Al, you don't specify what you want to use it for, but the upper
speed is going to be way too high for tissue culture work with orchids.

Keep in mind that some orchids don't like 24 hr/day cycles for
tumbling. Some do best with a few hours on, followed by a few hours off.

I think there are plans on the web somewhere for do-it-yourself
rigs; ditto with eBay and Labx. Save some bucks.

-AJHicks
Chandler, AZ

Al, you don't specify what you want to use it for, but the upper
speed is going to be way too high for tissue culture work with orchids.

Keep in mind that some orchids don't like 24 hr/day cycles for
tumbling. Some do best with a few hours on, followed by a few hours off.

I think there are plans on the web somewhere for do-it-yourself
rigs; ditto with eBay and Labx. Save some bucks.

-AJHicks
Chandler, AZ

My goal is to expand my experience with stem propagation of Phals by
actually excising the node and attempting to multiply the meristematic
tissue in a liquid media but I probably won't stop there. I was thinking of
a roller drum because it looks neat. :-) A shaker table is probably more
within my budget.

Are Phals orchids which like or dislike a 24 hour light cycle during the
multiplication phase?

I have a book called Micropropagation of Orchids by Arditti and Ernst
published in 1993. It outlines research on propagation techniques for many
orchids by genera and provides a kind of history of propagation for most but
I have been told several times that it is dated and newer info is available
to augment what was compiled in this book. I don't have this newer info at
my fingertips or really know where to get it. :-( Anyway, dated or not, I
will turn to it once I assemble all the little gadgets I need for this mad
experiment.

Thank you to everybody who offered input. If there is more to come I will
be on the look out for it.


"Aaron Hicks" wrote in message
...

Al, you don't specify what you want to use it for, but the upper
speed is going to be way too high for tissue culture work with orchids.

Keep in mind that some orchids don't like 24 hr/day cycles for
tumbling. Some do best with a few hours on, followed by a few hours off.

I think there are plans on the web somewhere for do-it-yourself
rigs; ditto with eBay and Labx. Save some bucks.

-AJHicks
Chandler, AZ

Sans spam, "Al" spaketh thusly:

My goal is to expand my experience with stem propagation of Phals by
actually excising the node and attempting to multiply the meristematic
tissue in a liquid media but I probably won't stop there. I was thinking
of a roller drum because it looks neat. :-) A shaker table is probably
more within my budget.

Probably. The do-it-yourself ones aren't too expensive.

I have a book called Micropropagation of Orchids by Arditti and Ernst
published in 1993.

A very valuable tome; I think they sell for $250-300 right now, if
you can find one. Arditti is currently working on a follow-up. However,
the 1993 text is ancient history, and there are other problems with it as
well.

It outlines research on propagation techniques for many orchids by genera
and provides a kind of history of propagation for most but I have been
told several times that it is dated and newer info is available to
augment what was compiled in this book. I don't have this newer info
at my fingertips or really know where to get it. :-(

The briefest of "Agricola" searches turned up the following
references that may be of value- provided, of course, you can get them.

AU: Park,-S.Y.; Murthy,-H.N.; Paek,-K.Y.
TI: Protocorm-like body induction and subsequent plant regeneration from
root tip cultures of Doritaenopsis.
SO: Plant-sci. Oxford, UK : Elsevier Science Ltd. June 2003. v. 164 (6) p.
919-923.

AU: Chen,-Y.C.; Chang,-C.; Chang,-W.C.
TI: A reliable protocol for plant regeneration from callus culture of
Phalaenopsis.
SO: In-vitro-cell-dev-biol,-Plant. Largo, MD : Society for In Vitro
Biology. Sept/Oct 2000. v. 36 (5) p. 420-423.

AU: Park,-S.Y.; Murthy,-H.N.; Paek,-K.Y.
TI: Rapid propagation of Phalaenopsis from floral stalk-derived leaves.
SO: In-vitro-cell-dev-biol,-Plant. Largo, MD : Society for In Vitro
Biology. Mar/Apr 2002. v. 38 (2) p. 168-172.

AU: Tokuhara,-K.; Mii,-M.
TI: Induction of embryogenic callus and cell suspension culture from shoot
tips excised from flower stalk buds of Phalaenopsis (Orchidaceae).
SO: In-vitro-cell-dev-biol,-Plant. Largo, MD : Society for In Vitro
Biology. July/Aug 2001. v. 37 (4) p. 457-461.

AU: Young,-P.S.; Murthy,-H.N.; Yoeup,-P.K.
TI: Mass multiplication of protocorm-like bodies using bioreactor system
and subsequent plant regeneration in Phalaenopsis.
SO: Plant-cell,-tissue-organ-cult. Dordrecht, The Netherlands : Kluwer
Academic Publishers. 2000. v. 63 (1) p. 67-72.

AU: Ishii,-Y.; Takamura,-T.; Goi,-M.; Tanaka,-M.
TI: Callus induction and somatic embryogenesis of Phalaenopsis.
SO: Plant-cell-rep. Berlin, W. Ger. : Springer International. Apr 1998. v.
17 (6/7) p. 446-450.

AU: Duan,-J.X.; Chen,-H.; Yazawa,-S.
TI: In vitro propagation of Phalaenopsis via culture of cytokinin-induced
nodes.
SO: J-plant-growth-reg. New York : Springer-Verlag New York, c1982-.
Summer 1996. v. 15 (3) p. 133-137.

Any decent library (by "decent" I mean "slightly larger than the
Library of Congress") should carry some of these journals.

A few caveats should be disclosed.

1) Many of these papers are written by people that have absolutely
no clue what they're doing. One of the seminal papers on protocorm
multiplication of paphiopedilums spells the clonal names of one of the
parents two different ways, and neither of them is apparently correct. For
a paper published by Kluwer (who presumably reads the stuff they print
before they do so), it's inexcusable. Things get worse from there, as
cursory review of the literature shows that the researchers often use
formulae so crude or antiquated that they may as well have been banging
rocks together trying to get results. Anyone regularly performing orchid
work would certainly have used media that were better suited to the work
at hand.

2) Researchers don't always tip their hand. Rule 2a is that nobody
who actually *does* the work would publish how they do it, including
commercial propagators who have no interest in publishing. Spending
hundreds or thousands of hours to develop the next quantum leap in
technology is going to publish it for all to see. Even if they did,
publication can take a year or more, by which time their work should have
been leapfrogged- unless, of course, it was just someone doing a quickie
master's or doctoral thesis that managed to get their work published. In
this case, the work is probably abandoned with great relief. Rule 2b is
that the people who publish it usually haven't done the work, so they
rely on the technicians who do the work. So, before it gets sent to the
publisher, the research is ALREADY second-hand!

3) There is no rule 3.

4) It's ALWAYS cheaper to outsource the work to someone else. Of
course, cheaper doesn't equal better; nobody takes better care of your
plants than you do.

Anyway- have fun. If there are any references you absolutely,
positively can't get, drop me a line and I'll see what I can do.

Do not reply to the e-mail address in the header. It's a spam
trap, sent straight to the FTC. Have a day.

Cheers,

-AJHicks
Chandler, AZ

Hey Al,

Seems we are going down about the same route. I have been playing around
with this for about 9 months with limited success. I found Arditti a good
starting point but have really just been winging it once I got started. One
thing going in our favor is that there are a couple of companies selling
premixed medias. The web site for PhytoTech NZ or Aust was helpful in
suggesting changes to the standard mult mix when using it for Phals. Both
G&B and PhytoTech said they had someone who could help me, but in both cases
I have been unable to reach these people (always out of country or not in
today).

I have a shaker table so I really am not much help with the drum speed. I
assumed the low speed unit was what you wanted until I looked at the speed I
run the shaker at. ( I know the speed by the sound and how the tissue moves
in the flask and not by rpm.) Any ways I tend to run the shaker at 60 to
100 rpm. This is about the same speed I use for cloning Cats and Oncs.
Given that speed, I am not sure the tissue will roll in the culture tubes
with the low speed drum, I would call the company before buying either.

That being said, I have not used the shaker for the last 4 or 5 months
because I was having better luck with solid media. One of the protocols in
Arditti starts in a shaker, but quickly moves to solid media --I guess this
is the route I have gone. Funny but I am having better luck with older
media. I get my best multiplication after a dark ring has formed around the
tissue. I have yet to kill the tissue from the phenyols but I am sure I
will push it too long one of these days.

Currently I am learning by trial and error the size the tissue should be
before dividing and where the dividing should be done. I was losing a fair
amount of tissue after cutting it up. I cut back on dividing and really
slowed the process down. I have yet to find a balance I am happy with and
wonder if the freshly cut tissue should be treated with something before
being placed back on the media.

Do not be too hard on yourself when measuring your success. I have found
that when sending Phals out for cloning, a batch of 500 plants will take 2
to 3 years before flasks are returned.

Pat

"Al" wrote in message
news
My goal is to expand my experience with stem propagation of Phals by
actually excising the node and attempting to multiply the meristematic
tissue in a liquid media but I probably won't stop there. I was thinking
of
a roller drum because it looks neat. :-) A shaker table is probably more
within my budget.

Are Phals orchids which like or dislike a 24 hour light cycle during the
multiplication phase?

I have a book called Micropropagation of Orchids by Arditti and Ernst
published in 1993. It outlines research on propagation techniques for
many
orchids by genera and provides a kind of history of propagation for most
but
I have been told several times that it is dated and newer info is
available
to augment what was compiled in this book. I don't have this newer info
at
my fingertips or really know where to get it. :-( Anyway, dated or not,
I
will turn to it once I assemble all the little gadgets I need for this mad
experiment.

Thank you to everybody who offered input. If there is more to come I will
be on the look out for it.


"Aaron Hicks" wrote in message
...

Al, you don't specify what you want to use it for, but the upper
speed is going to be way too high for tissue culture work with orchids.

Keep in mind that some orchids don't like 24 hr/day cycles for
tumbling. Some do best with a few hours on, followed by a few hours off.

I think there are plans on the web somewhere for do-it-yourself
rigs; ditto with eBay and Labx. Save some bucks.

-AJHicks
Chandler, AZ

OK I admit I'm an idiot dolt when it comes to stem props, but I do have the
memory of an elephant, and my friend Ed Wright never mentioned a shaker
tables or any othe sort of table when he wrote his synopsis of stem props
for OrchidSafari http://www.geocities.com/~marylois/archiv23.html

Granted you may be doing these en masse, but even still....

K Barrett

"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
...
Hey Al,

Seems we are going down about the same route. I have been playing around
with this for about 9 months with limited success. I found Arditti a good
starting point but have really just been winging it once I got started.
One
thing going in our favor is that there are a couple of companies selling
premixed medias. The web site for PhytoTech NZ or Aust was helpful in
suggesting changes to the standard mult mix when using it for Phals. Both
G&B and PhytoTech said they had someone who could help me, but in both
cases
I have been unable to reach these people (always out of country or not in
today).

I have a shaker table so I really am not much help with the drum speed. I
assumed the low speed unit was what you wanted until I looked at the speed
I
run the shaker at. ( I know the speed by the sound and how the tissue
moves
in the flask and not by rpm.) Any ways I tend to run the shaker at 60 to
100 rpm. This is about the same speed I use for cloning Cats and Oncs.
Given that speed, I am not sure the tissue will roll in the culture tubes
with the low speed drum, I would call the company before buying either.

That being said, I have not used the shaker for the last 4 or 5 months
because I was having better luck with solid media. One of the protocols
in
Arditti starts in a shaker, but quickly moves to solid media --I guess
this
is the route I have gone. Funny but I am having better luck with older
media. I get my best multiplication after a dark ring has formed around
the
tissue. I have yet to kill the tissue from the phenyols but I am sure I
will push it too long one of these days.

Currently I am learning by trial and error the size the tissue should be
before dividing and where the dividing should be done. I was losing a
fair
amount of tissue after cutting it up. I cut back on dividing and really
slowed the process down. I have yet to find a balance I am happy with and
wonder if the freshly cut tissue should be treated with something before
being placed back on the media.

Do not be too hard on yourself when measuring your success. I have found
that when sending Phals out for cloning, a batch of 500 plants will take 2
to 3 years before flasks are returned.

Pat

"Al" wrote in message
news
My goal is to expand my experience with stem propagation of Phals by
actually excising the node and attempting to multiply the meristematic
tissue in a liquid media but I probably won't stop there. I was
thinking
of
a roller drum because it looks neat. :-) A shaker table is probably
more
within my budget.

Are Phals orchids which like or dislike a 24 hour light cycle during the
multiplication phase?

I have a book called Micropropagation of Orchids by Arditti and Ernst
published in 1993. It outlines research on propagation techniques for
many
orchids by genera and provides a kind of history of propagation for most
but
I have been told several times that it is dated and newer info is
available
to augment what was compiled in this book. I don't have this newer info
at
my fingertips or really know where to get it. :-( Anyway, dated or
not,
I
will turn to it once I assemble all the little gadgets I need for this
mad
experiment.

Thank you to everybody who offered input. If there is more to come I
will
be on the look out for it.


"Aaron Hicks" wrote in message
...

Al, you don't specify what you want to use it for, but the upper
speed is going to be way too high for tissue culture work with
orchids.

Keep in mind that some orchids don't like 24 hr/day cycles for
tumbling. Some do best with a few hours on, followed by a few hours
off.

I think there are plans on the web somewhere for do-it-yourself
rigs; ditto with eBay and Labx. Save some bucks.

-AJHicks
Chandler, AZ

OK I admit I'm an idiot dolt when it comes to stem props, but I do have the
memory of an elephant, and my friend Ed Wright never mentioned a shaker
tables or any othe sort of table when he wrote his synopsis of stem props
for OrchidSafari http://www.geocities.com/~marylois/archiv23.html

Granted you may be doing these en masse, but even still....

K Barrett

"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
...
Hey Al,

Seems we are going down about the same route. I have been playing around
with this for about 9 months with limited success. I found Arditti a good
starting point but have really just been winging it once I got started.
One
thing going in our favor is that there are a couple of companies selling
premixed medias. The web site for PhytoTech NZ or Aust was helpful in
suggesting changes to the standard mult mix when using it for Phals. Both
G&B and PhytoTech said they had someone who could help me, but in both
cases
I have been unable to reach these people (always out of country or not in
today).

I have a shaker table so I really am not much help with the drum speed. I
assumed the low speed unit was what you wanted until I looked at the speed
I
run the shaker at. ( I know the speed by the sound and how the tissue
moves
in the flask and not by rpm.) Any ways I tend to run the shaker at 60 to
100 rpm. This is about the same speed I use for cloning Cats and Oncs.
Given that speed, I am not sure the tissue will roll in the culture tubes
with the low speed drum, I would call the company before buying either.

That being said, I have not used the shaker for the last 4 or 5 months
because I was having better luck with solid media. One of the protocols
in
Arditti starts in a shaker, but quickly moves to solid media --I guess
this
is the route I have gone. Funny but I am having better luck with older
media. I get my best multiplication after a dark ring has formed around
the
tissue. I have yet to kill the tissue from the phenyols but I am sure I
will push it too long one of these days.

Currently I am learning by trial and error the size the tissue should be
before dividing and where the dividing should be done. I was losing a
fair
amount of tissue after cutting it up. I cut back on dividing and really
slowed the process down. I have yet to find a balance I am happy with and
wonder if the freshly cut tissue should be treated with something before
being placed back on the media.

Do not be too hard on yourself when measuring your success. I have found
that when sending Phals out for cloning, a batch of 500 plants will take 2
to 3 years before flasks are returned.

Pat

"Al" wrote in message
news
My goal is to expand my experience with stem propagation of Phals by
actually excising the node and attempting to multiply the meristematic
tissue in a liquid media but I probably won't stop there. I was
thinking
of
a roller drum because it looks neat. :-) A shaker table is probably
more
within my budget.

Are Phals orchids which like or dislike a 24 hour light cycle during the
multiplication phase?

I have a book called Micropropagation of Orchids by Arditti and Ernst
published in 1993. It outlines research on propagation techniques for
many
orchids by genera and provides a kind of history of propagation for most
but
I have been told several times that it is dated and newer info is
available
to augment what was compiled in this book. I don't have this newer info
at
my fingertips or really know where to get it. :-( Anyway, dated or
not,
I
will turn to it once I assemble all the little gadgets I need for this
mad
experiment.

Thank you to everybody who offered input. If there is more to come I
will
be on the look out for it.


"Aaron Hicks" wrote in message
...

Al, you don't specify what you want to use it for, but the upper
speed is going to be way too high for tissue culture work with
orchids.

Keep in mind that some orchids don't like 24 hr/day cycles for
tumbling. Some do best with a few hours on, followed by a few hours
off.

I think there are plans on the web somewhere for do-it-yourself
rigs; ditto with eBay and Labx. Save some bucks.

-AJHicks
Chandler, AZ

OK I admit I'm an idiot dolt when it comes to stem props, but I do have the
memory of an elephant, and my friend Ed Wright never mentioned a shaker
tables or any othe sort of table when he wrote his synopsis of stem props
for OrchidSafari http://www.geocities.com/~marylois/archiv23.html

Granted you may be doing these en masse, but even still....

K Barrett

"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
...
Hey Al,

Seems we are going down about the same route. I have been playing around
with this for about 9 months with limited success. I found Arditti a good
starting point but have really just been winging it once I got started.
One
thing going in our favor is that there are a couple of companies selling
premixed medias. The web site for PhytoTech NZ or Aust was helpful in
suggesting changes to the standard mult mix when using it for Phals. Both
G&B and PhytoTech said they had someone who could help me, but in both
cases
I have been unable to reach these people (always out of country or not in
today).

I have a shaker table so I really am not much help with the drum speed. I
assumed the low speed unit was what you wanted until I looked at the speed
I
run the shaker at. ( I know the speed by the sound and how the tissue
moves
in the flask and not by rpm.) Any ways I tend to run the shaker at 60 to
100 rpm. This is about the same speed I use for cloning Cats and Oncs.
Given that speed, I am not sure the tissue will roll in the culture tubes
with the low speed drum, I would call the company before buying either.

That being said, I have not used the shaker for the last 4 or 5 months
because I was having better luck with solid media. One of the protocols
in
Arditti starts in a shaker, but quickly moves to solid media --I guess
this
is the route I have gone. Funny but I am having better luck with older
media. I get my best multiplication after a dark ring has formed around
the
tissue. I have yet to kill the tissue from the phenyols but I am sure I
will push it too long one of these days.

Currently I am learning by trial and error the size the tissue should be
before dividing and where the dividing should be done. I was losing a
fair
amount of tissue after cutting it up. I cut back on dividing and really
slowed the process down. I have yet to find a balance I am happy with and
wonder if the freshly cut tissue should be treated with something before
being placed back on the media.

Do not be too hard on yourself when measuring your success. I have found
that when sending Phals out for cloning, a batch of 500 plants will take 2
to 3 years before flasks are returned.

Pat

"Al" wrote in message
news
My goal is to expand my experience with stem propagation of Phals by
actually excising the node and attempting to multiply the meristematic
tissue in a liquid media but I probably won't stop there. I was
thinking
of
a roller drum because it looks neat. :-) A shaker table is probably
more
within my budget.

Are Phals orchids which like or dislike a 24 hour light cycle during the
multiplication phase?

I have a book called Micropropagation of Orchids by Arditti and Ernst
published in 1993. It outlines research on propagation techniques for
many
orchids by genera and provides a kind of history of propagation for most
but
I have been told several times that it is dated and newer info is
available
to augment what was compiled in this book. I don't have this newer info
at
my fingertips or really know where to get it. :-( Anyway, dated or
not,
I
will turn to it once I assemble all the little gadgets I need for this
mad
experiment.

Thank you to everybody who offered input. If there is more to come I
will
be on the look out for it.


"Aaron Hicks" wrote in message
...

Al, you don't specify what you want to use it for, but the upper
speed is going to be way too high for tissue culture work with
orchids.

Keep in mind that some orchids don't like 24 hr/day cycles for
tumbling. Some do best with a few hours on, followed by a few hours
off.

I think there are plans on the web somewhere for do-it-yourself
rigs; ditto with eBay and Labx. Save some bucks.

-AJHicks
Chandler, AZ

When multiplying meristem tissue in culture some protocols require the
sample to be continually agitated, if not the sample orients itself to light
and gravity and begins to differentiate into specialized tissue (it grows
into a plant rather than multiplies) My experience with stem props is as
follows: With traditional stem prop methods, as outlined in your link, you
get one to a few plants per node, and that's enough for most people. When
you look at those nodes under magnification you can see that there are often
three dormant nodal buds under the bract cover on a Phal stem. Often when
one is initiated it sends out chemicals to inhibit growth of the others.
Differences in light/temperature and media composition can determine if one
or more node buds might initiate and produce plants for you.

Wounding (as in slicing with a razor blade to expose raw meristem cells) a
node bud before sticking it into the test tube of solid media sometimes
produces little tumorous growths (callus tissue with meristem cell
proliferation mixed in) rather than new plants. About the size of a hulled
peanut these tumors can then be sliced up into many pieces and laid on solid
media where they will grow into many little plantlets each. When it works
you get ten times more plants for the same amount of effort and stem props
take a lot of time to begin with (I guess that's a relative statement. I
think it's a very labor intensive project.) In my experience, more often
than not the wounded tissue dies, and this agitates me because when it
doesn't I can get a flask or two of plants from a single node bud.

Changing the media components, the light levels or duration, or even
temperature can drastically alter what happens. The genes of the individual
sample influence how easily it goes through the process. The age of the
flower spike and the time of the year when it is cut also influences success
rates. In fact the number of breaths you take and the type of thoughts you
think while doing this work has quantum repercussion in several dimensions.

I wanted a shaker table so I could try a better method of making the callus
tissue proliferation "peanut" more reliably, and from my reading I think
this will involve agitation. And for agitation you need a liquid media and
some form of roller/shaker movement. There is a guy in my local society who
has nothing better to do than go to his test tubes every few hours for weeks
or months and shake them up by hand and for him this works to sufficiently
agitate the sample. I'd get tired of that really quickly and when
confronted with this option the price of the roller drum/shaker tables from
New Brunswick Scientific Equipment's catalog looks like the more reasonable
option although they all take my breath away. I am glad these are not the
only choices...

"K Barrett" wrote in message
news:MZ%Pb.126061$I06.1006194@attbi_s01...
OK I admit I'm an idiot dolt when it comes to stem props, but I do have
the
memory of an elephant, and my friend Ed Wright never mentioned a shaker
tables or any othe sort of table when he wrote his synopsis of stem props
for OrchidSafari http://www.geocities.com/~marylois/archiv23.html

Granted you may be doing these en masse, but even still....

K Barrett

"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
...
Hey Al,

Seems we are going down about the same route. I have been playing
around
with this for about 9 months with limited success. I found Arditti a
good
starting point but have really just been winging it once I got started.
One
thing going in our favor is that there are a couple of companies selling
premixed medias. The web site for PhytoTech NZ or Aust was helpful in
suggesting changes to the standard mult mix when using it for Phals.
Both
G&B and PhytoTech said they had someone who could help me, but in both
cases
I have been unable to reach these people (always out of country or not
in
today).

I have a shaker table so I really am not much help with the drum speed.
I
assumed the low speed unit was what you wanted until I looked at the
speed
I
run the shaker at. ( I know the speed by the sound and how the tissue
moves
in the flask and not by rpm.) Any ways I tend to run the shaker at 60
to
100 rpm. This is about the same speed I use for cloning Cats and Oncs.
Given that speed, I am not sure the tissue will roll in the culture
tubes
with the low speed drum, I would call the company before buying either.

That being said, I have not used the shaker for the last 4 or 5 months
because I was having better luck with solid media. One of the protocols
in
Arditti starts in a shaker, but quickly moves to solid media --I guess
this
is the route I have gone. Funny but I am having better luck with older
media. I get my best multiplication after a dark ring has formed around
the
tissue. I have yet to kill the tissue from the phenyols but I am sure I
will push it too long one of these days.

Currently I am learning by trial and error the size the tissue should be
before dividing and where the dividing should be done. I was losing a
fair
amount of tissue after cutting it up. I cut back on dividing and really
slowed the process down. I have yet to find a balance I am happy with
and
wonder if the freshly cut tissue should be treated with something before
being placed back on the media.

Do not be too hard on yourself when measuring your success. I have
found
that when sending Phals out for cloning, a batch of 500 plants will take
2
to 3 years before flasks are returned.

Pat

"Al" wrote in message
news
My goal is to expand my experience with stem propagation of Phals by
actually excising the node and attempting to multiply the meristematic
tissue in a liquid media but I probably won't stop there. I was
thinking
of
a roller drum because it looks neat. :-) A shaker table is probably
more
within my budget.

Are Phals orchids which like or dislike a 24 hour light cycle during
the
multiplication phase?

I have a book called Micropropagation of Orchids by Arditti and Ernst
published in 1993. It outlines research on propagation techniques for
many
orchids by genera and provides a kind of history of propagation for
most
but
I have been told several times that it is dated and newer info is
available
to augment what was compiled in this book. I don't have this newer
info
at
my fingertips or really know where to get it. :-( Anyway, dated or
not,
I
will turn to it once I assemble all the little gadgets I need for this
mad
experiment.

Thank you to everybody who offered input. If there is more to come I
will
be on the look out for it.


"Aaron Hicks" wrote in message
...

Al, you don't specify what you want to use it for, but the upper
speed is going to be way too high for tissue culture work with
orchids.

Keep in mind that some orchids don't like 24 hr/day cycles for
tumbling. Some do best with a few hours on, followed by a few hours
off.

I think there are plans on the web somewhere for do-it-yourself
rigs; ditto with eBay and Labx. Save some bucks.

-AJHicks
Chandler, AZ

Al wrote:

I wanted a shaker table so I could try a better method of making the callus
tissue proliferation "peanut" more reliably, and from my reading I think
this will involve agitation. And for agitation you need a liquid media and
some form of roller/shaker movement. There is a guy in my local society who
has nothing better to do than go to his test tubes every few hours for weeks
or months and shake them up by hand and for him this works to sufficiently
agitate the sample. I'd get tired of that really quickly and when
confronted with this option the price of the roller drum/shaker tables from
New Brunswick Scientific Equipment's catalog looks like the more reasonable
option although they all take my breath away. I am glad these are not the
only choices...


If you are just doing a few tubes or flasks, there are models which
aren't much bigger than a piece of writing paper (the tops of them,
anyway). That might be a more reasonable option than the big chest
shakers. We had one (admittedly at least 30 years old) the size of a
big chest freezer. Of course it broke down a couple times a month...

You can make one. You just need an electric motor and a camshaft.
Come to think of it, a random orbit sander could be adapted to make a
shaker table pretty easily. Just turn it upside down, screw a platform
on it, and use the trigger lock to keep it turned on. I wonder how long
the motor would last... That might be my best idea this week, and I
have had a couple good ones, not that I ever remember to write them down
(good idea number 4 - write down good ideas).

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit

An orbital sander. :-) I wonder how fast this sander would spin. I would
need control of the speed but it is a clever idea.

The cost (new) of the very cheapest shaker base (about 8.5 x 11) from New
Brunswick is $1,185. It comes with an electrical plug to make the motor go.
Without the plug it is probably substantially less expensive but they don't
list a model without a plug. If you want bells and timers and speed
controls and digital readouts then the next largest model costs $1,515. It
also has a plug. Neither of these models comes with a 'platform'; these are
considered accessories. Their platform accessories vary in price but the
one I would choose because it can hold a test tube rack costs $455. It is a
13 x 11 inch cookie sheet with screws and clamps. In fact, after I caught
my breath again from loosing it at the price of the *accessory* I thought
"well, I can build a cookie sheet with screws and Velcro. Now I just need
something to make it move by itself."

An orbital sander... hummm. I wonder what is inside that shaker base box
that could possibly be worth $1,185. Could it be the warrantee?

wrote in message
...
You can make one. You just need an electric motor and a camshaft.
Come to think of it, a random orbit sander could be adapted to make a
shaker table pretty easily. Just turn it upside down, screw a platform
on it, and use the trigger lock to keep it turned on. I wonder how long
the motor would last... That might be my best idea this week, and I
have had a couple good ones, not that I ever remember to write them down
(good idea number 4 - write down good ideas).

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit

Al: You might try a washing machine motor. Find one with a 100%
duty cycle, and you're set.

Something you might consider instead of a shaker table is a rocker
table. Under one end of the table is a motor that drives an eccentric
wheel; the wheel raises the table up, and then it gently goes back down.
There is nothing "magic" about orbital shakers or wheels when you're
talking about the rpms that work for what you're doing. All you're trying
to do is dilute the waste products, and bring in new nutrient solution.

Now, bacterial cultures and callus of other species sometimes like
it at much higher speeds, but not for phal callus. For lower rates, you
can get a timing motor cheap on eBay or from American Science and Surplus
or something like that.

Do not reply to the e-mail address in the header. It all goes to
the FTC.

-AJHicks
Chandler, AZ

Al you must still have a real job. Shakers can be had from eBay for $50 -
$150. Currently there is a brand new one with 4 days to go at $61. If you
have the time I expect you could find them at a state auction at 4 for $12.

Pat

"Al" wrote in message
...
An orbital sander. :-) I wonder how fast this sander would spin. I
would
need control of the speed but it is a clever idea.

The cost (new) of the very cheapest shaker base (about 8.5 x 11) from New
Brunswick is $1,185. It comes with an electrical plug to make the motor
go.
Without the plug it is probably substantially less expensive but they
don't
list a model without a plug. If you want bells and timers and speed
controls and digital readouts then the next largest model costs $1,515.
It
also has a plug. Neither of these models comes with a 'platform'; these
are
considered accessories. Their platform accessories vary in price but the
one I would choose because it can hold a test tube rack costs $455. It is
a
13 x 11 inch cookie sheet with screws and clamps. In fact, after I caught
my breath again from loosing it at the price of the *accessory* I thought
"well, I can build a cookie sheet with screws and Velcro. Now I just need
something to make it move by itself."

An orbital sander... hummm. I wonder what is inside that shaker base box
that could possibly be worth $1,185. Could it be the warrantee?

wrote in message
...
You can make one. You just need an electric motor and a camshaft.
Come to think of it, a random orbit sander could be adapted to make a
shaker table pretty easily. Just turn it upside down, screw a platform
on it, and use the trigger lock to keep it turned on. I wonder how long
the motor would last... That might be my best idea this week, and I
have had a couple good ones, not that I ever remember to write them down
(good idea number 4 - write down good ideas).

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit

I just wanted to let people know what I finally did with regard to a
roller drum. I went into my attic where, low and behold, I found an
assortment of antique and very eBay-able turntables for those old
fashion records that many of you youngsters have never seen. I
actually have three of them that go back to my childhood up there. I
picked the Panasonic turn table with the built in 8 track player and
using a drill and some screws fashioned the spinning part to hold two
16 flask holders. Setting at an angle it spins them quite well at 45
rpms. I can load this contraption with about 10 flasks before it
starts to sound like it is working too hard and needs to be switched
to 78 rmps. Good enough to experiment with.

The hardest part was disabling the auto changer and automatic needle
arm. I had to go into the box and remove a gear in order to prevent
all chance that it would decide to "change records" when I turned my
back.

I have attached a lamp for illumination, and when I want to get really
silly I have some old speakers in the attic too, as well as a box of
8-track tapes. (If they still play I will be amazed. There must be
some organism that eats magnetic tape)

I probably could have sold the turn-table/8 track tape combo box on
eBay and bought a new roller drum. :-)

Anyway, thanks for the input...

I just wanted to let people know what I finally did with regard to a
roller drum. I went into my attic where, low and behold, I found an
assortment of antique and very eBay-able turntables for those old
fashion records that many of you youngsters have never seen. I
actually have three of them that go back to my childhood up there. I
picked the Panasonic turn table with the built in 8 track player and
using a drill and some screws fashioned the spinning part to hold two
16 flask holders. Setting at an angle it spins them quite well at 45
rpms. I can load this contraption with about 10 flasks before it
starts to sound like it is working too hard and needs to be switched
to 78 rmps. Good enough to experiment with.

The hardest part was disabling the auto changer and automatic needle
arm. I had to go into the box and remove a gear in order to prevent
all chance that it would decide to "change records" when I turned my
back.

I have attached a lamp for illumination, and when I want to get really
silly I have some old speakers in the attic too, as well as a box of
8-track tapes. (If they still play I will be amazed. There must be
some organism that eats magnetic tape)

I probably could have sold the turn-table/8 track tape combo box on
eBay and bought a new roller drum. :-)

Anyway, thanks for the input...