I was thinking of using rain water to top of my pond due to evaporation
and or water changes. Is there an easy way to do this? I have some 5
gallon buckets, but I want more volume. I was thinking of using my
metal roof as a collector. Does anyone do this? Is there any harm in
using rain water instead to tap water with chlorimine? I have a few
Koi and goldfish and I don't want them harmed.

"itten" wrote in message
...
I was thinking of using rain water to top of my pond due to evaporation
and or water changes. Is there an easy way to do this? I have some 5
gallon buckets, but I want more volume. I was thinking of using my
metal roof as a collector. Does anyone do this? Is there any harm in
using rain water instead to tap water with chlorimine? I have a few
Koi and goldfish and I don't want them harmed.

A copper roof could be a problem as a collector surface but otherwise you
should be OK, especially if you filter the water first (through a pair of
tights, for example) to minimise the ingress of leaves and other solids.

--
Brian
"There is no point knocking yerself out, working all sorts of silly hours
and driving the length and breadth of Britain, if you can't just phone to
get a plumber in when you need one."

Yes, I do it and it's worked even better than I thought it would. The
pond doesn't even have a liner and each time it rains it gets topped
off. It's about 1500 gallons.

itten wrote:
I was thinking of using rain water to top of my pond due to evaporation
and or water changes. Is there an easy way to do this? I have some 5
gallon buckets, but I want more volume. I was thinking of using my
metal roof as a collector. Does anyone do this? Is there any harm in
using rain water instead to tap water with chlorimine? I have a few
Koi and goldfish and I don't want them harmed.

Sounds like an excellent idea! If you are in southern California or
anywhere else with SMOG, you may want to divert the first 15 minutes away
from your holding tank. The first rain here in lala land is sometimes
acidic!

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"itten" wrote in message
...
I was thinking of using rain water to top of my pond due to evaporation
and or water changes. Is there an easy way to do this? I have some 5
gallon buckets, but I want more volume. I was thinking of using my
metal roof as a collector. Does anyone do this? Is there any harm in
using rain water instead to tap water with chlorimine? I have a few
Koi and goldfish and I don't want them harmed.

I wouldnt.. bird crap is loaded with cooties, not good for fish. Unless there is no
other available water of course. Ingrid

itten wrote:

I was thinking of using rain water to top of my pond due to evaporation
and or water changes. Is there an easy way to do this? I have some 5
gallon buckets, but I want more volume. I was thinking of using my
metal roof as a collector. Does anyone do this? Is there any harm in
using rain water instead to tap water with chlorimine? I have a few
Koi and goldfish and I don't want them harmed.

I wouldnt.. bird crap is loaded with cooties, not good for fish. Unless there is no
other available water of course.

Do you have documentation to back up that statement? Just curious,
since ducks, geese and other birds poop in all types of water bodies
that contain aquatic creatures, with no evidence of harm to the water
creatures.

Lori

On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 00:20:55 GMT, "Just Me \"Koi\""
wrote:

Sounds like an excellent idea! If you are in southern California or
anywhere else with SMOG, you may want to divert the first 15 minutes away
from your holding tank. The first rain here in lala land is sometimes
acidic!


Another complication, in SoCal it may go 6 to 8 months with no rain.
That usually happens when it is dry and that's when you need the
water. then it rains a few inchees a day, and there is too much. A
really big storage facility would be needed.

--

- Charles
-
-does not play well with others

any relationship between large bodies of water and our ponds is imaginary. large
bodies of water have water flowing in and water flowing out and flushing the system.
The number of gallons per fish is a great deal higher so the concentration of the
parasites is a great deal lower. Despite that, fish are dying from disease all the
time in large bodies of water. A large part of natural selection is having the
immune system that can withstand parasites, bacteria and viruses.
Try Noga, he gives the source of infections that hit all kinds of fish. Ingrid

Lori wrote:
Do you have documentation to back up that statement? Just curious,
since ducks, geese and other birds poop in all types of water bodies
that contain aquatic creatures, with no evidence of harm to the water
creatures.

I have used my roof runoff successfully for a prior pond in my
backyard in Washington, DC. Both koi and goldfish survived for many
years. I had no additional aeration and relied upon fresh rainwater
to both flush the pond and provide oxygen. My roof at that time was
terne - tin-covered steel.

I have since put on a new roof, sheet copper with lead solder, and
have rebuilt my pond to be even larger. I'm now finding that most
fish die within 3-6 days after adding them to the pond, although some
have survived for almost 2 weeks. I am pretty certain that this is
because of the copper and lead leaching into the water (but I would
love to be proved wrong and find some other problem I can solve). I
hope that as my roof oxidizes and forms a patina the leaching will
decline and be less harmful to my fish. Does anyone know if this is
true? I am also looking for some kind of filter or treatment that can
remove the metal. My collection system includes a small culvert where
I could install a filter mechanism. Does anyone know of any kind of
mechanism/filter that can remove copper and/or lead? Is there any
kind of catalyst that can help?

Hi Lori,

I know I'm gonna sound a bit flippant, but so many people here are always
demanding that Ingrid shows proof. That I just have to ask regarding your
comment:

Lori wrote:
Do you have documentation to back up that statement? Just curious,
since ducks, geese and other birds poop in all types of water bodies
that contain aquatic creatures, with no evidence of harm to the water
creatures.

Where is your evidence of no harm? I think if you do a little researching
you will find that a lot of fish die from the crap of other aquatics.
Recently a study was done on our local Yakima river on what was the biggest
contributor to it being so polluted. Everyone felt for sure it would be cow
crap, or farmer's fertilizer or at least something man made. The highest
problem, duck and geese crap.

I'm always quite surprised by the ignorance that people believe our lakes &
rivers are "clean & healthy". I guess they must not see the headlines of
"Large Fish Kill" due to low O2 caused by high algae cause by high goose
poo levels. So much for proof of evidence... read the wildlife pages.

Now regarding rainwater, sure it's clean when it leaves the clouds and then
it gathers anything and everything on it's way down. Rain is the air's
filtration system, rain is acidic or at best pH neutral, it has no buffer,
thus can throw off your pH balance in your pond if large enough amounts
enter at one time. Keep the baking soda and test kits handy. A water
change isn't a water change unless old water is removed. ~ jan


On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 05:22:15 GMT, wrote:

any relationship between large bodies of water and our ponds is imaginary. large
bodies of water have water flowing in and water flowing out and flushing the system.
The number of gallons per fish is a great deal higher so the concentration of the
parasites is a great deal lower. Despite that, fish are dying from disease all the
time in large bodies of water. A large part of natural selection is having the
immune system that can withstand parasites, bacteria and viruses.
Try Noga, he gives the source of infections that hit all kinds of fish. Ingrid

Lori wrote:
Do you have documentation to back up that statement? Just curious,
since ducks, geese and other birds poop in all types of water bodies
that contain aquatic creatures, with no evidence of harm to the water
creatures.


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

Personally I think you're out of luck John, being in DC I suspect (correct
me if I'm wrong) that your rain is quite acidic and it will forever cause
your roof to toss of Copper. ~ jan

On 16 Jun 2003 20:31:44 -0700, (John Chelen) wrote:

I have used my roof runoff successfully for a prior pond in my
backyard in Washington, DC. Both koi and goldfish survived for many
years. I had no additional aeration and relied upon fresh rainwater
to both flush the pond and provide oxygen. My roof at that time was
terne - tin-covered steel.

I have since put on a new roof, sheet copper with lead solder, and
have rebuilt my pond to be even larger. I'm now finding that most
fish die within 3-6 days after adding them to the pond, although some
have survived for almost 2 weeks. I am pretty certain that this is
because of the copper and lead leaching into the water (but I would
love to be proved wrong and find some other problem I can solve). I
hope that as my roof oxidizes and forms a patina the leaching will
decline and be less harmful to my fish. Does anyone know if this is
true? I am also looking for some kind of filter or treatment that can
remove the metal. My collection system includes a small culvert where
I could install a filter mechanism. Does anyone know of any kind of
mechanism/filter that can remove copper and/or lead? Is there any
kind of catalyst that can help?


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

I agree. copper is most toxic in acidic water, which is exactly what rain water is.
Ingrid

~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:

Personally I think you're out of luck John, being in DC I suspect (correct
me if I'm wrong) that your rain is quite acidic and it will forever cause
your roof to toss of Copper. ~ jan

On 16 Jun 2003 20:31:44 -0700, (John Chelen) wrote:

I have used my roof runoff successfully for a prior pond in my
backyard in Washington, DC. Both koi and goldfish survived for many
years. I had no additional aeration and relied upon fresh rainwater
to both flush the pond and provide oxygen. My roof at that time was
terne - tin-covered steel.

I have since put on a new roof, sheet copper with lead solder, and
have rebuilt my pond to be even larger. I'm now finding that most
fish die within 3-6 days after adding them to the pond, although some
have survived for almost 2 weeks. I am pretty certain that this is
because of the copper and lead leaching into the water (but I would
love to be proved wrong and find some other problem I can solve). I
hope that as my roof oxidizes and forms a patina the leaching will
decline and be less harmful to my fish. Does anyone know if this is
true? I am also looking for some kind of filter or treatment that can
remove the metal. My collection system includes a small culvert where
I could install a filter mechanism. Does anyone know of any kind of
mechanism/filter that can remove copper and/or lead? Is there any
kind of catalyst that can help?


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Thanks for the info. However, I think our rain here is pretty neutral
since we don't have too much industry either here or upwind, as far as
I know. My tests of the water have always shown Ph neutral, but of
course, that's after the water has run off the roof. I'm now thinking
about applying a mild acid to my roof to accelerate the formation of
the patina and reduce the leaching. Does that make sense?

it has nothing to do with industry. it has to do with dissolved CO2 which makes it a
weak acid which will continue to leach the copper. the only metal that forms a
patina that stops further oxidation (commonly in use) is aluminum.
tell you what, check that pet place, I think they or MOPS has a copper test. get
that and test your rain water. then you will really know one way or the other.
Ingrid

(John Chelen) wrote:

Thanks for the info. However, I think our rain here is pretty neutral
since we don't have too much industry either here or upwind, as far as
I know. My tests of the water have always shown Ph neutral, but of
course, that's after the water has run off the roof. I'm now thinking
about applying a mild acid to my roof to accelerate the formation of
the patina and reduce the leaching. Does that make sense?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
Personally I think you're out of luck John, being in DC I suspect (correct
me if I'm wrong) that your rain is quite acidic and it will forever cause
your roof to toss of Copper. ~ jan
snip

Now ~jan...that wasn't a dig on DC was it? Livin in MD, I would have to say,
"Them's fightin' words..."

BV.
disclaimerPurely in Jest/disclaimer