One of the cautions I received when I proposed making a sloping beach
in my mini pond was to not use sand as it would all end up in the
bottom of the pond.

OK- so then I saw an article online that proposed mortaring a band of
round stones across the slope to hold the beach from slipping lower.
I'm in NY so I'm always conscious of frost heave and don't like the
idea of sharp broken edges of mortar on my pond liner. [it will be 45
mil EPDM]

I've been looking unsuccessfully for something online that discusses
doing the same thing with silicone or some flexible cement.

I want a few feet [about 15-20 square feet] of stone bottom, up to
about 6" deep for birds & dogs to splash about in. What's the
best way to accomplish this?

Thanks,
Jim

Jim Elbrecht wrote:

OK- so then I saw an article online that proposed mortaring a band of
round stones across the slope to hold the beach from slipping lower.
I'm in NY so I'm always conscious of frost heave and don't like the
idea of sharp broken edges of mortar on my pond liner. [it will be 45
mil EPDM]

I've been looking unsuccessfully for something online that discusses
doing the same thing with silicone

have you ever looked at the instructions for silicone cement? "Not for use
below the waterline". Paradoxical as this sounds, as it's used for
aquariums, it's true. Siliconing stones in a wet environment is useless.
I tried it for a reef in my cichlid aquarium, with disastrous
consequences... It works for holding glass plates together for two
reasons - they're _very_ smooth, and only an extremely tiny bit of the glue
is exposed to water.

or some flexible cement.

"Stuff" - polyurethane foam - works well, but should be painted to keep it
from sun exposure. It might be sufficient just to sprinkle sand over the
exposed foam, before it cures.
--
derek

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 09:24:05 EDT, Jim Elbrecht wrote:

One of the cautions I received when I proposed making a sloping beach
in my mini pond was to not use sand as it would all end up in the
bottom of the pond.

OK- so then I saw an article online that proposed mortaring a band of
round stones across the slope to hold the beach from slipping lower.
I'm in NY so I'm always conscious of frost heave and don't like the
idea of sharp broken edges of mortar on my pond liner. [it will be 45
mil EPDM]

I've been looking unsuccessfully for something online that discusses
doing the same thing with silicone or some flexible cement.

I want a few feet [about 15-20 square feet] of stone bottom, up to
about 6" deep for birds & dogs to splash about in. What's the
best way to accomplish this?
Jim

How about instead of thinking on the liner, think under? As in make a ridge
under the liner and lay the liner over it? ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

~ jan wrote:

-snip-
How about instead of thinking on the liner, think under? As in make a ridge
under the liner and lay the liner over it? ~ jan


That has occurred to me, but I'm not sure how well underliner contours
hold up in a freeze/thaw part of the country. [zone 5-6, in NY]

Also not sure what type of soil I'll find there. Beneath the thin
layer of sod my 1/2 acre varies from 5feet of beach-type sand to
gravel, to clay. If this spot is clay I would be inclined to give
it a try. If it's sand I wouldn't trust it at all.

I just read a Savio pond setup guide last night, and they say to use
the waterfall foam to hold a band of rocks.
http://www.savio.cc/images/uploads/S...000-Manual.pdf
[page 26]

The diagram on that page raises a couple question.

1. Why have the sudden drop right after the 'beach'? Seems like
a trap/hazard waiting to catch an unsuspecting wader.

2. Wouldn't gluing all the rocks lessen the gook that will settle
between them? I'm only talking about 10-20 square feet.

Jim

~ jan wrote:

How about instead of thinking on the liner, think under? As in make a
ridge under the liner and lay the liner over it? ~ jan

Doh! Here I am advising him what cement to use, and completely forgetting
that I _did_ that with my bog...
--
derek

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:08:29 EDT, Derek Broughton
wrote:

~ jan wrote:

How about instead of thinking on the liner, think under? As in make a
ridge under the liner and lay the liner over it? ~ jan

Doh! Here I am advising him what cement to use, and completely forgetting
that I _did_ that with my bog...

If your @. . .ca address doesn't mislead me, then an under-liner berm
must survive a few frosts. [at least in your soil] Did you use
an underliner of any kind? or reinforce it with newspaper, padding,
mortar or some such?

My only other concern would be how it responds to being walked on once
in a while.

Jim

Jim Elbrecht wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:08:29 EDT, Derek Broughton
wrote:

~ jan wrote:

How about instead of thinking on the liner, think under? As in make a
ridge under the liner and lay the liner over it? ~ jan

Doh! Here I am advising him what cement to use, and completely forgetting
that I _did_ that with my bog...

If your @. . .ca address doesn't mislead me, then an under-liner berm
must survive a few frosts. [at least in your soil] Did you use
an underliner of any kind? or reinforce it with newspaper, padding,
mortar or some such?

No, no, no and no. The pond is in extremely sandy soil. In a hole for a
5000 gallon pond, I found one fist sized pebble, and a broken drain tile.
So there was nothing to cause punctures, I was never concerned about frost
(frost heaves only really happen in undrained soil - you need some water to
freeze and thaw). If you're really worrying about heaving under the berm,
dig a hole and fill it with 6" of gravel, _then_ start the berm.

My only other concern would be how it responds to being walked on once
in a while.

That was always my concern - I had no thoughts at the time I dug it about
the fact that sandy soil also isn't self-supporting :-) However, I had
absolutely no slumping of the sides in the time I owned it. Again, when
you have really good drainage, there's no inward hydraulic pressure, so the
water in the pond holds the walls in place. My bog-berm probably did get
compressed a bit, but not significantly.
--
derek

what i worry about is what will dog claws do to the liner - if u follow jans
suggestion and then put slate or even thin cement pavers on top of the liner
and then sand on top of this u would avoid the problem of a soon punctured
liner - another note - 6" is way too deep for birds. donna


"~ jan" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 09:24:05 EDT, Jim Elbrecht wrote:

One of the cautions I received when I proposed making a sloping beach
in my mini pond was to not use sand as it would all end up in the
bottom of the pond.

OK- so then I saw an article online that proposed mortaring a band of
round stones across the slope to hold the beach from slipping lower.
I'm in NY so I'm always conscious of frost heave and don't like the
idea of sharp broken edges of mortar on my pond liner. [it will be 45
mil EPDM]

I've been looking unsuccessfully for something online that discusses
doing the same thing with silicone or some flexible cement.

I want a few feet [about 15-20 square feet] of stone bottom, up to
about 6" deep for birds & dogs to splash about in. What's the
best way to accomplish this?
Jim

How about instead of thinking on the liner, think under? As in make a
ridge
under the liner and lay the liner over it? ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

D Kat wrote:

what i worry about is what will dog claws do to the liner - if u follow
jans suggestion and then put slate or even thin cement pavers on top of
the liner and then sand on top of this u would avoid the problem of a soon
punctured
liner -

I had a dog who routinely _fell_ into the pond, and never managed to do it
any harm. EPDM is flexible enough to handle dog claws, imo.

another note - 6" is way too deep for birds. donna

Yes. I never had birds drown in my big pond, because they could always get
out, but I drowned a sparrow and a mouse in my tub pond before I managed to
devise a way for them to get out - and it never had 6" of water in it.
--
derek