so far I am cringing looking at my "new" pond, waiting for the big algae
bloom, so far, not too bad,, getting kinda gloomy,,,, but not horrid.
from all I have read, plants etc are the best way to stop all this.... BUT
when you are in the colder zones,, & plant places say they won't guarantee
things till after June 1st,, what do you do? (ok, so I do have some hardies
out in the farm pond,, but to get cuttings I have to drain some water).
ALSO,, it is said when you have koi,, you do not put in plants ( as
several have agreed, on here, they just destroy them!) how are those ponds
kept clear?
I also read , it takes a few months for you bio-filter to start working ,,
uhh you have to go through this each spring?? I mean they do diebacteria
in the winter, right? speaking of, do any of you 'run' a filter in the
winter in the frozen north?? or just a pond heater or water spray??
( I also must have been really lucky on our old pond,, it always froze
over for the winter, & we still had fish ,, ok in the spring)
I also read, ONCE you have an algae problem you can never clear it up.

Whenever you think of plants and algae alway remember two things:

1. Your plant's or alage's growth is limited by the element that it needs
that is in the least supply. By element I mean nitrate, iron, boron, mag, or
anything it needs. This means that you could have all the nitrates, boron,
and mag in the world but your plants won't grow if you have no iron.
Likewise you could have all the iron in the world but without mag your
plants won't grow.

2. Plants and all the different kinds of algae you have all require
different types of elements from one another. Thus eliminating mag from your
water because algae X needs it might kill off algae X but algae C might not
care. Once algae X is gone C will likely take over. For instance in my fish
tank I had hair algae that grows on ther glass. I had this for a long time
without any other algae. I did what I needed to do to get rid of it but then
brush algae took it's place. I used to have a heavly planted tank with NO
nitrates traceable on a test kit. The plants would use them as they were
made. I also had the dreaded staghorn algae which flourish.

How do you keep your water clear? Easy, make sure all of your elements are
in the least supply as possible. Perhaps you'll get some algae but you wont
get as much as you would if your water was at 1000000PPM of nitrate. I've
also had luck in reversing the water. That means if your PH is normally
acidic at 6.5 make it basic at 8.5. If you usually have low KH add baking
soda and raise it to a high KH, etc, etc. Whatever water quality you have
reverse it. Algae tends to not fair well with quick changes. Also be careful
swinging your PH. Going from 6.5 to 8.5 might kill fish. Do it .5-1.0 per
day.

Sam



"*muffin*" wrote in message
...
so far I am cringing looking at my "new" pond, waiting for the big algae
bloom, so far, not too bad,, getting kinda gloomy,,,, but not horrid.
from all I have read, plants etc are the best way to stop all this....
BUT
when you are in the colder zones,, & plant places say they won't guarantee
things till after June 1st,, what do you do? (ok, so I do have some
hardies
out in the farm pond,, but to get cuttings I have to drain some water).
ALSO,, it is said when you have koi,, you do not put in plants ( as
several have agreed, on here, they just destroy them!) how are those ponds
kept clear?
I also read , it takes a few months for you bio-filter to start working
,,
uhh you have to go through this each spring?? I mean they do
diebacteria
in the winter, right? speaking of, do any of you 'run' a filter in the
winter in the frozen north?? or just a pond heater or water spray??
( I also must have been really lucky on our old pond,, it always froze
over for the winter, & we still had fish ,, ok in the spring)
I also read, ONCE you have an algae problem you can never clear it up.

*muffin* wrote:
so far I am cringing looking at my "new" pond, waiting for the big algae
bloom, so far, not too bad,, getting kinda gloomy,,,, but not horrid.
from all I have read, plants etc are the best way to stop all this.... BUT
when you are in the colder zones,, & plant places say they won't guarantee
things till after June 1st,, what do you do? (ok, so I do have some hardies
out in the farm pond,, but to get cuttings I have to drain some water).
ALSO,, it is said when you have koi,, you do not put in plants ( as
several have agreed, on here, they just destroy them!) how are those ponds
kept clear?

Mine is kept clear with a veggie filter and BZT. Water
celery in the veggie filter works great. It starts growing
earlier than most other plants and is going well when it is
time to start feeding the fish.

I also read , it takes a few months for you bio-filter to start working ,,
uhh you have to go through this each spring?? I mean they do diebacteria
in the winter, right? speaking of, do any of you 'run' a filter in the
winter in the frozen north?? or just a pond heater or water spray??

Yes the bacteria die and we use BZT to get them started
early. I don't sell the stuff, but I do use it and think
it's great.

( I also must have been really lucky on our old pond,, it always froze
over for the winter, & we still had fish ,, ok in the spring)
I also read, ONCE you have an algae problem you can never clear it up.

Plants will take care of algae if you have enough. All
ponds must go through
a cycle and algae is part of it!

--
Bonnie
NJ
http://home.earthlink.net/~maebe43/

I have koi 12" ones and they don't bother my plants any. They might
nibble on the floaters roots but not so much as to do any major damage.
I do put large river rock on top on pots. I have heard this also I guess
I got polite koi.


http://community.webtv.net/rebeljoe/POND

Random thoughts on algae.
Algae is essential to life.
Mother Nature has designed things so you can not have a pond without it.
There is algae in the artic, this is tough stuff.
So you have to work with nature not against it.
(Just like with hurricanes, thunder storms and tornadoes - we can't control
them... though algae can mess with the ponder at almost the same scale ;-)
Mother Nature designs her ponds to be full of water and plants but she never
stocks them as highly as ponders do. She encourages predators and never feeds
her fish. She lets algae come and go at its own pace.
Our lined and ornamental ponds are can never be natural but we can try. Most
pond problems are caused by way too many nutrients in the water and way too
many fish making way too many nutrients....
Big plants help a lot in managing those nutrients.
And so does getting rid of too many fish.
A veggie filter full of water hyacinths does the trick for me.
Those things will get about three feet tall over the summer!


k30a

On 22 May 2003 14:49:20 GMT, ESPMER (K30a) wrote:

Random thoughts on algae.

K30, this would be a great time to throw in your algae tips.

Koi & Plants. IME, the key element to having both is plant heavily, buy
small koi and preferably the butterfly type. Though I do have some Japanese
short fin koi, I've also gotten rid of a few of that type over the years
due to plant destruction. Only one butterfly has been removed, it went to
K30's pond and now behaves itself.... or did he go in the fish round up
last year?

Plants that I've found work well with destructive koi are those with a
strong stalk, swamp hibiscus, cannas, thick cattails, etc. Though one may
have grow these out of the pond till their stocks are thick enough. Many do
come up early enough that while their vegetation is tender the temps are
still cool enough to keep the koi fairly docile.

I tend to do a better job of plant rotation in my koi ponds than I do in my
veggie garden. Last fall when I took the tropicals out I put in over half a
dozen pots of iris I'd divided from my original plants. These divides had
been kept in a kiddy pool during the summer. I'm hoping by the time their
blooms are spent the tropicals will be ready to go in and the iris can be
sold or held over to go in the pond again for winter and spring of next
year. ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

jj wrote K30, this would be a great time to throw in your algae tips.

Here is the everything and the kitchen sink version......


:-) no more green water :-)


This page was put together from the many suggestions of ponders who post at the
newsgroup REC.PONDS


To achieve clear water, instead of pea soup green water, in your pond you
should:

~ Realize that algae is tough! It exists in extreme conditions, like ice, just
fine. It has many, many different
forms. It even has a home page! http://www.nmnh.si.edu/botany/projects/algae/
And, finally, without algae we wouldn't
be here so we should treat it with a little respect ;-)

~ Learn as much as you can about the natural balance of a pond and realizing
that new ponds must go through
a growth period which usually means green water before balance occurs.

~ Mother Nature designs pond to have few fish, many plants and subtraction and
addition of new water from time to time.
She lets the fish find food on their own, lets the fish fertilize the plants,
encourages predators and lets the plants run rampant.
She never cleans her ponds out unless she sends a flood. If things really get
out of control she throws up her hands and lets the chips fall where they may -
lets the pond fill in, turn emerald green, flood it out, earthquakes,
hurricanes, record snowfall, elections too close to call - whatever...

~We pondkeepers stuff in lots of pretty fish, spoil them rotten with tasty fish
chow, over fertilize our plants and do everything possible to discourage
predators.

~Plan on 20 gallons of water per goldfish and 100 gallons of water per koi and
as many plants as you can stuff in.

~ Do not use chemicals, killing algae just makes lots of suddenly dead algae,
rotting algae robs the pond of oxygen and makes more stuff for the new algae to
feed on (unless you have a bottom drain to get it out).

~ Do not worry about green fuzzy algae on the side of the pond, that is good
algae and helps balance your pond.

~ Ignore a little string algae.

~ Install bottom drains and skimmers for ease of removing sludge and debris.

~ Net the pond during the fall to keep leaves out of the pond.

~ Trim dead growth from the plants and removing floating tropicals if you live
in colder climates.

~ Lower your fish stocking, not over feeding fish - algae loves fish waste
(lots of yummy phosphorous)

~ Add lots plants of any type, marginal plants such as reeds, cattails, iris,
pickerel weed, arrowhead, floaters such as water hyacinth, water lettuce and
lots of underwater plants such as anacharis uses the nutrients up that the
algae would like.

~ Shade - lilies, the floaters (water hyacinth and water lettuce) and
artificial shade - shade cloth, umbrella, arch or trellis planted with vines,
No sun for the algae.

~ Clean up debris from the bottom of the pond and
stock snails to chew up the debris - less decaying stuff for algae food.

~ Cut back or stop fertilizing plants - same principle.

~ Plant in fine gravel and top with larger rocks if you have koi.

~ Mechanical filtration of the fish waste - usually a settling chamber in your
filter, or the first row of brushs, filter media.

~ Biological filtration - more than you think you need as your fish are going
to grow and you will probably add more fish to your pond via purchase or your
fish breeding in the pond. (This does not help with the algae problem but
contributes to the overall health of your fish and any critters.

~ Construct a veggie filter - an area, 10% to 20%, of the size of your pond
surface area. A couple of inches deeper than the plant baskets (the rigid black
mesh baskets made specifically for water plants) you are going to use to plant
in. Plant the baskets with marginal plants with fine gravel. Pump the pond
water through at a turnover rate per hour 1/2 to 1/4 of the pond volume. Veggie
filter uses up many of the nutrients and provides a good place for bacteria to
grow. Build it with a bottom drain (or two) for ease of cleaning - very
important or you'll end up with backups and leaking over the edge. Go here to
read a great description about how to build one
http://hometown.aol.com/k30a/myhomepage/garden.html
or
A veggie filter can be as simple as floating water hyacinth at the top of your
stock tank filter. Mine get to be almost three feet tall with leaves as big as
my hand.

~ Purchase sludge eating product - concentrated bacteria culture.

~ Some folks love their UV sterilizer. Does cost some $. And you have to change
the bulb every year.

~ Add a bale of barley straw to your pond for string algae. Read this webpage
http://hometown.aol.com/rosiedawg/my...ollection.html

~Phosphate Remover - It comes in a large clear container (maybe about gallon
sized) but it's also available in a smaller quart sized carton. It's usually
near the aquatic plant fertilizers and different chemicals available such as
ammonia remover and such.
You measure out the amount suitable for your pond size, place it in a mesh
bag, and first soak it in a pail before you put it in your filter. You need to
soak it because it gives off heat when it first gets wet.

~ Read this web page for interesting theroy on the life and times of algae
http://www.koiclubsandiego.org/GRENH2O.html

~ Make sacrifices to the Pond Goddess.
Run to your nearest garden center and buy a gazing ball,
a dragonfly garden stake and bullfrog spitter.
Place around your pond and ask humbly for clear water.

~ Patience, patience and eternal optimism.


k30a

Me, too, Joe.... I have 4 koi that are all over 12" long, and they don't
ever intentionally bother the plants. They knock a few around during
spawning, but nothing that can't be corrected. Guess I, too, have polite
fish.
Sue


"REBEL JOE" wrote in message
...
I have koi 12" ones and they don't bother my plants any. They might
nibble on the floaters roots but not so much as to do any major damage.
I do put large river rock on top on pots. I have heard this also I guess
I got polite koi.


http://community.webtv.net/rebeljoe/POND

Is the water celery the stuff you suppose to find in grocery stores? I have
looked and looked here but don't see any.

--
Priss
http://priss31.tripod.com/SmallPond.html




"Bonnie Espenshade" wrote in message
...
*muffin* wrote:
so far I am cringing looking at my "new" pond, waiting for the big algae
bloom, so far, not too bad,, getting kinda gloomy,,,, but not horrid.
from all I have read, plants etc are the best way to stop all this....
BUT
when you are in the colder zones,, & plant places say they won't
guarantee
things till after June 1st,, what do you do? (ok, so I do have some
hardies
out in the farm pond,, but to get cuttings I have to drain some water).
ALSO,, it is said when you have koi,, you do not put in plants ( as
several have agreed, on here, they just destroy them!) how are those
ponds
kept clear?

Mine is kept clear with a veggie filter and BZT. Water
celery in the veggie filter works great. It starts growing
earlier than most other plants and is going well when it is
time to start feeding the fish.

I also read , it takes a few months for you bio-filter to start
working ,,
uhh you have to go through this each spring?? I mean they do
diebacteria
in the winter, right? speaking of, do any of you 'run' a filter in the
winter in the frozen north?? or just a pond heater or water spray??

Yes the bacteria die and we use BZT to get them started
early. I don't sell the stuff, but I do use it and think
it's great.

( I also must have been really lucky on our old pond,, it always
froze
over for the winter, & we still had fish ,, ok in the spring)
I also read, ONCE you have an algae problem you can never clear it up.

Plants will take care of algae if you have enough. All
ponds must go through
a cycle and algae is part of it!

--
Bonnie
NJ
http://home.earthlink.net/~maebe43/

I never had too much trouble with koi bothering the hardy lilies but forget
the tropicals. Once they discover the tubers on them, they will never leave
them alone. They love eating those tubers. Mine have moved huge rocks on
top of the baskets to get these tubers.

S.

"Sue Alexandre" wrote in message
news
Me, too, Joe.... I have 4 koi that are all over 12" long, and they don't
ever intentionally bother the plants. They knock a few around during
spawning, but nothing that can't be corrected. Guess I, too, have polite
fish.
Sue