy depends on the plant and growing conditions.
In perfect conditions a plant will bloom faster than in lesser conditions.
I've been taught that light is perhaps the most important tricker for
blooming a cattleya.
Out of my own experience I've noticed that epidendrum pseudepidendrum can
bloom very fast. I've seen some carrying flowers when they were about only 5
inches tall. I believe that light is the tricker for this epidendrum. Igive
my plant a lot of light and it has bloomed and grown at a regular pace.
Hope this helps
Cheers
Peter


"Shell" schreef in bericht
m...
I have aquired a Catt and an Epi. pseudepidendrum. The Catt is supposed
to
be blooming sized and is about 6 inches tall, has what loks like 4
psedubulbs in 3 different sizes. Maybe it will bloom in a year. I hope.
The Epi is still a seedling but an older seedling I think This orchid
stuff is proving to be an adventure

Shell


"Ray" wrote in message
...
Unfortunately, that's a really tough question, with no "pat" answer.

Factors that must be considered:

1 Genus
2 species, or specific makeup if it's a hybrid
3 variability within the species or hybrid
4 culture

...and probably others.

Let's look at phalaenopsis alone for a moment: a phalaenopsis gigantea
will
usually need to have leaves somewhere in the 18" length range before it
even
begins "thinking" about blooming, while a lueddemanniana can bloom with
3"
or 4" of total leaf span. Start hybridizing and other variables come
out
as
well.

I, for example, have a Phal Sogo Redfox - a gigantea hybrid - that
didn't
start blooming until it had about three or four 20" leaves, but I have
another plant of the same hybrid (from the same seed capsule) that
blooms
regularly on a plant with a 12" leaf span.

One can reasonably safely estimate that a vanda will need to be much
larger
and older than a phal to bloom, but I'd bet that a good grower in
Florida
can raise a vandaceous plant to grow faster than a phal in my window
(they
get very little light, so I have a greenhouse...), making it possible
that
the vanda could bloom first. OK, maybe that's pushing the point a bit,
but
you see where I was going, especially considering that some places are
getting phals or even paphs to bloom 18 months after flasking!

As another example, I occasionally buy seedlings from H&R in Hawaii.
For
them, a plant in a 2" pot may very well be "NBS" and may bloom in a
matter
of months, while for me in Pennsylvania, it could be a year or more out
for
the same seedling.

Basically it comes down to doing your homework, so you know what's
reasonable to expect for the plant, and understanding the cultural
conditions the plant has had and what it will get once you own it, so
you
can guesstimate on the growth rate differences.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"Shell" wrote in message
. com...
How do you tell when an orchid is blooming size or near blooming size?
I
keep seeing leaf span measurements and pot sizes but no real ages or
anything.

Shell

Thanks, it does help. The Epi. is about 7 or 8 inches tall and the guy I
got it from said some from the same batch of sedlings were already blooming.
My biggest problem appears to be light right now. I will be getting a good
grow light set up soon though

Shell


"Boystrup Pb, ann,..." wrote in
message . be...
A catt 6 inches tall can possibly bloom. I've seen catt intermedia less
than
6 inches tall bloom. It realy depends on the plant and growing conditions.
In perfect conditions a plant will bloom faster than in lesser conditions.
I've been taught that light is perhaps the most important tricker for
blooming a cattleya.
Out of my own experience I've noticed that epidendrum pseudepidendrum can
bloom very fast. I've seen some carrying flowers when they were about only
5
inches tall. I believe that light is the tricker for this epidendrum.
Igive
my plant a lot of light and it has bloomed and grown at a regular pace.
Hope this helps
Cheers
Peter


"Shell" schreef in bericht
m...
I have aquired a Catt and an Epi. pseudepidendrum. The Catt is supposed
to
be blooming sized and is about 6 inches tall, has what loks like 4
psedubulbs in 3 different sizes. Maybe it will bloom in a year. I
hope.
The Epi is still a seedling but an older seedling I think This
orchid
stuff is proving to be an adventure

Shell


"Ray" wrote in message
...
Unfortunately, that's a really tough question, with no "pat" answer.

Factors that must be considered:

1 Genus
2 species, or specific makeup if it's a hybrid
3 variability within the species or hybrid
4 culture

...and probably others.

Let's look at phalaenopsis alone for a moment: a phalaenopsis
gigantea
will
usually need to have leaves somewhere in the 18" length range before
it
even
begins "thinking" about blooming, while a lueddemanniana can bloom
with
3"
or 4" of total leaf span. Start hybridizing and other variables come
out
as
well.

I, for example, have a Phal Sogo Redfox - a gigantea hybrid - that
didn't
start blooming until it had about three or four 20" leaves, but I have
another plant of the same hybrid (from the same seed capsule) that
blooms
regularly on a plant with a 12" leaf span.

One can reasonably safely estimate that a vanda will need to be much
larger
and older than a phal to bloom, but I'd bet that a good grower in
Florida
can raise a vandaceous plant to grow faster than a phal in my window
(they
get very little light, so I have a greenhouse...), making it possible
that
the vanda could bloom first. OK, maybe that's pushing the point a
bit,
but
you see where I was going, especially considering that some places are
getting phals or even paphs to bloom 18 months after flasking!

As another example, I occasionally buy seedlings from H&R in Hawaii.
For
them, a plant in a 2" pot may very well be "NBS" and may bloom in a
matter
of months, while for me in Pennsylvania, it could be a year or more
out
for
the same seedling.

Basically it comes down to doing your homework, so you know what's
reasonable to expect for the plant, and understanding the cultural
conditions the plant has had and what it will get once you own it, so
you
can guesstimate on the growth rate differences.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"Shell" wrote in message
. com...
How do you tell when an orchid is blooming size or near blooming
size?
I
keep seeing leaf span measurements and pot sizes but no real ages or
anything.

Shell

I don't mind waiting for a plant to bloom for a year or 18 months. I'll
only wait years on the little babies or very young seedlings if they promise
to have a nice bloom, either color or form.

Shell


"Michael Gerzog" wrote in message
om...
"Ray" wrote in message
...


As another example, I occasionally buy seedlings from H&R in Hawaii.
For
them, a plant in a 2" pot may very well be "NBS" and may bloom in a
matter
of months, while for me in Pennsylvania, it could be a year or more out
for
the same seedling.


It also depends on your definitions. I've always understood "blooming
size" to mean it should flower on the next growth or in season, which
may well be up to a year from purchase. And NBS, of course, is
younger still, usually 18-24 months from probable flowering age/size.
But otherwise I agree with what you've said -- it's kind of like
someone asking "when to water" (the answer of course is when the plant
needs it). Without experience, there is no way to judge for yourself
how long the plant will take to flower in your conditions, and even
then, there are always surprises. If you find you can't trust a
grower's description (as a rough guide, of course) and consider it
important information, you need to find (a) new source(s).

MG

I have heard of some plants being like 100 years old or so. Boggles my mind


My Restrepia antennifera was supposed to be a near blooming size and bloomed
about 2 weeks after I got it Just one flower I needed a magnifing glass
to see but it was there I'm looking forward to it blooming again this
summer

Shell


"Myrmecodia" wrote in message
om...
"Shell" wrote in message
.com...
How do you tell when an orchid is blooming size or near blooming size?
I
keep seeing leaf span measurements and pot sizes but no real ages or
anything.

That's because age isn't very useful when dealing with orchids. Since
orchids grow indefinitely, there is typically no way to be certain of
their age. This is especially true of divisions where there is no way
to determine how much material has been removed. The only exception
is with seedlings that still retain all of their immature pseudobulbs.
With such a plant, you can estimate age, but only if you know the
rate at which the plant is producing new growth. When growing a
seedling, you should see each growth significantly larger than the
previous one. As the plant matures, each growth should be the same
size as the previous, never smaller.

"Blooming size" is usually a guess based on a grower's experience with
other plants of that species or hybrid. If the grower has lots of
experience, it may be a very good guess, but there is no way to be
sure. Many orchids will bloom for the first time before they reach
full size, but first-flowering is dependent on many factors (genetics,
skill of the grower, etc). The presence of old inflorescences
indicating that the plant has previously bloomed is the only way for a
beginner to be sure a plant is blooming size.

In my experience, most "blooming size" seedlings will flower within a
range of a few months to a few years given proper growing conditions.
"Near blooming size" plants fall in basically the same range, but all
things being equal, larger seedlings will bloom before smaller
seedlings. Some seedlings will bloom within a year out of flask. For
example, my Coryanthes thivii bloomed about 10 months after it was
deflasked. Other seedlings won't bloom for years or decades if they
are missing some critical requirement in their culture.

Nick
--
myrmecodia-at-yahoo-dot-com

Shell, Ray gave you very good info. To add-on from a different climate:

This could well be the case with tessellata or hybrids thereof, they bloom
early and often. And maybe some Ascocendas like Princess Mikasa [close
race, I think]. But not with most large-flowered standard vanda hybrids
which have lots of sanderiana or coerulea in the ancestry. [I am a Florida
grower, and like to think I'm good G].

One can reasonably safely estimate that a vanda will need to be much
larger
and older than a phal to bloom, but I'd bet that a good grower in Florida
can raise a vandaceous plant to grow faster than a phal in my window (they
get very little light, so I have a greenhouse...), making it possible that
the vanda could bloom first. OK, maybe that's pushing the point a bit,
but
you see where I was going, especially considering that some places are
getting phals or even paphs to bloom 18 months after flasking!

I also sometime get seedlings from H&R. In the case of most large-flowered
catts, it will take me a year or more to bloom them [even in Florida].
Certain types will go much faster, for us mostly the intergeneric mini-catts
involving Broughtonia, and some of the Dens.

As far as judging the ability of grower/vendors to predict when a plant is
blooming-size, you might find the OGRES rating site of interest. If you
don't already have it bookmarked, you can find a link on our Home Page.

Good growing,
--
Kenni Judd
Juno Beach Orchids

http://www.jborchids.com

As another example, I occasionally buy seedlings from H&R in Hawaii. For
them, a plant in a 2" pot may very well be "NBS" and may bloom in a matter
of months, while for me in Pennsylvania, it could be a year or more out
for
the same seedling.

With catts, there is so much variability, it's hard to say without knowing
the hybrid. For example, Slc. Tiny Titan is fully mature at 6" tall, while
Memorial Crispin Rosales is more likely to need to be a foot or more tall.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"Shell" wrote in message
m...
I have aquired a Catt and an Epi. pseudepidendrum. The Catt is supposed
to
be blooming sized and is about 6 inches tall, has what loks like 4
psedubulbs in 3 different sizes. Maybe it will bloom in a year. I hope.
The Epi is still a seedling but an older seedling I think This orchid
stuff is proving to be an adventure

Shell


"Ray" wrote in message
...
Unfortunately, that's a really tough question, with no "pat" answer.

Factors that must be considered:

1 Genus
2 species, or specific makeup if it's a hybrid
3 variability within the species or hybrid
4 culture

...and probably others.

Let's look at phalaenopsis alone for a moment: a phalaenopsis gigantea
will
usually need to have leaves somewhere in the 18" length range before it
even
begins "thinking" about blooming, while a lueddemanniana can bloom with
3"
or 4" of total leaf span. Start hybridizing and other variables come
out
as
well.

I, for example, have a Phal Sogo Redfox - a gigantea hybrid - that
didn't
start blooming until it had about three or four 20" leaves, but I have
another plant of the same hybrid (from the same seed capsule) that
blooms
regularly on a plant with a 12" leaf span.

One can reasonably safely estimate that a vanda will need to be much
larger
and older than a phal to bloom, but I'd bet that a good grower in
Florida
can raise a vandaceous plant to grow faster than a phal in my window
(they
get very little light, so I have a greenhouse...), making it possible
that
the vanda could bloom first. OK, maybe that's pushing the point a bit,
but
you see where I was going, especially considering that some places are
getting phals or even paphs to bloom 18 months after flasking!

As another example, I occasionally buy seedlings from H&R in Hawaii.
For
them, a plant in a 2" pot may very well be "NBS" and may bloom in a
matter
of months, while for me in Pennsylvania, it could be a year or more out
for
the same seedling.

Basically it comes down to doing your homework, so you know what's
reasonable to expect for the plant, and understanding the cultural
conditions the plant has had and what it will get once you own it, so
you
can guesstimate on the growth rate differences.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"Shell" wrote in message
. com...
How do you tell when an orchid is blooming size or near blooming size?
I
keep seeing leaf span measurements and pot sizes but no real ages or
anything.

Shell