I typically have cleaned out my 3 yr old pond in the spring, fall and
once in the summer. I no longer have any tree near my pond and haven't
cleaned it out since spring. There does not appear to be a lot of
debris in there other than the typical. Does it really need to be
cleaned out before winter?

I cover it with a pool cover (leaving room for air to enter/exit) and
heat it to keep it from freezing. I am just thinking that a natural
pond never gets cleaned out and if mine looks fairly clean, is there a
need. Yes, I am being lazy. I also don't like stressing my Koi which
inveitably happens.

"Mike C" wrote:

I typically have cleaned out my 3 yr old pond in the spring, fall and
once in the summer. I no longer have any tree near my pond and haven't
cleaned it out since spring. There does not appear to be a lot of
debris in there other than the typical. Does it really need to be
cleaned out before winter?

I cover it with a pool cover (leaving room for air to enter/exit) and
heat it to keep it from freezing. I am just thinking that a natural
pond never gets cleaned out and if mine looks fairly clean, is there a
need. Yes, I am being lazy. I also don't like stressing my Koi which
inveitably happens.

Ahhh, but natural ponds also eventually fill in

When you say "cleaned out" what do you do? Do you empty the pond and power
wash everything or just power wash up the mulm from the bottom? I vacuum
mine up. Do you have stones on the bottom of the pond? Bottom drain?



San Diego Joe
4,000 - 5,000 Gallons.
Koi, Goldfish, and RES named Colombo.

I empty the water, remove fish and plants, and basically remove all
debris. I use a broom on the bottom and sides. I don't remove every
last trace of algae massively scrubbing it.

I don't have a bottom drain. I don't have stones (other than the ones
the Koi knock out of my plant pots).

Well when it comes time that a natural pond has to get cleaned its
called dredgeing........They will silt up in time, if they are not
constructed right with proper breaks for inflowing water to alow silt
to settle out, and even then they stil will silt up.

The way I clean mine or at least sanitize it to get rid of a lot of
organic material like rotted leaves pine straw etc is to dose it 2x
back to back every spring and 1 time in late fall about mid November
with potassium permanganate. If not, come spring you are subject to
all kinds of nasty things happening.......Since I started doing the 3
treatments with PP I have yet to get any fungal or bacterial problems
which is pretty common in most all ponds in the deep south especially
natural ones.........I took the advice of the University of FL in
prophylactic treating my pond and it been good.

On 14 Oct 2005 12:31:55 -0700, "Mike C"
wrote:

===I typically have cleaned out my 3 yr old pond in the spring, fall and
===once in the summer. I no longer have any tree near my pond and haven't
===cleaned it out since spring. There does not appear to be a lot of
===debris in there other than the typical. Does it really need to be
===cleaned out before winter?
===
===I cover it with a pool cover (leaving room for air to enter/exit) and
===heat it to keep it from freezing. I am just thinking that a natural
===pond never gets cleaned out and if mine looks fairly clean, is there a
===need. Yes, I am being lazy. I also don't like stressing my Koi which
===inveitably happens.


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

On 14 Oct 2005 12:31:55 -0700, "Mike C" wrote:

I typically have cleaned out my 3 yr old pond in the spring, fall and
once in the summer. I no longer have any tree near my pond and haven't
cleaned it out since spring. There does not appear to be a lot of
debris in there other than the typical. Does it really need to be
cleaned out before winter?

I cover it with a pool cover (leaving room for air to enter/exit) and
heat it to keep it from freezing. I am just thinking that a natural
pond never gets cleaned out and if mine looks fairly clean, is there a
need. Yes, I am being lazy. I also don't like stressing my Koi which
inveitably happens.

Perhaps just suck any accumulated muck up with a shop vac? Fall is the best
time, as your fish are strong and immune systems still up (if you haven't
waited too long into the fall). ~ jan

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA032 Is one of many papers (fact Sheets) on
use of PP. There are many other papers and articles concerning PP on
this website. Just sub the following additional fact sheet numbers in
place of the FA032 number in the above URL.

Their server is often very very busy and or slow, and they do take it
offline periodically to update things.

Additional papers on PP a

FA041
FA033
FA027
FA004

If you measure the amount of PP carefully, and know the exact gallons
in the pond and check and recheck your figures PP is relatively safe
and easy to use and does a terrific job. Often times more than not,
fish as well as plants all benefit from a dose periodically.. My
biggest chore was figuriing out exactly how much water was in my pond
(1+ acre natural pond) whose water level fluctuates with dry spells
and rainfalls, but I have it all figured out now in relationship to a
bench mark I made...I can normally hold the color differential between
6 hours minimum,, and 8 hours maximum pretty consistently......YOu
would be surprised at what a prophylactic dose of PP can ward off or
what it can heal.....Protazoan diseases, fungus, ulcers, septicemia
etc are almost non existent for the most part if done regularly. And
water clarity especially in a natural pond in the south could not be
better. Not even the typically found algae bloom problems occur.

Regards


On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 12:16:00 -0400, Hal wrote:

===On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 01:15:31 GMT, (~Roy)
===wrote:
===
===The way I clean mine or at least sanitize it to get rid of a lot of
===organic material like rotted leaves pine straw etc is to dose it 2x
===back to back every spring and 1 time in late fall about mid November
===with potassium permanganate. If not, come spring you are subject to
===all kinds of nasty things happening.......Since I started doing the 3
===treatments with PP I have yet to get any fungal or bacterial problems
===which is pretty common in most all ponds in the deep south especially
===natural ones.........I took the advice of the University of FL in
===prophylactic treating my pond and it been good.
===
===Sounds interesting. I tried a Google search, but didn't find a
===working University of Florida site. (It may be down for changes.)
===All I found was one from the UK urging caution with PP.
===http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/...rmanganate.htm
===
===I'd like to read about the PP treatment if you have a good URL, I'd
===appreciate it.
===
===Thanks,
===
===Hal


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

~Roy wrote:
Well when it comes time that a natural pond has to get cleaned its
called dredgeing........They will silt up in time, if they are not
constructed right with proper breaks for inflowing water to alow silt
to settle out, and even then they stil will silt up.

Are you using some alternate definition of the word natural?

I am referring to a narural pond being its a hole in the ground no
liners, no filtration and left tot he mercy of mother nature like any
other natural pond is........I do not understand what your question is
really! Natural is natural.......

On 15 Oct 2005 15:15:00 -0700, "Cyde Weys" wrote:

===
===~Roy wrote:
=== Well when it comes time that a natural pond has to get cleaned its
=== called dredgeing........They will silt up in time, if they are not
=== constructed right with proper breaks for inflowing water to alow silt
=== to settle out, and even then they stil will silt up.
===
===Are you using some alternate definition of the word natural?


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

it is much, much easier to handle PP is a stock solution is made first. there is
almost no risk of ODing the pond and much reduces the risk of fish swimming thru too
high a concentration of PP when stock is dripped into the pond.
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/d....htm#POTASSIUM
Ingrid

(~Roy) wrote:

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA032 Is one of many papers (fact Sheets) on
use of PP. There are many other papers and articles concerning PP on
this website. Just sub the following additional fact sheet numbers in
place of the FA032 number in the above URL.

Their server is often very very busy and or slow, and they do take it
offline periodically to update things.

Additional papers on PP a

FA041
FA033
FA027
FA004

If you measure the amount of PP carefully, and know the exact gallons
in the pond and check and recheck your figures PP is relatively safe
and easy to use and does a terrific job. Often times more than not,
fish as well as plants all benefit from a dose periodically.. My
biggest chore was figuriing out exactly how much water was in my pond
(1+ acre natural pond) whose water level fluctuates with dry spells
and rainfalls, but I have it all figured out now in relationship to a
bench mark I made...I can normally hold the color differential between
6 hours minimum,, and 8 hours maximum pretty consistently......YOu
would be surprised at what a prophylactic dose of PP can ward off or
what it can heal.....Protazoan diseases, fungus, ulcers, septicemia
etc are almost non existent for the most part if done regularly. And
water clarity especially in a natural pond in the south could not be
better. Not even the typically found algae bloom problems occur.

Regards



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://list.lovemyoldhome.com/web/wa.cgi?REPORT&z=3
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
any of the recommendations I make.
AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE

unless there is a heavy layer of leaves in the bottom of the pond it is best not to
clean the pond when the temp has gone down below 55oF since the fish immune system
shuts down below 55oF. same thing in spring, dont clean until the water temp has
been up and above 55 for 10 days. Ingrid

"Mike C" wrote:

I typically have cleaned out my 3 yr old pond in the spring, fall and
once in the summer. I no longer have any tree near my pond and haven't
cleaned it out since spring. There does not appear to be a lot of
debris in there other than the typical. Does it really need to be
cleaned out before winter?

I cover it with a pool cover (leaving room for air to enter/exit) and
heat it to keep it from freezing. I am just thinking that a natural
pond never gets cleaned out and if mine looks fairly clean, is there a
need. Yes, I am being lazy. I also don't like stressing my Koi which
inveitably happens.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://list.lovemyoldhome.com/web/wa.cgi?REPORT&z=3
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
any of the recommendations I make.
AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE

This is true, and the way I do it is to measure out the amount I need
and then divide that up so I find the correct amount needed for a 55
gal drum, which I then make up. I keep it circulating and agitated,
and with the drums loaded in a trailer behind my tractor, I use a pump
to spray the drums of PP stock solution out on to the pond. Once drum
is empty, there is always residue of undissolved crystals left no
matter how much you agitate it, so I just keep filling drums with pond
water and reapply until no more undissolved crystals remain in drum,
and I have the required amount of PP dispensed into the pond. The
method of dumping PP crystals into a 5 gal bucket and stirring or
broadcasting it over the water is a waste of time and materials as
most simply drops to the bottom and loays there and does little to
clean any of the water column as it does if sprayed over the
surface.......

The very first time I ever used PP was to treat my friends grossly
overlooked and maintained 2 1/2+ acre pond, which was inundated with a
bad algae bloom, and most fish were suffereing from fungal
problems.......I manaaged to hit it right on and follwed up with
another dose the next day, installed some aeration and then later on
about 6 or 7 months we hit it again with a dose back to back and its
been good looking ever since. Same for my ponds, never had nicer water
and looking as good, even when freshly constructed and filled as they
do now since using PP as a prophylactic treatment......Rarely does
ponds ever drop to low here to worry about the temp, especially not
during the months I have setup to dose mine..........

A gal of PP stock solution is very handy to keep around, as it can be
dispensed by drop and if mixed according to U of FL websites info, its
easy to figure out your dosages needed for the water quanity or
problem your dealing with. I use it all the time with my fresh water
tanks and ponds for sterilizing nets, tanks, cleaning up new plants,
etc etc.......Very handy to have around.....Keep it in a dark cool
place and you can be relatively safe with keeping it for a year or
so.



On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 15:34:20 GMT, wrote:

===it is much, much easier to handle PP is a stock solution is made first. there is
===almost no risk of ODing the pond and much reduces the risk of fish swimming thru too
===high a concentration of PP when stock is dripped into the pond.
===http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/d....htm#POTASSIUM
===Ingrid
===
(~Roy) wrote:
===
===http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA032 Is one of many papers (fact Sheets) on
===use of PP. There are many other papers and articles concerning PP on
===this website. Just sub the following additional fact sheet numbers in
===place of the FA032 number in the above URL.
===
===Their server is often very very busy and or slow, and they do take it
===offline periodically to update things.
===
===Additional papers on PP a
===
===FA041
===FA033
===FA027
===FA004
===
===If you measure the amount of PP carefully, and know the exact gallons
===in the pond and check and recheck your figures PP is relatively safe
===and easy to use and does a terrific job. Often times more than not,
===fish as well as plants all benefit from a dose periodically.. My
===biggest chore was figuriing out exactly how much water was in my pond
===(1+ acre natural pond) whose water level fluctuates with dry spells
===and rainfalls, but I have it all figured out now in relationship to a
===bench mark I made...I can normally hold the color differential between
===6 hours minimum,, and 8 hours maximum pretty consistently......YOu
===would be surprised at what a prophylactic dose of PP can ward off or
===what it can heal.....Protazoan diseases, fungus, ulcers, septicemia
===etc are almost non existent for the most part if done regularly. And
===water clarity especially in a natural pond in the south could not be
===better. Not even the typically found algae bloom problems occur.
===
===Regards
===
===
===
===~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~
===List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
===http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
===sign up: http://list.lovemyoldhome.com/web/wa.cgi?REPORT&z=3
===www.drsolo.com
===Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
===~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~
===I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
===compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
===any of the recommendations I make.
===AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

"Mike C" wrote:

I empty the water, remove fish and plants, and basically remove all
debris. I use a broom on the bottom and sides. I don't remove every
last trace of algae massively scrubbing it.

I don't have a bottom drain. I don't have stones (other than the ones
the Koi knock out of my plant pots).

Sounds like a lot of work! I usually just vacuum up the mulm from the
bottom, although I can see I may need to do a more thorough cleaning next
year. I think you could easily get by with only doing what you do every few
years.


San Diego Joe
4,000 - 5,000 Gallons.
Koi, Goldfish, and RES named Colombo.

and it can be used when the temps drop unlike formalin. INgrid

(~Roy) wrote:

This is true, and the way I do it is to measure out the amount I need
and then divide that up so I find the correct amount needed for a 55
gal drum, which I then make up. I keep it circulating and agitated,
and with the drums loaded in a trailer behind my tractor, I use a pump
to spray the drums of PP stock solution out on to the pond. Once drum
is empty, there is always residue of undissolved crystals left no
matter how much you agitate it, so I just keep filling drums with pond
water and reapply until no more undissolved crystals remain in drum,
and I have the required amount of PP dispensed into the pond. The
method of dumping PP crystals into a 5 gal bucket and stirring or
broadcasting it over the water is a waste of time and materials as
most simply drops to the bottom and loays there and does little to
clean any of the water column as it does if sprayed over the
surface.......

The very first time I ever used PP was to treat my friends grossly
overlooked and maintained 2 1/2+ acre pond, which was inundated with a
bad algae bloom, and most fish were suffereing from fungal
problems.......I manaaged to hit it right on and follwed up with
another dose the next day, installed some aeration and then later on
about 6 or 7 months we hit it again with a dose back to back and its
been good looking ever since. Same for my ponds, never had nicer water
and looking as good, even when freshly constructed and filled as they
do now since using PP as a prophylactic treatment......Rarely does
ponds ever drop to low here to worry about the temp, especially not
during the months I have setup to dose mine..........

A gal of PP stock solution is very handy to keep around, as it can be
dispensed by drop and if mixed according to U of FL websites info, its
easy to figure out your dosages needed for the water quanity or
problem your dealing with. I use it all the time with my fresh water
tanks and ponds for sterilizing nets, tanks, cleaning up new plants,
etc etc.......Very handy to have around.....Keep it in a dark cool
place and you can be relatively safe with keeping it for a year or
so.



On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 15:34:20 GMT, wrote:

===it is much, much easier to handle PP is a stock solution is made first. there is
===almost no risk of ODing the pond and much reduces the risk of fish swimming thru too
===high a concentration of PP when stock is dripped into the pond.
===http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/d....htm#POTASSIUM
===Ingrid
===
(~Roy) wrote:
===
===http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA032 Is one of many papers (fact Sheets) on
===use of PP. There are many other papers and articles concerning PP on
===this website. Just sub the following additional fact sheet numbers in
===place of the FA032 number in the above URL.
===
===Their server is often very very busy and or slow, and they do take it
===offline periodically to update things.
===
===Additional papers on PP a
===
===FA041
===FA033
===FA027
===FA004
===
===If you measure the amount of PP carefully, and know the exact gallons
===in the pond and check and recheck your figures PP is relatively safe
===and easy to use and does a terrific job. Often times more than not,
===fish as well as plants all benefit from a dose periodically.. My
===biggest chore was figuriing out exactly how much water was in my pond
===(1+ acre natural pond) whose water level fluctuates with dry spells
===and rainfalls, but I have it all figured out now in relationship to a
===bench mark I made...I can normally hold the color differential between
===6 hours minimum,, and 8 hours maximum pretty consistently......YOu
===would be surprised at what a prophylactic dose of PP can ward off or
===what it can heal.....Protazoan diseases, fungus, ulcers, septicemia
===etc are almost non existent for the most part if done regularly. And
===water clarity especially in a natural pond in the south could not be
===better. Not even the typically found algae bloom problems occur.
===
===Regards
===
===
===
===~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~
===List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
===http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
===sign up: http://list.lovemyoldhome.com/web/wa.cgi?REPORT&z=3
===www.drsolo.com
===Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
===~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~
===I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
===compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
===any of the recommendations I make.
===AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://list.lovemyoldhome.com/web/wa.cgi?REPORT&z=3
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
any of the recommendations I make.
AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE

wrote:
and it can be used when the temps drop unlike formalin. INgrid



You still here? wasn't you on that failed group of yours????

what was it called? Poo-poo Ponds?