I live in Maryland near Washington, D.C.. Let's say I wanted to build
a pond outside for koi and water plants. I'd be willing to do all of
the work myself, soo ... how much would it cost? I know this depends
on how big it's going to be, so let's say big enough so that it doesn't
freeze over the winter (to keep the fish alive). If that's even
possible, anyway. Presumably I'd need some sort of lining material, the
fish, the plants, and a pump. How much would I expect to pay? And
there's probably other stuff I haven't thought of, seeing as how I
haven't done this before.

"Cyde Weys" wrote in message
oups.com...
I live in Maryland near Washington, D.C.. Let's say I wanted to build
a pond outside for koi and water plants. I'd be willing to do all of
the work myself, soo ... how much would it cost? I know this depends
on how big it's going to be, so let's say big enough so that it doesn't
freeze over the winter (to keep the fish alive). If that's even
possible, anyway. Presumably I'd need some sort of lining material, the
fish, the plants, and a pump. How much would I expect to pay? And
there's probably other stuff I haven't thought of, seeing as how I
haven't done this before.
==============================
A simple hole in the ground with a liner, a pump and filter to start you
off - around $1,000.00 to $1,200.00. Plants can be bought on sale late in
the season. Join your local pond club and you'll probably get more for free
than you want. Or they can run you another $100.00 for a few starter
plants.
--
Reel McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

I made my pond for under $200.00.

pond kit from Home Depot. Rocks from a garden centre and plants from a
nursery. Fish from local pet store.

Ok the pond is only 8 X 4 X 2.
No filter but a pump for a waterfall.
Fish are feeder goldfish.

The whole point here is don't be afraid to start small and build your
way up as you learn.



Cyde Weys wrote:
I live in Maryland near Washington, D.C.. Let's say I wanted to build
a pond outside for koi and water plants. I'd be willing to do all of
the work myself, soo ... how much would it cost? I know this depends
on how big it's going to be, so let's say big enough so that it doesn't
freeze over the winter (to keep the fish alive). If that's even
possible, anyway. Presumably I'd need some sort of lining material, the
fish, the plants, and a pump. How much would I expect to pay? And
there's probably other stuff I haven't thought of, seeing as how I
haven't done this before.

"Cyde Weys" wrote in message
oups.com...
I live in Maryland near Washington, D.C.. Let's say I wanted to build
a pond outside for koi and water plants. I'd be willing to do all of
the work myself, soo ... how much would it cost? I know this depends
on how big it's going to be, so let's say big enough so that it doesn't
freeze over the winter (to keep the fish alive). If that's even
possible, anyway. Presumably I'd need some sort of lining material, the
fish, the plants, and a pump. How much would I expect to pay? And
there's probably other stuff I haven't thought of, seeing as how I
haven't done this before.

There are so many variables, not to mention your
own interests and preferences, it's impossible to
guess a price before you've made some decisions.

It's a good idea to buy one of those inexpensive
Ortho books on how to build a garden pond. That
will tell you what kinds of materials you can choose
from, taking into account your local weather
conditions. They also have information on fish.
Once you make your decisions, then you can check
on local (or online) prices for materials.

The Ortho and similar books can be found in
any large bookstore and home project stores
like Home Depot and Lowes. They cost
around $15, and are well worth the price.

Gail

How much would I expect to pay? And
there's probably other stuff I haven't thought of, seeing as how I
haven't done this before.[/color]

Yup, find out what you are getting yourself into, before you go into detail about cost.

Questions like, what are koi, what do they eat, what are their growth rates.

How do they cope best, between the extremities of winter and Summer...

What sort of problems can be expected keeping koi, for example coping with disease, disaster, breeding...

Consider the low density route (low cost, few fish, big pond) and the high density route (very expensive, machine intensive)

How much work is involved...

A few other subjects you may want to consider... water gardening can be a very useful stepping stone before making a big leap into keeping the most demanding of big pond fish.

An armful of books on water gardening, pond keeping, fishkeeping, koi keeping may save you a lot of grief which is usually associated with leaping into buying koi, before finding out what to expect

A shovel might be a useful next step, to start pecking away at digging through the Winter months

If you have the space and the inclination, a pond for koi can be as simple as buying a rather largish pond liner (100'x40'), and digging a couple of cubic yards a day, for a couple of months



Regards, andy
http://www.members.aol.com/abdavisnc/swglist.html

"adavisus" wrote in message
...

How much would I expect to pay? And
there's probably other stuff I haven't thought of, seeing as how I
haven't done this before.

Yup, find out what you are getting yourself into, before you go into
detail about cost.

Questions like, what are koi, what do they eat, what are their growth
rates.

How do they cope best, between the extremities of winter and Summer...

What sort of problems can be expected keeping koi, for example coping
with disease, disaster, breeding...

Consider the low density route (low cost, few fish, big pond) and the
high density route (very expensive, machine intensive)

How much work is involved...

A few other subjects you may want to consider... water gardening can
be a very useful stepping stone before making a big leap into keeping
the most demanding of big pond fish.

An armful of books on water gardening, pond keeping, fishkeeping, koi
keeping may save you a lot of grief which is usually associated with
leaping into buying koi, before finding out what to expect

A shovel might be a useful next step, to start pecking away at digging
through the Winter months

If you have the space and the inclination, a pond for koi can be as
simple as buying a rather largish pond liner (100'x40'), and digging a
couple of cubic yards a day, for a couple of months[/color]
==============================
All of this information can be found online, including right here. No need
to buy books if one is on a tight budget. ;-)
--
Reel McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 08:15:53 -0600, "Carol-Ann" wrote:


"adavisus" wrote in message
...

How much would I expect to pay? And
there's probably other stuff I haven't thought of, seeing as how I
haven't done this before.

Yup, find out what you are getting yourself into, before you go into
detail about cost.

Questions like, what are koi, what do they eat, what are their growth
rates.

How do they cope best, between the extremities of winter and Summer...

What sort of problems can be expected keeping koi, for example coping
with disease, disaster, breeding...

Consider the low density route (low cost, few fish, big pond) and the
high density route (very expensive, machine intensive)

How much work is involved...

A few other subjects you may want to consider... water gardening can
be a very useful stepping stone before making a big leap into keeping
the most demanding of big pond fish.

An armful of books on water gardening, pond keeping, fishkeeping, koi
keeping may save you a lot of grief which is usually associated with
leaping into buying koi, before finding out what to expect

A shovel might be a useful next step, to start pecking away at digging
through the Winter months

If you have the space and the inclination, a pond for koi can be as
simple as buying a rather largish pond liner (100'x40'), and digging a
couple of cubic yards a day, for a couple of months
==============================
All of this information can be found online, including right here. No need
to buy books if one is on a tight budget. ;-)[/color]

I'd say do the initial research online for convenience and a variety
of viewpoints. Ponding doesn't have to be expensive, but if $15 is
going to strain the budget, I'd suggest some other project. The pond
'world' doesn't need another poorly designed, poorly constructed pond.

PlainBill

You said the magic or dreaded word "Koi". Research Koi ponds as they are typically deeper, include bottom drains, settling chambers, Skimmer, UV and filters that may include anything from vortex systems, bead filters, trickle towers, or combos of these items. I built my 16x14x4 with BD, setting pond, bead filter, Skimmer with UV and 45 EPDM liner for $4000. This includes $1000 for coping rocks, plus landscaping, also the cost of concrete block, cement, rebar, plumbing, plants, pump, ect.

In 6 years my Koi have grown to be between 6-8 lbs. They are huge poop makers, so plan accordingly to save headaches down the road.

Happy ponding.

"PlainBill" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 08:15:53 -0600, "Carol-Ann" wrote:


"adavisus" wrote in message
...

How much would I expect to pay? And
there's probably other stuff I haven't thought of, seeing as how I
haven't done this before.

Yup, find out what you are getting yourself into, before you go into
detail about cost.

Questions like, what are koi, what do they eat, what are their growth
rates.

How do they cope best, between the extremities of winter and Summer...

What sort of problems can be expected keeping koi, for example coping
with disease, disaster, breeding...

Consider the low density route (low cost, few fish, big pond) and the
high density route (very expensive, machine intensive)

How much work is involved...

A few other subjects you may want to consider... water gardening can
be a very useful stepping stone before making a big leap into keeping
the most demanding of big pond fish.

An armful of books on water gardening, pond keeping, fishkeeping, koi
keeping may save you a lot of grief which is usually associated with
leaping into buying koi, before finding out what to expect

A shovel might be a useful next step, to start pecking away at digging
through the Winter months

If you have the space and the inclination, a pond for koi can be as
simple as buying a rather largish pond liner (100'x40'), and digging a
couple of cubic yards a day, for a couple of months
==============================
All of this information can be found online, including right here. No
need
to buy books if one is on a tight budget. ;-)[/color]
===============================================
I'd say do the initial research online for convenience and a variety
of viewpoints. Ponding doesn't have to be expensive, but if $15 is
going to strain the budget, I'd suggest some other project.

## I have several pond books and can say I learned MORE online than from the
books. Our first pond was put in according to a Tetra Pond Book (a year
before we got online) and the information was awful. We have to redo the
berm on this first pond as we did the larger one this past summer. There
was little mention of soil types and how to stabilize the berm - and almost
nothing about predators.

The pond
'world' doesn't need another poorly designed, poorly constructed pond.

## Which you can make quite easily following the advice in some of the books
out there. The pond world doesn't *need* any artificial ponds at all for
that matter! LOL!!! :-) Ponds are fun, a hobby and certainly not
necessary for the world to go on.

Some people are on tight budgets and that should be considered - not
everyone has a 6 figure income.
--
Reel McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Oh have I got the answer for you................................ from an earlier
post

"Cyde Weys" wrote:
I live in Maryland near Washington, D.C.. Let's say I wanted to build
a pond outside for koi and water plants. I'd be willing to do all of
the work myself, soo ... how much would it cost?

"Here I sit in a tent next to a lake with my hands shaking and the coffee
helping my nerves. What has this got to do with building a water
garden you ask? Well, sit back and let me share the story of my "little
water garden" that started a few months back.
Boy, these ponds sure look like a lot of fun to build and our neighbor
fred up the street said it was easy to install yourself.
So I started to dig a hole and everything was going great until I hit
"the Rock", which would later prove to be my demise. I thought I could
dig around this rock by hand so I dug and dug and well you get the
picture. I went through two wooden handled shovels trying to leverage
the rock out so I ordered a steel shaft shovel from biggertools.com on
the internet. Of course I paid the extra for the overnight delivery(I
didn’t want to slow my progress). It was delivered the next day by 8:30
AM.
By 9:30 AM I was rushed to the doctor’s office by ambulance…….why you
ask? Well the steel shafted shovel weighed in at 90 lbs. After
digging for about an hour I felt a snap in my back which caused me in
turn to drop the shovel on my big toe which would have been fine had I
been wearing boots…unfortunately I was wearing sandals which do not have
steel reinforced straps!!!
After a few stitches to my toe, corrective shoes and 2 weeks of therapy
for my back and I was as good as well, well a forty year old.
Back to the rock….Well, I called explosives-r-us and they assured me
they could handle this rock. Everything was going well until they
pushed the button. The good news is my pond is going to be much bigger
than originally thought. The bad news is it blew out all of my
neighbors windows. I told him, look you will get much better
ventilation this summer that way. He found no humor in the moment…..my
insurance company assured me I was covered under the "idiot clause" in
my insurance, of course less my deductible.
I hopped into my escort and sped off to the local pond store to get my
30 ‘x40’ liner. With the help of the employees we dropped the liner
into the trunk off by sliding it off of the forklift.
I didn’t think the noise from my bumper dragging was all that bad..I
just turned the 8 track up louder and I didn’t notice the sparks from
the bumper starting the prairie fire in the lot next to my house.
I pulled into the drive and my wife and I pulled the liner out after
using several successful words I learned from my dad as a kid that
always helped in situations like this. It was after I got the liner out
that I noticed the smoke coming from the back yard….remember the sparks
from my bumper?
With a little help from the local volunteer fire dept. we had the fire
out in a couple of hours. Man that smoke really does burn your eyes
and the looks from my wife were pretty painful also.
The good news is the fire killed all the grass around my pond and now
landscaping will be much easier I pointed out to my wife.
The rest of the pond construction was pretty uneventful except for the
new electrical panel we had to install to handle the 25,000 gph pump I
had to have and the fact that the city tracked the lowering of the local
reservoir by two feet to me filling up our new pond.
I was able to stock my water garden with some great Koi…the bad news is
my mother-in-law found out I had hocked some of her jewelry to fund this
purchase. She has decided not to press charges now and the police said
the ink will wear off of my fingertips in a few weeks.
Which brings me back to the tent and the coffee. My wife said I can
move back in as soon as I pay her mother back for the fish and I can
find someone to get this Koi tattoo(don’t ask) off of my body.
I have had to take two other jobs to pay off the pond related expenses
as follows
2 wooden shovels @ $20.00 ea. $40.00
1 Steel shafted shovel @ $40.00 $40.00
1 Overnight delivery $60.00
Doctor’s Office Visit $100.00
Physical Therapy $375.00
Explosives-R-Us $950.00
Insurance deductible $500.00
Pond Equipment & liner $1250.00
Repair Escort Bumper* $150.00
Have Ford Dealer repair bumper correctly $649.00
Donation to volunteer fire dept. $500.00
New Electrical panel $700.00
City Fine for lowering reservoir $275.00
Cruise to pay off mother in law $3700.00
Tatoo(From Vinnys Tatoo & Garage) $245.00
Second Honeymoon with wife to
Save marriage $5000.00
Camping Gear $875.00
I am now back with my wife and the pond was worth every penny……the
lesson, do lots of research, read books, magazines, go on tours and then
dig in! Ponding is really very easy and will provide you with a
lifetime of enjoyment. Phil Geusz

"I got a copy of the Daphnian (the bulletin of the Boston Aquarium
Society) in the mail a couple weeks back, and have been forgetting
almost daily to post my thanks here to whoever reprinted my silly little
article there. (I carefully kept the name of my beneficiary on file, but
a hard-drive crash scrambled it for me.)
I also want to thank the list as a whole- if it had not been for the
friendly atmosphere here I never would have posted something so
frivolous. And yet it resulted in something very important to me- the
first time I have ever seen real print. And in the prime inside-cover
spot, too...
I bought everyone at work a soda the day that publication arrived. I
can't do that for everyone here, but I would if I could.
And my fish are fine. The house, car, and retaining wall, well, work
progresses.... Phil"


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://list.lovemyoldhome.com/web/wa.cgi?REPORT&z=3
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
any of the recommendations I make.
AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE

Koitoy wrote:
You said the magic or dreaded word "Koi". Research Koi ponds as they
are typically deeper,
.... true
include bottom drains, settling chambers, Skimmer, filters that may include anything from vortex systems,
bead filters, trickle towers, or combos of these items.
..... nope, dont have to

http://weloveteaching.com/mypond/mypond.htm
........... my pond is made of 2x4 greenwood sides with greenwood plywood, carpet
padding, permalon liner, the filter is 2x8 pine with 2x5 cedar front on the filter
and around the front. I DO have a big ass air blower @ $400 but it isnt totally
necessary. I have a pump for the water fall. Once a year I pull out the plants (to
take em inside for winter) and suction out the crud in the filter with a wet vac. I
do use a UV light but the filter really sucks the rest out. The pond has been up
since 2000 and I can still see the stones knocked out of my lily pot and a couple
wrinkles in the liner on the bottom and have never cleaned the bottom at all.
All summer I walk out, sit down, feed the fish. once a week or when I remember I
squish the snails attached to the little wimp pump that feeds the UV. A couple times
in the summer if I think the water is slowing I pull up the pump to clean off the
grate that keeps junk outta the pump. A couple times a year I run 500 gallons or so
out and replace. Other than that ...... I just enjoy it immensely. absolutely cheap
and simplicity itself to take care of. Ingrid


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://list.lovemyoldhome.com/web/wa.cgi?REPORT&z=3
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
any of the recommendations I make.
AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE

]Koitoy wrote:
You said the magic or dreaded word "Koi". Research Koi ponds as they
are typically deeper,
.... true
include bottom drains, settling chambers, Skimmer, filters that may include anything from vortex systems,
bead filters, trickle towers, or combos of these items.
..... nope, dont have to

http://weloveteaching.com/mypond/mypond.htm
........... my pond is made of 2x4 greenwood sides with greenwood plywood, carpet
padding, permalon liner, the filter is 2x8 pine with 2x5 cedar front on the filter
and around the front. I DO have a big ass air blower @ $400 but it isnt totally
necessary. I have a pump for the water fall. Once a year I pull out the plants (to
take em inside for winter) and suction out the crud in the filter with a wet vac. I
do use a UV light but the filter really sucks the rest out. The pond has been up
since 2000 and I can still see the stones knocked out of my lily pot and a couple
wrinkles in the liner on the bottom and have never cleaned the bottom at all.
All summer I walk out, sit down, feed the fish. once a week or when I remember I
squish the snails attached to the little wimp pump that feeds the UV. A couple times
in the summer if I think the water is slowing I pull up the pump to clean off the
grate that keeps junk outta the pump. A couple times a year I run 500 gallons or so
out and replace. Other than that ...... I just enjoy it immensely. absolutely cheap
and simplicity itself to take care of. Ingrid


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ingrid- Rock on! If your pond works for you- then great. My pond needed a redo when the Koi grew to 6-8 lbs each. My simple system did not work anymore. The new system provides crystal clear water, and the water quality tests excellent, even though I feed the fish a lot. There is more then one way to have a pond, and I am glad that you enjoy your pond. But with 6 years experience with Koi- I stand by my recommendation to do a lot of research, and plan to include adaquate filtration. Happy ponding.

[quote=Koitoy] Just to counter balance the 'how not to do it' and the 'how to burn money faster' approaches....

Here's the 'how to do it extremely cost effectively and end up with very happy koi' approach

1) Dig hole in diggable ground, at a steady pace, couple of cubic yards at a time, over winter when it is convenient to wear thick clothes and heavy boots.... Dig down 1.5' over most of the area, ramp sides up by one foot (big tip, dig half the depth, use dug stuff to raise sides aka dig half a pond to make full depth)

2) 40' x 20' was the target. To cost effectively use 25' wide roll stuff.

3) 45° Angled sides go to a 30" deep area (deep enough for a bucket, with water lilies to have 18" water over them) Angled sides discourage herons, they don't like steep pond sides

4) Kidney narrow mid section has a five foot pit, where sediments drift and gather in, the rest of the 30" deep area gently shelves toward the 5' deep 'pit'

5) Pond size, depth and volume is calculated to accommodate five breeding size koi...

stats: 13,000 gallons, in effect 2,500 gallons per fish. With 60% of the pond area heavily planted with classy waterlilies, the water quality of that volume of water being filtered by aquatics easily coped with five fish. The fish had tons of tasty tid bits to spare and females spawned three times a year, with a little perk of meaty tidbits

No pumps, filters or water squelching devices. Yes, there was a pleasant paddle to rake out sediments drifting into the five foot deep pit on a day warm for paddling, a couple of dozen buckets to tip out in the bog bed made for gunnera, nest to the koi pond.

Because of the low density fish levels and very big margin of safety on water quality, nothing other than topping up required with a hose pipe. Maybe sprinkle the pond on a hot day to oxygenate it toward dawn, using existing timer switch

Fish never ill over ten year period... Modest Copper sulphate doses in Autumn and Spring, to suppress fungus

Cost? Maybe $40 for the liner (traded for with classy aquatic plants) aka zilch...

Shovel? barely used, already in shed

Stone bridge across part of the pond? that is another story...

Regards, andy
http://www.members.aol.com/abdavisnc/swglist.html

We had a guy with a backhoe do the basic digging of our pond. Cost was only
a few hundred dollars. The hole was 16 x 22 feet. A bargain in terms of
time and effort. In an hour, we had a hole and downhill berm. Think about
the process. We have never regretted the step. The link in the signature
will show you our end product.

Jim

"Cyde Weys" wrote in message
oups.com...
I live in Maryland near Washington, D.C.. Let's say I wanted to build
a pond outside for koi and water plants. I'd be willing to do all of
the work myself, soo ... how much would it cost? I know this depends
on how big it's going to be, so let's say big enough so that it doesn't
freeze over the winter (to keep the fish alive). If that's even
possible, anyway. Presumably I'd need some sort of lining material, the
fish, the plants, and a pump. How much would I expect to pay? And
there's probably other stuff I haven't thought of, seeing as how I
haven't done this before.

On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 08:15:53 -0600, "Carol-Ann" wrote:

snip

Or you could do as Carol Gulley / Reel McKoi does and just slitther
around behind the local quickie marts and strip malls and rip off
their shipping containers to use for small ponds.........


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o