On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 23:04:07 EDT, Pond Addict
wrote:

Ok, the picture is up there now:

http://homepage.mac.com/pondstuff/PhotoAlbum1.html

The 4/17/08 images are new. It's actually only one image, followed by
a close-up of the damaged area from that image. It was really hard to
get *any* pictures of this fish today, thus the poor quality.

Observations: The wounded area is lighter than it has been and has
rips in what was previously the "loose skin." Pink "flesh" is visible
past the rips. Also, some algae has transferred to the area that's
tearing off. The fish still behaves normally.
Thanks,
Dave

It looks like the area has been re-injured. I'm thinking you're going to
have to catch this fish, do a salt dip, put it in aquarium with salt at
0.3% and order some Tricide-Neo. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:11:27 EDT, ~ jan wrote:

Dave, have you been able to catch fish?

I've gotten more answers and most agree that what the fish has over the
wound now is bad stuff and needs to be removed.

They suggest scrubbing the wound with Malachite Green or at least hydrogen
peroxide. Then sealing the wound with denture adhesive, or there is a
product out there called Bio Bandage for fish.

Do bring fish in, salt 0.3%, warm up to 78F after salt dip. Do you have
info for salt dip? ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

Thanks for the info, Jan.

I was away, so I haven't caught the fish yet. But, the Tricide-Neo
arrived today. Should I still use that and if so, is that in place of
the salt dip?

I have the .3% water ready for the fish... when I catch it.

My salt dip info in my Koi Health & Disease book says 50 Tablespoons
to 5 Gal. for a max 7-10 min unless the fish is stressing/flipping
over, then move to quarantine, and repeat every 12 hours for 3 dips
total. Is that what you were thinking?

I'm hoping to catch the fish today using the "bird netting" method Joe
mentioned. I think that's the only way I'll ever get it.

The algae on the wound is gone, and the area is a lighter orange now.
The fish is still eating and active.

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:26:29 EDT, Pond Addict
wrote:

I was away, so I haven't caught the fish yet. But, the Tricide-Neo
arrived today. Should I still use that and if so, is that in place of
the salt dip?

Salt dip first, put in aquarium, let it rest a bit. Then clean wound with
H2O2 and use the Tricide-Neo following the directions. You'll need DI
water. I found it easier to make the gallon amount, and have DI water on
hand to rinse fish before and after.

My salt dip info in my Koi Health & Disease book says 50 Tablespoons
to 5 Gal. for a max 7-10 min unless the fish is stressing/flipping
over, then move to quarantine, and repeat every 12 hours for 3 dips
total. Is that what you were thinking?

3% is the amount you're shooting for, usually 5 minutes max. 1 time, to get
any parasites off the fish.

Just went back and look for new info. Recommendation is to scrub the wound
with a salt paste and then rinse with saline. That's if what it has is a
fungus growing on the wound. IMhO, you still need to salt dip, clean wound,
and use the Tricide-Neo. I'm betting that will do the trick, especially
since fish is acting so healthy otherwise.

Keep me posted. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

I'm worried about putting denture adhesive on the fish... I'm not sure
if what I got is the right stuff or not and it just seems like a
really foreign substance. Given my experience of killing the fish by
doing too much, that part makes me nervous.

We only have chain pet stores which are poorly stocked for fish first
aid, so I ordered some bio bandage and malachite green for at least
next time, if not this time.

I came very close to catching it yesterday, but my bird netting was a
bit too short and the daylight ran out. I got a larger roll of bird
netting and I'm sure I'll get it today. Once I catch it, I'll take
some better pictures and make some slides prior to dipping.

What is DI water?

Thanks,

Dave

I got it in. It looks really bad. That eye is glazed over again.

I checked under the microscope for bad things, and didn't see any with
slides made from the wound area, as well as normal swipes.

I gave it a salt dip but had to pull it out at 4 minutes. It was on
its side and shocky with its mouth stuck open. I put it in the
aquarium and after maybe 5 or 10 minutes it came around. It's now
swimming, but clearly annoyed at being confined.

Man, that wound is a bloody-looking mess.

http://homepage.mac.com/pondstuff/PhotoAlbum1.html
See the 4/22/08 image.

I put a large one up there since I finally got a good view of things.
The other side of the fish looks good.

Dave

This was an E-mail reply to Dave, but in case other were interested in what
I was suggesting:

I got the fish in. I've taken a picture and posted it at the usual place:

http://homepage.mac.com/pondstuff/PhotoAlbum1.html

See the last picture.

Oh yes, that definitely needs to be scrubbed. Your choice if it is salt
paste or H2O2. I've always used H2O2 myself. Course don't get it in the
gills.

at .36%. Is that ok?

Yes, that's fine.

How do I clean the area with the hydrogen peroxide? Do I want to remove the
loose stuff, or just swab the wound gently?

Have paper towels and Q-tips on hand. In a circular motion scrub the area,
go under and remove any loose scales around the edges. Rinse, dab dry, and
put in the Tricide Neo. This is all easier to do if you put the fish to
sleep with Finquel, but if you haven't had a class in using it, I'm
hesitant to suggest it. But if you want to try, I'll try to talk you thru
using it.

As far as the Tricide-Neo, put solution in a bag, then fish, and hold bag
up so fish is immersed. In reality it isn't as bad as it seems.

Or you could scrub, iodine, antibiotic-type ointment and denture adhesive
powder
(sorry, it wasn't till later I saw that it was the powdered form that is
suggested not the other version)
and wait 3 days while the fish is fasting so it doesn't mess up the
Tricide-Neo, but we could also lose precious time if we wait. If you choose
the above, you won't scrub it again prior to the Tricide-Neo dipping.

And DI water is just distilled water?

Yes. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us