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Aquarium chemistry
I set up a small aquarium and used de-chlor. Waited a week and bought a
goldfish. After one week it had Ich, used malachite green and raised tank temperature to 80 deg., it recovered. Then at it's 2 week mark the goldfish looked ill and had its tail corroding - I assumed with tailrot. Took a water sample to a petstore and wanted to buy an anti-biotic. The aquariaist said that the sample had high ammonia and that it was not tailrot, would not sell the antibiotic. The fish died that night. http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-cycling.html My question is - with no fish in the tank to continue producing nitrogen, will the cycle shown in the graph on the link above continue as depicted? Or will the cycle be interrupted until I install a new fish to produce new nitrogen? My preference would be to leave the tank alone until day 40 and then feel much better about putting in a new fish. Could not find a group where this would be on-topic, but it is related. |
#2
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Aquarium chemistry
"Stumpy" wrote in message ... I set up a small aquarium and used de-chlor. Waited a week and bought a goldfish. After one week it had Ich, used malachite green and raised tank temperature to 80 deg., it recovered. Then at it's 2 week mark the goldfish looked ill and had its tail corroding - I assumed with tailrot. Took a water sample to a petstore and wanted to buy an anti-biotic. The aquariaist said that the sample had high ammonia and that it was not tailrot, would not sell the antibiotic. The fish died that night. http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-cycling.html My question is - with no fish in the tank to continue producing nitrogen, will the cycle shown in the graph on the link above continue as depicted? Or will the cycle be interrupted until I install a new fish to produce new nitrogen? My preference would be to leave the tank alone until day 40 and then feel much better about putting in a new fish. Could not find a group where this would be on-topic, but it is related. ====================================== I wish I had the time to type you a small booklet on cycling and goldfish care. You can Google "aquarium+cycling" and "goldfish+care" and get a lot more information than you need or that anyone can type here for you in a few minutes. -- RM.... Frugal ponding since 1995. rec.ponder since late 1996. Zone 6. Middle TN USA ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö |
#3
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Aquarium chemistry
Stumpy wrote:
I set up a small aquarium and used de-chlor. Waited a week and bought a goldfish. After one week it had Ich, used malachite green and raised tank temperature to 80 deg., it recovered. Then at it's 2 week mark the goldfish looked ill and had its tail corroding - I assumed with tailrot. Took a water sample to a petstore and wanted to buy an anti-biotic. The aquariaist said that the sample had high ammonia and that it was not tailrot, would not sell the antibiotic. The fish died that night. http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-cycling.html My question is - with no fish in the tank to continue producing nitrogen, will the cycle shown in the graph on the link above continue as depicted? Or will the cycle be interrupted until I install a new fish to produce new nitrogen? My preference would be to leave the tank alone until day 40 and then feel much better about putting in a new fish. Could not find a group where this would be on-topic, but it is related. Your tank won't continue cycling if there is nothing in there to produce waste. You could possibly continue cycling the tank without fish using a procedure known as "fishless cycling" - this is where you add small amounts of ammonia to the tank and continue testing as if there are fish in there - once you reach zero nitrites and ammonia your tank will be cycled - never tried it myself but there are a lot of people who swear by this technique as it doesn't involve any stress to fish. A good place to ask any of your questions is:- http://groups.google.com/group/The-F...m?lnk=li&hl=en HTH Gill |
#4
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Aquarium chemistry
On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 10:47:26 CST, "Stumpy"
wrote: Let me say right up front that you are welcome and on topic here when talking about fish and fish health. Most of us have fish and ponds of different sizes and different filtering systems and we sometimes have different ideas about keeping fish, so hang around, we are mostly friendly. I set up a small aquarium and used de-chlor. Waited a week and bought a goldfish. I use city water treated with chlorine, not chloramines, and I used to fill my aquarium 10 gal with city water put in a chlorine remover and replace fish immediately. I could set aside 10 gallons of city water and leave it sit at room temperature overnight and use it without chlorine remover without ill effects to goldfish. After one week it had Ich, used malachite green and raised tank temperature to 80 deg., it recovered. Then at it's 2 week mark the goldfish looked ill and had its tail corroding - I assumed with tailrot. Took a water sample to a petstore and wanted to buy an anti-biotic. The aquariaist said that the sample had high ammonia and that it was not tailrot, would not sell the antibiotic. The fish died that night. Let's assume the clerk was right and let me say, I'm sorry you lost your fish. To prevent this happening in the future, may I suggest you get your own aquarium test kit. A good one can be purchased where I am for between $20 and $30. It includes pH, GH and Ammonia tests. Mine also includes Nitrite and Nitrate tests, but I've never received a positive with either of these in my pond, so I tend to ignore them. http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-cycling.html My question is - with no fish in the tank to continue producing nitrogen, will the cycle shown in the graph on the link above continue as depicted? Or will the cycle be interrupted until I install a new fish to produce new nitrogen? My preference would be to leave the tank alone until day 40 and then feel much better about putting in a new fish. I think it is difficult to answer your question without knowing the tank. Mine was an under gravel filter (Some time ago.) and needed frequent cleaning compared to some of today's aquarium filtering systems. I had to learn to change water more frequently than most aquarist do these days and still am not in favor of such long waiting periods without fish. My opinion is to clean the tank and filters remove anything that removes ammonia. (These items, once saturated release ammonia back into the water.) Use a chlorine remover adjust the temperature and replace fish immediately. Use my test kit weekly or daily when problems occur, and rely on water changes to help me regulate the balance of the water. (I would use chlorine remover in the new water if I changed more than 20% of the water.) I would also suggest goldfish feeders,(cheap) until you feel more comfortable with managing the water. I trust others here will offer their thoughts. -- Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8 http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb |
#5
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Aquarium chemistry
On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 20:57:17 CST, "Reel McKoi" wrote:
I wish I had the time to type you a small booklet on cycling and goldfish care. You can Google "aquarium+cycling" and "goldfish+care" and get a lot more information than you need or that anyone can type here for you in a few minutes. I've been struggling with how to comment to this. I think it was good advice to point out Google and what terms to use, but perhaps if one doesn't have the time, it would be better not to dismiss the OP by saying so? Also the assumption "that anyone can type here for you" is pretty big. At various times many of us have LOTS of time, especially during these winter months. ;-) To the OP, please come back when you get going again. There are far simpler solutions to cycling a tank and sick fish, especially goldfish, that we can help you with. Hal mentioned buying your own test kits. And I would recommend having salt, baking soda and ammonia binder on hand. Also, when purchasing an ammonia test kit, get the salicylate test kind. ~ jan ------------ Zone 7a, SE Washington State Ponds: www.jjspond.us |
#6
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Aquarium chemistry
"~ jan" wrote in message ... I've been struggling with how to comment to this. I think it was good advice to point out Google and what terms to use, but perhaps if one doesn't have the time, it would be better not to dismiss the OP by saying so? Also the assumption "that anyone can type here for you" is pretty big. At various times many of us have LOTS of time, especially during these winter months. ;-) To the OP, please come back when you get going again. There are far simpler solutions to cycling a tank and sick fish, especially goldfish, that we can help you with. Hal mentioned buying your own test kits. And I would recommend having salt, baking soda and ammonia binder on hand. Also, when purchasing an ammonia test kit, get the salicylate test kind. ~ jan ==================== Sorry about that. I wasn't thinking. It was a bit off topic for the group and a newbie needs sooooooo much information. -- RM.... Frugal ponding since 1995. rec.ponder since late 1996. Zone 6. Middle TN USA ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö |
#7
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Aquarium chemistry
On Jan 18, 11:47*am, "Stumpy" wrote:
I set up a small aquarium and used de-chlor. *Waited a week and bought a goldfish. *After one week it had Ich, used malachite green and raised tank temperature to 80 deg., it recovered. *Then at it's 2 week mark the goldfish looked ill and had its tail corroding - I assumed with tailrot. *Took a water sample to a petstore and wanted to buy an anti-biotic. *The aquariaist said that the sample had high ammonia and that *it was not tailrot, would not sell the antibiotic. *The fish died that night. http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-cycling.html My question is - with no fish in the tank to continue producing nitrogen, will the cycle shown in the graph on the link above continue as depicted? Or will the cycle be interrupted until I install a new fish to produce new nitrogen? *My preference would be to leave the tank alone until day 40 and then feel much better about putting in a new fish. Could not find a group where this would be on-topic, but it is related. You have a small aquarium with no fish and ammonia in the water. In regards to your question, yes, the nitrifying bacteria which will take the tank through its cycle will continue to develop if there is no fish in the aquarium. These bacteria establish themselves in the filter's sponge, so don't damage them by hard washing or replacement. There are some other things to be aware of, but as was already mentioned here, it's a big subject. This still leaves a lot of unanswered questions, such as, is my aquarium big enough or even suitable for ... and what type of goldfish (fancy typically require warmer water, comets do better in longer tanks etc etc). There are Goldfish FAQ if your heart is set on a Goldfish. http://fish.turquoisewave.com/index....26&Itemi d=37 And there is aquarium-specific advice available at the Freshwater Aquarium http://groups.google.com/group/The-F...quarium/topics which can include many types of fish which may or may not be more applicable to your setup. ps: to rpm, sorry to pinch a poster, I was just wandering by and thought I could help ;~) cheers NetMax |
#8
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Aquarium chemistry
On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:44:30 CST, NetMax wrote:
And there is aquarium-specific advice available at the Freshwater Aquarium http://groups.google.com/group/The-F...quarium/topics which can include many types of fish which may or may not be more applicable to your setup. ps: to rpm, sorry to pinch a poster, I was just wandering by and thought I could help ;~) cheers NetMax As long as the OP gets help, who cares where? ;-) Just be sure and send any ponders over to us. ~ jan ------------ Zone 7a, SE Washington State Ponds: www.jjspond.us |
#9
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Aquarium chemistry
You have a small aquarium with no fish and ammonia in the water. In regards to your question, yes, the nitrifying bacteria which will take the tank through its cycle will continue to develop if there is no fish in the aquarium. These bacteria establish themselves in the filter's sponge, so don't damage them by hard washing or replacement. There are some other things to be aware of, but as was already mentioned here, it's a big subject. This is good news. I'll assume that if I wait the ~40 days I saw on the graph, then is a good time to try again. This still leaves a lot of unanswered questions, such as, is my aquarium big enough or even suitable for ... and what type of goldfish (fancy typically require warmer water, comets do better in longer tanks etc etc). There are Goldfish FAQ if your heart is set on a Goldfish. http://fish.turquoisewave.com/index....26&Itemi d=37 And there is aquarium-specific advice available at the Freshwater Aquarium http://groups.google.com/group/The-F...quarium/topics which can include many types of fish which may or may not be more applicable to your setup. ps: to rpm, sorry to pinch a poster, I was just wandering by and thought I could help ;~) cheers NetMax Thanks for the links. I'll explore Google groups. The goldfish was my wife's idea - it doesn't have to be perfect. Just want to avoid future health problems and trauma/drama in the toilet bowl. |
#10
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Aquarium chemistry
Your tank won't continue cycling if there is nothing in there to produce waste. You could possibly continue cycling the tank without fish using a procedure known as "fishless cycling" - this is where you add small amounts of ammonia to the tank and continue testing as if there are fish in there - once you reach zero nitrites and ammonia your tank will be cycled - never tried it myself but there are a lot of people who swear by this technique as it doesn't involve any stress to fish. A good place to ask any of your questions is:- http://groups.google.com/group/The-F...m?lnk=li&hl=en HTH Gill Thanks much. Don't want to add more chemicals if I don't have to. The only ammonia I have is 10% ammonium hydroxide "janitorial strength" that I use to clean out plugged ink-jet printer heads. I'll follow up on your link, but have never used Google groups. |
#11
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Aquarium chemistry
On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:44:30 CST, NetMax
wrote: ps: to rpm, sorry to pinch a poster, I was just wandering by and thought I could help ;~) Positive input is always welcome. -- Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8 http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb |
#12
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Aquarium chemistry
On Jan 19, 10:25*am, Gill Passman
wrote: Stumpy wrote: I set up a small aquarium and used de-chlor. *Waited a week and bought a goldfish. *After one week it had Ich, used malachite green and raised tank temperature to 80 deg., it recovered. *Then at it's 2 week mark the goldfish looked ill and had its tail corroding - I assumed with tailrot. *Took a water sample to a petstore and wanted to buy an anti-biotic. *The aquariaist said that the sample had high ammonia and that *it was not tailrot, would not sell the antibiotic. *The fish died that night. http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-cycling.html My question is - with no fish in the tank to continue producing nitrogen, will the cycle shown in the graph on the link above continue as depicted? Or will the cycle be interrupted until I install a new fish to produce new nitrogen? *My preference would be to leave the tank alone until day 40 and then feel much better about putting in a new fish. Could not find a group where this would be on-topic, but it is related. Your tank won't continue cycling if there is nothing in there to produce waste. You could possibly continue cycling the tank without fish using a procedure known as "fishless cycling" - this is where you add small amounts of ammonia to the tank and continue testing as if there are fish in there - once you reach zero nitrites and ammonia your tank will be cycled - never tried it myself but there are a lot of people who swear by this technique as it doesn't involve any stress to fish. A good place to ask any of your questions is:- http://groups.google.com/group/The-F...m?lnk=li&hl=en HTH Gill- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Hi Gill, the most recent articles on fishless cycling describe it exactly as you're saying; replenishing the ammonia periodically (daily). I think this does result in a larger bacterial culture, but note that there is also a school of thought that levels of ammonia which are too high can inhibit the bacteria which complete the process taking the nitrite to nitrate (ref: never-ending cycle). The original method which was the only one I've had personal experience with, was using a single dose of ammonia to about 5ppm (though the concentration doesn't seem to be very critical) and then waiting for the process to complete itself. There is some concern that in the resulting interval where there is no ammonia (only nitrite), that some bacteria might die off, which is why the more refined method described above was developed (I think by the same fellow who documented the first method on the net). Ultimately, both systems work, though I lean towards the simpler 2nd method when trying to coach someone over the internet who may not have the same inclination towards daily water testing. cheers NetMax |
#13
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Aquarium chemistry
Hi Gill, the most recent articles on fishless cycling describe it exactly as you're saying; replenishing the ammonia periodically (daily). I think this does result in a larger bacterial culture, but note that there is also a school of thought that levels of ammonia which are too high can inhibit the bacteria which complete the process taking the nitrite to nitrate (ref: never-ending cycle). The original method which was the only one I've had personal experience with, was using a single dose of ammonia to about 5ppm (though the concentration doesn't seem to be very critical) and then waiting for the process to complete itself. There is some concern that in the resulting interval where there is no ammonia (only nitrite), that some bacteria might die off, which is why the more refined method described above was developed (I think by the same fellow who documented the first method on the net). Ultimately, both systems work, though I lean towards the simpler 2nd method when trying to coach someone over the internet who may not have the same inclination towards daily water testing. cheers NetMax If I wanted to add 5ppm ammonia. How many mls, oz, or maybe drops would I add of 10% ammonium hydroxide to a 5 gallon tank? |
#14
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Aquarium chemistry
Hi U2..
NetMax wrote: On Jan 19, 10:25*am, Gill Passman wrote: @ Gill: Your tank won't continue cycling if there is nothing in there to produce waste. ACK.. You could possibly continue cycling the tank without fish using a procedure known as "fishless cycling" - this is where you add small amounts of ammonia to the tank and continue testing as if there are fish in there - once you reach zero nitrites and ammonia your tank will be cycled Yes and no..! Fishless cycling is (of course!) fishless cycling but it's not automatically a cycling with ammonia.. - never tried it myself but there are a lot of people who swear by this technique as it doesn't involve any stress to fish. Yes and no.. A good place to ask any of your questions is:- http://groups.google.com/group/The-F...m?lnk=li&hl=en ACK.. @ NM: Hi Gill, the most recent articles on fishless cycling describe it exactly as you're saying; replenishing the ammonia periodically (daily). I think this does result in a larger bacterial culture, Well this kind of method might support bacterial cultures that prefer _anorganic_ N ressources while denitrifying bacteria generally seem to prefer organic waste.. but note that there is also a school of thought that levels of ammonia which are too high can inhibit the bacteria which complete the process taking the nitrite to nitrate (ref: never-ending cycle). Hmm.., don't think so - any links available..? -- cu Marco |
#15
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Aquarium chemistry
"Stumpy" wrote in message ... If I wanted to add 5ppm ammonia. How many mls, oz, or maybe drops would I add of 10% ammonium hydroxide to a 5 gallon tank? ================ Hi Stumpy, if you aquarium is only 5 gallons it is much too small for a goldfish. A small healthy well fed young goldfish will outgrow it in well under a year. You would be much better off with a betta or a few small tetras. Healthy GF can reach a foot in length. -- RM.... Frugal ponding since 1995. rec.ponder since late 1996. Zone 6. Middle TN USA ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö |
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