What are you raising there, CATfish???.................You had to know that
was coming!

Paul

"Reel Mckoi" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ups.com...
How often are you guys feeding your fish? I do so once in the morning
and again once in the evening. About 3 handfuls per feeding.
Financially speaking, I wouldn't mind toning it down some ;-)

## Don't buy the overpriced koi/GF foods. I buy catfish food for $11 per
50 lb bag at a farm store, Tractor Supply Company. This year I bought 20
lbs of trout chow to add and give them some variety. I also mix in a
small amount of kitten chow with the fish food and feed them twice a day.
I have loads of fish in 2 ponds and an assortment of pools and a 500
gallon tank of young koi. It costs us no more than $20 to $30 a year in
fish food. I also toss in worms and grubs I find in the garden and
compost pile.

Though I do enjoy the respite in the morning watching them eat.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

"Paul in Redland" wrote in message
...
What are you raising there, CATfish???.................You had to know
that was coming!

Paul
================
With the whiskers on some butterfly koi they may as well be CATfish. :-))
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o


"Reel Mckoi" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ups.com...
How often are you guys feeding your fish? I do so once in the morning
and again once in the evening. About 3 handfuls per feeding.
Financially speaking, I wouldn't mind toning it down some ;-)

## Don't buy the overpriced koi/GF foods. I buy catfish food for $11 per
50 lb bag at a farm store, Tractor Supply Company. This year I bought 20
lbs of trout chow to add and give them some variety. I also mix in a
small amount of kitten chow with the fish food and feed them twice a day.
I have loads of fish in 2 ponds and an assortment of pools and a 500
gallon tank of young koi. It costs us no more than $20 to $30 a year in
fish food. I also toss in worms and grubs I find in the garden and
compost pile.

Though I do enjoy the respite in the morning watching them eat.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

filtration.

It really has to do with the string algae. But with the comments, I'm
thinking it's not the filtration that's the problem for controlling
this. I had assumed incorrectly the water was green as a result of
strings attached to the surfaces of the pond and thus seeing green
through the water, but a recent check this morning in a glass cup, the
water is crystal clear-- though admittedly during the sunny days, there
is a lot of particles floating around (today is cloudy and a bit of
rain).

So if I am to understand correctly, the mechanical filtration is to
keep the water in check (0 nitrates/nitrite and 0 ammonia/green water
through uv). plants for controlling algae nutrients and fluxes with ph
due to oxygen exchange/activity. does that sound correct?

On 27 Aug 2005 04:45:16 -0700, wrote:

So if I am to understand correctly, the mechanical filtration is to
keep the water in check (0 nitrates/nitrite and 0 ammonia/green water
through uv). plants for controlling algae nutrients and fluxes with ph
due to oxygen exchange/activity. does that sound correct?

Close :-)
The mechanical filtration is to remove solids. Your vortex is the first
stage of this followed by the bead filter. The bead filter has a large
surface area for bacteria to grow and this bacteria will convert the
ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrate.

The idea is that the plants then take up the nitrates in their growth
but higher plants need potash to enable them to do this and potash is
the one thing that isn't usually present in any amounts in pond water
and it gets consumed by the plants so it's the one chemical that you
really do need to add.

All the UV does is cause the green water algae to stick together and it
can then be filtered out. For a UV to actually sterilise pond water and
kill most of the bacteria you need a ridiculous amount of UV, something
like 1 watt per 5(?) gallons of water. Marine aquariums use UV at this
intensity for sterilisation but it's not practical with a pond and a
pond is open to the environment so it would be almost impossible to
keep the water sterile. I'm not a fan of UV's for a pond because the
green water algae can be a useful indicator that things aren't in
balance.

I think you need to put some potash in your pond and stabilise the PH.
If you look back through some threads I think Jan has explained how to
do this using bicarb and that will stabilise thinks quickly. Long term
you may be able to come up with a way to divert some of your water
through broken seashell or crushed coral. This is slower to act than
bicarb but will automatically buffer your PH for you since it will only
dissolve when the ph is low and as it dissolves it raises the KH and
thus raises the ph, it should then stabilise at about 8.2.

I'm surprised that you have a lot of particles floating around though
with a bead filter. They filter down to around 15 microns one they have
got running so you shouldn't have anything visible if the water flow is
correct. You should be pushing at the very minimum 1500 gallons an hour
through the filters and the outlet and inlets should be positioned so
that you have a flow across the pond from the return to the outlet so
that all of the water is cycled through the filter. If you get it
correct then with visible particles I would expect the flow through the
filter to fall in a few hours so you should have to backflush it every
day for a while at least and the fact that you have only had to do this
a couple of times in six weeks and can see particles makes me think
something is not quite right.


Have you any pics of your setup, especially with regard to the
filtration?

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk

I have the Challenger 50 system as pictured he
http://www.macarthurwatergardens.com...te_Systems.htm

On 26 Aug 2005 03:13:25 -0700, rottyguy70 wrote:

I am a bit concerned if the filtration system is doing it's job given
the quality of the water. I went with this system after a bit of
research and have been disappointed with the results so far.

Sounds to me, for the age, number of gallons & number of fish your pond is
performing just as I would expect it to, imo. Like RTB asked, I too would
like to know what your KH and pH numbers are. ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

On 27 Aug 2005 11:46:38 -0700, wrote:

I have the Challenger 50 system as pictured he
http://www.macarthurwatergardens.com...te_Systems.htm

I'd found the fluidart filters but didn't know if you had the
challenger or not but I did read the manual :-)

I can't see anything obvious that could be wrong but it should filter
out the particles. I've only got a small home made bead filter but it
even clogs if I put Nishi-Clay in the pond and that is too fine to see
individual particles.

I can't suggest why but it sounds as if the water isn't going through
the beads for some reason but that sounds a bit far-fetched. Does the
flow ever get restricted at all. You said it seemed pretty clean when
you backflushed it but when the flow is restricted and I backflush mine
it always comes out as dark brown sludge at first, unless I've used
some Nishi-Clay and then it's very milky :-)

I've only got half a cubic foot of beads and a six hundred gallon pond
with small goldfish and you should have a lot more sludge. This pond
had been established for fifteen years when the bead filter was added
and I was cleaning it every day for three weeks at first and three
times a day for the first couple of days so I do know how effective
these filters are.

Was there any dirty water at all from either the turbo vortex or the
bead filter?

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk

the backflush produces a bit of green water and then eventually runs
clear. i added some potash (0-0-60) today so will wait to see how
things fair next week. lost another small fish last night. hard to
say if it's the water or a predisposed fish (one of 10 i bought last
week). the others seem fine. don't think i'll mess with the ph as
i've been having to add well water a few times a week. as i've read,
the flux is more detrimental.

On 28 Aug 2005 10:30:45 -0700, wrote:

the backflush produces a bit of green water and then eventually runs
clear. i added some potash (0-0-60) today so will wait to see how
things fair next week. lost another small fish last night. hard to
say if it's the water or a predisposed fish (one of 10 i bought last
week). the others seem fine. don't think i'll mess with the ph as
i've been having to add well water a few times a week. as i've read,
the flux is more detrimental.

Ten fish added at once is too much. You should only add a couple a
month because the bacteria in the filter need to increase to cope with
the extra fish load.

You already have the ph swinging between night and morning and all
increasing the KH will do is buffer the ph and stop it swinging. You
need to get your KH up to around 200, as the instructions for your
filter say, to stop the ph swinging. Putting a cupful of bicarb in
every day until the KH is at 200 will be less harmful then leaving the
ph to swing as it does. Put it in at night when the ph is highest and
it will help prevent the overnight drop.

Once the KH is up towards 200 that will buffer your top ups as well. Do
you know the ph and KH of the well water?

I seem to have a mental block about bicarb and can never remember but I
think it's a cup per 1000 gallons (am I close Jan?) so 1 cup a day may
well take a couple of weeks to get it up. First it will stop the
overnight drop and then it will start to gradually increase the ph.


--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk

Something isn't right. Lost another fish yesterday and one is acting
strange. While most are healthy eaters, one is kinda wondering off and
not participating (like the others before they died)-- acting very
lethargic. Tested the water this morning and total alkalinity was at
120ppm, ph 8.2. Added 1 cup of Baking Soda this morning through the
skimmer. added 4 TBSP of potash on sunday (our pond is 3500/4000 gals
w/about 1/3 plant coverage).

Of the 3 dead fish, I didn't see any fungus on them (though the one i
found in the skimmer had a cloudy eye but I don't know how long he was
in there- 2 days max).

Anything immediate I can do? This is heart wrenching :-(

wrote in message
oups.com...

Of the 3 dead fish, I didn't see any fungus on them (though the one i
found in the skimmer had a cloudy eye but I don't know how long he was
in there- 2 days max).

Anything immediate I can do? This is heart wrenching :-(
==========================
I was just wondering if you quarantined these fish for at least 14 days
before putting them into your pond? I seldom see this mentioned here
anymore. Once in the pond they're difficult to catch and expensive to treat
if not caught and put in a smaller container. Also, you don't know what to
treat the pond for. With all the parasitic problems the pet shops have you
can't simply buy fish and put them straight into your pond. Feeders are the
worst!

We don't use a skimmer but I can see how they'd be death traps for fish and
other small critters like newts and baby turtles.
--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

I did not quarantine but the person i bought them from (who also sells
on ebay and has 100% feedback through 100's of transactions) claims he
does. i suppose this batch could have been bad :-(

if it's a disease, could it have been brought on by the plants?
wouldn't the uv lower/eliminate this risk?

I don't know where you are, but, http://www.akca.org/ if US or
http://www.bkks.co.uk/ if UK should have a list of local clubs and contacts.
Many of the clubs in the US have Koi Health Advisors, and others have health
hotlines. These people could diagnose and recommend treatments. It really
sounds like you have a parasite and it needs to be identified and
eliminated. New fish, new pond, transportation, new filter, etc. are all
stressors. Fish under stress are more susceptible to attack, and subsequent
bacterial infections. Good luck.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

wrote in message
oups.com...
Something isn't right. Lost another fish yesterday and one is acting
strange. While most are healthy eaters, one is kinda wondering off and
not participating (like the others before they died)-- acting very
lethargic. Tested the water this morning and total alkalinity was at
120ppm, ph 8.2. Added 1 cup of Baking Soda this morning through the
skimmer. added 4 TBSP of potash on sunday (our pond is 3500/4000 gals
w/about 1/3 plant coverage).

Of the 3 dead fish, I didn't see any fungus on them (though the one i
found in the skimmer had a cloudy eye but I don't know how long he was
in there- 2 days max).

Anything immediate I can do? This is heart wrenching :-(

wrote in message
oups.com...
I did not quarantine but the person i bought them from (who also sells
on ebay and has 100% feedback through 100's of transactions) claims he
does. i suppose this batch could have been bad :-(

$$ Even if he or she does quarantine, you need to quarantine all new fish
for a minimum of 14 days. Also, don't believe everything they tell you in
stores or on Ebay. After a real nightmare with ulcers that wiped out two of
our ponds about 5 years ago, I now quarantine new fish for 21 days and treat
them even though they appear healthy. I don't care what the person I bought
them from tells me. I use QuickCure, Clout and Dimilin in no particular
order. So far so good. I buy few new fish now since mine have started to
breed.

if it's a disease, could it have been brought on by the plants?

$$ Yes. It could also have come in on a frog or turtle or a ducks feet.
Since we netted our ponds we haven't had any more health problems with our
koi and goldfish.

wouldn't the uv lower/eliminate this risk?

$$ No. I don't believe this light eliminates risk but will kill whatever
tiny parasites get pumped trough it. It will never get all of them. It's
better to KNOW who you're supplier is and then quarantine and treat for a
minimum of 14 days.
--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

I did contact the supplier. He says they've had ulcer issues in some
of the smaller fish due to stress (to note: I've not lost any larger
then 4-5" yet) but fairly certain no KHV-- what can I say... He
recommends I add salt to .05. Seem like a good idea? We have a lot of
solar salt lying around that we use in our water softener system. It
seems some use it here w/o objection. Any idea at what dosage I should
be using for a 3500-4000 gal system?

btw- our pond is concrete with a multicoat system applied. we have a
waterfall that runs down some boulders as well. i'm hoping salt will
not adversely affect this?

Thanks very much everyone. You all have been a tremendous help.