The article cites the oldest plant as the one bordering US route
22/322 near Hamburg which is not too far from the one in New
Bloomfield. The plant bordering on the highway was partially cleared
for the highway and now the only remaining part is on private property
and unmarked. I have seen the one in New Bloomfield where my wife's
family lived.

I always took the age of these plants with a grain of salt, since it
seemed to me to be a classic case of the locals fooling the city boy.
When the subject came up here I to the opportunity to run the
infromation past others more able to put it in perspective.

Thanks .
Aaron


On 28 Jan 2004 15:07:41 -0800, (David Hershey) wrote:

Aaron wrote in message . ..
I am sure there are many local ledgends concerning very old plants.
In New Bloomfield, PA in the heart of Perry County is a Box
Huckleberry plant that is estimated to be over 13,000 years old and a
survivor of the ice age. This plant propigates by sending out runners
underground. The age is estimated by the area that the plant covers.
This one plant is now about 1/4 mile in diameter. I am not schooled
enough in Botany to evaluate the validity of the information. The
article cited below quotes the opinions of several of acedemics and
the plant is officially recognized by PA .

Any comments from serious botanists would be interesting.and welcome.

See
http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deput...able082099.htm

Aaron



The National Park Service has designated the Perry County box
huckleberry (Gaylussacia brachycera) site a National Natural Landmark,
but the NPS website gives the age as 1,300 years.
http://www.nps.gov/nero/nnl/boxhuckleberry.htm Is that a typo or
doesn't the NPS believe the 13,000 figure either?

The 13,000 year age estimate seems to have been made by Wherry (1972).
A botanist would have to examine Wherry's original publication to
evaluate whether his methods and conclusions are reasonable. Woody
plant expert Michael Dirr wrote that the age estimate was "somewhat
suspect" but didn't elaborate.

The current record-holder, King's holly (Lomatia tasmanica) is on
firmer ground because it is a rare triploid. By chance, a fossil leaf
identical in morphology to King's holly was found and dated at 43,600
years old. That is fairly convincing evidence as these things go.
King's holly could also have been in existence much longer than 43,600
years, but there is no evidence one way or the other.

Any of these individual plant clones could be much, much older than
they have been dated. There is just no way yet known to accurately
estimate how long they have been in existence. Even many nonwoody
plants are clones. Most dandelions are clones because they produce
mainly apomictic seeds.

References

THE OLDEST LIVING PLANT INDIVIDUAL:
http://www.ou.edu/cas/botany-micro/ben/ben149.html

Dirr, M. A. 1983. Manual of Woody Landscape Plants. Champaign, IL:
Stipes Publishing

Lynch, A. J. J. , R. W. Barnes, J. Cambecèdes and R. E. Vaillancourt.
Genetic Evidence that Lomatia tasmanica (Proteaceae) is an Ancient
Clone Australian Journal of Botany 46(1) 25 - 33

Wherry, E. T. 1972. Box-huckleberry as the oldest living protoplasm.
Castanea 37, 94-95.

The article cites the oldest plant as the one bordering US route
22/322 near Hamburg which is not too far from the one in New
Bloomfield. The plant bordering on the highway was partially cleared
for the highway and now the only remaining part is on private property
and unmarked. I have seen the one in New Bloomfield where my wife's
family lived.

I always took the age of these plants with a grain of salt, since it
seemed to me to be a classic case of the locals fooling the city boy.
When the subject came up here I to the opportunity to run the
infromation past others more able to put it in perspective.

Thanks .
Aaron


On 28 Jan 2004 15:07:41 -0800, (David Hershey) wrote:

Aaron wrote in message . ..
I am sure there are many local ledgends concerning very old plants.
In New Bloomfield, PA in the heart of Perry County is a Box
Huckleberry plant that is estimated to be over 13,000 years old and a
survivor of the ice age. This plant propigates by sending out runners
underground. The age is estimated by the area that the plant covers.
This one plant is now about 1/4 mile in diameter. I am not schooled
enough in Botany to evaluate the validity of the information. The
article cited below quotes the opinions of several of acedemics and
the plant is officially recognized by PA .

Any comments from serious botanists would be interesting.and welcome.

See
http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deput...able082099.htm

Aaron



The National Park Service has designated the Perry County box
huckleberry (Gaylussacia brachycera) site a National Natural Landmark,
but the NPS website gives the age as 1,300 years.
http://www.nps.gov/nero/nnl/boxhuckleberry.htm Is that a typo or
doesn't the NPS believe the 13,000 figure either?

The 13,000 year age estimate seems to have been made by Wherry (1972).
A botanist would have to examine Wherry's original publication to
evaluate whether his methods and conclusions are reasonable. Woody
plant expert Michael Dirr wrote that the age estimate was "somewhat
suspect" but didn't elaborate.

The current record-holder, King's holly (Lomatia tasmanica) is on
firmer ground because it is a rare triploid. By chance, a fossil leaf
identical in morphology to King's holly was found and dated at 43,600
years old. That is fairly convincing evidence as these things go.
King's holly could also have been in existence much longer than 43,600
years, but there is no evidence one way or the other.

Any of these individual plant clones could be much, much older than
they have been dated. There is just no way yet known to accurately
estimate how long they have been in existence. Even many nonwoody
plants are clones. Most dandelions are clones because they produce
mainly apomictic seeds.

References

THE OLDEST LIVING PLANT INDIVIDUAL:
http://www.ou.edu/cas/botany-micro/ben/ben149.html

Dirr, M. A. 1983. Manual of Woody Landscape Plants. Champaign, IL:
Stipes Publishing

Lynch, A. J. J. , R. W. Barnes, J. Cambecèdes and R. E. Vaillancourt.
Genetic Evidence that Lomatia tasmanica (Proteaceae) is an Ancient
Clone Australian Journal of Botany 46(1) 25 - 33

Wherry, E. T. 1972. Box-huckleberry as the oldest living protoplasm.
Castanea 37, 94-95.