In us tems By Pond is about 800 Gals and 9' X 6' if that helps. But
from what you guys have been saying + what I've read I think I will shy
away from Koi until I know what I'm doing and by the sounds of it got a
bigger pond. I probably have enough space to double the size of the
one I have already. Maybe in a couple of years.

Nice pond, looks really good and close to the house. Ours is at the
opposite end of the garden in a quiet shady spot which is nice but you
cant see/year from the house. Now that I'm getting into it a bit more
I may decide to build a small water feature nearer the house.

Thanks for the advice BTW I'm still in two minds whether to drain or
not. My logic at the moment is this...

1 - The fish seem happy enough

2 - The are Frogs and newts in the Pond

3 - the Water is very clear

4 - the fish have been stressed enough for now

5 - Its hard work :-)

so...may be leave it till next year when I know a bit more about what
I'm doing

But...on the other hand it would be nice to know whats down there in
detail and a good once over at the start may be good in the long run.

I am assumeing that after a few weeks after cleaning it would go dark
and silty at the bottom anyway or am I wrong here?

thanks

Congratulations on getting hooked. Have you posted any pics of your
pond? (Our pondsite below shows ours.)

Your manual cleaning is a good move. The fish and plants will continue
adding muck, and you will come to guage when the pond is so full want to
clean it.

You have a pond full of seasoned water. We would just enjoy it and
learn about the pond's growth cycle this year.

If you could work out a bottom drain for the pond and a good veggie
filter with your water feature, you could avoid most of the cleaning by
having a good sized drain in the bottom of the veggie filter. We would
be glad to comment more on that. Our berm ponds get the muck and they
and the pond are crystal clear (tho' tea colored). We have not changed
out our water in the seven or so years we have had the pond.

Phyllis and I spent a number of years in Cambridge studying. Where do
you live in London?

Jim



hotpepper wrote:
I inherited a pond about 2 years ago in my new house in the south of
England and although it was a nice feature I ignored it until very
recently. Its about 3000 ltrs (650 gals) 2m X 3m X 0.7m and I think
its many years old, I think its made of concrete and has some very
attractive stonework around and in the pond, the sides look like stone
bricks. Someone obviously spent a lot of time on it so I thought I
should do something with it. It's in a very shady spot but does get
some direct sunshine in the middle of the afternoon.

It was not filtered and everything was overgrown, it basically looked
like a swap. I started by clearing all the overgrown vegetation and
have left a decent sized patch of Lilly's in the middle with some
oxygenators and reeds.


Then (I didn't now about pond vacs at this point) dredged the bottom
with my bare hands then a coarse net, then a fine net. So now I have a
thin layer of sludge at the bottom. I then added a good quality
filtration system with a small water fall, UV clarifier, an air ball
and some lighting.

I already had three largish goldfish, I've added 3 Tench, 3 Commits,
3 Goldfish, 3 blue orfe, 3 Sebunkins, all are quit small 3in.

Everything seems fine expect I can't see the Tench but I assume they
are ok. The water was very murky but after a few days it has started to
clear (you can see the rocks at the bottom of the pond) and is no
longer green.

My questions a

1 - Have I done the right thing in terms of setup and cleaning?

2 - I have had mixed advice on this but should I drain and clean the
pond and does this need to be done every year?

3 - Can I keep Koi in this pond?

4 - Is there anything else I should do?

5 - How many fish should I keep in the pond?

5 - Where have the Tench gone?

Sorry for the long story but I didn't want to leave anything out but
needless to say but I am now totally hooked!!!

Thanks in advance for you help.

Thanks for you comments. I was starting to get a bit put off by the
amount of nonsense about the trolling issue. Hope it doesnt spoil the
group.

I started with the manual cleaning as I did'nt really know what I was
doing and was'nt about to go out spending lots of time and money on the
pond. Two weeks later I have done both! The temptation know is to
drain and clean just to see whats down there but my gut feel is to just
leave it alone.

There was a huge amount of stuff down there, about a foot deep, mainly
stuff from a large conifor near the pond. However, it did'nt smell and
was easy to scoop out with hands and then net. I thought it would be
too much work to drain but know I've spent nearly a week doing it by
hand I suspect it would have been better to drain etc.

I think at some point I will drain it when I know more about it, I will
start to keep an eye on the water quality and if it get bad then do
something then. It will allow me to secure the hosing for the pump and
the electric cables for the lights and pump too and arrange the
lighting better.

Not sure what a bottom or a verggie filter is, My filter has a biologia
media section in the base - is this the same thing?

I will post some pitures once I get it sorted, it looks a bit dull and
boaring at the moment :-(

Its a small world, although I live in the south of London I actually
work in Cambridge! It's a lovley City but I dont get to see much of it
as I spend my spare time in London - mostly these days on my pond :-)

BTW - your pond looks fantastic. I would love to have something like
that but alas space does not permit - gardens in London are postage
stamp sized compared to what you get in other parts of the world.

Vak

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 06:34:35 -0500, Phyllis and Jim Hurley
wrote:

We have not changed
out our water in the seven or so years we have had the pond.

Not even 10% water changes? ~ jan

hotpepper see: http://www.vcnet.com/koi_net/finalnet.html#waterchange

Thanks Jan - good website

Forgot to say - got back from work today after being away for a few
days and hence not been messing with the pond. The water is crystal
clear all the way to the bottom. I can see all the fish which has put
me at ease, the Orfe are darting around like mad and the tench are
slowly moving around the bottom - one even came to the top to eat! I
can now see the shape and layout of the pond so probably wont drain and
clean it.

I switch of the pump while cleaning it and for some reason sediment
started to stir up, is this normal? Why does this happen?

"hotpepper" wrote in message
ups.com...
Forgot to say - got back from work today after being away for a few
days and hence not been messing with the pond. The water is crystal
clear all the way to the bottom. I can see all the fish which has put
me at ease, the Orfe are darting around like mad and the tench are
slowly moving around the bottom - one even came to the top to eat! I
can now see the shape and layout of the pond so probably wont drain and
clean it.

I switch of the pump while cleaning it and for some reason sediment
started to stir up, is this normal? Why does this happen?
==================================
When you turn your pump back on it's normal for the water flow to stir up
the sediments - if that's what you were asking.
--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

On 14 Sep 2005 10:36:49 -0700, "hotpepper" wrote:

I switch of the pump while cleaning it and for some reason sediment
started to stir up, is this normal? Why does this happen?

Depends on where the pump is located at. Still water, solids settle, even
in very clear water there will be some. When you start up the pump, the
water moves and puts the solids back into the water column again. Once they
spread out it appears once again to be clear. ;o) ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

Our toilet valve refills as we get evaporation. We drain the barrels
and the berm ponds annually to dump the muck form the pond. That does
actually mean turning over 1000 of 4000 gakllons. That is an annual 25%
change over...staged. We have monitored the water chemistry and it does
not seem affected by the low change rate. My observation is that the
pond does a good bit of topping up, which should be concentrating the
minerals.

Jim

~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 06:34:35 -0500, Phyllis and Jim Hurley
wrote:


We have not changed
out our water in the seven or so years we have had the pond.


Not even 10% water changes? ~ jan

hotpepper see: http://www.vcnet.com/koi_net/finalnet.html#waterchange

Our toilet valve refills as we get evaporation. We drain the barrels
and the berm ponds annually to dump the muck form the pond. That does
actually mean turning over 1000 of 4000 gakllons. That is an annual 25%
change over...staged. We have monitored the water chemistry and it does
not seem affected by the low change rate. My observation is that the
pond does a good bit of topping up, which should be concentrating the
minerals.

Jim

Is this a water garden w/koi?

Your last sentence confuses me, as the reason it is recommended 10%/week is
to keep heavy minerals, pheromones and other pollutants (that most
hobbyists can't test for) diluted and to add necessary minerals, vital for
the fish.

If a koi only pond, they usually need to do them for the nitrate build up
also.... something we rarely have to worry about in a water garden plus
koi. ~ jan

Hi Jan,

Our pond system has 3K gallons in the main pond and 1K gallons in the
berm ponds and barrels. The pond has about 10 koi, full sized, and
about the same number of goldfish. The berm plants do a great job of
handling the muck...growth like crazy and clear water. We have not done
any regular water changes. The toilet valve does replace the
evaporation on a regular basis...MS is very hot. The koi don't seem to
have suffetred any particular problems from the lack of changes. They
have grown like weeds and are 20 to 28". The ratio of koi per gallon is
pretty good. That may help.

Jim

~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:
Our toilet valve refills as we get evaporation. We drain the barrels
and the berm ponds annually to dump the muck form the pond. That does
actually mean turning over 1000 of 4000 gakllons. That is an annual 25%
change over...staged. We have monitored the water chemistry and it does
not seem affected by the low change rate. My observation is that the
pond does a good bit of topping up, which should be concentrating the
minerals.

Jim


Is this a water garden w/koi?

Your last sentence confuses me, as the reason it is recommended 10%/week is
to keep heavy minerals, pheromones and other pollutants (that most
hobbyists can't test for) diluted and to add necessary minerals, vital for
the fish.

If a koi only pond, they usually need to do them for the nitrate build up
also.... something we rarely have to worry about in a water garden plus
koi. ~ jan

Our pond system has 3K gallons in the main pond and 1K gallons in the
berm ponds and barrels. The pond has about 10 koi, full sized, and
about the same number of goldfish. The berm plants do a great job of
handling the muck...growth like crazy and clear water. We have not done
any regular water changes. The toilet valve does replace the
evaporation on a regular basis...MS is very hot. The koi don't seem to
have suffetred any particular problems from the lack of changes. They
have grown like weeds and are 20 to 28". The ratio of koi per gallon is
pretty good. That may help. Jim

Now bear with me, I'm not trying to be a "I know better than thou" here. It
is just I'm trying to prevent my mistakes passing on to another. I, too,
wasn't real good about doing my water changes as the experts suggest. It
finally bit me in the butt, and that is my concern/worry for you. Some of
those experts would consider your situation on the high end of the stocking
rate. Fish are bigger, pond stays the same, all the more reason to follow
their advice.... or, since I'm suggesting it "go not where I have been".
;o) ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

hotpepper wrote:
I inherited a pond about 2 years ago in my new house in the south of
England and although it was a nice feature I ignored it until very
recently. Its about 3000 ltrs (650 gals) 2m X 3m X 0.7m and I think
its many years old, I think its made of concrete and has some very
attractive stonework around and in the pond, the sides look like stone
bricks. Someone obviously spent a lot of time on it so I thought I
should do something with it. It's in a very shady spot but does get
some direct sunshine in the middle of the afternoon.

It was not filtered and everything was overgrown, it basically looked
like a swap. I started by clearing all the overgrown vegetation and
have left a decent sized patch of Lilly's in the middle with some
oxygenators and reeds.


Then (I didn't now about pond vacs at this point) dredged the bottom
with my bare hands then a coarse net, then a fine net. So now I have a
thin layer of sludge at the bottom. I then added a good quality
filtration system with a small water fall, UV clarifier, an air ball
and some lighting.

I already had three largish goldfish, I've added 3 Tench, 3 Commits,
3 Goldfish, 3 blue orfe, 3 Sebunkins, all are quit small 3in.

Everything seems fine expect I can't see the Tench but I assume they
are ok. The water was very murky but after a few days it has started
to clear (you can see the rocks at the bottom of the pond) and is no
longer green.

My questions a

1 - Have I done the right thing in terms of setup and cleaning?

2 - I have had mixed advice on this but should I drain and clean the
pond and does this need to be done every year?

3 - Can I keep Koi in this pond?

4 - Is there anything else I should do?

5 - How many fish should I keep in the pond?

5 - Where have the Tench gone?

Sorry for the long story but I didn't want to leave anything out but
needless to say but I am now totally hooked!!!

Thanks in advance for you help.


You have got some pretty good advice from this group . All I can add is
..... stick with it !!!! To sit by a pond with a loved one and a bottle of
wine as evening falls is a pleasure beyond price.

John

hotpepper wrote:

Forgot to say - got back from work today after being away for a few
days and hence not been messing with the pond. The water is crystal
clear all the way to the bottom. I can see all the fish which has put
me at ease, the Orfe are darting around like mad and the tench are
slowly moving around the bottom - one even came to the top to eat! I
can now see the shape and layout of the pond so probably wont drain and
clean it.

I switch of the pump while cleaning it and for some reason sediment
started to stir up, is this normal? Why does this happen?

I'd guess your pump is moving water to some point above the water level of
the pond. When you switch it off, all the water in the pipe runs back down
into the pond, through the intake - which one assumes is near the bottom of
the pond - and stirs up the remaining sediment.

If there's any chance at all that the pipe could spring a leak that would
cause water to leave the pond, you should try to raise that intake up a few
inches, so that a catastrophe still leaves enough water in the pond for
your fish to survive!
--
derek