I have a 18500G pool I am converting to a big pond. Want to go as much
natural bio veggie filter as possible to keep the water eco clean and
transparent as in "Green", but not green water. I have enough pump and
mechanical filter to flow about 8000GPH, but veggie filters need it slow
and steady, right. I have enough space to make the veggie filter about
1/3 the surface size of the pool. Since I am in Phoenix the idea of a
large wet garden up behind the pond really appeals to me.

What would the ideal size be, surface and depth, for my veggie filter?

Chip

Never tried one for a pond that big! The rule of thumb is veggie
filter = 10% of the surface of the pond as a minimum. More is surely
better! As I understand it, you need at least a 45 minute flow-
through time to allow settling. You can always divert some of the
water around the veggie filter to slow it up. Our veggie filters are
18" deep with EDPM liners.

At about 30% the pool surface, you should be doing fine! The veggie
filter needs to have fast growing 'rooty' plants to grab nutrients,
convert them to growth, provide surface for bacteria to transform
nitrites to nitrates. You will know you have too many plants when
they stop growing.

Your veggie filter will be a fine baby tank, if you want. We run
mosquito fish to avoid mosquitos.

Other folks will probably have more scientific advice.

Jim

My main tip, plan for maintenance. Our experiment in veggie
filtering in a side bog quickly filled with sludge. We did a much
better job with floating plants and plant filled baskets we could
remove to clean the thing.

k :-)

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 22:56:16 EDT, Phyllis and Jim
wrote:

Never tried one for a pond that big! The rule of thumb is veggie
filter = 10% of the surface of the pond as a minimum. More is surely
better! As I understand it, you need at least a 45 minute flow-
through time to allow settling. You can always divert some of the
water around the veggie filter to slow it up. Our veggie filters are
18" deep with EDPM liners.

And depending on your financial situation, a big vortex filter to catch the
solids before the veggie filter would mean the veggie filter would last a
long time without needing to clean it. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

Phoenix means no winter, so you can basically get stuff growing that will do the
actually "slow down" of the flow with roots alone.

There are plants that float in a veggie filter, hyacinths and lettuce. Then there
are plants that stand upright, thereby providing a much greater volume to the actual
surface area. Like cyperus (papyrus) and water celery.

Then there is making a veggie filter that looks more like a really lush planted
garden, nice, neat inside a pretty planter, and all SELF WATERING. For this you mix
water plants with their roots bare in the water and plants in pots.

If you want a nice clear pond you are going to have to do some shading. There is
just too much sun. For that reason, I would suggest the veggie filter be built right
over part of the pond. this gives a bit of elevation to the filter and it can spill
back into the pond with a nice waterfall, not too high (evaporation). the other
benefit is that any overflow problems, any leaking and the water is not pumped OUT of
the pond, it spills back into the pond.

and as a way to break up the edge of the pond (I am assuming it is rectangular) I
have a visual of a series of veggie filters of different lengths, different heights,
different widths, some with floating plants, some with taller ones all spilling back
into the pond.
like this http://weloveteaching.com/mypond/etc...ggiefilter.jpg

the pump would be attached to PVC in the back that divides the water up into the
boxes, with valves so the water would flow faster in some, slower in others. Ingrid

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 18:14:15 EDT, Chip wrote:
I have a 18500G pool I am converting to a big pond. Want to go as much
natural bio veggie filter as possible to keep the water eco clean and
transparent as in "Green", but not green water. I have enough pump and
mechanical filter to flow about 8000GPH, but veggie filters need it slow
and steady, right. I have enough space to make the veggie filter about
1/3 the surface size of the pool. Since I am in Phoenix the idea of a
large wet garden up behind the pond really appeals to me.

What would the ideal size be, surface and depth, for my veggie filter?

Chip

I forgot to add. I think a UV filter is essential for your amount of sun, but how
much veggie filter is a function of how many fish and the type of food you feed.
I think an ideal depth is 10-12", no more. Ingrid

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 18:14:15 EDT, Chip wrote:
I have a 18500G pool I am converting to a big pond. Want to go as much
natural bio veggie filter as possible to keep the water eco clean and
transparent as in "Green", but not green water. I have enough pump and
mechanical filter to flow about 8000GPH, but veggie filters need it slow
and steady, right. I have enough space to make the veggie filter about
1/3 the surface size of the pool. Since I am in Phoenix the idea of a
large wet garden up behind the pond really appeals to me.

What would the ideal size be, surface and depth, for my veggie filter?

Chip

Kathy is surely right! Easy cleaning makes happy ponders!

Out veggie filters have drains in the bottom. Open and flush! Our
initial 4 x 4 veggie filter becomes so full the muck is like jelly.
But that is just what we want!

Here is a link to our pond album. It shows the cleaning.

http://picasaweb.google.com/jimandph...lisAndJimSPond

Our pondsite is more of a tour.

home.bellsouth.net/personalpages/pwp-jameshurley

Jim

Phyllis and Jim wrote:
Kathy is surely right! Easy cleaning makes happy ponders!

Out veggie filters have drains in the bottom. Open and flush! Our
initial 4 x 4 veggie filter becomes so full the muck is like jelly.
But that is just what we want!

Here is a link to our pond album. It shows the cleaning.

http://picasaweb.google.com/jimandph...lisAndJimSPond

Our pondsite is more of a tour.

home.bellsouth.net/personalpages/pwp-jameshurley

Jim

Thanks all you guys, great advice! Actually going to build a 12' dia
plank island just over the water, so that I can get that much shade on
the pond.

Would anybody like to comment on flowing water in the veggie filter from
the bottom and taking it back to the pond from the top or vice-versa or
doesn't it matter? Does the water direction effect ease of cleaning? I
would like to get the plumbing and maintenance piping right the 1st
time. Allow it to work for me rather than against me. I have lots of
room to allow the waste to flow onto the ground and maybe new garden.

Chip

Ingrid,

I am interested that you prefer 10-12" for the veggie filter. What
guides your choice of depth?

We went with two 8" boards for depth. They seem to be working fine.
Our water celery and hyacinth send roots down essentially all 18" of
our veggie filter depth. I think that increases the filtering and the
catching of muck. They would fill faster at 10-12".

Jim

I couldn't make the link work. Idi I goof?

Jim

In one end, falling from top or in at bottom. Ours is falling from the
top from the Southwest corner of the 4 x 4. The exit is at the
southeast corner. The water has a slight circular motion.

Slowly through the filter taking about 45 minutes to allow settling.

Out at the top of the far end, leaving muck on the bottom.

Jim

with our winters the water celery dies off. in spring it takes time to get the roots
to the bottom of the filter in order to effectively slow down the flow and filter
particulates. also, I put pots of colorful flowers in my filter and holding them up
so only the very bottom is in the water gets more difficult the deeper the filter.
the deeper the water, the more robust the lengths of the veggie filter have to be to
keep from bowing out.
Ingrid

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 21:33:03 EDT, Phyllis and Jim wrote:

Ingrid,

I am interested that you prefer 10-12" for the veggie filter. What
guides your choice of depth?

We went with two 8" boards for depth. They seem to be working fine.
Our water celery and hyacinth send roots down essentially all 18" of
our veggie filter depth. I think that increases the filtering and the
catching of muck. They would fill faster at 10-12".

Jim

putting a hole in my filter or my pond that could some day leak would give me such
nightmares (OK, so I have a very active imagination) that I keep think I SHOULD do
that, but I just cant bring myself to actually do it. sigh. Ingrid

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 18:07:17 EDT, Phyllis and Jim wrote:
Kathy is surely right! Easy cleaning makes happy ponders!

Out veggie filters have drains in the bottom. Open and flush! Our
initial 4 x 4 veggie filter becomes so full the muck is like jelly.
But that is just what we want!

wrote:
putting a hole in my filter or my pond that could some day leak would give me such
nightmares (OK, so I have a very active imagination) that I keep think I SHOULD do
that, but I just cant bring myself to actually do it. sigh. Ingrid

At last I have something to contribute instead of just taking. Thanks
for the opportunity.

I don't know who 1st gave me this site, maybe from this list. It shows
an almost foolproof and easy method to put a watertight pipe through a
liner.
http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51520

Chip

I understand the fear! Leaks are a pain.

Our veggie filters are EDPM with compression around a toilet flange on
the bottom. The inflow is from a pipe above the level of the filter
of from an adjacent filter through a sipillway.

Link to pic of 4 x 4 installation (and pond album):
http://picasaweb.google.com/jimandph...58152477668738

Jim