I've been told that frogs will burrow in the muck at the bottom of a
pond for the winter. Is this true? If so, for a pond with a liner
which eliminates much of the muck, is there a way to provide an
alternative for frogs living in the pond? I fished out several frogs
this last spring which apparently had no place to burrow for the
winter and so they didn't make it. Thanks.

I don't have the answer but I am thinking of putting a cat litter box filled
with kitty litter clay in the bottom of the pond. I'm not sure what to put
on the top to keep the clay from muddying up the water.

Donna

"DaddyOooh" wrote in message
...
I've been told that frogs will burrow in the muck at the bottom of a
pond for the winter. Is this true? If so, for a pond with a liner
which eliminates much of the muck, is there a way to provide an
alternative for frogs living in the pond? I fished out several frogs
this last spring which apparently had no place to burrow for the
winter and so they didn't make it. Thanks.

If you use kitty litter get the ultra plain stuff, no
odor treated or pretty smelling.

I guess you also might be able to use untreated soil from
your garden, wet it down good with pond water and slooowly
lower it into the pond. I'm all about trying to stick as close
to Mother Nature's way of doing things as possible.

My frogs do fine in our lined pond. The amount of muck down
there depends on the year and how ambitious we are in the
spring when we clean, if we clean at all that year.

When I have lost frogs it has been because of a power outage
and massive snow which ices over the pond for an extended
period of time. I use an air pump to keep a hole open in the
ice.

k :-)

"kathy" wrote in message
...
If you use kitty litter get the ultra plain stuff, no
odor treated or pretty smelling.

I guess you also might be able to use untreated soil from
your garden, wet it down good with pond water and slooowly
lower it into the pond. I'm all about trying to stick as close
to Mother Nature's way of doing things as possible.

My frogs do fine in our lined pond. The amount of muck down
there depends on the year and how ambitious we are in the
spring when we clean, if we clean at all that year.

When I have lost frogs it has been because of a power outage
and massive snow which ices over the pond for an extended
period of time. I use an air pump to keep a hole open in the
ice.

k :-)

I stopped getting tadpoles because my frogs died over the winter - I leave
the muck on the bottom because there are worms in it plus I used to leave me
lilies potless but it did not seem to be enough protection. Also I have
always had a pond hole either from an airstone or from a heater so it wasn't
that. I have pottery clay leftovers but it strikes me as too heavy. I was
hoping the kitty litter (no odor control) would be lighter for them. Maybe
a mix of sand and clay or just sand? Getting soil out of my yard is almost
impossible. The damn plants just don't want to share. I have not a clue
what I'm doing and I really don't want to find dead frogs next spring (so
why did I get tadpoles this year... they were there, end of season, no one
was giving them a home, I could not resist..)

Donna

The question that comes to mind is do they *really* bury themselves
in mud in nature?
I found an article where scientists actually dove into water in the
winter and found the frogs on top of the bottom surface. They
were in depressions in the bottom substrate.

I've had frogs show up in years we cleaned the pond in the
spring and years we haven't. Limited amt. of muck vs. more muck.
I always wondered if they hung out in the 'condos' in the builder's
brick that holds up the island.

I do know they need a limited amount of oxygen in the winter
which they manage to get thru their skins.
I think there are many factors in amphibian deaths over the winter.

If I had unlimited funds.... I'd set up an elaborate camera system and
lighting system underwater and *watch* them over the winter.....

k :-)

On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 20:02:49 EDT, kathy wrote:

The question that comes to mind is do they *really* bury themselves
in mud in nature?

Well, if my memory serves me [and the remote memory is still pretty
goodg] about 45 yrs ago I tipped a rock over and found a frog
frozen into a hollow under the rock.
.. . . .

I had to Google it. This page;
http://www.vanaqua.org/education/aquafacts/frogs.html
says "Hibernating frogs frequently burrow in the soil, which could be
at the bottom of a pond, under a log, or in a garden. "

A thought comes to mind. Frogs breathe air. How do they go to the
bottom of a pond for months and live? And if they breathe through
their skin- then why do they leave just their nostrils out of the
water when they hide?

Jim

I have a few turtles in my pond. Should bring them indoors for the
winter or will they survive? I have red ear sliders turtles

On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 19:15:59 EDT, "D Kat" wrote:

I stopped getting tadpoles because my frogs died over the winter - I leave
the muck on the bottom because there are worms in it plus I used to leave me
lilies potless but it did not seem to be enough protection. Also I have
always had a pond hole either from an airstone or from a heater so it wasn't
that. I have pottery clay leftovers but it strikes me as too heavy. I was
hoping the kitty litter (no odor control) would be lighter for them. Maybe
a mix of sand and clay or just sand? Getting soil out of my yard is almost
impossible. The damn plants just don't want to share. I have not a clue
what I'm doing and I really don't want to find dead frogs next spring (so
why did I get tadpoles this year... they were there, end of season, no one
was giving them a home, I could not resist..)
Donna

My guess, since you're buying them, they may not be suitable for your
climate, thus they died. Or... end of season, perhaps they don't have time
enough to mature and prepare for winter. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

Hi
We have a very large natural pont in our garden approx 50 feet by 30 feet, which is a natural pond with a clay bottom - no liner Despite this we find the frogs will hide in the foliage around the pond and under rocks and stones and not the bottom of the pond, We have also a design for a frog and toad house the details of which I will shortly be putting on our blog in the garden wild life section.

you will find this at http://www.carreglefn-nurseries.co.uk/blog or via the link at http:www.carreglefn-nurseries.co.uk

If you e mail via the link I will let you have the plans anyway, but cat litter is not the answer.

kathryn
http://www.carreglefn-nurseries.co.uk

"DaddyOooh" wrote in message
...
I've been told that frogs will burrow in the muck at the bottom of a
pond for the winter. Is this true? If so, for a pond with a liner
which eliminates much of the muck, is there a way to provide an
alternative for frogs living in the pond? I fished out several frogs
this last spring which apparently had no place to burrow for the
winter and so they didn't make it. Thanks.

=======================There is usually enough fluffy mulm on the bottom of my ponds in the wint
er
and some frogs still don't make it. Yet we have never netted out a dead n
ewt
or slider. They all make it.
--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö