Ok so when i brought my house it came with a pond. and some fish. which was at first a nice suprise.

but now it is just stressing me out!

the pond is quite small, i'd say 1 meter by 2.5 or something like that and really not very deep. the water is yucky and it is stuffed with fish.

i have been vaugly feeding them, fishing out excess weed, trimming overhanding plabts and topping it up and tho it's a bit yuck as i say the fish seem happy enough (not that i can really tell a happy fish from a sad one!)

now it has been really hot i have been topping the pond up a bit, just with tap water, but now i notice the level is going down rather quickly and i suspect a leak.

eek.


so i thought i would get a new liner, see if i can pry the old one out from the concrete it's set in, see if there is any chance i can dig deeper and also see if i can get the water cleaner.

i have a couple of plastic crates i can bung the fish in while i do this (while looking after a small bab, this is gonna be such i fun weekend!) i assume if i don't take too long and keep them in shade this will be okay.

but i think i may have way too many fish for such a small pond and really don't know what to do, there seem to be an awful lot of small babies.

so really i need any advice anyone can give about fixing the leak, changing the water (can i just use tap water?) fishing them out (specific nets?) filters or things that i could add to make the fish happier (cheap and simple to mantain) and whether fish will keep on breeding when they have no space to do so and if there is any way to stop them...

i love the little pond, love watching the frog spawn, dragonflys and fishies but my god it is stressing me out. i keep having nightmares about all the fish flopping about gasping for air

Welcome to RPM!

First off - see if you can get rid of some of the fish.
Put an ad in the paper? Call a local pet shop?
There is a way to humanely put them down
(someone will post).

Do you know if your tap water is treated with chlorine
or chloramines? You can buy a treatment to get rid
of the stuff. Call your tap water supplier.

We usually suggest 20 to 40 US gallons per fish.
I've had it with math this summer but someone can
figure your pond volume and do the translation.

If you add air stones to your fish out of the pond
that would help.

Plants, plant filters (running water thru bare plant roots
to clean and filter out ammonia) and water movement will all
help especially if you are looking at a small nature
pond. There are solar fountains available in the US
and I'm sure in the UK.

Rule of thumb - lots of water, few fish is a good
combination for a ponder who has little time and
needs a long learning curve. And with a small
child you have a lot on your plate :-))

k :-)

Before you panic and assume you have a leak that must be dealt with, lets
get some more info.

Do you have a pump in the pond that is sending water anywhere?
How much water are you losing? (1", 3" 6"?) a day?
Is your tap water chlorinated (more than likely)?

Do you have a different location you can place the pond? (dig new pond at
pace you can handle, line it, put in water and let water set 'till chlorine
evaporates - a few days unless you add chemicals to neutralize it)? Then
you can move in a few fish that you like the most and find a home for the
others.

Goldfish don't have to be fed much if at all. If the pond is alive with
insects and algae then they are getting food - if they are reproducing and
not eating up all their young then they are getting plenty. My wild guess
would put you at about 300 gallons - assuming your fish get 8" then you
would not want more than 12 but I am guessing. Others will give you a
better numbers. Again - don't panic - most ponders go through traumatic
events and we all survive it and learn from it.

Donna

"jenny23" wrote in message
...

Ok so when i brought my house it came with a pond. and some fish. which
was at first a nice suprise.

but now it is just stressing me out!

the pond is quite small, i'd say 1 meter by 2.5 or something like that
and really not very deep. the water is yucky and it is stuffed with
fish.

i have been vaugly feeding them, fishing out excess weed, trimming
overhanding plabts and topping it up and tho it's a bit yuck as i say
the fish seem happy enough (not that i can really tell a happy fish
from a sad one!)

now it has been really hot i have been topping the pond up a bit, just
with tap water, but now i notice the level is going down rather quickly
and i suspect a leak.

eek.


so i thought i would get a new liner, see if i can pry the old one out
from the concrete it's set in, see if there is any chance i can dig
deeper and also see if i can get the water cleaner.

i have a couple of plastic crates i can bung the fish in while i do
this (while looking after a small bab, this is gonna be such i fun
weekend!) i assume if i don't take too long and keep them in shade this
will be okay.

but i think i may have way too many fish for such a small pond and
really don't know what to do, there seem to be an awful lot of small
babies.

so really i need any advice anyone can give about fixing the leak,
changing the water (can i just use tap water?) fishing them out
(specific nets?) filters or things that i could add to make the fish
happier (cheap and simple to mantain) and whether fish will keep on
breeding when they have no space to do so and if there is any way to
stop them...

i love the little pond, love watching the frog spawn, dragonflys and
fishies but my god it is stressing me out. i keep having nightmares
about all the fish flopping about gasping for air




--
jenny23

the garden, such as it is, is three levels of concrete with a brick build pond in the middle so nowhere to build a new one. the pond has no filters or pumps or anything and unless the neighbourhood cats are drinking all the pond water evaporation alone would not account for the speed of the level going down.

i've been trying to rehome fish but no takers so far, was considering taking some down the local duck pond but have a feeling that would not be a very good idea and probably would get me told off

if then i do manage to thin out the fish a bit will they not just keep breeding madly and get over crowded again?

i think once i do change the linner i will be able to give them a bit more space cause the bottom seems to be very full of mud and a big water lilly takes up a lot of room. i assume the fish do need the shade plants provide tho so i will put the lilly back after trimming it. or is there a better plant i can find for a small pond?

if the liner arrives i shall try to start operation pond clean up this weekend so any other advice would be welcome. like if i treat the chlorinated tap water with some kind of chemical can the fish go straight into it? or should i save some of the old muddy water?

I have done this type of change by moving the water into large (like 50
gallon size) trash cans. If I understand you, your pond is about 3+feet by
8+feet. You should try to find out how deep. If you can get two large
trash cans, then you can use these to put your plants, fish in plus enough
water that has the good things (micro-organisms). If you skim the water off
the top, it should not be all that muddy - skim off as much as you can that
is decent. If you don't have sufficient water to fill the cans put the fish
in the container with the old pond water and plants in the one with fresh
water. If you have raccoons don't risk using a kiddie pool but otherwise
you could also use a cheap kiddie pool (do you have raccoons in the UK?).
Your baby is not mobile yet I assume - if not don't do a kiddie pool.

Feed your plant while you have it out (you can buy pellets that go into the
pot or wrap up some plant fertilizer in paper and stick well into the pot -
dig a hole with a knife if need be and fill it back in). It is a good thing
if the water lily covers most of the surface. If it is not doing well
though because it is too large of a plant for a small pond then you might
want to replace it with a smaller variety. Before you replace the liner -
if you can scavenge some carpet or carper pad it would be good to put this
under the new liner. If the local duck pond is not a natural pond and does
not have outlets into natural areas then there is no reason you should not
be able to put your excess fish there. Is there anyone you can check with?
And yes the fish will multiply again. This means that they have a good
environment. Be happy. If you don't feed them they will eat their young
and you will not have over population. How many fish are there do you
think?

This is a completely doable job. If you find you really enjoy the pond you
might want to add a second raised one to act as a veggie filter or you might
want to add a pump with sprinkler.

Here is a nice site with lots of info.

http://www.worldofwater.com/pond_style.htm

Please keep us up to date! Donna


"jenny23" wrote in message
...

the garden, such as it is, is three levels of concrete with a brick
build pond in the middle so nowhere to build a new one. the pond has no
filters or pumps or anything and unless the neighbourhood cats are
drinking all the pond water evaporation alone would not account for the
speed of the level going down.

i've been trying to rehome fish but no takers so far, was considering
taking some down the local duck pond but have a feeling that would not
be a very good idea and probably would get me told off

if then i do manage to thin out the fish a bit will they not just keep
breeding madly and get over crowded again?

i think once i do change the linner i will be able to give them a bit
more space cause the bottom seems to be very full of mud and a big
water lilly takes up a lot of room. i assume the fish do need the shade
plants provide tho so i will put the lilly back after trimming it. or is
there a better plant i can find for a small pond?

if the liner arrives i shall try to start operation pond clean up this
weekend so any other advice would be welcome. like if i treat the
chlorinated tap water with some kind of chemical can the fish go
straight into it? or should i save some of the old muddy water?




--
jenny23

Forgot to note - putting in the correct amount of dechlorinator will keep
your fish from having their gills burned/damaged but it will not have the
good micro-organisms in it that neutralize the waste products from the fish.
The plants take care of some of that but you really want as much of your old
water as you can salvage. Donna


"jenny23" wrote in message
...

the garden, such as it is, is three levels of concrete with a brick
build pond in the middle so nowhere to build a new one. the pond has no
filters or pumps or anything and unless the neighbourhood cats are
drinking all the pond water evaporation alone would not account for the
speed of the level going down.

i've been trying to rehome fish but no takers so far, was considering
taking some down the local duck pond but have a feeling that would not
be a very good idea and probably would get me told off

if then i do manage to thin out the fish a bit will they not just keep
breeding madly and get over crowded again?

i think once i do change the linner i will be able to give them a bit
more space cause the bottom seems to be very full of mud and a big
water lilly takes up a lot of room. i assume the fish do need the shade
plants provide tho so i will put the lilly back after trimming it. or is
there a better plant i can find for a small pond?

if the liner arrives i shall try to start operation pond clean up this
weekend so any other advice would be welcome. like if i treat the
chlorinated tap water with some kind of chemical can the fish go
straight into it? or should i save some of the old muddy water?




--
jenny23

Hi Jenny,

Good luck with the change. Your pond should do reasonably well once
it has been changed and cleaned. You might pursue some filtration and
a veggie filter. They would ease the care a lot.

Jim

excellent ideas there. i think i will ask the council about putting fish in the pond, tho i spotted a big heron there yesterday so they might not last long!

no racoons here but there are gangs of very friendly cats and big seagulls both of which would probably leap into a paddling pool

feeling a bit better about the pond now, if i can fix it up and rehome some fishies (i think there are around 30 odd but they move fast so having trouble counting) then it'll all be fine.

thanks for all the great help.

jenny23 wrote:

snippy
i've been trying to rehome fish but no takers so far, was considering
taking some down the local duck pond but have a feeling that would not
be a very good idea and probably would get me told off
snippy

Told off? Presecuted more like. It's illegal to introduce non native species
to waterways.
Good luck, whatever you do
--
Pete C
London UK

It is important to distinguish between a 'waterway' or any body of water
that leads into a natural habitat and an artificial pond that has no natural
input or output. If it is the local artificial suburban pond, then if
permission is granted, there should be no issue.

Introducing any non-native species into the wild is bad yet we all abet in
it one way or another. If you purchase any foreign product you are playing
a part of importing foreign species. Mollusk come in on ships (not to
mention all sorts of bugs), anything can come in on a plane, and all those
wonderful plants from other parts of the world that we put in our gardens
are carrying viruses, bugs, weeds, etc. That fruit you are buying in the
winter just may bring in a bug or virus that can wipe out a native plant.

Do you live in the suburbs rather than the city (I do)? The worse harm to
our environment is spreading suburbia. In the U.S. land the size of a small
city is lost every day. That is one less habitat for wild things. Until
human population growth has stopped just about anything we do for the
environment is simply patting yourself on the back to make yourself feel
good. For well over 40 years I have done my best to conserve oil/gas,
support wildlife, etc. then the SUV came into existence and wiped out all my
work in one year. Still, if only on a matter of principal I think doing
what you can to take care of Mother Earth is important.

Donna


"Pete C" wrote in message
...
jenny23 wrote:

snippy
i've been trying to rehome fish but no takers so far, was considering
taking some down the local duck pond but have a feeling that would not
be a very good idea and probably would get me told off
snippy

Told off? Presecuted more like. It's illegal to introduce non native
species to waterways.
Good luck, whatever you do
--
Pete C
London UK

D Kat wrote:
It is important to distinguish between a 'waterway' or any body of
water that leads into a natural habitat and an artificial pond that
has no natural input or output. If it is the local artificial
suburban pond, then if permission is granted, there should be no
issue. snippy

You simply wouldn't get permission......simple as that. The law here is very
strict on that account.

"It is an offence under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 to release, or
allow to escape, any non-native animal to the wild in Great Britain except
under licence. The same offences apply in respect of certain non-indigenous
species, which have established resident populations in Britain and which
are listed in Schedule 9 of the Act."

The Signal Crayfish has decimated many rivers here, to the extent that
native varieties are in danger of disappearing. They have also badly damaged
the habitat of other river inhabitants.
--
Pete C
London UK

You seem to be missing the point - Is this a natural pond or is this a
suburban artificial pond. I assume you have such things there. I have
stated repeatedly that you would not want to put anything (mineral,
vegetable, animal) in any water that has either an outlet or an inlet to a
natural area (and that is recursive - so not to anything that anywhere down
the way has and outlet or inlet in to a natural area).

Donna

"Pete C" wrote in message
...
D Kat wrote:
It is important to distinguish between a 'waterway' or any body of
water that leads into a natural habitat and an artificial pond that
has no natural input or output. If it is the local artificial
suburban pond, then if permission is granted, there should be no
issue. snippy

You simply wouldn't get permission......simple as that. The law here is
very strict on that account.

"It is an offence under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 to release,
or allow to escape, any non-native animal to the wild in Great Britain
except under licence. The same offences apply in respect of certain
non-indigenous species, which have established resident populations in
Britain and which are listed in Schedule 9 of the Act."

The Signal Crayfish has decimated many rivers here, to the extent that
native varieties are in danger of disappearing. They have also badly
damaged the habitat of other river inhabitants.
--
Pete C
London UK

It is important to remember that critters have a way
of getting out of even a 'closed' system. It doesn't have
to connect to a waterway. Fish eggs are sticky and leave
attached to duck feet and fur and paws. I've heard of kingfishers
flying off with their prize and dropping it, still alive, with many
anguished
kingfisher cries, into another watery environment. Some seeds
will actually do better going thru someone's digestive track
and lots of parasites and vermin go from host to host, land to
air to water, to get around.
My favorite is this parasite that causes an ant to climb to the
tippy top of the grass to be eaten by a passing cow.

Best to err on the side of caution even without the village
council breathing down your neck.

k :-)

"kathy" wrote in message
...
It is important to remember that critters have a way
of getting out of even a 'closed' system. It doesn't have
to connect to a waterway. Fish eggs are sticky and leave
attached to duck feet and fur and paws. I've heard of kingfishers
flying off with their prize and dropping it, still alive, with many
anguished
kingfisher cries, into another watery environment. Some seeds
will actually do better going thru someone's digestive track
and lots of parasites and vermin go from host to host, land to
air to water, to get around.
My favorite is this parasite that causes an ant to climb to the
tippy top of the grass to be eaten by a passing cow.

Best to err on the side of caution even without the village
council breathing down your neck.

k :-)

Then this would suggest that none of us be allowed to have our own personal
ponds. The fact of the matter is that goldfish would not stand much of a
chance in the wild. They certainly would not last long in any water with
predatory fish which any natural body of water has. I would not release
them in the wild in any case (both because what would be the point and as
you point out there is the issue of what they themselves might be carrying).
Plants are a real serious problem. Water hyacinths are not allowed in
certain states in the U.S.

I guess the question comes down to what is the difference between a backyard
artificial pond and a neighborhood artificial pond.

Grass carp and walking catfish have been examples of foreign animals
wreaking havoc on North American ecosystems.

Jim