Is it better to over size your pipe or undersize your pipe?

Here is my predicament.

I am slowly working on my plan for my pond now, but I can expect I will have
it dug before I am ready to buy the pumps and other gear. I plan to shop
around a bit. So I want to run the pipes for the skimmer and the bottom
drain, etc., but if I have not decided on a pump yet, I figured this would
be a problem.

Should I just run twin 2 inch PVC pipes and use both if I need the 4 inches
of bandwidth, and cap one if I don't?

--
BenignVanilla
tibetanbeefgarden.com
x-no-archive: yes

Remove MY SPLEEN to email me.

BenignVanilla wrote:

Is it better to over size your pipe or undersize your pipe?

Here is my predicament.

I am slowly working on my plan for my pond now, but I can expect I will have
it dug before I am ready to buy the pumps and other gear. I plan to shop
around a bit. So I want to run the pipes for the skimmer and the bottom
drain, etc., but if I have not decided on a pump yet, I figured this would
be a problem.

Should I just run twin 2 inch PVC pipes and use both if I need the 4 inches
of bandwidth, and cap one if I don't?

--
BenignVanilla
tibetanbeefgarden.com
x-no-archive: yes

Remove MY SPLEEN to email me.


1st, 2"+2" doesnt = 4"
a 2.25" or 2.5" would be fine.

in pipe sizing the next step up is close to
double the cap.
i.e. a 1.5" pipe is 1/2 the cap. of a 2"


doubters:
take a 12" piece of ea. (capped at 1 end and
fill the smaller w/ water, then pour it into
the next size. surprising huh?



--
http://www.kencofish.com Ken Arnold, 401-781-9642
Importer/Exporter of Goldfish,Koi,rare Predators
Shipping to legal states/countries only!
Permalon liners, Oase & Supreme Pondmaster pumps


Please Note: No trees or animals were harmed in the
sending of this contaminant free message We do concede
that a signicant number of electrons may have been
inconvenienced.

You're right. I will!!!

Michael Fermanis
New Orleans, Louisiana USA (Remove the RICE to reply)
================================================== =================
"Louisiana's first Catholic bishop...arrived in 1795 to find his
new diocese "completely depraved" and rife with "prostitution,
adultery, miscegenation and riotous living." Other observers,
though, found in New Orleans an intriguing appeal."
Ron Thibodeaux in The Times-Picayune
================================================== =================



"Tracy" wrote in message
...
Since your're from New Orleans, it would be more appropriate to remove
the RICE to reply.

MLF wrote:

"KenCo" wrote:


in pipe sizing the next step up is close to
double the cap.
i.e. a 1.5" pipe is 1/2 the cap. of a 2"
doubters:
take a 12" piece of ea. (capped at 1 end and
fill the smaller w/ water, then pour it into
the next size. surprising huh?




You are correct. As everyone knows, pi are squared.
(Cornbread are squared too, but birthday cake are round.)


Michael Fermanis
New Orleans, Louisiana USA (Remove the POTATO to reply)
================================================= ==========

BenignVanilla wrote:
Is it better to over size your pipe or undersize your pipe?

Here is my predicament.

I am slowly working on my plan for my pond now, but I can expect I will have
it dug before I am ready to buy the pumps and other gear. I plan to shop
around a bit. So I want to run the pipes for the skimmer and the bottom
drain, etc., but if I have not decided on a pump yet, I figured this would
be a problem.

Should I just run twin 2 inch PVC pipes and use both if I need the 4 inches
of bandwidth, and cap one if I don't?

--
BenignVanilla
tibetanbeefgarden.com
x-no-archive: yes

Remove MY SPLEEN to email me.


BV

go with the largest pipe you can, my mag drives have 1 in outlets but to
get full capacity(GPH) out of them I use 2 in pipe, Im redesigning the
filters and moving em farther from the pond so am planing on going to
4-6 in pipe



--
John Rutz

I'm not Porg am not am not am so
see my pond at:
http://www.fuerjefe.com

Since your're from New Orleans, it would be more appropriate to remove
the RICE to reply.

MLF wrote:

"KenCo" wrote:


in pipe sizing the next step up is close to
double the cap.
i.e. a 1.5" pipe is 1/2 the cap. of a 2"
doubters:
take a 12" piece of ea. (capped at 1 end and
fill the smaller w/ water, then pour it into
the next size. surprising huh?




You are correct. As everyone knows, pi are squared.
(Cornbread are squared too, but birthday cake are round.)


Michael Fermanis
New Orleans, Louisiana USA (Remove the POTATO to reply)
================================================= ==========

John's the man.

Pipe size has more to think about the water capacity. More important is
the drag the pipe imparts on the water (static head). In general big pipes
move more water then smaller pumps given the same size pump. Also
large radius elbows are better then small radius ones. In general (again)
sewer parts tend to provide the right parts for the job.

Howard


"John Rutz" wrote in message
...


BenignVanilla wrote:
Is it better to over size your pipe or undersize your pipe?

Here is my predicament.

I am slowly working on my plan for my pond now, but I can expect I will
have
it dug before I am ready to buy the pumps and other gear. I plan to shop
around a bit. So I want to run the pipes for the skimmer and the bottom
drain, etc., but if I have not decided on a pump yet, I figured this
would
be a problem.

Should I just run twin 2 inch PVC pipes and use both if I need the 4
inches
of bandwidth, and cap one if I don't?

--
BenignVanilla
tibetanbeefgarden.com
x-no-archive: yes

Remove MY SPLEEN to email me.


BV

go with the largest pipe you can, my mag drives have 1 in outlets but to
get full capacity(GPH) out of them I use 2 in pipe, Im redesigning the
filters and moving em farther from the pond so am planing on going to
4-6 in pipe



--
John Rutz

I'm not Porg am not am not am so
see my pond at:
http://www.fuerjefe.com

"John Rutz" wrote in message
...
snip
go with the largest pipe you can, my mag drives have 1 in outlets but to
get full capacity(GPH) out of them I use 2 in pipe, Im redesigning the
filters and moving em farther from the pond so am planing on going to
4-6 in pipe

So 4'' for my bottom drains, skimmer, filter, all runs?

BV.

BenignVanilla wrote:
"John Rutz" wrote in message
...
snip

go with the largest pipe you can, my mag drives have 1 in outlets but to
get full capacity(GPH) out of them I use 2 in pipe, Im redesigning the
filters and moving em farther from the pond so am planing on going to
4-6 in pipe


So 4'' for my bottom drains, skimmer, filter, all runs?

BV.


yup that way almost no added head due to lenth of pipe run

--
John Rutz

I'm not Porg am not am not am so
see my pond at:
http://www.fuerjefe.com

"John Rutz" wrote in message
...
snip

So 4'' for my bottom drains, skimmer, filter, all runs?

snip

yup that way almost no added head due to lenth of pipe run

snip

I assume that it is safe to bury these pipes? I plan to lay the bottom
drains before I line the pond, and then cut the liner to fit around the
pipes. So some weight of the pond will be on these pipes.

I am also curious, as I have not investigated pumps yet, as to what the
standard fitting size is for a pump? I assuming it is not a 4'' connection
point. So is downsizing from 4'' to 2'' a problem?

BV.

"BenignVanilla" wrote:

"John Rutz" wrote in message
...
snip
go with the largest pipe you can, my mag drives have 1 in outlets but to
get full capacity(GPH) out of them I use 2 in pipe, Im redesigning the
filters and moving em farther from the pond so am planing on going to
4-6 in pipe

So 4'' for my bottom drains, skimmer, filter, all runs?

Some of that depends on the parts you select. IE I've seen in pond
skimmers, that hook up to inch and half. Kinda a waste to run 4 inch
pipe only to neck it down that much, since most pumps don't take that
either.

4 inch is good for gravity flow lines, pressure lines, those connected
up to a pump, are usually smaller, based on the size the pump takes.

Typically it is feasable, and desirable to go up one pipe size from the
fitting, thus an 1.25" threaded pump output, would go to a
1.25NPTto1.5slip PVC fitting, and be plumbed with 1.5 inch pvc pipe.

That is how I have my current setup, an in pond pump goes out with that
fitting, 1.5 inch flex pvc to 1.5 inch sched 40 that feeds my upflow
filter (150 gal stock tank) which exits via a 3" pvc pipe, up near the
top of the tank.

Now of course, your pond and pumps might be sized for 4 or 6 inch PVC.
I have a piece of 12" sched 80 PVC that was donated by a buddy as
surplus from work, it is going to be a while before I need to use that
in MY pond. G

"John Hines" wrote in message
...
snip
Some of that depends on the parts you select. IE I've seen in pond
skimmers, that hook up to inch and half. Kinda a waste to run 4 inch
pipe only to neck it down that much, since most pumps don't take that
either.
snip

So what you are saying...that my plan of run all my pipes and figure on a
pump later could be a bad idea?

BV.

Big pipes have less resistance to water flow then smaller pipes.
Water travels through the pump a lot faster then you want to
push or pull it through the pipes. The larger pipe diameter allows
the water to flow at a slower (less friction) pace.

The only downside to a larger pipe diameter is that if you slow
the water too much solids might settle out on the bottom of the
pipes. I doubt that this would be a problem given any reasonable
pump selection.

Howard

"BenignVanilla" wrote in
message ...
"John Hines" wrote in message
...
snip
Some of that depends on the parts you select. IE I've seen in pond
skimmers, that hook up to inch and half. Kinda a waste to run 4 inch
pipe only to neck it down that much, since most pumps don't take that
either.
snip

So what you are saying...that my plan of run all my pipes and figure on a
pump later could be a bad idea?

BV.

BenignVanilla wrote:
"John Hines" wrote in message
... snip

Some of that depends on the parts you select. IE I've seen in pond
skimmers, that hook up to inch and half. Kinda a waste to run 4
inch pipe only to neck it down that much, since most pumps don't
take that either.

snip

So what you are saying...that my plan of run all my pipes and figure
on a pump later could be a bad idea?

BV.

yes they can be burried all you neeed is the adaptors from pump
usualy 1 in to the 4 in pipe takes usualy depending on your lowes or
home depot or pipe and pump supply a 1 to 1.5 then a 1.5 to 2( these
you can find in white pvc)and a 2 to 4 here you need to hit the swer
conections black pvc or grey electical PVC I use a flex tube from the
pump to the adaptors so there is no strain on the pump when pulling it
for cleaning


--
John Rutz

I'm not Porg am not am not am so
see my pond at:
http://www.fuerjefe.com

"BenignVanilla" writes:
So 4'' for my bottom drains, skimmer, filter, all runs?

Note that 20 feet of 4 inch pipe holds 131 gallons of water.
That's as much as three 50 gallon barrel filters typically hold.
If this is above the water line of the pond, and if it's a small pond,
it'll lower the pond after the pump is turned on. And if power is
lost, it'll drain back through the pump and overflow a small pond.

If you have any idea of the size that of your pond will be, (ball park idea)
figure out approximate gallons. You should run about 1/2 of your pond volume
through the filter per hour. That will give you an approximate flow rate,
then go to http://www.geocities.com/researchtri.../hydrodyn.html
to get an idea of the pipe size that should be used for that flow rate. Hope
this helps.
Paul

"BenignVanilla" wrote in
message ...
Is it better to over size your pipe or undersize your pipe?

Here is my predicament.

I am slowly working on my plan for my pond now, but I can expect I will
have
it dug before I am ready to buy the pumps and other gear. I plan to shop
around a bit. So I want to run the pipes for the skimmer and the bottom
drain, etc., but if I have not decided on a pump yet, I figured this would
be a problem.

Should I just run twin 2 inch PVC pipes and use both if I need the 4
inches
of bandwidth, and cap one if I don't?

--
BenignVanilla
tibetanbeefgarden.com
x-no-archive: yes

Remove MY SPLEEN to email me.