Roark's website is back up:
www.click2roark.com ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

We lurves Roark!
Even if he has an unnatural fear of plants in the pond.
k :-)

Awww, the poor chap must never have got to know what the good stuff can do

Regards, andy
http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l42/adavisus/

On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 21:32:02 CST, adavisus
wrote:

We lurves Roark!
Even if he has an unnatural fear of plants in the pond.
k :-)
Tell me more. I remember Roark as one with lots of useful stored data
that he shared. Can't recall any of his comments about plants in the
pond. If he says they support snails, I think I agree.

Awww, the poor chap must never have got to know what the good stuff can
do

Regards, andy
http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l42/adavisus/

I've enjoyed looking at all the beautiful pictures of lilies on the
posted URL, but never considered lilies very useful, just decorative,
except for a bit of shade. Mine were always potted and fertilized and
could have even contributed to some algae growth, although that was
not intended.

Ingrid has good things to say about water celery as a filtering plant.
I've never tried it, but have a pot with Oenthe javanica'Flamingo
growing in a sheltered spot and plant to try it this summer. What's
your favorite?
--
Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8
http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb

"Hal" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 21:32:02 CST, adavisus
wrote:

We lurves Roark!
Even if he has an unnatural fear of plants in the pond.
k :-)

Tell me more. I remember Roark as one with lots of useful stored data
that he shared. Can't recall any of his comments about plants in the
pond. If he says they support snails, I think I agree.

I loved his sense of humor. :-)

Awww, the poor chap must never have got to know what the good stuff can
do

Regards, andy
http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l42/adavisus/

I've enjoyed looking at all the beautiful pictures of lilies on the
posted URL, but never considered lilies very useful, just decorative,
except for a bit of shade. Mine were always potted and fertilized and
could have even contributed to some algae growth, although that was
not intended.

I use them for shade and love the flowers.

Ingrid has good things to say about water celery as a filtering plant.
I've never tried it, but have a pot with Oenthe javanica'Flamingo
growing in a sheltered spot and plant to try it this summer. What's
your favorite?

I have a mix of pond plants. The more the merrier.......
--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

[quote= but never considered lilies very useful, just decorative,
except for a bit of shade. [/QUOTE]

Humph.

Waterlilies protect fish from predators, providing cover
Waterlilies can moderate water temperatures 15°f cooler in a hot climate
Waterlilies are edible to a host of beneficial aquatic insects, providing a nutritious food chain
Waterlilies in themselves substantially improve water quality by absorbing surplus fertility. a well planted pond can deplete the very stuff that feeds algae blooms

A lot of ponds fail, they do not have a balanced ecology. Needless to say, folk with very limited experience of ponds and water gardening make more money selling pumps, junk and water squishing devices as a rather iffy 'life support' system for a pond, you tend to hear more noise plugging the very expensive and less efficient alternatives to a well planted pond...

Because that makes them more money

Regards, andy
http://www.members.aol.com/abdavisnc/swglist.html
http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l42/adavisus/

On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 16:56:38 CST, "Reel McKoi"
wrote:

I use them for shade and love the flowers.

I enjoyed mine too and if they helped cool the pond, I'm really glad
because my pond water still reached close to 90F at times.

What's
your favorite?

I have a mix of pond plants. The more the merrier.......

I usually do too, but find the most of the floaters eventually cover
the bottom with debris of some sort, or perhaps they just covered the
bottom and allowed the debris to be out of sight until I moved the
plants and cleaned. I suppose I was hoping for a magic plant that
does wonders. Maybe next year??
--
Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8
http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb

On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 23:16:06 CST, adavisus
wrote:

Because that makes them more money

Oh well!! You do have some nice looking lilies, but I don't think I
could stand the shipping cost.
--
Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8
http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb

"Hal" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 16:56:38 CST, "Reel McKoi"
wrote:

I use them for shade and love the flowers.

I enjoyed mine too and if they helped cool the pond, I'm really glad
because my pond water still reached close to 90F at times.

The water lilies shade and help keep the water cooler. Just stick your hand
under one in a summer day and you'll see what O mean. Last summer was a
doozy here. Days of 100+ heat and humidity. You could easily feel the
difference under the lilies. That's where the fish hung out until sundown.
Then they all be out looking for food and swimming around.


What's
your favorite?

I have a mix of pond plants. The more the merrier.......

I usually do too, but find the most of the floaters eventually cover
the bottom with debris of some sort, or perhaps they just covered the
bottom and allowed the debris to be out of sight until I moved the
plants and cleaned. I suppose I was hoping for a magic plant that
does wonders. Maybe next year??

There are no magic plants. I wish there were. All drop leaves or bits of
this-and-that. It mixes with the fish feces and forms a mulm on the bottom.
Apparently if you have a bottom drain at the lowest point it sucks all this
stuff out. But because we have to drain the ponds yearly now to remove the
excess fry, we just use the wet-dry vac and suck it out. It goes into the
flower beds surrounding the ponds.
--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

"Hal" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 23:16:06 CST, adavisus
wrote:

Because that makes them more money

Oh well!! You do have some nice looking lilies, but I don't think I
could stand the shipping cost.
--
Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8
http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb
==============================
Wal*Mart will have them for less than $10 each in the spring. I've got them
there for as little as $4.88 each. I've never had one to fail from Wally
World. If it does, they have an excellent return/refund policy.
--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

Wal*Mart will have them for less than $10 each in the spring. I've got them
there for as little as $4.88 each. I've never had one to fail from Wally
World. If it does, they have an excellent return/refund policy.

Walmarts sells unidentified hardy varieties which may turn out to be quite unsuitable for any given pond. Like a pig in a poke, you don't know what you are getting. Is it an odorata, which can spread 15' per year and destroy a lake? Is it an attraction which has very poor flower to leaf ratio, which can dome up 6' tall and twenty foot wide? You don't know.

Assuming it is one of the very robust fast growing varieties, calculate the labour cost involved of trying to get rid of it when it proves to be unsuitable. Calculate the cost of the pond that is destroyed, when, one day the pond is punctured and you cannot find the leak to repair it because the waterlily has choked the entire pond area

What is for sure, they are varieties of waterlily that could not be sold if folk did know what they were, so they are chopped up and sold to walmarts for 20c apiece, for walmarts to use as a loss leader to sell other more profitable items required to make a pond...

"Ooh, look at the cheap waterlily (a half dead to all dead dried out stump) in the pretty box.... oh, lets spend $200 on a pokey little pond and a pump..."

Oh well!! You do have some nice looking lilies, but I don't think I
could stand the shipping cost.

It might cost all of $2.00 to send three tropical tubers anywhere in the world... It might cost all of $4.65 to send half a dozen well chosen hardy waterlily crowns in a l'il priority parcel.

Regards, andy
http://www.members.aol.com/abdavisnc/swglist.html

"adavisus" wrote in message
...

Wal*Mart will have them for less than $10 each in the spring. I've got
them
there for as little as $4.88 each. I've never had one to fail from
Wally
World. If it does, they have an excellent return/refund policy.

Walmarts sells unidentified hardy varieties which may turn out to be
quite unsuitable for any given pond. Like a pig in a poke, you don't
know what you are getting. Is it an odorata, which can spread 15' per
year and destroy a lake? Is it an attraction which has very poor flower
to leaf ratio, which can dome up 6' tall and twenty foot wide? You don't
know.

Yes, you do know. All those I've bought there have names. I never once saw
an unnamed water lily there. Look on the containers, that's where the name
is. None were pigs in a poke just stuck in bags or boxes unnamed. None were
misnamed. And one in fact was a variable miniature.

Assuming it is one of the very robust fast growing varieties, calculate
the labour cost involved of trying to get rid of it when it proves to be
unsuitable.

What labor? You lift the pot and get rid of it if you find it unsuitable.
You have to lift them to divide them anyway.

Calculate the cost of the pond that is destroyed, when, one
day the pond is punctured and you cannot find the leak to repair it
because the waterlily has choked the entire pond area

LOL!!!! You're a hoot! :-D If the lily gets larger than you want you
simply lift it out and give it away it throw it away.


What is for sure, they are varieties of waterlily that could not be
sold if folk did know what they were, so they are chopped up and sold
to walmarts for 20c apiece, for walmarts to use as a loss leader to
sell other more profitable items required to make a pond...

"Ooh, look at the cheap waterlily (a half dead to all dead dried out
stump) in the pretty box.... oh, lets spend $200 on a pokey little pond
and a pump..."

Wow! You should buy a few from Wally World. Mine were all beautiful healthy
plants with many flowers over the spring and summer. I had pics on my
website and people here saw them for themselves.

Oh well!! You do have some nice looking lilies, but I don't think I
could stand the shipping cost.

It might cost all of $2.00 to send three tropical tubers anywhere in
the world... It might cost all of $4.65 to send half a dozen well
chosen hardy waterlily crowns in a l'il priority parcel.



--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:36:16 CST, adavisus
wrote:

Assuming it is one of the very robust fast growing varieties, calculate
the labour cost involved....

That's what I have noted. My most expensive's, just grow and don't make a
lot of (or any) babies, SO much easier to deal with in the spring. Just
trim the tuber, set it back against the pot's edge and refill the empty
void with fresh dirt. If they do make a baby or two, it is worth more than
what one can find at Walmart... that every noob has in their pond already.
~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

Reel McKoi wrote:


"adavisus" wrote in message
...

Wal*Mart will have them for less than $10 each in the spring. I've got
them
there for as little as $4.88 each. I've never had one to fail from
Wally
World. If it does, they have an excellent return/refund policy.

Walmarts sells unidentified hardy varieties which may turn out to be
quite unsuitable for any given pond. Like a pig in a poke, you don't
know what you are getting. Is it an odorata, which can spread 15' per
year and destroy a lake? Is it an attraction which has very poor flower
to leaf ratio, which can dome up 6' tall and twenty foot wide? You don't
know.

Yes, you do know. All those I've bought there have names. I never once
saw an unnamed water lily there. Look on the containers, that's where the
name is. None were pigs in a poke just stuck in bags or boxes unnamed.
None were misnamed. And one in fact was a variable miniature.

They have names, but not scientific ones. I have never seen lilies labelled
as "Odorata" in places like Walmart and Home Depot.

Assuming it is one of the very robust fast growing varieties, calculate
the labour cost involved of trying to get rid of it when it proves to be
unsuitable.

What labor? You lift the pot and get rid of it if you find it unsuitable.
You have to lift them to divide them anyway.

Then you've calculate the labor cost as "negligible" :-) I agree, it's no
big deal.

Calculate the cost of the pond that is destroyed, when, one
day the pond is punctured and you cannot find the leak to repair it
because the waterlily has choked the entire pond area

Why would I let my lilies get so out of control?

LOL!!!! You're a hoot! :-D If the lily gets larger than you want you
simply lift it out and give it away it throw it away.


Oh well!! You do have some nice looking lilies, but I don't think I
could stand the shipping cost.

It might cost all of $2.00 to send three tropical tubers anywhere in
the world...

Not legally. Generally international shipments of plants can't legally be
sent via ordinary mail.

Personally, I'd much rather have my hardy odoratas for steady, profuse,
flower production, year after year, and buy just one or two tropical or
otherwise special plants each spring.
--
derek

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...
Reel McKoi wrote:


"adavisus" wrote in message
...

Wal*Mart will have them for less than $10 each in the spring. I've got
them
there for as little as $4.88 each. I've never had one to fail from
Wally
World. If it does, they have an excellent return/refund policy.

Walmarts sells unidentified hardy varieties which may turn out to be
quite unsuitable for any given pond. Like a pig in a poke, you don't
know what you are getting. Is it an odorata, which can spread 15' per
year and destroy a lake? Is it an attraction which has very poor flower
to leaf ratio, which can dome up 6' tall and twenty foot wide? You don't
know.

Yes, you do know. All those I've bought there have names. I never once
saw an unnamed water lily there. Look on the containers, that's where the
name is. None were pigs in a poke just stuck in bags or boxes unnamed.
None were misnamed. And one in fact was a variable miniature.

They have names, but not scientific ones. I have never seen lilies
labelled
as "Odorata" in places like Walmart and Home Depot.

I only found one old package in the shed. It had a pic of a lily and says,
"Fabiola." I remember another was called "Red Byron" or something like
that. The scientific names wouldn't mean much to the average ponder I
wouldn't think. If so, they can always make note of the names and Google
them. If they're the size you want, go back and buy them. For $4.88 it's
hardly worth the trouble.

Assuming it is one of the very robust fast growing varieties, calculate
the labour cost involved of trying to get rid of it when it proves to be
unsuitable.

What labor? You lift the pot and get rid of it if you find it unsuitable.
You have to lift them to divide them anyway.

Then you've calculate the labor cost as "negligible" :-) I agree, it's no
big deal.

For $4.88 I'd give it away. :-) So far the only monster I had was a $10
white lily that took up most of the smaller pond. I got it at a Home Depot
some years ago. I traded it with someone from the Pond Club for other pond
plants. The thing was a monster!

Calculate the cost of the pond that is destroyed, when, one
day the pond is punctured and you cannot find the leak to repair it
because the waterlily has choked the entire pond area

Why would I let my lilies get so out of control?

LOL!!!! You're a hoot! :-D If the lily gets larger than you want you
simply lift it out and give it away it throw it away.


Oh well!! You do have some nice looking lilies, but I don't think I
could stand the shipping cost.

It might cost all of $2.00 to send three tropical tubers anywhere in
the world...

Not legally. Generally international shipments of plants can't legally be
sent via ordinary mail.

Personally, I'd much rather have my hardy odoratas for steady, profuse,
flower production, year after year, and buy just one or two tropical or
otherwise special plants each spring.
--
derek

Speaking on for myself,... I only had to get rid of one lily. I wouldn't
waste my money on tropical lilies,... that is unless I can find them for
less than $4 each. ;-)

--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö