There are three brands that I know of that are marketed for koi. Koi Klay,
TerraPond, and Refine. All are calcium bentonites/montmorillonites. The
people that market TerraPond also have a clay capsule that they market in
the health food stores. Supposedly helps with your digestion, supplies
minerals, etc. etc. The manufacturer stated that a lot of third world
country women, particularly during pregnancy eat clay soils to get the
needed minerals.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"zookeeper" wrote in message
...
Nedra, where did you find calcium bentonite? Most bentonite I've seen
here has been sodium bentonite, and when I ask about calcium bentonite
am told there is no difference between the two.
--
zookeeper

Nedra wrote:
Hey Lee ... Is the calcium bentonite clay the same thing as
Koi Clay? I do hope so ... I just bought a bunch! ...

Hal wrote:

On Fri, 06 Jun 2003 13:50:06 -0800, David Larson
wrote:

What am I missing here????

Did you know the koi is a carp?

Yes.

Did you know the koi have teeth back in their throat for crushing things
like snail shells and other small shellfish they dig up from the bottom?

Yes.

If you knew that you knew their natural habitat is mud bottom even
though most koi keepers don't want their fish referred to as bottom
feeders, that is what they are.

Yes.

Hindsight being 20/20 I can see my question was pretty stupid.

- David

Lee Brouillet wrote:

The "mud ponds" the Japanese use are finishing ponds - where the koi go to
"finish" before a show. The "mud" is calcium bentonite clay - a very
specific type of clay. It has very high mineral content and has been proven
over the centuries to improve the color of the koi and the luster of their
skin. This particular clay has many uses, and is even sprinkled over food
here in the States as an aid to digestion. Many paste foods include a half
cup or so of bentonite clay as an ingredient. The fish are placed in the
finishing ponds for 6 months to a year, during which time they aren't seen
at all (due to the density of the mud) until the pond is drained for
harvesting. Then it's like Christmas morning!

The koi don't mind "unclear" water (green algae or mud), their owners do
GBG! We don't like feeding "lips" - all that we can see when the water is
murky. We want to see our prized finny pets, so we want clear water.
Actually, if the water was murky, it would probably save their lives, as it
would be a lot harder for predators to see them. The water can be funky (to
us), but as long as the ammonia, nitrItes, pH and DO are in line, the fish
could care less!

Wow! What a great bit of information. Thanks!

- David

As others have noted, yes: calcium bentonite is the same as Koi Clay. I'm
not sure what you mean about the rocks: the clay doesn't really change the
color of anything (except the fish, which is why it's used in the finishing
ponds!). As RTB notes below, it's also sold in health food stores as a
source of minerals for pregnant women (that seems to be a "not uncommon"
craving: eating dirt. Me - I wanted pizza!). It's also sold to absorb toxins
in your system (you can take 1 tsp of the clay, mix it in 2 oz. of water and
drink it: don't take it within 2 hrs. of other meds, or it will absorb
those, too!). And I found that it makes a nice mud mask for do-it-yourself
facials. Great stuff!

Lee


"Nedra" wrote in message
thlink.net...
Hey Lee ... Is the calcium bentonite clay the same thing as
Koi Clay? I do hope so ... I just bought a bunch! Have
only used it one week so far. I notice the rocks that have
fallen in over the years are now a deep brown. Wonder if
this is from the Koi Clay? Guess I should call the owner
VBG I also sprinkled about a tablespoon or two on the
roses.... miracle stuff! None on my food yet.

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Lee Brouillet" wrote in message
...
The "mud ponds" the Japanese use are finishing ponds - where the koi go
to
"finish" before a show. The "mud" is calcium bentonite clay - a very
specific type of clay. It has very high mineral content and has been
proven
over the centuries to improve the color of the koi and the luster of
their
skin. This particular clay has many uses, and is even sprinkled over
food
here in the States as an aid to digestion. Many paste foods include a
half
cup or so of bentonite clay as an ingredient. The fish are placed in the
finishing ponds for 6 months to a year, during which time they aren't
seen
at all (due to the density of the mud) until the pond is drained for
harvesting. Then it's like Christmas morning!

The koi don't mind "unclear" water (green algae or mud), their owners do
GBG! We don't like feeding "lips" - all that we can see when the water
is
murky. We want to see our prized finny pets, so we want clear water.
Actually, if the water was murky, it would probably save their lives, as
it
would be a lot harder for predators to see them. The water can be funky
(to
us), but as long as the ammonia, nitrItes, pH and DO are in line, the
fish
could care less!

Lee

"David Larson" wrote in message
...
Hello all,

I've read many threads about Koi needing to have crystal clean water
in
order to thrive. Then I
looked at a few websites for Koi breeders in Japan, and their Koi live
in
mud ponds and the water is
far from crystal clear. Look at these pics -

http://www.tategoi.com/oomokoi/koi%20harvest.htm

Now... these breeders have zillions of dollars (yen) invested in their
Koi, so they need them to
maintain prime health. This being the case, is it really necessary to
have
clear water for koi? Yes,
Ph, nitrates, nitrites, and such need to be correct - but it seems the
water itself does not need to
be clear.

What am I missing here????

- David

Zookeeper, try http://www.koivillage.com
The owner is Gene Winstead, and he's a real sweetheart. He has links to
other pages on his site about the clay he sells (Koi Clay) and its
specifics. Gene is the "distributor"; everyone else gets Koi Clay from him
and resells it.

Lee

"zookeeper" wrote in message
...
Nedra, where did you find calcium bentonite? Most bentonite I've seen
here has been sodium bentonite, and when I ask about calcium bentonite
am told there is no difference between the two.
--
zookeeper

Nedra wrote:
Hey Lee ... Is the calcium bentonite clay the same thing as
Koi Clay? I do hope so ... I just bought a bunch! ...

Lee ... I meant the rocks that have fallen into the pond -
used to make up the surroundings and
waterfall. If Koi Clay doesn't discolor anything then I'd better just
look elsewhere. Or have someone remove them? Grin

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Lee Brouillet" wrote in message
...
As others have noted, yes: calcium bentonite is the same as Koi Clay. I'm
not sure what you mean about the rocks: the clay doesn't really change the
color of anything (except the fish, which is why it's used in the
finishing
ponds!). As RTB notes below, it's also sold in health food stores as a
source of minerals for pregnant women (that seems to be a "not uncommon"
craving: eating dirt. Me - I wanted pizza!). It's also sold to absorb
toxins
in your system (you can take 1 tsp of the clay, mix it in 2 oz. of water
and
drink it: don't take it within 2 hrs. of other meds, or it will absorb
those, too!). And I found that it makes a nice mud mask for do-it-yourself
facials. Great stuff!

Lee


"Nedra" wrote in message
thlink.net...
Hey Lee ... Is the calcium bentonite clay the same thing as
Koi Clay? I do hope so ... I just bought a bunch! Have
only used it one week so far. I notice the rocks that have
fallen in over the years are now a deep brown. Wonder if
this is from the Koi Clay? Guess I should call the owner
VBG I also sprinkled about a tablespoon or two on the
roses.... miracle stuff! None on my food yet.

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Lee Brouillet" wrote in message
...
The "mud ponds" the Japanese use are finishing ponds - where the koi
go
to
"finish" before a show. The "mud" is calcium bentonite clay - a very
specific type of clay. It has very high mineral content and has been
proven
over the centuries to improve the color of the koi and the luster of
their
skin. This particular clay has many uses, and is even sprinkled over
food
here in the States as an aid to digestion. Many paste foods include a
half
cup or so of bentonite clay as an ingredient. The fish are placed in
the
finishing ponds for 6 months to a year, during which time they aren't
seen
at all (due to the density of the mud) until the pond is drained for
harvesting. Then it's like Christmas morning!

The koi don't mind "unclear" water (green algae or mud), their owners
do
GBG! We don't like feeding "lips" - all that we can see when the
water
is
murky. We want to see our prized finny pets, so we want clear water.
Actually, if the water was murky, it would probably save their lives,
as
it
would be a lot harder for predators to see them. The water can be
funky
(to
us), but as long as the ammonia, nitrItes, pH and DO are in line, the
fish
could care less!

Lee

"David Larson" wrote in message
...
Hello all,

I've read many threads about Koi needing to have crystal clean water
in
order to thrive. Then I
looked at a few websites for Koi breeders in Japan, and their Koi
live
in
mud ponds and the water is
far from crystal clear. Look at these pics -

http://www.tategoi.com/oomokoi/koi%20harvest.htm

Now... these breeders have zillions of dollars (yen) invested in
their
Koi, so they need them to
maintain prime health. This being the case, is it really necessary
to
have
clear water for koi? Yes,
Ph, nitrates, nitrites, and such need to be correct - but it seems
the
water itself does not need to
be clear.

What am I missing here????

- David

Thanks Lee. I'll check it out.
--
Kathy B, zookeeper

Lee Brouillet wrote:
Zookeeper, try http://www.koivillage.com
The owner is Gene Winstead, and he's a real sweetheart. He has links to
other pages on his site about the clay he sells (Koi Clay) and its
specifics. Gene is the "distributor"; everyone else gets Koi Clay from him
and resells it.