Hi all,
I have a mature pond about 8 years old, 800 gallons, about 50 goldfish
ranging from tiny tiddlers to about 5" long, plus one really big ghost koi
about 18" long. I have all the usual filtration, waterfall and oxygenating
plants, UV light, water is nice and clean and clear and always has been. I
feed the fish about every couple of days - if they get too much they get
frisky.

Big problem - In the last week I've found 3 of the larger goldfish just
floating dead in the water. They have no signs of any disease and look
perfectly OK, just dead. This is very distressing as I'm spending every
moment checking the pond and expecting all my little friends to die. I put
some medifin in the pond a couple of days ago (I treat it twice a year
normally - Spring and Autumn), but I've had another death since then.

The only thing that's changed recently (don't know if it could possibly be
the reason) - I recently netted the pond because we were visited by a heron,
then I realised that the frogs and newts couldn't get in and out so I put a
length of wood into the water from the side. the wood is sapele (sp?) and
is definitely untreated, but I know some hardwoods have funny substances in
them - do you think this might have poisoned the water ?? What shall I do ?
Please get back to me soon - I'm desperate to save them.
Thanks, Carole

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:24:08 +0100, "Carole"
wrote:

Hi all,
I have a mature pond about 8 years old, 800 gallons, about 50 goldfish
ranging from tiny tiddlers to about 5" long, plus one really big ghost koi
about 18" long. I have all the usual filtration, waterfall and oxygenating
plants, UV light, water is nice and clean and clear and always has been. I
feed the fish about every couple of days - if they get too much they get
frisky

Just what the hell is a dam "Tiddler"
Clean clean water does not dictate water quality by any means..
Care to expalin what "usual" filtraton is........

Big problem - In the last week I've found 3 of the larger goldfish just
floating dead in the water. They have no signs of any disease and look
perfectly OK, just dead.
So looking perfectly OK...dead is normal for you?

This is very distressing as I'm spending every
moment checking the pond and expecting all my little friends to die.
By checking the pind are you putting your eyeballs on the fish to see
if any more die or are you doing wtaer parameters and making
ajustments. Checking the pond is a word that is useless useless unless
you state WHAT your doing.....
I put
some medifin in the pond a couple of days ago (I treat it twice a year
normally - Spring and Autumn), but I've had another death since then.


So are you know to arbitrarily shot gun treat fish just so you can say
you did somehtiung rather than finding out what specifically is wrong
and adjust accordingly? Sounds that way. Why add a med type supplement
when perhaps all they mneed is better water conditions Get a test
kit and use it.

The only thing that's changed recently (don't know if it could possibly be
the reason) - I recently netted the pond because we were visited by a heron,
then I realised that the frogs and newts couldn't get in and out so I put a
length of wood into the water from the side. the wood is sapele (sp?) and
is definitely untreated, but I know some hardwoods have funny substances in
them - do you think this might have poisoned the water ?? What shall I do ?
Please get back to me soon - I'm desperate to save them


I doubt the heron or the newt has a thing to do with the problem, nr
the wood, but it would propbably be prudent in your case to remove
wood............but applicable test kits and post results. Other than
that yu may as well continue using your medfin since its only a shot
in the dark and continue your quest to watch the pond instead of
correct what more thanlikely is a water parameter (quality)
problem.....
Thanks, Carole

1. What are the Symptoms, how do the fish act now, have you any guess
as to the disease?



2. Which fish show symptoms, no symptoms and which fish already died?



3. How and when did the symptoms start?



4. How old are the sick fish?



5. Were new fish added, what date, where did they come from?



6. Were they quarantined, by whom& how long?



7. Have you changed a lot of water (more than 1/2), treated a disease
or added rocks or plants recently?



8.Your Pond is:

How old, how many gallons, what size: width, length depth, what
filter, how big, How many fish, number and size.


9.When was the last time you topped off the pond, changed out water,
cleaned your filter.



10. What kind of water are you using: Well, City, Rain or chemically
treated water.



11.Have you used any chemicals, paints, sprays or has there been
construction near the pond.



12.Have you tested your water. Which test kit did you use. What has
been the water temperature in the last week?

PH=

Ammonia=

Nitrite=

Nitrate=

Phosphate=

Oxygen=

Hardness=

Carbon dioxide=

Copper=

Iron=

Lead=



13.What brand of food are you feeding, how much and how many times a
day? Any supplemental food i.e. Oranges, Bread, Cheerios etc.. How
much. Who feeds the fish?



14. Have you added any Medicines (Including Salt) to the pond in the
last month---what kind?

the key is "the larger" fish died. this is almost always a sign of
problems with enough oxygen. oxygen problems occur as water temps
increase. they die in the early morning hours. at any time you see
fish at the surface "piping".
otherwise, it could be a disease attacking the gills. it could be
toxins, so do take the board out of the water and only use plain pine
in the water. you dont have any yew trees or bushes around do you?
yew is extremely toxic, sometimes the berries drop into the water.

the other think it might be is infection of egg bound female fish. you
would need to do a necropsy and see if the egg sacks are yellow... any
color but clear/white.
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/d...e/gf_anat.html
Ingrid




On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:24:08 +0100, "Carole"
wrote:
I have a mature pond about 8 years old, 800 gallons, about 50 goldfish
ranging from tiny tiddlers to about 5" long, plus one really big ghost koi
about 18" long. I have all the usual filtration, waterfall and oxygenating
plants, UV light, water is nice and clean and clear and always has been. I
feed the fish about every couple of days - if they get too much they get
frisky.

Big problem - In the last week I've found 3 of the larger goldfish just
floating dead in the water. They have no signs of any disease and look
perfectly OK, just dead.

Well, I'm surprised you bothered replying to a call for help - your manner
is hostileand arrogant - not what I would call helpful. You may be an
'expert' on ponds, but clearly that's about all you've got going for you.
American I suspect ?

Once you've finished your ego-trip, and if you care to continue this
dialogue (which I doubt), I can tell you the following :

Here in the UK the term 'tiddler' is extremely common - it refers to
anything very small (ie 'tiddly'). Not a big issue really is it ?

I have pond test kits and use them regularly - recent tests (a couple of
weeks ago gave the following results :
- Ammonia less than 0.1 - no problem
- Nitrate zero - no problem
- PH 8.5 - acceptable.

The 'usual' filtering system comprises two large drums containing filter
brushes and 'foam' pads - these are cleaned 2-3 times a year. I assume you
know what a UV light is ? There is a drain/filter at the bottom of the pond
which takes out the water and feeds it through the filter system and back up
into a small top pond, over a small waterfall, and back into the main pond.
Pretty usual I would say.

Many of your other questions I have already provided information for, such
as feeding, timescale for the deaths, condition at death.
I top up the pond every few weeks, as and when needed due to evaporation,
from a tap and use a water conditioner at the same time. Nothing has been
added to the pond for as long as I can remember apart from the wood I
mentioned (which obviously I immediately removed - I'd be stupid otherwise
wouldn't I ? and I'm not)

Further (courteous and constructive) assistance would be appreciated, but
don't bother if it's too much trouble for you.

Carole

"A. Paul. Ing" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:24:08 +0100, "Carole"
wrote:

Hi all,
I have a mature pond about 8 years old, 800 gallons, about 50 goldfish
ranging from tiny tiddlers to about 5" long, plus one really big ghost
koi
about 18" long. I have all the usual filtration, waterfall and
oxygenating
plants, UV light, water is nice and clean and clear and always has
been. I
feed the fish about every couple of days - if they get too much they
get
frisky

Just what the hell is a dam "Tiddler"
Clean clean water does not dictate water quality by any means..
Care to expalin what "usual" filtraton is........

Big problem - In the last week I've found 3 of the larger goldfish
just
floating dead in the water. They have no signs of any disease and
look
perfectly OK, just dead.
So looking perfectly OK...dead is normal for you?

This is very distressing as I'm spending every
moment checking the pond and expecting all my little friends to die.
By checking the pind are you putting your eyeballs on the fish to see
if any more die or are you doing wtaer parameters and making
ajustments. Checking the pond is a word that is useless useless unless
you state WHAT your doing.....
I put
some medifin in the pond a couple of days ago (I treat it twice a year
normally - Spring and Autumn), but I've had another death since then.


So are you know to arbitrarily shot gun treat fish just so you can say
you did somehtiung rather than finding out what specifically is wrong
and adjust accordingly? Sounds that way. Why add a med type supplement
when perhaps all they mneed is better water conditions Get a test
kit and use it.

The only thing that's changed recently (don't know if it could
possibly be
the reason) - I recently netted the pond because we were visited by a
heron,
then I realised that the frogs and newts couldn't get in and out so I
put a
length of wood into the water from the side. the wood is sapele (sp?)
and
is definitely untreated, but I know some hardwoods have funny
substances in
them - do you think this might have poisoned the water ?? What shall I
do ?
Please get back to me soon - I'm desperate to save them


I doubt the heron or the newt has a thing to do with the problem, nr
the wood, but it would propbably be prudent in your case to remove
wood............but applicable test kits and post results. Other than
that yu may as well continue using your medfin since its only a shot
in the dark and continue your quest to watch the pond instead of
correct what more thanlikely is a water parameter (quality)
problem.....
Thanks, Carole

1. What are the Symptoms, how do the fish act now, have you any guess
as to the disease?



2. Which fish show symptoms, no symptoms and which fish already died?



3. How and when did the symptoms start?



4. How old are the sick fish?



5. Were new fish added, what date, where did they come from?



6. Were they quarantined, by whom& how long?



7. Have you changed a lot of water (more than 1/2), treated a disease
or added rocks or plants recently?



8.Your Pond is:

How old, how many gallons, what size: width, length depth, what
filter, how big, How many fish, number and size.


9.When was the last time you topped off the pond, changed out water,
cleaned your filter.



10. What kind of water are you using: Well, City, Rain or chemically
treated water.



11.Have you used any chemicals, paints, sprays or has there been
construction near the pond.



12.Have you tested your water. Which test kit did you use. What has
been the water temperature in the last week?

PH=

Ammonia=

Nitrite=

Nitrate=

Phosphate=

Oxygen=

Hardness=

Carbon dioxide=

Copper=

Iron=

Lead=



13.What brand of food are you feeding, how much and how many times a
day? Any supplemental food i.e. Oranges, Bread, Cheerios etc.. How
much. Who feeds the fish?



14. Have you added any Medicines (Including Salt) to the pond in the
last month---what kind?

Thanks for this Ingrid,
I'd be surprised if it was an oxygen problem - temperatures here in the UK
are low for June - and we've had torrential rain for most of the month. I
have a waterfall, and loads of oxygenating plants to keep the oxygen level
up. But I agree, it's strange that it's the bigger fish that have died (I
would guess they're about 5 years old). I assume that is there was a
'poison' problem the little ones would have gone first.
Now I think of it - I found all the bodies next to the piece of wood, but
assumed they had been washed there because the input flow is at the opposite
end. Maybe the larger fish had been nibbling at the wood and it had
something in it which killed them, rather than my initial thought that maybe
the wood had leached something out.

Well I've removed the wood now, so I can only wait and see.
Thanks for your reply.

wrote in message
. com...
the key is "the larger" fish died. this is almost always a sign of
problems with enough oxygen. oxygen problems occur as water temps
increase. they die in the early morning hours. at any time you see
fish at the surface "piping".
otherwise, it could be a disease attacking the gills. it could be
toxins, so do take the board out of the water and only use plain pine
in the water. you dont have any yew trees or bushes around do you?
yew is extremely toxic, sometimes the berries drop into the water.

the other think it might be is infection of egg bound female fish. you
would need to do a necropsy and see if the egg sacks are yellow... any
color but clear/white.
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/d...e/gf_anat.html
Ingrid




On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:24:08 +0100, "Carole"
wrote:
I have a mature pond about 8 years old, 800 gallons, about 50 goldfish
ranging from tiny tiddlers to about 5" long, plus one really big ghost koi
about 18" long. I have all the usual filtration, waterfall and
oxygenating
plants, UV light, water is nice and clean and clear and always has been. I
feed the fish about every couple of days - if they get too much they get
frisky.

Big problem - In the last week I've found 3 of the larger goldfish just
floating dead in the water. They have no signs of any disease and look
perfectly OK, just dead.

Hi Carole,

I have all the usual filtration, waterfall and
oxygenating plants, UV light

No air stones? Plants will not be enough.

I feed the fish about every couple of days - if they
get too much they get frisky.

That Ghost will be eating the little ones if you don't feed it more
often! I had 4 Ghosties of that size once ... When they were hungry
they'd try and eat the paving slabs around the edge of the pond!

Big problem - In the last week I've found 3 of the larger goldfish
just floating dead in the water.

Are the other fish gasping at the surface? I'd be running a KA25 with
that level of stock.

I put some medifin in the pond a couple of days ago
(I treat it twice a year normally - Spring and Autumn),

Reasonable enough, but if the fish don't look distressed or diseased, I
wouldn't bother. I used to treat with Medifin like you are, but I haven't
bothered for a few years as it simply wasn't necessary.

The only thing that's changed recently (don't know if it could
possibly be the reason) - I recently netted the pond because we were
visited by a heron

The old "fishing line tied around canes" trick works best!

hardwoods have funny substances in them - do you think this might have
poisoned the water ??

I doubt it. Given the amount of crap that ends up in my pond (leaves,
branches, mice, hedgehogs, dead frogs ...) and that I've not had problems
would suggest not.

What shall I do ?

Buy an air pump, some tubing, a few airstones, and see what happens.
Certainly won't cause any harm.

Also, talk to your local aquatic centre people and ask if they've had
similar problems reported from customers.

Cheers,

Al.

"Carole" wrote in message
...
Hi all,
I have a mature pond about 8 years old, 800 gallons, about 50 goldfish
ranging from tiny tiddlers to about 5" long, plus one really big ghost koi
about 18" long......... brevity snips
===============================
It's my opinion you have way too many fish in your 800g pond. You're
stocked like a dealer. Goldfish and koi are both big eaters and pass a lot
of feces - unless you cruelly starve them. Mine are fed twice a day and are
indeed frisky as healthy fish should be. Then you have a large koi also! I
hope you're doing at least bi-weekly good size partial water changes on your
small pond, using dechlorinating product.

As Roy said, it's not good to medicate if you have no idea what you're
medicating them for. It just adds more pollution to the water than the fish
already do.
--
RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

rain dissolves a lot of CO2, which becomes a mild acid. it is usually
pretty warm and there isnt much O2 in the rain water. oxygenating
plants give oxygen during the day and use it up at night.
big fish going first is a problem with getting enough oxygen, either
in the water, or attack on the gills by toxic water or parasites.
Ingrid

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 16:29:41 +0100, "Carole"
wrote:

Thanks for this Ingrid,
I'd be surprised if it was an oxygen problem - temperatures here in the UK
are low for June - and we've had torrential rain for most of the month. I
have a waterfall, and loads of oxygenating plants to keep the oxygen level
up. But I agree, it's strange that it's the bigger fish that have died (I
would guess they're about 5 years old). I assume that is there was a
'poison' problem the little ones would have gone first.
Now I think of it - I found all the bodies next to the piece of wood, but
assumed they had been washed there because the input flow is at the opposite
end. Maybe the larger fish had been nibbling at the wood and it had
something in it which killed them, rather than my initial thought that maybe
the wood had leached something out.

Well I've removed the wood now, so I can only wait and see.
Thanks for your reply.

wrote in message
.com...
the key is "the larger" fish died. this is almost always a sign of
problems with enough oxygen. oxygen problems occur as water temps
increase. they die in the early morning hours. at any time you see
fish at the surface "piping".
otherwise, it could be a disease attacking the gills. it could be
toxins, so do take the board out of the water and only use plain pine
in the water. you dont have any yew trees or bushes around do you?
yew is extremely toxic, sometimes the berries drop into the water.

the other think it might be is infection of egg bound female fish. you
would need to do a necropsy and see if the egg sacks are yellow... any
color but clear/white.
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/d...e/gf_anat.html
Ingrid




On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:24:08 +0100, "Carole"
wrote:
I have a mature pond about 8 years old, 800 gallons, about 50 goldfish
ranging from tiny tiddlers to about 5" long, plus one really big ghost koi
about 18" long. I have all the usual filtration, waterfall and
oxygenating
plants, UV light, water is nice and clean and clear and always has been. I
feed the fish about every couple of days - if they get too much they get
frisky.

Big problem - In the last week I've found 3 of the larger goldfish just
floating dead in the water. They have no signs of any disease and look
perfectly OK, just dead.