Hi all,
I have a mature pond about 8 years old, 800 gallons, about 50 goldfish
ranging from tiny tiddlers to about 5" long, plus one really big ghost koi
about 18" long. I have all the usual filtration (comprises two large drums
containing filter
brushes and 'foam' pads - these are cleaned 2-3 times a year), waterfall and
oxygenating
plants, UV light, water is nice and clean and clear and always has been.

There is a drain/filter at the bottom of the pond
which takes out the water and feeds it through the filter system and back up
into a small top pond, over a small waterfall, and back into the main pond.
I feed the fish about every couple of days - if they get too much they get
frisky. I top up the pond every few weeks, as and when needed due to
evaporation,
from a tap and use a water conditioner at the same time.


Big problem - In the last week I've found 3 of the larger goldfish just
floating dead in the water. They have no signs of any disease and look
perfectly OK otherwise, just dead. This is very distressing as I'm
spending every
moment checking the pond and expecting all my little friends to die. I put
some medifin in the pond a couple of days ago (I treat it twice a year
normally - Spring and Autumn), but I've had another death since then.

The only thing that's changed recently (don't know if it could possibly be
the reason) - I recently netted the pond because we were visited by a heron,
then I realised that the frogs and newts couldn't get in and out so I put a
length of wood into the water from the side. The wood is sapele (sp?) and
is definitely untreated, but I know some hardwoods have funny substances in
them - do you think this might have poisoned the water ??

I've removed the wood now of course.



I have pond test kits and use them regularly - recent tests (a couple of
weeks ago) gave the following results :
- Ammonia less than 0.1 - no problem
- Nitrate zero - no problem
- PH 8.5 - acceptable.

Thanks for any help, Carole

Hi Carole,
Glad you found us!
Is a much nicer place to ponder pond problems here :-)

I was wondering if you could add something plastic to
help out the newts and frogs (am a critter ponder). I've
also used branches from cherry trees and they worked
for me. You can see them in the picture labeled frog
hunting in my slide show.

k :-)
http://tinyurl.com/6bguh ~ new pond keeper info
http://tinyurl.com/yp64db ~ slide show of pond

Yes - unfortunately I found the 'other' group first - but thankfully someone
called Jim sent me an e-mail diverting me here.

Some sort of branch sounds a good option - although I guess they could
contain sap or something else unsafe ? Don't really want to go the plastic
route as it would look so tacky - even though this is my ornamental pond I
want it to look as natural as possible
Mind you - my greatest concern is for the fish and wildlife, so if necessary
that's what I'll do.

You might be interested to know that I have another pond down in the valley
in my garden (I have an acre of rural garden in Wiltshire UK) - it's a huge
wildlife pond in a natural water meadow. It's not lined with anything -
it's fed from an underground spring,and I've constructed a small damn, so it
overflows along a pebble bed and then into a stream which runs through the
garden. It's a magnet for wildlife of course .
The only unfortunate thing is that most of the year it's a complete sea of
green - 100% DUCKWEED !!!!! Any tips to get rid of that will make me a
friend for life. :-))))

"k" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Carole,
Glad you found us!
Is a much nicer place to ponder pond problems here :-)

I was wondering if you could add something plastic to
help out the newts and frogs (am a critter ponder). I've
also used branches from cherry trees and they worked
for me. You can see them in the picture labeled frog
hunting in my slide show.

k :-)
http://tinyurl.com/6bguh ~ new pond keeper info
http://tinyurl.com/yp64db ~ slide show of pond

Oooooo, love natural and wildlife ponds...

I went googling (one of my few vices...) and
found this really good discussion about duckweed
and UK solutions ~
http://tinyurl.com/2w4bk5

k :-)

"Carole (UK)" wrote:

The only unfortunate thing is that most of the year it's a complete sea of
green - 100% DUCKWEED !!!!! Any tips to get rid of that will make me a
friend for life. :-))))

Put in some Koi, they will eat it all up!

San Diego Joe
4,000 - 5,000 Gallons.
Koi, Goldfish, and RES named Colombo.

Well...I have stocked this pond 3 times with fish and lost every one of them
to the Heron...the little (big!!) devil sits on top of my greenhouse and
swoops down for a huge meal...so, I'm afraid stocking it with fish is not an
option :-((((

That's why I created another smaller pond for fish right next to the
house...no heron visitations for many years, but this year he/she
came.....now the top pond is netted

It seems from the info available that the only death blow to duckweed is a
very severe cold snap, but with global warming we just don't get it any
more....aaah well......guess there are more important things in life (wonder
how many people have starved to death while we've been having this
discussion about our ponds.......)

"San Diego Joe" wrote in message
...
"Carole (UK)" wrote:

The only unfortunate thing is that most of the year it's a complete sea
of
green - 100% DUCKWEED !!!!! Any tips to get rid of that will make me a
friend for life. :-))))

Put in some Koi, they will eat it all up!

San Diego Joe
4,000 - 5,000 Gallons.
Koi, Goldfish, and RES named Colombo.

Duckweed seems to be one of those things that
have both good, and bad, advantages. Ducks
like it...
I have it, and azola, growing in one of my little
ponds on the deck. It shades the taddies I have
in there and provides places for other critters
to hang out. That little pond will
freeze solid and the stuff still shows up the next
year. I am impressed.
Like most ornamental ponders it never lasts
in the small garden ponds if koi are around.
I will have to investigate the large farm pond on
the family farm when I get up there this year. They
have geese, both farm geese and Canada geese,
so that might take care of any duckweed that
shows up. Maybe you could hire some geese?
They make great guard dogs... :-))

k

And here I sit, thinking how lucky you are. With the fish and the RES,
duckweed doesn't last a week in my pond.
Gabrielle

k wrote:

Duckweed seems to be one of those things that
have both good, and bad, advantages. Ducks
like it...
I have it, and azola, growing in one of my little
ponds on the deck. It shades the taddies I have
in there and provides places for other critters
to hang out. That little pond will
freeze solid and the stuff still shows up the next
year. I am impressed.
Like most ornamental ponders it never lasts
in the small garden ponds if koi are around.
I will have to investigate the large farm pond on
the family farm when I get up there this year. They
have geese, both farm geese and Canada geese,
so that might take care of any duckweed that
shows up. Maybe you could hire some geese?
They make great guard dogs... :-))

k

Geese ! - the resident fox would thank me for that tasty meal ! and if
he/she didn't get them my 4 cats would have a go(and probably come out worst
of course)
I don't mind the weed at all actually, it looks rather pretty, and it's a
very natural pond intended for wildlife and critters, so it's doing it's
job.

"k" wrote in message
oups.com...
Duckweed seems to be one of those things that
have both good, and bad, advantages. Ducks
like it...
I have it, and azola, growing in one of my little
ponds on the deck. It shades the taddies I have
in there and provides places for other critters
to hang out. That little pond will
freeze solid and the stuff still shows up the next
year. I am impressed.
Like most ornamental ponders it never lasts
in the small garden ponds if koi are around.
I will have to investigate the large farm pond on
the family farm when I get up there this year. They
have geese, both farm geese and Canada geese,
so that might take care of any duckweed that
shows up. Maybe you could hire some geese?
They make great guard dogs... :-))

k

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:11:11 CST, "Carole"
wrote:

Big problem - In the last week I've found 3 of the larger goldfish just
floating dead in the water. They have no signs of any disease and look
perfectly OK otherwise, just dead. This is very distressing as I'm
spending every
moment checking the pond and expecting all my little friends to die. I put
some medifin in the pond a couple of days ago (I treat it twice a year
normally - Spring and Autumn), but I've had another death since then.

I converted a hot tub to goldfish pond this year and had a similar
experience. I did notice as I was inspecting the dead fish the gills
were dull red/purple and thought perhaps it was parasites. I used
Anchors Away (dimlin) and in a few days the fish began moving around
more and I haven't lost another fish since. I'm not good at figuring
out what makes them die, goldfish just die, but this is not the first
time I've improved the goldfish's life with parasite treatment.

Another factor in my guessing parasites is that I can't keep birds out
of the pond. (Not predators, just songbirds.) They aren't satisfied
to drink and leave they have to bathe, drop and invite all their
friends to share the water they just crapped in.

The only thing that's changed recently (don't know if it could possibly be
the reason) - I recently netted the pond because we were visited by a heron,
then I realised that the frogs and newts couldn't get in and out so I put a
length of wood into the water from the side. The wood is sapele (sp?) and
is definitely untreated, but I know some hardwoods have funny substances in
them - do you think this might have poisoned the water ??

I'm not familiar with the type wood you are using, but I doubt it has
any noticeable effect on the fish. Some purists make strong claims
about everything from treated wood to roofing liner and I've yet seen
the proof of such claims in my pond. I use pressure treated wood in
my filters as frames and some of it has been in place so long I'll
soon have to replace it. I'd look for parasites or disease as the
reason for the fish dying. I'll bet you don't have a microscope to
view scrapings either, so I'd make the best guess and press on like
most of us do.

Regards,

Hal

I sent this last night, but I don't know where it went????

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:11:11 CST, "Carole"
wrote:

Hi all,
I have a mature pond about 8 years old, 800 gallons, about 50 goldfish
ranging from tiny tiddlers to about 5" long, plus one really big ghost koi
about 18" long. I have all the usual filtration (comprises two large drums
containing filter
brushes and 'foam' pads - these are cleaned 2-3 times a year), waterfall and
oxygenating
plants, UV light, water is nice and clean and clear and always has been.

There is a drain/filter at the bottom of the pond
which takes out the water and feeds it through the filter system and back up
into a small top pond, over a small waterfall, and back into the main pond.
I feed the fish about every couple of days - if they get too much they get
frisky. I top up the pond every few weeks, as and when needed due to
evaporation,
from a tap and use a water conditioner at the same time.


Big problem - In the last week I've found 3 of the larger goldfish just
floating dead in the water. They have no signs of any disease and look
perfectly OK otherwise, just dead. This is very distressing as I'm
spending every
moment checking the pond and expecting all my little friends to die. I put
some medifin in the pond a couple of days ago (I treat it twice a year
normally - Spring and Autumn), but I've had another death since then.

The only thing that's changed recently (don't know if it could possibly be
the reason) - I recently netted the pond because we were visited by a heron,
then I realised that the frogs and newts couldn't get in and out so I put a
length of wood into the water from the side. The wood is sapele (sp?) and
is definitely untreated, but I know some hardwoods have funny substances in
them - do you think this might have poisoned the water ??

I've removed the wood now of course.

I have pond test kits and use them regularly - recent tests (a couple of
weeks ago) gave the following results :
- Ammonia less than 0.1 - no problem
- Nitrate zero - no problem
- PH 8.5 - acceptable.

Thanks for any help, Carole

Hi Carole,

Usually when it is the biggest fish dying there is an O2 problem.

If that isn't the case.... your above numbers tell me the Ammonia could be
have fried their gills so they aren't getting enough O2. The higher the pH
the worst any ammonia in the water is.

I highly recommend reducing your fish load.... but since you mentioned
something about sapele, I googled for it, and it is a toxic wood. It can
cause irritation, dermatitis and respiratory problems in people. Imagine
what it would do to a fishes gills and slime coat.

Thus, water changes, 25% every day, for 6 days.

As far as a climb out for the critters, go to a fish store and look at real
or fake drift wood for aquariums. HTHs, ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

dark red/purple gills are either parasites, but most likely toxic
water conditions.
dimilin treats only lice or anchor worms. it would be easy to see
those with the naked eye.

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 11:39:23 CST, Hal wrote:
as I was inspecting the dead fish the gillswere dull red/purple and
thought perhaps it was parasites. I used
Anchors Away (dimlin)

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:01:37 CST, wrote:

dark red/purple gills are either parasites, but most likely toxic
water conditions.
dimilin treats only lice or anchor worms. it would be easy to see
those with the naked eye.

The original poster, Carol, (From UK.) may have a different problem
and if I gave you bad information, I'm sorry. Your situation sounded
similar to mine, but I check water parameters and consider good water
parameters a given.

I've seen anchor worms, but I couldn't see any parasites when I looked
at the dead fish recently. I just did the water change and added the
second recommended dose of dimlin yesterday and the fish are
apparently feeling better since they come to the top more frequently
than before the dimlin treatment began.

Since I'm not seeing another problem your comments make me think I
should look closer, but my pH= 7.8, Ammonia= 0, NO2= 0, NO3= 0, and I
don't think checking salt, KH and GH is really applicable to my
situation, but if you have other ideas, I hope you guys know I respect
your opinion and am waiting to hear.

Regards,

Hal

Carole wrote:
Hi all,
I have a mature pond about 8 years old, 800 gallons, about 50 goldfish
ranging from tiny tiddlers to about 5" long, plus one really big ghost koi
about 18" long. I have all the usual filtration (comprises two large drums
containing filter
brushes and 'foam' pads - these are cleaned 2-3 times a year), waterfall and
oxygenating
plants, UV light, water is nice and clean and clear and always has been.

There is a drain/filter at the bottom of the pond
which takes out the water and feeds it through the filter system and back up
into a small top pond, over a small waterfall, and back into the main pond.
I feed the fish about every couple of days - if they get too much they get
frisky. I top up the pond every few weeks, as and when needed due to
evaporation,
from a tap and use a water conditioner at the same time.


Big problem - In the last week I've found 3 of the larger goldfish just
floating dead in the water. They have no signs of any disease and look
perfectly OK otherwise, just dead. This is very distressing as I'm
spending every
moment checking the pond and expecting all my little friends to die. I put
some medifin in the pond a couple of days ago (I treat it twice a year
normally - Spring and Autumn), but I've had another death since then.

The only thing that's changed recently (don't know if it could possibly be
the reason) - I recently netted the pond because we were visited by a heron,
then I realised that the frogs and newts couldn't get in and out so I put a
length of wood into the water from the side.

Well, I put up a frame and netted my whole pond! The frame is set up
5 feet from the pond, so the frogs and newts could get out - although
I only have one large bull frog!


The wood is sapele (sp?) and
is definitely untreated, but I know some hardwoods have funny substances in
them - do you think this might have poisoned the water ??

I've removed the wood now of course.



I have pond test kits and use them regularly - recent tests (a couple of
weeks ago) gave the following results :
- Ammonia less than 0.1 - no problem

Amazing with all the fish you have!

- Nitrate zero - no problem

Nitrites is what should be tested for in fresh water ponds! That can
get to toxic levels


- PH 8.5 - acceptable.

Wow! I would say the highest you should go is 7.6! How does the PH
very all day long! That should tell you something!
----------------

Oxygen level should be measured. You could have a high organic load
with all those fish you have in 800 gallons!



Thanks for any help, Carole

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 13:56:29 CST, Hal wrote:

Since I'm not seeing another problem your comments make me think I
should look closer, but my pH= 7.8, Ammonia= 0, NO2= 0, NO3= 0, and I
don't think checking salt, KH and GH is really applicable to my
situation, but if you have other ideas, I hope you guys know I respect
your opinion and am waiting to hear.
Hal

This is just a fyi....

KH (buffering) is actually more important than pH, since fish can handle pH
of 6.5-8.5 (probably even slightly higher or lower), but if the pH is
swinging due to low buffering, you can have serious problems. Not only are
all those things hard on the fish, but even the bacteria, in the filter on
pond surfaces, etc., processing the waste do not work as effectively.

Latest info is leave the pH alone, keep the buffering solid. The bad thing
about a high pH is it can make plants fail to thrive. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us