$400 just for the electrical help? That seems rather high. I only have to
trench about 20 to 30 feet. I watched a neighbor trench his cable line in
about an hour and it didn't seem that involved. Did you have a lot of other
electrical done at the same time or something?

"K30a" wrote in message
...
L.Scooby wrote What type of fee could I expect to be charged ?
(running
electricity out to the pond).

We dug the trench ourselves with the help of a college linebacker...
Everything came out to be about $400,
that's here in the Pacific NorthWest.




k30a

luckily my hubby is hand on these sort of things

call & 'ask' an electrician how much you can do.

we ran wire underground through plastic conduit ( probably 12/2 can'
remember).
one end was attached to an outdoor receptacle for the pump plugs.
other end was put into the main circuit breaker inside house ours was
conveniently JUSt inside the house wall adjacent to pond.

'if' he will let you run the wire to house 2 points that would save you &
him a lot of work.

good luck.

"Little Sccoby" wrote in message
...
What type of fee could I expect to be charged? Also, do the electricians
trench the electrical wire to the pond or is that something they would let
us do (or a landscaper if needed)?

Speaking of shut-off devices based on water levels, do the pumps that have
shutoff capabilities work very well? Or is it always better to use a
separate shut-off device and not rely on the pumps with built in shut-off
capabilities (especially when running multiple pumps in an array)? I guess
what I mean is this: By the time the low water level activates the shut-off
mechanism on the pump, is the pump already slightly (even very slightly)
damaged in any way or is it just a normal proven method for shutting off a
pump that has no side-effects whatsoever (or shorten lifespan of pump in any
way)? (I keep hearing horror stories of people who let their pumps run dry).

The reason I ask is because my pond will be teensy with wind blowing the
fountains spray out of the pond on a constant basis (unless or even if I use
a wind detection shut-off device with this setup) and the water level could
reach shut-off levels on a daily or at least weekly basis (grass should be
okay because it's all down hill or in a rocky area with good drainage).

Is it kinda like with a PC? You could use an average powerstrip for your PC,
or you could do the right thing and use a UPS that not only protects against
electrical spikes but also has a battery backup to prevent your PC from
shutting down hard in case the electricity goes out.

I'm all for redundancy, but to a point. I would not run any PC without a UPS
so I'm guessing I shouldn't just rely on the built in shutoff mechanisms
built into certain pumps, but, as I'm slowly finding out, ponds and all the
electrical devices that go with them (pumps, underwater lights, wind/water
level shutoff devices, etc), are very far from the PC realm.

Hopefully this week I should have some pictures of this crazy super pond
project from heaven (I can hardly wait to hear the laughter of my attempts
to get 3 pumps with fountain jets in this small 4x5 foot pond), but I must
complete the project, even though it is going much slower than I had
originally anticipated and has cost me a few extra dollars than I had
accounted for. Hopefully it will be worth it in the long run.

Once again, thanks for all the help. It has been not only fun but amusing as
well.

-Little Scooby


"Little Sccoby" wrote in message
...

Holy shitballs. Creating a pond is a lot of work. I thought of another
device I could use though. Besides a wind detector like this one:

http://www.smarthome.com/7196.html

I could also use a water level safety shutoff device. Anyone ever use any
before? It would just have to be able to turn off a normal AC switch when
the water level reaches a low level in the pond. That way, even if the
water
does blow out of the pond during high winds, the pumps would be
automatically shut off so they don't get burned out.

-Little Scooby


"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
I say, "Go for it." When you figure it all out, let us know worked, and
pictures please. ~ jan

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:54:25 -0500, "Little Sccoby"
wrote:

I'm thinking it is going to be very very close to very very very very
close
if it works. I always have the option to upgrade the pond size as the
final
tweak but I want to save that option as the last resort option.
snip
I'll just have to wait and see how it turns out I guess. Who knows. In
1
week I could be digging again, but I hope not...

-Little Scooby


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

Speaking of shut-off devices based on water levels, do the pumps that have
shutoff capabilities work very well? Or is it always better to use a
separate shut-off device and not rely on the pumps with built in shut-off
capabilities (especially when running multiple pumps in an array)? I guess
what I mean is this: By the time the low water level activates the shut-off
mechanism on the pump, is the pump already slightly (even very slightly)
damaged in any way or is it just a normal proven method for shutting off a
pump that has no side-effects whatsoever (or shorten lifespan of pump in any
way)? (I keep hearing horror stories of people who let their pumps run dry).

The reason I ask is because my pond will be teensy with wind blowing the
fountains spray out of the pond on a constant basis (unless or even if I use
a wind detection shut-off device with this setup) and the water level could
reach shut-off levels on a daily or at least weekly basis (grass should be
okay because it's all down hill or in a rocky area with good drainage).

Is it kinda like with a PC? You could use an average powerstrip for your PC,
or you could do the right thing and use a UPS that not only protects against
electrical spikes but also has a battery backup to prevent your PC from
shutting down hard in case the electricity goes out.

I'm all for redundancy, but to a point. I would not run any PC without a UPS
so I'm guessing I shouldn't just rely on the built in shutoff mechanisms
built into certain pumps, but, as I'm slowly finding out, ponds and all the
electrical devices that go with them (pumps, underwater lights, wind/water
level shutoff devices, etc), are very far from the PC realm.

Hopefully this week I should have some pictures of this crazy super pond
project from heaven (I can hardly wait to hear the laughter of my attempts
to get 3 pumps with fountain jets in this small 4x5 foot pond), but I must
complete the project, even though it is going much slower than I had
originally anticipated and has cost me a few extra dollars than I had
accounted for. Hopefully it will be worth it in the long run.

Once again, thanks for all the help. It has been not only fun but amusing as
well.

-Little Scooby


"Little Sccoby" wrote in message
...

Holy shitballs. Creating a pond is a lot of work. I thought of another
device I could use though. Besides a wind detector like this one:

http://www.smarthome.com/7196.html

I could also use a water level safety shutoff device. Anyone ever use any
before? It would just have to be able to turn off a normal AC switch when
the water level reaches a low level in the pond. That way, even if the
water
does blow out of the pond during high winds, the pumps would be
automatically shut off so they don't get burned out.

-Little Scooby


"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
I say, "Go for it." When you figure it all out, let us know worked, and
pictures please. ~ jan

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:54:25 -0500, "Little Sccoby"
wrote:

I'm thinking it is going to be very very close to very very very very
close
if it works. I always have the option to upgrade the pond size as the
final
tweak but I want to save that option as the last resort option.
snip
I'll just have to wait and see how it turns out I guess. Who knows. In
1
week I could be digging again, but I hope not...

-Little Scooby


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

I will probably call them before the weekend. Just kind of feeling the
waters out so I'm not too floored and know what to expect when I talk to
them.

Do they normally like to run all the underground wire themselves?

-Little Scooby


"*muffin*" wrote in message
...
luckily my hubby is hand on these sort of things

call & 'ask' an electrician how much you can do.

we ran wire underground through plastic conduit ( probably 12/2 can'
remember).
one end was attached to an outdoor receptacle for the pump plugs.
other end was put into the main circuit breaker inside house ours was
conveniently JUSt inside the house wall adjacent to pond.

'if' he will let you run the wire to house 2 points that would save you &
him a lot of work.

good luck.

"Little Sccoby" wrote in message
...
What type of fee could I expect to be charged? Also, do the
electricians
trench the electrical wire to the pond or is that something they would
let
us do (or a landscaper if needed)?

hmm I wouldn't know.

I'm sure It adds to their ????? you pay them.

but I don't think he wants to do digging!!! if 'I were an electrician I'd
only want to do the hookups.



"Little Sccoby" wrote in message
...
I will probably call them before the weekend. Just kind of feeling the
waters out so I'm not too floored and know what to expect when I talk to
them.

Do they normally like to run all the underground wire themselves?

-Little Scooby

Nedra wrote:
There is a much better way.... call an electrician! I can
see you are a quick fixer ;-) ... not good to hook up your pond
with nothing but extension cords. And Please
don't wrap the cords with plastic. It holds in heat and could
easily cause a fire. If you must use extenesion cords buy
some dielectric grease from an auto parts store. Smear that
all over the ends. It is water proof.

I would like to see you post that you've thought about it ..
and your going to hire an electrician.

Nedra

Nedra is right use an electrician and do it to code
my 1cents worth if you bury the extension cord and somehow a fire
startss your insuranc may not pay somtheing to consider
I have seen that happen when I was a firefighter




John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

never miss a good oportunity to shut up

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

Little Sccoby wrote:
Actually, after reading a bunch of articles about installing ground fault
interupters, I'm more confused than before so it looks like I will have to
consult an electrician. I kinda thought there might be more to it than just
trenching a thick extension cord (or other high grade electrical cord) to a
GFCI recepticle so I am glad I asked. I never thought about the heat
generated from plastic wrapped around the cords (especially since they would
be buried underground). Good point.

What type of fee could I expect to be charged? Also, do the electricians
trench the electrical wire to the pond or is that something they would let
us do (or a landscaper if needed)?

Thanks again for all the help. I hope everything turns out.

-Little Scooby

the electician should do the trench too underground feeds are quite common nowadays

John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

never miss a good oportunity to shut up

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

Nedra wrote:
There is a much better way.... call an electrician! I can
see you are a quick fixer ;-) ... not good to hook up your pond
with nothing but extension cords. And Please
don't wrap the cords with plastic. It holds in heat and could
easily cause a fire. If you must use extenesion cords buy
some dielectric grease from an auto parts store. Smear that
all over the ends. It is water proof.

I would like to see you post that you've thought about it ..
and your going to hire an electrician.

Nedra

Nedra is right use an electrician and do it to code
my 1cents worth if you bury the extension cord and somehow a fire
startss your insuranc may not pay somtheing to consider
I have seen that happen when I was a firefighter




John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

never miss a good oportunity to shut up

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

Little Sccoby wrote:
Actually, after reading a bunch of articles about installing ground fault
interupters, I'm more confused than before so it looks like I will have to
consult an electrician. I kinda thought there might be more to it than just
trenching a thick extension cord (or other high grade electrical cord) to a
GFCI recepticle so I am glad I asked. I never thought about the heat
generated from plastic wrapped around the cords (especially since they would
be buried underground). Good point.

What type of fee could I expect to be charged? Also, do the electricians
trench the electrical wire to the pond or is that something they would let
us do (or a landscaper if needed)?

Thanks again for all the help. I hope everything turns out.

-Little Scooby

the electician should do the trench too underground feeds are quite common nowadays

John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

never miss a good oportunity to shut up

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

"Little Sccoby" wrote:



Do they normally like to run all the underground wire themselves?

Almost assuredly. You may be able to save by doing the digging
yourself. A pro may have a vibratory plow, which can put the cable in
with out digging.

The GFCI should go at the house part, so that this way, your protected
if the cable is hit or breached, it will trip.

There is special cable that is rated for burial underground, to handle
both the heat, and soil exposure, moisture, and bugs.

You may also want to put in a post or something else to attach the
remote box to, if you want something other than a plain pipe, like a
wood post.

scooby wrote $400 just for the electrical help?

Not just the help. The conduit, the wiring, the post, the box, the burying,
contacting city, the permit, the inspection.
It is all what your market charges.
My husband is an electrical engineer and wanted someone who knows city codes,
etc. (He can build you a safe nuclear reactor but he relys on electricans for
work on our home.)

The reason why I suggest this is you sounded a little wonky on the whole
electrical business. Don't want to fool around with electricity if you don't
have a clear understanding of it. With as many children, now teenagers, around
our yard we felt that safety was our highest concern and cost wasn't an issue
when you consider the consequences. I was the before and after-school care mom
on our block so we're talking a lot of kids ;-)


k30a

I have never met an electrician who was not glad to have someone else
do the donkey work.(dig the trench) How deep and the location will be
dictated by code. Your electrician will tell you what he wants. If you
are not familiar with national and local codes (or it seems even
common electrical safety) this is the one part of pond building that
should be left to the pro.
Just a thought ..... find out if you can share the same trench
with a water line to make topping off easier.
"Little Sccoby" wrote in message
...
I will probably call them before the weekend. Just kind of feeling
the
waters out so I'm not too floored and know what to expect when I
talk to
them.

Do they normally like to run all the underground wire themselves?

-Little Scooby


"*muffin*" wrote in message
...
luckily my hubby is hand on these sort of things

call & 'ask' an electrician how much you can do.

we ran wire underground through plastic conduit ( probably 12/2
can'
remember).
one end was attached to an outdoor receptacle for the pump plugs.
other end was put into the main circuit breaker inside house
ours was
conveniently JUSt inside the house wall adjacent to pond.

'if' he will let you run the wire to house 2 points that would
save you &
him a lot of work.

good luck.

"Little Sccoby" wrote in message
...
What type of fee could I expect to be charged? Also, do the
electricians
trench the electrical wire to the pond or is that something they
would
let
us do (or a landscaper if needed)?

The pumps that I have seen with auto shutoff devices are all sump pumps.
They have the switch to turn them on automatically when the water in the
sump comes up to a point, and cut off when it goes back down. Those pumps
are not rated for continuous operation, and most of them are real energy
hogs. You can buy the parts for a switch, a piece of threaded rod, a few
nuts and a toilet bowl float.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Little Sccoby" wrote in message
...
Speaking of shut-off devices based on water levels, do the pumps that have
shutoff capabilities work very well? Or is it always better to use a
separate shut-off device and not rely on the pumps with built in shut-off
capabilities (especially when running multiple pumps in an array)? I guess
what I mean is this: By the time the low water level activates the
shut-off
mechanism on the pump, is the pump already slightly (even very slightly)
damaged in any way or is it just a normal proven method for shutting off a
pump that has no side-effects whatsoever (or shorten lifespan of pump in
any
way)? (I keep hearing horror stories of people who let their pumps run
dry).

The reason I ask is because my pond will be teensy with wind blowing the
fountains spray out of the pond on a constant basis (unless or even if I
use
a wind detection shut-off device with this setup) and the water level
could
reach shut-off levels on a daily or at least weekly basis (grass should be
okay because it's all down hill or in a rocky area with good drainage).

Is it kinda like with a PC? You could use an average powerstrip for your
PC,
or you could do the right thing and use a UPS that not only protects
against
electrical spikes but also has a battery backup to prevent your PC from
shutting down hard in case the electricity goes out.

I'm all for redundancy, but to a point. I would not run any PC without a
UPS
so I'm guessing I shouldn't just rely on the built in shutoff mechanisms
built into certain pumps, but, as I'm slowly finding out, ponds and all
the
electrical devices that go with them (pumps, underwater lights, wind/water
level shutoff devices, etc), are very far from the PC realm.

Hopefully this week I should have some pictures of this crazy super pond
project from heaven (I can hardly wait to hear the laughter of my attempts
to get 3 pumps with fountain jets in this small 4x5 foot pond), but I must
complete the project, even though it is going much slower than I had
originally anticipated and has cost me a few extra dollars than I had
accounted for. Hopefully it will be worth it in the long run.

Once again, thanks for all the help. It has been not only fun but amusing
as
well.

-Little Scooby


"Little Sccoby" wrote in message
...

Holy shitballs. Creating a pond is a lot of work. I thought of another
device I could use though. Besides a wind detector like this one:

http://www.smarthome.com/7196.html

I could also use a water level safety shutoff device. Anyone ever use
any
before? It would just have to be able to turn off a normal AC switch
when
the water level reaches a low level in the pond. That way, even if the
water
does blow out of the pond during high winds, the pumps would be
automatically shut off so they don't get burned out.

-Little Scooby


"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
I say, "Go for it." When you figure it all out, let us know worked,
and
pictures please. ~ jan

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:54:25 -0500, "Little Sccoby"
wrote:

I'm thinking it is going to be very very close to very very very very
close
if it works. I always have the option to upgrade the pond size as the
final
tweak but I want to save that option as the last resort option.
snip
I'll just have to wait and see how it turns out I guess. Who knows.
In
1
week I could be digging again, but I hope not...

-Little Scooby


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

I have both systems. One on the pump built-in is probably best for you, so
you don't have the large bobber in the water.... though as an artist you
could probably disguise it to look like a boat or glue some fake silk
aquarium plants to it. One on the pump will let your water go lower, the
bobber can be set so it turns off at a point you prefer. Either way, both
work. I got my mercury float switch from www.aquaticeco.com ~ jan

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:07:54 -0500, "Little Sccoby" wrote:

Speaking of shut-off devices based on water levels, do the pumps that have
shutoff capabilities work very well? Or is it always better to use a
separate shut-off device and not rely on the pumps with built in shut-off
capabilities (especially when running multiple pumps in an array)? I guess
what I mean is this: By the time the low water level activates the shut-off
mechanism on the pump, is the pump already slightly (even very slightly)
damaged in any way or is it just a normal proven method for shutting off a
pump that has no side-effects whatsoever (or shorten lifespan of pump in any
way)? (I keep hearing horror stories of people who let their pumps run dry).



See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website