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#16
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Roller Drums for tissue culture; a question of rotation speed
Al, you don't specify what you want to use it for, but the upper speed is going to be way too high for tissue culture work with orchids. Keep in mind that some orchids don't like 24 hr/day cycles for tumbling. Some do best with a few hours on, followed by a few hours off. I think there are plans on the web somewhere for do-it-yourself rigs; ditto with eBay and Labx. Save some bucks. -AJHicks Chandler, AZ |
#17
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Roller Drums for tissue culture; a question of rotation speed
Al, you don't specify what you want to use it for, but the upper speed is going to be way too high for tissue culture work with orchids. Keep in mind that some orchids don't like 24 hr/day cycles for tumbling. Some do best with a few hours on, followed by a few hours off. I think there are plans on the web somewhere for do-it-yourself rigs; ditto with eBay and Labx. Save some bucks. -AJHicks Chandler, AZ |
#18
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Roller Drums for tissue culture; a question of rotation speed
My goal is to expand my experience with stem propagation of Phals by
actually excising the node and attempting to multiply the meristematic tissue in a liquid media but I probably won't stop there. I was thinking of a roller drum because it looks neat. :-) A shaker table is probably more within my budget. Are Phals orchids which like or dislike a 24 hour light cycle during the multiplication phase? I have a book called Micropropagation of Orchids by Arditti and Ernst published in 1993. It outlines research on propagation techniques for many orchids by genera and provides a kind of history of propagation for most but I have been told several times that it is dated and newer info is available to augment what was compiled in this book. I don't have this newer info at my fingertips or really know where to get it. :-( Anyway, dated or not, I will turn to it once I assemble all the little gadgets I need for this mad experiment. Thank you to everybody who offered input. If there is more to come I will be on the look out for it. "Aaron Hicks" wrote in message ... Al, you don't specify what you want to use it for, but the upper speed is going to be way too high for tissue culture work with orchids. Keep in mind that some orchids don't like 24 hr/day cycles for tumbling. Some do best with a few hours on, followed by a few hours off. I think there are plans on the web somewhere for do-it-yourself rigs; ditto with eBay and Labx. Save some bucks. -AJHicks Chandler, AZ |
#19
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Roller Drums for tissue culture; a question of rotation speed
Sans spam, "Al" spaketh thusly:
My goal is to expand my experience with stem propagation of Phals by actually excising the node and attempting to multiply the meristematic tissue in a liquid media but I probably won't stop there. I was thinking of a roller drum because it looks neat. :-) A shaker table is probably more within my budget. Probably. The do-it-yourself ones aren't too expensive. I have a book called Micropropagation of Orchids by Arditti and Ernst published in 1993. A very valuable tome; I think they sell for $250-300 right now, if you can find one. Arditti is currently working on a follow-up. However, the 1993 text is ancient history, and there are other problems with it as well. It outlines research on propagation techniques for many orchids by genera and provides a kind of history of propagation for most but I have been told several times that it is dated and newer info is available to augment what was compiled in this book. I don't have this newer info at my fingertips or really know where to get it. :-( The briefest of "Agricola" searches turned up the following references that may be of value- provided, of course, you can get them. AU: Park,-S.Y.; Murthy,-H.N.; Paek,-K.Y. TI: Protocorm-like body induction and subsequent plant regeneration from root tip cultures of Doritaenopsis. SO: Plant-sci. Oxford, UK : Elsevier Science Ltd. June 2003. v. 164 (6) p. 919-923. AU: Chen,-Y.C.; Chang,-C.; Chang,-W.C. TI: A reliable protocol for plant regeneration from callus culture of Phalaenopsis. SO: In-vitro-cell-dev-biol,-Plant. Largo, MD : Society for In Vitro Biology. Sept/Oct 2000. v. 36 (5) p. 420-423. AU: Park,-S.Y.; Murthy,-H.N.; Paek,-K.Y. TI: Rapid propagation of Phalaenopsis from floral stalk-derived leaves. SO: In-vitro-cell-dev-biol,-Plant. Largo, MD : Society for In Vitro Biology. Mar/Apr 2002. v. 38 (2) p. 168-172. AU: Tokuhara,-K.; Mii,-M. TI: Induction of embryogenic callus and cell suspension culture from shoot tips excised from flower stalk buds of Phalaenopsis (Orchidaceae). SO: In-vitro-cell-dev-biol,-Plant. Largo, MD : Society for In Vitro Biology. July/Aug 2001. v. 37 (4) p. 457-461. AU: Young,-P.S.; Murthy,-H.N.; Yoeup,-P.K. TI: Mass multiplication of protocorm-like bodies using bioreactor system and subsequent plant regeneration in Phalaenopsis. SO: Plant-cell,-tissue-organ-cult. Dordrecht, The Netherlands : Kluwer Academic Publishers. 2000. v. 63 (1) p. 67-72. AU: Ishii,-Y.; Takamura,-T.; Goi,-M.; Tanaka,-M. TI: Callus induction and somatic embryogenesis of Phalaenopsis. SO: Plant-cell-rep. Berlin, W. Ger. : Springer International. Apr 1998. v. 17 (6/7) p. 446-450. AU: Duan,-J.X.; Chen,-H.; Yazawa,-S. TI: In vitro propagation of Phalaenopsis via culture of cytokinin-induced nodes. SO: J-plant-growth-reg. New York : Springer-Verlag New York, c1982-. Summer 1996. v. 15 (3) p. 133-137. Any decent library (by "decent" I mean "slightly larger than the Library of Congress") should carry some of these journals. A few caveats should be disclosed. 1) Many of these papers are written by people that have absolutely no clue what they're doing. One of the seminal papers on protocorm multiplication of paphiopedilums spells the clonal names of one of the parents two different ways, and neither of them is apparently correct. For a paper published by Kluwer (who presumably reads the stuff they print before they do so), it's inexcusable. Things get worse from there, as cursory review of the literature shows that the researchers often use formulae so crude or antiquated that they may as well have been banging rocks together trying to get results. Anyone regularly performing orchid work would certainly have used media that were better suited to the work at hand. 2) Researchers don't always tip their hand. Rule 2a is that nobody who actually *does* the work would publish how they do it, including commercial propagators who have no interest in publishing. Spending hundreds or thousands of hours to develop the next quantum leap in technology is going to publish it for all to see. Even if they did, publication can take a year or more, by which time their work should have been leapfrogged- unless, of course, it was just someone doing a quickie master's or doctoral thesis that managed to get their work published. In this case, the work is probably abandoned with great relief. Rule 2b is that the people who publish it usually haven't done the work, so they rely on the technicians who do the work. So, before it gets sent to the publisher, the research is ALREADY second-hand! 3) There is no rule 3. 4) It's ALWAYS cheaper to outsource the work to someone else. Of course, cheaper doesn't equal better; nobody takes better care of your plants than you do. Anyway- have fun. If there are any references you absolutely, positively can't get, drop me a line and I'll see what I can do. Do not reply to the e-mail address in the header. It's a spam trap, sent straight to the FTC. Have a day. Cheers, -AJHicks Chandler, AZ |
#20
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Roller Drums for tissue culture; a question of rotation speed
Hey Al,
Seems we are going down about the same route. I have been playing around with this for about 9 months with limited success. I found Arditti a good starting point but have really just been winging it once I got started. One thing going in our favor is that there are a couple of companies selling premixed medias. The web site for PhytoTech NZ or Aust was helpful in suggesting changes to the standard mult mix when using it for Phals. Both G&B and PhytoTech said they had someone who could help me, but in both cases I have been unable to reach these people (always out of country or not in today). I have a shaker table so I really am not much help with the drum speed. I assumed the low speed unit was what you wanted until I looked at the speed I run the shaker at. ( I know the speed by the sound and how the tissue moves in the flask and not by rpm.) Any ways I tend to run the shaker at 60 to 100 rpm. This is about the same speed I use for cloning Cats and Oncs. Given that speed, I am not sure the tissue will roll in the culture tubes with the low speed drum, I would call the company before buying either. That being said, I have not used the shaker for the last 4 or 5 months because I was having better luck with solid media. One of the protocols in Arditti starts in a shaker, but quickly moves to solid media --I guess this is the route I have gone. Funny but I am having better luck with older media. I get my best multiplication after a dark ring has formed around the tissue. I have yet to kill the tissue from the phenyols but I am sure I will push it too long one of these days. Currently I am learning by trial and error the size the tissue should be before dividing and where the dividing should be done. I was losing a fair amount of tissue after cutting it up. I cut back on dividing and really slowed the process down. I have yet to find a balance I am happy with and wonder if the freshly cut tissue should be treated with something before being placed back on the media. Do not be too hard on yourself when measuring your success. I have found that when sending Phals out for cloning, a batch of 500 plants will take 2 to 3 years before flasks are returned. Pat "Al" wrote in message news My goal is to expand my experience with stem propagation of Phals by actually excising the node and attempting to multiply the meristematic tissue in a liquid media but I probably won't stop there. I was thinking of a roller drum because it looks neat. :-) A shaker table is probably more within my budget. Are Phals orchids which like or dislike a 24 hour light cycle during the multiplication phase? I have a book called Micropropagation of Orchids by Arditti and Ernst published in 1993. It outlines research on propagation techniques for many orchids by genera and provides a kind of history of propagation for most but I have been told several times that it is dated and newer info is available to augment what was compiled in this book. I don't have this newer info at my fingertips or really know where to get it. :-( Anyway, dated or not, I will turn to it once I assemble all the little gadgets I need for this mad experiment. Thank you to everybody who offered input. If there is more to come I will be on the look out for it. "Aaron Hicks" wrote in message ... Al, you don't specify what you want to use it for, but the upper speed is going to be way too high for tissue culture work with orchids. Keep in mind that some orchids don't like 24 hr/day cycles for tumbling. Some do best with a few hours on, followed by a few hours off. I think there are plans on the web somewhere for do-it-yourself rigs; ditto with eBay and Labx. Save some bucks. -AJHicks Chandler, AZ |
#21
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Roller Drums for tissue culture; a question of rotation speed
OK I admit I'm an idiot dolt when it comes to stem props, but I do have the
memory of an elephant, and my friend Ed Wright never mentioned a shaker tables or any othe sort of table when he wrote his synopsis of stem props for OrchidSafari http://www.geocities.com/~marylois/archiv23.html Granted you may be doing these en masse, but even still.... K Barrett "Pat Brennan" wrote in message ... Hey Al, Seems we are going down about the same route. I have been playing around with this for about 9 months with limited success. I found Arditti a good starting point but have really just been winging it once I got started. One thing going in our favor is that there are a couple of companies selling premixed medias. The web site for PhytoTech NZ or Aust was helpful in suggesting changes to the standard mult mix when using it for Phals. Both G&B and PhytoTech said they had someone who could help me, but in both cases I have been unable to reach these people (always out of country or not in today). I have a shaker table so I really am not much help with the drum speed. I assumed the low speed unit was what you wanted until I looked at the speed I run the shaker at. ( I know the speed by the sound and how the tissue moves in the flask and not by rpm.) Any ways I tend to run the shaker at 60 to 100 rpm. This is about the same speed I use for cloning Cats and Oncs. Given that speed, I am not sure the tissue will roll in the culture tubes with the low speed drum, I would call the company before buying either. That being said, I have not used the shaker for the last 4 or 5 months because I was having better luck with solid media. One of the protocols in Arditti starts in a shaker, but quickly moves to solid media --I guess this is the route I have gone. Funny but I am having better luck with older media. I get my best multiplication after a dark ring has formed around the tissue. I have yet to kill the tissue from the phenyols but I am sure I will push it too long one of these days. Currently I am learning by trial and error the size the tissue should be before dividing and where the dividing should be done. I was losing a fair amount of tissue after cutting it up. I cut back on dividing and really slowed the process down. I have yet to find a balance I am happy with and wonder if the freshly cut tissue should be treated with something before being placed back on the media. Do not be too hard on yourself when measuring your success. I have found that when sending Phals out for cloning, a batch of 500 plants will take 2 to 3 years before flasks are returned. Pat "Al" wrote in message news My goal is to expand my experience with stem propagation of Phals by actually excising the node and attempting to multiply the meristematic tissue in a liquid media but I probably won't stop there. I was thinking of a roller drum because it looks neat. :-) A shaker table is probably more within my budget. Are Phals orchids which like or dislike a 24 hour light cycle during the multiplication phase? I have a book called Micropropagation of Orchids by Arditti and Ernst published in 1993. It outlines research on propagation techniques for many orchids by genera and provides a kind of history of propagation for most but I have been told several times that it is dated and newer info is available to augment what was compiled in this book. I don't have this newer info at my fingertips or really know where to get it. :-( Anyway, dated or not, I will turn to it once I assemble all the little gadgets I need for this mad experiment. Thank you to everybody who offered input. If there is more to come I will be on the look out for it. "Aaron Hicks" wrote in message ... Al, you don't specify what you want to use it for, but the upper speed is going to be way too high for tissue culture work with orchids. Keep in mind that some orchids don't like 24 hr/day cycles for tumbling. Some do best with a few hours on, followed by a few hours off. I think there are plans on the web somewhere for do-it-yourself rigs; ditto with eBay and Labx. Save some bucks. -AJHicks Chandler, AZ |
#22
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Roller Drums for tissue culture; a question of rotation speed
OK I admit I'm an idiot dolt when it comes to stem props, but I do have the
memory of an elephant, and my friend Ed Wright never mentioned a shaker tables or any othe sort of table when he wrote his synopsis of stem props for OrchidSafari http://www.geocities.com/~marylois/archiv23.html Granted you may be doing these en masse, but even still.... K Barrett "Pat Brennan" wrote in message ... Hey Al, Seems we are going down about the same route. I have been playing around with this for about 9 months with limited success. I found Arditti a good starting point but have really just been winging it once I got started. One thing going in our favor is that there are a couple of companies selling premixed medias. The web site for PhytoTech NZ or Aust was helpful in suggesting changes to the standard mult mix when using it for Phals. Both G&B and PhytoTech said they had someone who could help me, but in both cases I have been unable to reach these people (always out of country or not in today). I have a shaker table so I really am not much help with the drum speed. I assumed the low speed unit was what you wanted until I looked at the speed I run the shaker at. ( I know the speed by the sound and how the tissue moves in the flask and not by rpm.) Any ways I tend to run the shaker at 60 to 100 rpm. This is about the same speed I use for cloning Cats and Oncs. Given that speed, I am not sure the tissue will roll in the culture tubes with the low speed drum, I would call the company before buying either. That being said, I have not used the shaker for the last 4 or 5 months because I was having better luck with solid media. One of the protocols in Arditti starts in a shaker, but quickly moves to solid media --I guess this is the route I have gone. Funny but I am having better luck with older media. I get my best multiplication after a dark ring has formed around the tissue. I have yet to kill the tissue from the phenyols but I am sure I will push it too long one of these days. Currently I am learning by trial and error the size the tissue should be before dividing and where the dividing should be done. I was losing a fair amount of tissue after cutting it up. I cut back on dividing and really slowed the process down. I have yet to find a balance I am happy with and wonder if the freshly cut tissue should be treated with something before being placed back on the media. Do not be too hard on yourself when measuring your success. I have found that when sending Phals out for cloning, a batch of 500 plants will take 2 to 3 years before flasks are returned. Pat "Al" wrote in message news My goal is to expand my experience with stem propagation of Phals by actually excising the node and attempting to multiply the meristematic tissue in a liquid media but I probably won't stop there. I was thinking of a roller drum because it looks neat. :-) A shaker table is probably more within my budget. Are Phals orchids which like or dislike a 24 hour light cycle during the multiplication phase? I have a book called Micropropagation of Orchids by Arditti and Ernst published in 1993. It outlines research on propagation techniques for many orchids by genera and provides a kind of history of propagation for most but I have been told several times that it is dated and newer info is available to augment what was compiled in this book. I don't have this newer info at my fingertips or really know where to get it. :-( Anyway, dated or not, I will turn to it once I assemble all the little gadgets I need for this mad experiment. Thank you to everybody who offered input. If there is more to come I will be on the look out for it. "Aaron Hicks" wrote in message ... Al, you don't specify what you want to use it for, but the upper speed is going to be way too high for tissue culture work with orchids. Keep in mind that some orchids don't like 24 hr/day cycles for tumbling. Some do best with a few hours on, followed by a few hours off. I think there are plans on the web somewhere for do-it-yourself rigs; ditto with eBay and Labx. Save some bucks. -AJHicks Chandler, AZ |
#23
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Roller Drums for tissue culture; a question of rotation speed
OK I admit I'm an idiot dolt when it comes to stem props, but I do have the
memory of an elephant, and my friend Ed Wright never mentioned a shaker tables or any othe sort of table when he wrote his synopsis of stem props for OrchidSafari http://www.geocities.com/~marylois/archiv23.html Granted you may be doing these en masse, but even still.... K Barrett "Pat Brennan" wrote in message ... Hey Al, Seems we are going down about the same route. I have been playing around with this for about 9 months with limited success. I found Arditti a good starting point but have really just been winging it once I got started. One thing going in our favor is that there are a couple of companies selling premixed medias. The web site for PhytoTech NZ or Aust was helpful in suggesting changes to the standard mult mix when using it for Phals. Both G&B and PhytoTech said they had someone who could help me, but in both cases I have been unable to reach these people (always out of country or not in today). I have a shaker table so I really am not much help with the drum speed. I assumed the low speed unit was what you wanted until I looked at the speed I run the shaker at. ( I know the speed by the sound and how the tissue moves in the flask and not by rpm.) Any ways I tend to run the shaker at 60 to 100 rpm. This is about the same speed I use for cloning Cats and Oncs. Given that speed, I am not sure the tissue will roll in the culture tubes with the low speed drum, I would call the company before buying either. That being said, I have not used the shaker for the last 4 or 5 months because I was having better luck with solid media. One of the protocols in Arditti starts in a shaker, but quickly moves to solid media --I guess this is the route I have gone. Funny but I am having better luck with older media. I get my best multiplication after a dark ring has formed around the tissue. I have yet to kill the tissue from the phenyols but I am sure I will push it too long one of these days. Currently I am learning by trial and error the size the tissue should be before dividing and where the dividing should be done. I was losing a fair amount of tissue after cutting it up. I cut back on dividing and really slowed the process down. I have yet to find a balance I am happy with and wonder if the freshly cut tissue should be treated with something before being placed back on the media. Do not be too hard on yourself when measuring your success. I have found that when sending Phals out for cloning, a batch of 500 plants will take 2 to 3 years before flasks are returned. Pat "Al" wrote in message news My goal is to expand my experience with stem propagation of Phals by actually excising the node and attempting to multiply the meristematic tissue in a liquid media but I probably won't stop there. I was thinking of a roller drum because it looks neat. :-) A shaker table is probably more within my budget. Are Phals orchids which like or dislike a 24 hour light cycle during the multiplication phase? I have a book called Micropropagation of Orchids by Arditti and Ernst published in 1993. It outlines research on propagation techniques for many orchids by genera and provides a kind of history of propagation for most but I have been told several times that it is dated and newer info is available to augment what was compiled in this book. I don't have this newer info at my fingertips or really know where to get it. :-( Anyway, dated or not, I will turn to it once I assemble all the little gadgets I need for this mad experiment. Thank you to everybody who offered input. If there is more to come I will be on the look out for it. "Aaron Hicks" wrote in message ... Al, you don't specify what you want to use it for, but the upper speed is going to be way too high for tissue culture work with orchids. Keep in mind that some orchids don't like 24 hr/day cycles for tumbling. Some do best with a few hours on, followed by a few hours off. I think there are plans on the web somewhere for do-it-yourself rigs; ditto with eBay and Labx. Save some bucks. -AJHicks Chandler, AZ |
#24
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Roller Drums for tissue culture; a question of rotation speed
When multiplying meristem tissue in culture some protocols require the
sample to be continually agitated, if not the sample orients itself to light and gravity and begins to differentiate into specialized tissue (it grows into a plant rather than multiplies) My experience with stem props is as follows: With traditional stem prop methods, as outlined in your link, you get one to a few plants per node, and that's enough for most people. When you look at those nodes under magnification you can see that there are often three dormant nodal buds under the bract cover on a Phal stem. Often when one is initiated it sends out chemicals to inhibit growth of the others. Differences in light/temperature and media composition can determine if one or more node buds might initiate and produce plants for you. Wounding (as in slicing with a razor blade to expose raw meristem cells) a node bud before sticking it into the test tube of solid media sometimes produces little tumorous growths (callus tissue with meristem cell proliferation mixed in) rather than new plants. About the size of a hulled peanut these tumors can then be sliced up into many pieces and laid on solid media where they will grow into many little plantlets each. When it works you get ten times more plants for the same amount of effort and stem props take a lot of time to begin with (I guess that's a relative statement. I think it's a very labor intensive project.) In my experience, more often than not the wounded tissue dies, and this agitates me because when it doesn't I can get a flask or two of plants from a single node bud. Changing the media components, the light levels or duration, or even temperature can drastically alter what happens. The genes of the individual sample influence how easily it goes through the process. The age of the flower spike and the time of the year when it is cut also influences success rates. In fact the number of breaths you take and the type of thoughts you think while doing this work has quantum repercussion in several dimensions. I wanted a shaker table so I could try a better method of making the callus tissue proliferation "peanut" more reliably, and from my reading I think this will involve agitation. And for agitation you need a liquid media and some form of roller/shaker movement. There is a guy in my local society who has nothing better to do than go to his test tubes every few hours for weeks or months and shake them up by hand and for him this works to sufficiently agitate the sample. I'd get tired of that really quickly and when confronted with this option the price of the roller drum/shaker tables from New Brunswick Scientific Equipment's catalog looks like the more reasonable option although they all take my breath away. I am glad these are not the only choices... "K Barrett" wrote in message news:MZ%Pb.126061$I06.1006194@attbi_s01... OK I admit I'm an idiot dolt when it comes to stem props, but I do have the memory of an elephant, and my friend Ed Wright never mentioned a shaker tables or any othe sort of table when he wrote his synopsis of stem props for OrchidSafari http://www.geocities.com/~marylois/archiv23.html Granted you may be doing these en masse, but even still.... K Barrett "Pat Brennan" wrote in message ... Hey Al, Seems we are going down about the same route. I have been playing around with this for about 9 months with limited success. I found Arditti a good starting point but have really just been winging it once I got started. One thing going in our favor is that there are a couple of companies selling premixed medias. The web site for PhytoTech NZ or Aust was helpful in suggesting changes to the standard mult mix when using it for Phals. Both G&B and PhytoTech said they had someone who could help me, but in both cases I have been unable to reach these people (always out of country or not in today). I have a shaker table so I really am not much help with the drum speed. I assumed the low speed unit was what you wanted until I looked at the speed I run the shaker at. ( I know the speed by the sound and how the tissue moves in the flask and not by rpm.) Any ways I tend to run the shaker at 60 to 100 rpm. This is about the same speed I use for cloning Cats and Oncs. Given that speed, I am not sure the tissue will roll in the culture tubes with the low speed drum, I would call the company before buying either. That being said, I have not used the shaker for the last 4 or 5 months because I was having better luck with solid media. One of the protocols in Arditti starts in a shaker, but quickly moves to solid media --I guess this is the route I have gone. Funny but I am having better luck with older media. I get my best multiplication after a dark ring has formed around the tissue. I have yet to kill the tissue from the phenyols but I am sure I will push it too long one of these days. Currently I am learning by trial and error the size the tissue should be before dividing and where the dividing should be done. I was losing a fair amount of tissue after cutting it up. I cut back on dividing and really slowed the process down. I have yet to find a balance I am happy with and wonder if the freshly cut tissue should be treated with something before being placed back on the media. Do not be too hard on yourself when measuring your success. I have found that when sending Phals out for cloning, a batch of 500 plants will take 2 to 3 years before flasks are returned. Pat "Al" wrote in message news My goal is to expand my experience with stem propagation of Phals by actually excising the node and attempting to multiply the meristematic tissue in a liquid media but I probably won't stop there. I was thinking of a roller drum because it looks neat. :-) A shaker table is probably more within my budget. Are Phals orchids which like or dislike a 24 hour light cycle during the multiplication phase? I have a book called Micropropagation of Orchids by Arditti and Ernst published in 1993. It outlines research on propagation techniques for many orchids by genera and provides a kind of history of propagation for most but I have been told several times that it is dated and newer info is available to augment what was compiled in this book. I don't have this newer info at my fingertips or really know where to get it. :-( Anyway, dated or not, I will turn to it once I assemble all the little gadgets I need for this mad experiment. Thank you to everybody who offered input. If there is more to come I will be on the look out for it. "Aaron Hicks" wrote in message ... Al, you don't specify what you want to use it for, but the upper speed is going to be way too high for tissue culture work with orchids. Keep in mind that some orchids don't like 24 hr/day cycles for tumbling. Some do best with a few hours on, followed by a few hours off. I think there are plans on the web somewhere for do-it-yourself rigs; ditto with eBay and Labx. Save some bucks. -AJHicks Chandler, AZ |
#25
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Roller Drums for tissue culture; a question of rotation speed
Al wrote:
I wanted a shaker table so I could try a better method of making the callus tissue proliferation "peanut" more reliably, and from my reading I think this will involve agitation. And for agitation you need a liquid media and some form of roller/shaker movement. There is a guy in my local society who has nothing better to do than go to his test tubes every few hours for weeks or months and shake them up by hand and for him this works to sufficiently agitate the sample. I'd get tired of that really quickly and when confronted with this option the price of the roller drum/shaker tables from New Brunswick Scientific Equipment's catalog looks like the more reasonable option although they all take my breath away. I am glad these are not the only choices... If you are just doing a few tubes or flasks, there are models which aren't much bigger than a piece of writing paper (the tops of them, anyway). That might be a more reasonable option than the big chest shakers. We had one (admittedly at least 30 years old) the size of a big chest freezer. Of course it broke down a couple times a month... You can make one. You just need an electric motor and a camshaft. Come to think of it, a random orbit sander could be adapted to make a shaker table pretty easily. Just turn it upside down, screw a platform on it, and use the trigger lock to keep it turned on. I wonder how long the motor would last... That might be my best idea this week, and I have had a couple good ones, not that I ever remember to write them down (good idea number 4 - write down good ideas). Rob -- Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a. See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase more orchids, obtain more credit |
#26
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Roller Drums for tissue culture; a question of rotation speed
An orbital sander. :-) I wonder how fast this sander would spin. I would
need control of the speed but it is a clever idea. The cost (new) of the very cheapest shaker base (about 8.5 x 11) from New Brunswick is $1,185. It comes with an electrical plug to make the motor go. Without the plug it is probably substantially less expensive but they don't list a model without a plug. If you want bells and timers and speed controls and digital readouts then the next largest model costs $1,515. It also has a plug. Neither of these models comes with a 'platform'; these are considered accessories. Their platform accessories vary in price but the one I would choose because it can hold a test tube rack costs $455. It is a 13 x 11 inch cookie sheet with screws and clamps. In fact, after I caught my breath again from loosing it at the price of the *accessory* I thought "well, I can build a cookie sheet with screws and Velcro. Now I just need something to make it move by itself." An orbital sander... hummm. I wonder what is inside that shaker base box that could possibly be worth $1,185. Could it be the warrantee? wrote in message ... You can make one. You just need an electric motor and a camshaft. Come to think of it, a random orbit sander could be adapted to make a shaker table pretty easily. Just turn it upside down, screw a platform on it, and use the trigger lock to keep it turned on. I wonder how long the motor would last... That might be my best idea this week, and I have had a couple good ones, not that I ever remember to write them down (good idea number 4 - write down good ideas). Rob -- Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a. See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase more orchids, obtain more credit |
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Roller Drums for tissue culture; a question of rotation speed
Al: You might try a washing machine motor. Find one with a 100%
duty cycle, and you're set. Something you might consider instead of a shaker table is a rocker table. Under one end of the table is a motor that drives an eccentric wheel; the wheel raises the table up, and then it gently goes back down. There is nothing "magic" about orbital shakers or wheels when you're talking about the rpms that work for what you're doing. All you're trying to do is dilute the waste products, and bring in new nutrient solution. Now, bacterial cultures and callus of other species sometimes like it at much higher speeds, but not for phal callus. For lower rates, you can get a timing motor cheap on eBay or from American Science and Surplus or something like that. Do not reply to the e-mail address in the header. It all goes to the FTC. -AJHicks Chandler, AZ |
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Roller Drums for tissue culture; a question of rotation speed
Al you must still have a real job. Shakers can be had from eBay for $50 -
$150. Currently there is a brand new one with 4 days to go at $61. If you have the time I expect you could find them at a state auction at 4 for $12. Pat "Al" wrote in message ... An orbital sander. :-) I wonder how fast this sander would spin. I would need control of the speed but it is a clever idea. The cost (new) of the very cheapest shaker base (about 8.5 x 11) from New Brunswick is $1,185. It comes with an electrical plug to make the motor go. Without the plug it is probably substantially less expensive but they don't list a model without a plug. If you want bells and timers and speed controls and digital readouts then the next largest model costs $1,515. It also has a plug. Neither of these models comes with a 'platform'; these are considered accessories. Their platform accessories vary in price but the one I would choose because it can hold a test tube rack costs $455. It is a 13 x 11 inch cookie sheet with screws and clamps. In fact, after I caught my breath again from loosing it at the price of the *accessory* I thought "well, I can build a cookie sheet with screws and Velcro. Now I just need something to make it move by itself." An orbital sander... hummm. I wonder what is inside that shaker base box that could possibly be worth $1,185. Could it be the warrantee? wrote in message ... You can make one. You just need an electric motor and a camshaft. Come to think of it, a random orbit sander could be adapted to make a shaker table pretty easily. Just turn it upside down, screw a platform on it, and use the trigger lock to keep it turned on. I wonder how long the motor would last... That might be my best idea this week, and I have had a couple good ones, not that I ever remember to write them down (good idea number 4 - write down good ideas). Rob -- Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a. See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase more orchids, obtain more credit |
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Roller Drums for tissue culture; a question of rotation speed
I just wanted to let people know what I finally did with regard to a
roller drum. I went into my attic where, low and behold, I found an assortment of antique and very eBay-able turntables for those old fashion records that many of you youngsters have never seen. I actually have three of them that go back to my childhood up there. I picked the Panasonic turn table with the built in 8 track player and using a drill and some screws fashioned the spinning part to hold two 16 flask holders. Setting at an angle it spins them quite well at 45 rpms. I can load this contraption with about 10 flasks before it starts to sound like it is working too hard and needs to be switched to 78 rmps. Good enough to experiment with. The hardest part was disabling the auto changer and automatic needle arm. I had to go into the box and remove a gear in order to prevent all chance that it would decide to "change records" when I turned my back. I have attached a lamp for illumination, and when I want to get really silly I have some old speakers in the attic too, as well as a box of 8-track tapes. (If they still play I will be amazed. There must be some organism that eats magnetic tape) I probably could have sold the turn-table/8 track tape combo box on eBay and bought a new roller drum. :-) Anyway, thanks for the input... |
#30
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Roller Drums for tissue culture; a question of rotation speed
I just wanted to let people know what I finally did with regard to a
roller drum. I went into my attic where, low and behold, I found an assortment of antique and very eBay-able turntables for those old fashion records that many of you youngsters have never seen. I actually have three of them that go back to my childhood up there. I picked the Panasonic turn table with the built in 8 track player and using a drill and some screws fashioned the spinning part to hold two 16 flask holders. Setting at an angle it spins them quite well at 45 rpms. I can load this contraption with about 10 flasks before it starts to sound like it is working too hard and needs to be switched to 78 rmps. Good enough to experiment with. The hardest part was disabling the auto changer and automatic needle arm. I had to go into the box and remove a gear in order to prevent all chance that it would decide to "change records" when I turned my back. I have attached a lamp for illumination, and when I want to get really silly I have some old speakers in the attic too, as well as a box of 8-track tapes. (If they still play I will be amazed. There must be some organism that eats magnetic tape) I probably could have sold the turn-table/8 track tape combo box on eBay and bought a new roller drum. :-) Anyway, thanks for the input... |
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