Could someone please post the ancient Greek word for the silver birch, or
provide a suitable reference.

I have checked Theophrastos but there is no listing for the tree. This is
most odd because he grew up in the region where the silver birch grew.

And Pliny only provides the Latin name Betula.

Thanks in advance.

Xref: 127.0.0.1 sci.bio.botany:20048

Would Samyda / Semyda help?
PvR

o8TY schreef
Could someone please post the ancient Greek word for the silver birch, or
provide a suitable reference.

I have checked Theophrastos but there is no listing for the tree. This is
most odd because he grew up in the region where the silver birch grew.

And Pliny only provides the Latin name Betula.

Thanks in advance.

"o8TY"

Could someone please post the ancient Greek word for the silver birch, or
provide a suitable reference.

I have checked Theophrastos but there is no listing for the tree. This is
most odd because he grew up in the region where the silver birch grew.

And Pliny only provides the Latin name Betula.

Thanks in advance.




------------
Have we tried the obvious!? A English - Greek Dictionary?

This (Web) dictionary one has an entry for "birch". No doubt there are other
dictionaries out there!!

http://www.kypros.org/cgi-bin/lexicon/



--
donald j haarmann — colophon

With the modern Greek simida, I ran a check on several variable spellings
but to no avail. I will however check again when I get a chance.

"P van Rijckevorsel" wrote in message
...
Would Samyda / Semyda help?
PvR

o8TY schreef
Could someone please post the ancient Greek word for the silver birch,
or
provide a suitable reference.

I have checked Theophrastos but there is no listing for the tree. This
is
most odd because he grew up in the region where the silver birch grew.

And Pliny only provides the Latin name Betula.

Thanks in advance.

"donald j haarmann" wrote in message ...
"o8TY"

Could someone please post the ancient Greek word for the silver birch, or
provide a suitable reference.

I have checked Theophrastos but there is no listing for the tree. This is
most odd because he grew up in the region where the silver birch grew.

And Pliny only provides the Latin name Betula.

Thanks in advance.




------------
Have we tried the obvious!? A English - Greek Dictionary?

This (Web) dictionary one has an entry for "birch". No doubt there are other
dictionaries out there!!

http://www.kypros.org/cgi-bin/lexicon/

If only life were so simple! The Cyprus dictionary doesn't claim to
know a classical word for the tree; though *semyda* looks probable,
Liddell and Scott say the meaning is speculative (they say it is in
Theophrastus, by the way). I don't know why this should be, unless
it's one of those words which was revived for Modern Greek after a
period of oblivion.

Mike.

"o8TY"
Could someone please post the ancient Greek word for the silver birch,
or provide a suitable reference.
I have checked Theophrastos but there is no listing for the tree. This
is most odd because he grew up in the region where the silver birch grew.
And Pliny only provides the Latin name Betula.
Thanks in advance.

===
"donald j haarmann" wrote
Have we tried the obvious!? A English - Greek Dictionary?
This (Web) dictionary one has an entry for "birch". No doubt there are
other dictionaries out there!!

http://www.kypros.org/cgi-bin/lexicon/

========
Mike Lyle schreef
If only life were so simple! The Cyprus dictionary doesn't claim to
know a classical word for the tree; though *semyda* looks probable,
Liddell and Scott say the meaning is speculative (they say it is in
Theophrastus, by the way). I don't know why this should be, unless
it's one of those words which was revived for Modern Greek after a
period of oblivion.

Mike.

+ + +
Well Samyda does have a botanical history, being used for a genus. It is the
more noteworthy since the genus lends its name to a family that is on the
point of being revived (or not).

But perhaps the OP will give his opinion on why it is speculative after he
has found it in Theophrastus
PvR

Reminds me of the arguments about the correct Biblical Hebrew words for various
plants, and conversely, "What did they mean by...?"
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

"P van Rijckevorsel"

Would Samyda / Semyda help?
PvR


--------
RW Brown
Composition of Scientific Words
Smithsonian Inst. Press 1956

birch Gr. semyda f. probable a birch ...



--
donald j haarmann - independently dubious

"P van Rijckevorsel"

Would Samyda / Semyda help?
PvR


--------
RW Brown
Composition of Scientific Words
Smithsonian Inst. Press 1956

birch Gr. semyda f. probable a birch ...



--
donald j haarmann - independently dubious

"o8TY"
Could someone please post the ancient Greek word for the silver birch,
or provide a suitable reference. I have checked Theophrastus but there is no
listing for the tree. This
is most odd because he grew up in the region where the silver birch grew.

Mike Lyle schreef
If only life were so simple! The Cyprus dictionary doesn't claim to
know a classical word for the tree; though *semyda* looks probable,
Liddell and Scott say the meaning is speculative (they say it is in
Theophrastus, by the way). I don't know why this should be, unless
it's one of those words which was revived for Modern Greek after a
period of oblivion.

Mike.

+ + +
I just found out that Liddell and Scott is the big dictionary that always
gives me such a hard time. When I looked it up ("sèmuda") the big dictionary
gave its meaning as Cercis siliquastrum and gave a location in Theophrastus:
H3.14.4, 5.7.7 which I assume is terribly meaningful to a scholar of
Theophrastus.
PvR

"P van Rijckevorsel" wrote in message
...
"o8TY"
Could someone please post the ancient Greek word for the silver
birch,
or provide a suitable reference. I have checked Theophrastus but there is
no
listing for the tree. This
is most odd because he grew up in the region where the silver birch grew.

Mike Lyle schreef
If only life were so simple! The Cyprus dictionary doesn't claim to
know a classical word for the tree; though *semyda* looks probable,
Liddell and Scott say the meaning is speculative (they say it is in
Theophrastus, by the way). I don't know why this should be, unless
it's one of those words which was revived for Modern Greek after a
period of oblivion.

Mike.

+ + +
I just found out that Liddell and Scott is the big dictionary that always
gives me such a hard time. When I looked it up ("sèmuda") the big
dictionary
gave its meaning as Cercis siliquastrum and gave a location in
Theophrastus:
H3.14.4, 5.7.7 which I assume is terribly meaningful to a scholar of
Theophrastus.
PvR





This is what Theophrastus has to say about semuda

3.14.4 The semuda has a leaf like that of the tree called Persike (Persian
nut - walnut?) but it is rather narrower: the bark is variegated and the
wood light: it is only of use for making walking sticks and for no other
purpose.

5.7.7 Semuda (Judas-tree) [used for making] for walking sticks.

Given that the birch was a highly useful tree, where it leaves were used for
food, its seed for tanning, its bark for writing (perhaps before the use of
hides (velum), and definitely before paper), its twigs for making baskets,
whips, rope and other framework (ie shields), its wood for fuel and
furniture, its sap for fuel, lighting, varnish and possibly to make or
flavour wine (cf retsina), plus various fungi used for lighting fires
(tinder), healing wounds and other ailiments, I very much doubt that the
semuda in Theophrastus' work refers to the birch.

It would seem that the LSJ and Cyprus dictionaries are correct, that the
ancient word for the tree may be lost, or at least very well hidden.

Many thanks to all those that replied.

Just to show off my ignorance of classic Greek: I noticed in Liddell and
Scott that there was a word with a surface similarity to sèmuda namely
sémidalis (if memory serves me) with a meaning like "flour" and "white",
which means that there is at least some common ground with "birch". Could
this be involved in the confusion?
PvR

Well, wild olives are all over the place (Olea europaea ssp cuspidata) and
they look nothing like birches. Anything with the name white in it is at
least a candidate
PvR

o8TY schreef

One might also compare the name Semele, mother of Dionysios, with semuda.
I recall a somewhat famous kulikes (elevated wine cup) with a red background
showing Dionysios riding in a boat with overhanging leaves and fruit
resembling that of the vine, but possible also of the leaves and catkins
of a birch.

In his 3rd Olympian Ode, written in the late 6th or early 5th C BC, Pindar
says that Herakles brought back a "wild olive" (Gk agrielaios?) from the
land of the Hyperboreans ("beyond the north wind") for use in a ceremony
at Olympia, while others say that he brought a "white poplar" (Gk "leuke")
from around Thesprotia (below Dodona in west central Greece). I would be
more
inclined to believe that the reference was to the birch in both of these
instances, but where by the 6th C the name for the tree was already lost.
Not knowing what the wild olive looked like, the white poplar in any case
has a similar appearance to the birch.

This late reply is due to my newsgroup server being down all week.