I recently posted about some of my long fin fish having split fins. I came
away feeling it was probably just spring stress, possibly trying to get away
from a heron and all was probably okay - add a little salt and watch them.
Well unfortunately they are definitely getting worse.

The worst symptom is my best guess velvet/oodinium. These symptoms popped
up over the weekend while it was rainy and overcast and are quite visible
today and were unobserved Friday. It would be difficult to see even on all
fish but my dark fish and even a few gold comets have would looks like a bad
case of dry skin and/or dandruff. Hard to see for sure but I would say some
of them literally have some scales/skin which is coming loose. Hard to
describe but it is a very white palour all over and on the fins in
particular large white flecks. It reminds me of when you get a sunburn on
a tan and you skin get white and flakey in some areas. Perhaps it is not
that bad, but that is its appearance. Also a few fish are beginning to
exhibit fin rot, where as previously it was just healthy fins but split.
There is a little bit of blood in a few tail fins, but thus far very little

I also have 2 white comets and 2 shubunkins who would appear to be
hemorrhaging(?) quite a bit starting at the base of the dorsal fin only. It
a dark red streaking pretty much around the scales. Initially I thought
they may just be gaining color, but now I think probably not. They are all
active, although I will occasionally find 4 or 5 of them huddling together.
These seem to linger in there huddle a little longer but once they see me
for long will join the others in swimming around begging for food.

As mentioned before the obvious parameters are perfect
Am-0, Nitri-0, Nitra-5, pH 7.6/7.8, Kh appr 120, Gh appr 180 - all normal
readings. I did do a small water change (15%?) after my last post - did
treat with Prime. Very thin muck layer in pond.

Due to laziness I did not add salt, but today did add .9lb/100 gal - pond is
around 850 gal. Water temp is 62 although it has been as high as 68
already. I have not done anything to the pond in months except cut the dead
Umbrella palms and remove quite a bit of anacharis and pennywort. (2 wks
ago). I throughly cleaned one of my two sink filters about 5 weeks ago. I
did resume feeding about half of normal since the water has consistently
been above 60, apprx. 15 days ago.

I would really appreciate help on a diagnosis and treatment. Do you agree
it is oodinium? Anything else? If this is my problem I have read
potentially adding salt - but no mention of percentages and also Copper
Sulfate. It is not clear to me if it's an either/or situation. Also my
primary pond meds place is closed today so I don't know what forms Copper
Sulfate comes in and any possible alternatives and/or precautions. I have
numerous plants which I will remove if I add any more salt. Someone told me
the Copper will kill all the plants, but was uncertain about the bio filter.
I do have a koi advisor potentially coming tomorrow however thus far they(4)
have none of them symptoms mentioned. It seems some Koi people are much
less familiar with the maladies of comets, shubunkins, and fantails.

Sorry to be so lengthy but I am VERY concerned it is an act swiftly
situation. btw I am almost certain that it is not ich or just milky
slimecoat. Thanks in advance!!
Bill

"humBill" wrote in message
t...
I recently posted about some of my long fin fish having split fins. I came
away feeling it was probably just spring stress, possibly trying to get
away from a heron and all was probably okay - add a little salt and watch
them. Well unfortunately they are definitely getting worse.
===============
I hope you've already done a search on pond fish diseases (try Google).
Check out the www.koivet.com website. It sure sounds like you have a
serious problem developing with your fish. In my personal opinion I think
you still need to do more LARGER, more FREQUENT water changes. There are
dissolved solids these test kits don't measure. Try and get out as much
mulm as possible. Remove the plants if you're going the salt route. When
I have to treat anything as large as a pond I use Potassium Permanganate.
But this must be handled very carefully.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

My best guess. Ammonia burn, perhaps it spiked after you cleaned the filter
or removed plants, and then settled down. Thus you'd see the problem, but
not the cause (0 reading). Salt is the direction I would go....

Keep in mind, a predator can cause stress, that in turn causes disease to
get the upper hand. So you may have to come up with some anti-predator
device(s) if you haven't already. ~ jan

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 00:02:19 GMT, "humBill" wrote:

I recently posted about some of my long fin fish having split fins. I came
away feeling it was probably just spring stress, possibly trying to get away
from a heron and all was probably okay - add a little salt and watch them.
Well unfortunately they are definitely getting worse.

The worst symptom is my best guess velvet/oodinium. These symptoms popped
up over the weekend while it was rainy and overcast and are quite visible
today and were unobserved Friday. It would be difficult to see even on all
fish but my dark fish and even a few gold comets have would looks like a bad
case of dry skin and/or dandruff. Hard to see for sure but I would say some
of them literally have some scales/skin which is coming loose. Hard to
describe but it is a very white palour all over and on the fins in
particular large white flecks. It reminds me of when you get a sunburn on
a tan and you skin get white and flakey in some areas. Perhaps it is not
that bad, but that is its appearance. Also a few fish are beginning to
exhibit fin rot, where as previously it was just healthy fins but split.
There is a little bit of blood in a few tail fins, but thus far very little

I also have 2 white comets and 2 shubunkins who would appear to be
hemorrhaging(?) quite a bit starting at the base of the dorsal fin only. It
a dark red streaking pretty much around the scales. Initially I thought
they may just be gaining color, but now I think probably not. They are all
active, although I will occasionally find 4 or 5 of them huddling together.
These seem to linger in there huddle a little longer but once they see me
for long will join the others in swimming around begging for food.

As mentioned before the obvious parameters are perfect
Am-0, Nitri-0, Nitra-5, pH 7.6/7.8, Kh appr 120, Gh appr 180 - all normal
readings. I did do a small water change (15%?) after my last post - did
treat with Prime. Very thin muck layer in pond.

Due to laziness I did not add salt, but today did add .9lb/100 gal - pond is
around 850 gal. Water temp is 62 although it has been as high as 68
already. I have not done anything to the pond in months except cut the dead
Umbrella palms and remove quite a bit of anacharis and pennywort. (2 wks
ago). I throughly cleaned one of my two sink filters about 5 weeks ago. I
did resume feeding about half of normal since the water has consistently
been above 60, apprx. 15 days ago.

I would really appreciate help on a diagnosis and treatment. Do you agree
it is oodinium? Anything else? If this is my problem I have read
potentially adding salt - but no mention of percentages and also Copper
Sulfate. It is not clear to me if it's an either/or situation. Also my
primary pond meds place is closed today so I don't know what forms Copper
Sulfate comes in and any possible alternatives and/or precautions. I have
numerous plants which I will remove if I add any more salt. Someone told me
the Copper will kill all the plants, but was uncertain about the bio filter.
I do have a koi advisor potentially coming tomorrow however thus far they(4)
have none of them symptoms mentioned. It seems some Koi people are much
less familiar with the maladies of comets, shubunkins, and fantails.

Sorry to be so lengthy but I am VERY concerned it is an act swiftly
situation. btw I am almost certain that it is not ich or just milky
slimecoat. Thanks in advance!!
Bill



~ jan/WA
Zone 7a

at the temps you got you can use quick cure or any similar treatment IF AND ONLY IF
you can snag one of em and check their gills. treat if the gills are bright red, dont
treat if the gills are dark. It could be the cleaning leading to oodinium, I agree
that is probably it on GF. ich on koi looks like you said, reddish skin, white
spots.
it could be combo of oodinium and ich.
DO NOT USE QUICK CURE WITH MORE THAN 0.05% SALT. if you got more than that then use
the potassium permanganate
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/d....htm#POTASSIUM
Ingrid

"humBill" wrote:
I recently posted about some of my long fin fish having split fins. I came
away feeling it was probably just spring stress, possibly trying to get away
from a heron and all was probably okay - add a little salt and watch them.
Well unfortunately they are definitely getting worse.

The worst symptom is my best guess velvet/oodinium. These symptoms popped
up over the weekend while it was rainy and overcast and are quite visible
today and were unobserved Friday. It would be difficult to see even on all
fish but my dark fish and even a few gold comets have would looks like a bad
case of dry skin and/or dandruff. Hard to see for sure but I would say some
of them literally have some scales/skin which is coming loose. Hard to
describe but it is a very white palour all over and on the fins in
particular large white flecks. It reminds me of when you get a sunburn on
a tan and you skin get white and flakey in some areas. Perhaps it is not
that bad, but that is its appearance. Also a few fish are beginning to
exhibit fin rot, where as previously it was just healthy fins but split.
There is a little bit of blood in a few tail fins, but thus far very little

I also have 2 white comets and 2 shubunkins who would appear to be
hemorrhaging(?) quite a bit starting at the base of the dorsal fin only. It
a dark red streaking pretty much around the scales. Initially I thought
they may just be gaining color, but now I think probably not. They are all
active, although I will occasionally find 4 or 5 of them huddling together.
These seem to linger in there huddle a little longer but once they see me
for long will join the others in swimming around begging for food.

As mentioned before the obvious parameters are perfect
Am-0, Nitri-0, Nitra-5, pH 7.6/7.8, Kh appr 120, Gh appr 180 - all normal
readings. I did do a small water change (15%?) after my last post - did
treat with Prime. Very thin muck layer in pond.

Due to laziness I did not add salt, but today did add .9lb/100 gal - pond is
around 850 gal. Water temp is 62 although it has been as high as 68
already. I have not done anything to the pond in months except cut the dead
Umbrella palms and remove quite a bit of anacharis and pennywort. (2 wks
ago). I throughly cleaned one of my two sink filters about 5 weeks ago. I
did resume feeding about half of normal since the water has consistently
been above 60, apprx. 15 days ago.

I would really appreciate help on a diagnosis and treatment. Do you agree
it is oodinium? Anything else? If this is my problem I have read
potentially adding salt - but no mention of percentages and also Copper
Sulfate. It is not clear to me if it's an either/or situation. Also my
primary pond meds place is closed today so I don't know what forms Copper
Sulfate comes in and any possible alternatives and/or precautions. I have
numerous plants which I will remove if I add any more salt. Someone told me
the Copper will kill all the plants, but was uncertain about the bio filter.
I do have a koi advisor potentially coming tomorrow however thus far they(4)
have none of them symptoms mentioned. It seems some Koi people are much
less familiar with the maladies of comets, shubunkins, and fantails.

Sorry to be so lengthy but I am VERY concerned it is an act swiftly
situation. btw I am almost certain that it is not ich or just milky
slimecoat. Thanks in advance!!
Bill





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.

Thanks so much for your help and suggestions. My pond friend came today
with a scope but I was only able to catch 2 fish who presently had no
symptoms and indeed no parasites were found. We have made tentative
arrangements for her to come back Thurs after I have removed plants, &
probably water to enable netting some a bit easy. I am opting not to zap the
pond with PP untill we can hopefully identify the culprit(s). In the mean
time I have only added salt to 1% and today added about 14 oz of Melafix. I
will be watching them carefully in the meantime and finding my notes on PP
dosing ( I have the powder) so I can/will be aggressive if I see hardly any
more signs of deterioration. I will get back with actual results as they
happen.
Bill

"humBill" wrote in message
t...
I recently posted about some of my long fin fish having split fins. I came
away feeling it was probably just spring stress, possibly trying to get
away from a heron and all was probably okay - add a little salt and watch
them. Well unfortunately they are definitely getting worse.

The worst symptom is my best guess velvet/oodinium. These symptoms popped
up over the weekend while it was rainy and overcast and are quite visible
today and were unobserved Friday. It would be difficult to see even on
all fish but my dark fish and even a few gold comets have would looks like
a bad case of dry skin and/or dandruff. Hard to see for sure but I would
say some of them literally have some scales/skin which is coming loose.
Hard to describe but it is a very white palour all over and on the fins in
particular large white flecks. It reminds me of when you get a sunburn
on a tan and you skin get white and flakey in some areas. Perhaps it is
not that bad, but that is its appearance. Also a few fish are beginning
to exhibit fin rot, where as previously it was just healthy fins but
split. There is a little bit of blood in a few tail fins, but thus far
very little

I also have 2 white comets and 2 shubunkins who would appear to be
hemorrhaging(?) quite a bit starting at the base of the dorsal fin only.
It a dark red streaking pretty much around the scales. Initially I
thought they may just be gaining color, but now I think probably not.
They are all active, although I will occasionally find 4 or 5 of them
huddling together. These seem to linger in there huddle a little longer
but once they see me for long will join the others in swimming around
begging for food.

As mentioned before the obvious parameters are perfect
Am-0, Nitri-0, Nitra-5, pH 7.6/7.8, Kh appr 120, Gh appr 180 - all normal
readings. I did do a small water change (15%?) after my last post - did
treat with Prime. Very thin muck layer in pond.

Due to laziness I did not add salt, but today did add .9lb/100 gal - pond
is around 850 gal. Water temp is 62 although it has been as high as 68
already. I have not done anything to the pond in months except cut the
dead Umbrella palms and remove quite a bit of anacharis and pennywort. (2
wks ago). I throughly cleaned one of my two sink filters about 5 weeks
ago. I did resume feeding about half of normal since the water has
consistently been above 60, apprx. 15 days ago.

I would really appreciate help on a diagnosis and treatment. Do you agree
it is oodinium? Anything else? If this is my problem I have read
potentially adding salt - but no mention of percentages and also Copper
Sulfate. It is not clear to me if it's an either/or situation. Also my
primary pond meds place is closed today so I don't know what forms Copper
Sulfate comes in and any possible alternatives and/or precautions. I
have numerous plants which I will remove if I add any more salt. Someone
told me the Copper will kill all the plants, but was uncertain about the
bio filter. I do have a koi advisor potentially coming tomorrow however
thus far they(4) have none of them symptoms mentioned. It seems some Koi
people are much less familiar with the maladies of comets, shubunkins, and
fantails.

Sorry to be so lengthy but I am VERY concerned it is an act swiftly
situation. btw I am almost certain that it is not ich or just milky
slimecoat. Thanks in advance!!
Bill

DONT use melafix, the stuff is harsh on gills.
and make a liquid stock solution of PP or it is easy to kill your fish just by
putting it in the water, not even if it is too much.
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/d....htm#POTASSIUM
gives directions.
Ingrid

" In the mean
time I have only added salt to 1% and today added about 14 oz of Melafix. I
will be watching them carefully in the meantime and finding my notes on PP
dosing ( I have the powder)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.