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#1
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Pond Liner
Yesterday we were talking to a guy who builds ponds and he said that a vinyl liner will crack in several years and a rubber liner is the way to go. We were talking to him about how to redo our pond. Is vinyl, which we have not going to hold up for many years? Sheila |
#2
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Pond Liner
Sheila wrote:
Yesterday we were talking to a guy who builds ponds and he said that a vinyl liner will crack in several years and a rubber liner is the way to go. We were talking to him about how to redo our pond. Is vinyl, which we have not going to hold up for many years? Sheila Vinyl will last 4/5 years if your lucky. Depends very much on how much exposed material is in the sun. Butyl is the way to go, usually guranteed for at least 20 years. -- Pete C London UK |
#3
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Pond Liner
Pete C wrote:
Sheila wrote: Yesterday we were talking to a guy who builds ponds and he said that a vinyl liner will crack in several years and a rubber liner is the way to go. We were talking to him about how to redo our pond. Is vinyl, which we have not going to hold up for many years? Sheila Vinyl will last 4/5 years if your lucky. Depends very much on how much exposed material is in the sun. Butyl is the way to go, usually guranteed for at least 20 years. Is Buytl a time of rubber? I've not heard of it before. Sheila |
#4
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Pond Liner
On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:50:18 EDT, Sheila wrote:
Yesterday we were talking to a guy who builds ponds and he said that a vinyl liner will crack in several years and a rubber liner is the way to go. We were talking to him about how to redo our pond. Is vinyl, which we have not going to hold up for many years? Sheila Vinyl tends to crack over time. Where EPDM (rubber) has more flex. Usually they give the life span guarantee of EPDM as 20 years, but if not moved and always covered with water I bet it last a lot longer. Anyone have an EPDM pond going longer than 20 years? If so, how long? Mine are 13. ~ jan ------------ Zone 7a, SE Washington State Ponds: www.jjspond.us |
#5
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Pond Liner
Sheila wrote:
Pete C wrote: Sheila wrote: Yesterday we were talking to a guy who builds ponds and he said that a vinyl liner will crack in several years and a rubber liner is the way to go. We were talking to him about how to redo our pond. Is vinyl, which we have not going to hold up for many years? Sheila Vinyl will last 4/5 years if your lucky. Depends very much on how much exposed material is in the sun. Butyl is the way to go, usually guranteed for at least 20 years. Is Buytl a time of rubber? I've not heard of it before. Sheila "Polyisobutylene" is synthetic rubber. -- Pete C London UK |
#6
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Pond Liner
~ jan wrote:
Vinyl tends to crack over time. Where EPDM (rubber) has more flex. Usually they give the life span guarantee of EPDM as 20 years, but if not moved and always covered with water I bet it last a lot longer. Anyone have an EPDM pond going longer than 20 years? If so, how long? Mine are 13. ~ jan Does anybody have a good (read: cheap) source for LARGE 30'x60' EPDM. I have heard the cheaper roofing EPDM is the same as the pond EPDM, but I have also heard that it isn't. Anybody know the TRUTH? Chip |
#7
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Pond Liner
Pete C wrote:
Sheila wrote: Pete C wrote: Sheila wrote: Yesterday we were talking to a guy who builds ponds and he said that a vinyl liner will crack in several years and a rubber liner is the way to go. We were talking to him about how to redo our pond. Is vinyl, which we have not going to hold up for many years? Sheila Vinyl will last 4/5 years if your lucky. Depends very much on how much exposed material is in the sun. Butyl is the way to go, usually guranteed for at least 20 years. Is Buytl a time of rubber? I've not heard of it before. Sheila "Polyisobutylene" is synthetic rubber. Thanks |
#8
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Pond Liner
~ jan wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:50:18 EDT, Sheila wrote: Yesterday we were talking to a guy who builds ponds and he said that a vinyl liner will crack in several years and a rubber liner is the way to go. We were talking to him about how to redo our pond. Is vinyl, which we have not going to hold up for many years? Sheila Vinyl tends to crack over time. Where EPDM (rubber) has more flex. Usually they give the life span guarantee of EPDM as 20 years, but if not moved and always covered with water I bet it last a lot longer. Anyone have an EPDM pond going longer than 20 years? If so, how long? Mine are 13. ~ jan ------------ Zone 7a, SE Washington State Ponds: www.jjspond.us Thanks Jan |
#9
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Pond Liner
I
have heard the cheaper roofing EPDM is the same as the pond EPDM, but I have also heard that it isn't. Anybody know the TRUTH? Chip Firestone makes most, if not all EPDM. Some roofing films have a fire retardant, but couldn't not find anything else. MSDS does not list a fungicide content. I hear it's all the same, save the FR. But.... Contact Firestone and ask. |
#10
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Pond Liner
On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:50:18 EDT, Sheila
wrote: Yesterday we were talking to a guy who builds ponds and he said that a vinyl liner will crack in several years and a rubber liner is the way to go. We were talking to him about how to redo our pond. Is vinyl, which we have not going to hold up for many years? When a Georgia contractor says rubber liner, he probably means EPDM, which some still call rubber, hard rubber or roofing sheet rubber. Butyl isn't readily available here in sheets, although you may find some in tapes and sealers for repairs. In fact you will be lucky if you can find a roofing supply house that still handles sheet EPDM. I'm in Warner Robins and my first EPDM liner, (An EPDM roofing sheet.) came from Warner Robins Supply, a local building supply and my last one from he http://www.justliners.com/epdm.htm No, the liner didn't go bad, the lawn timbers rotted. I changed the pond from a wooden frame above ground to a retaining wall stone frame above ground. -- Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8 http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb |
#11
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Pond Liner
Sheila wrote:
Pete C wrote: Sheila wrote: Yesterday we were talking to a guy who builds ponds and he said that a vinyl liner will crack in several years and a rubber liner is the way to go. We were talking to him about how to redo our pond. Is vinyl, which we have not going to hold up for many years? Sheila Vinyl will last 4/5 years if your lucky. Depends very much on how much exposed material is in the sun. Butyl is the way to go, usually guranteed for at least 20 years. Is Buytl a time of rubber? I've not heard of it before. Yes. It's extremely heavy, and really not the choice of _anybody_ who's built a large pond before. EPDM (ethyl poly blah blah blah :-) ) is much lighter, and often has the same guarantee. There are even lighter woven HDPE (high density polyethylene) plastics - they're certainly the choice for _very_ large ponds, because they're much lighter and cheaper than EPDM, but they can sometimes be awkward, as they're stiffer than EPDM. -- derek |
#12
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Pond Liner
I haven't purchased EPDM since 2001. Has this gone up in price since I assume it is a petroleum product? What is the latest on prices? ~ jan ------------ Zone 7a, SE Washington State Ponds: www.jjspond.us |
#13
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Pond Liner
Derek Broughton wrote:
Sheila wrote: Pete C wrote: Sheila wrote: Yesterday we were talking to a guy who builds ponds and he said that a vinyl liner will crack in several years and a rubber liner is the way to go. We were talking to him about how to redo our pond. Is vinyl, which we have not going to hold up for many years? Sheila Vinyl will last 4/5 years if your lucky. Depends very much on how much exposed material is in the sun. Butyl is the way to go, usually guranteed for at least 20 years. Is Buytl a time of rubber? I've not heard of it before. Yes. It's extremely heavy, and really not the choice of _anybody_ who's built a large pond before. EPDM (ethyl poly blah blah blah :-) ) is much lighter, and often has the same guarantee. There are even lighter woven HDPE (high density polyethylene) plastics - they're certainly the choice for _very_ large ponds, because they're much lighter and cheaper than EPDM, but they can sometimes be awkward, as they're stiffer than EPDM. Heavy?? I don't know what you're thinking of Derek, but my liner is only 0.75mm thick.......no weight at all. -- Pete C London UK |
#14
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Pond Liner
Pete C wrote:
Derek Broughton wrote: Sheila wrote: Pete C wrote: Sheila wrote: Yesterday we were talking to a guy who builds ponds and he said that a vinyl liner will crack in several years and a rubber liner is the way to go. We were talking to him about how to redo our pond. Is vinyl, which we have not going to hold up for many years? Sheila Vinyl will last 4/5 years if your lucky. Depends very much on how much exposed material is in the sun. Butyl is the way to go, usually guranteed for at least 20 years. Is Buytl a time of rubber? I've not heard of it before. Yes. It's extremely heavy, and really not the choice of _anybody_ who's built a large pond before. EPDM (ethyl poly blah blah blah :-) ) is much lighter, and often has the same guarantee. There are even lighter woven HDPE (high density polyethylene) plastics - they're certainly the choice for _very_ large ponds, because they're much lighter and cheaper than EPDM, but they can sometimes be awkward, as they're stiffer than EPDM. Heavy?? I don't know what you're thinking of Derek, but my liner is only 0.75mm thick.......no weight at all. Millimeters? Not "mils"? Liners in N. America are generally measured in mils, and a 75 mil liner is thick. If it's really .75 mm, that's 30 mils, and I'd say too thin for an EPDM or vinyl liner, but not HDPE and _perhaps_ not Butyl. Either way, butyl is a lot heavier than any of the alternatives at the same thickness. If it isn't heavier, it isn't butyl. -- derek |
#15
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Pond Liner
Derek Broughton wrote:
Sheila wrote: Pete C wrote: Sheila wrote: Yesterday we were talking to a guy who builds ponds and he said that a vinyl liner will crack in several years and a rubber liner is the way to go. We were talking to him about how to redo our pond. Is vinyl, which we have not going to hold up for many years? Sheila Vinyl will last 4/5 years if your lucky. Depends very much on how much exposed material is in the sun. Butyl is the way to go, usually guranteed for at least 20 years. Is Buytl a time of rubber? I've not heard of it before. Yes. It's extremely heavy, and really not the choice of _anybody_ who's built a large pond before. EPDM (ethyl poly blah blah blah :-) ) is much lighter, and often has the same guarantee. There are even lighter woven HDPE (high density polyethylene) plastics - they're certainly the choice for _very_ large ponds, because they're much lighter and cheaper than EPDM, but they can sometimes be awkward, as they're stiffer than EPDM. Thanks for explaining that. |
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