On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 17:38:02 -0500, GrannyGrump
wrote:


Someone posted a message about raising the water level before the freeze
and melting a hole in the ice and pumping a couple inches of water out
from under the ice. The sheet of ice above the water insulates the
water underneath and saves on the electric bill as well as keeping the
fish alive.

This would accomplish the gaseous exchange, until there was no more
oxygen in the air between the water and the ice....

Didn't know that was a problem, since the hole is still open and can't
refreeze with the water not reaching it. Are you telling me hydrogen
sulfide is heavier than air and will be trapped in the space displacing
oxygen?

Regards,

Hal

FrankS,

You might consider a procedure the Japanese use on their ponds where the
winter is severe. They place boards across the pond at the appropriate
width and frequency and then use the boards to support bales of hay covering
the entire pond expect for one small area at one end for gas exchange.
Barring this technique, you may want to consider using Styrafoam sheets,
like the ones used on the side of new construction homes. I presently have
one shutting off my back porch where I have extra tubs with fish in them.
You would have to figure out a support mechanism for snow weight and
probably for weights used to hold the sheet(s) down, and you would still
have to leave a small opening to allow for gas exchange, but it has worked
for me over the years when I deemed that I needed it.

HTH

Tom L.L.
--------------------------------------------
"FrankS" wrote in message
...
I live in North Dakota and for the last week or so the temperature has
been
VERY cold. The night time temps have been as low as -28 degrees F for
several nights with the daytime high temps staying below minus 10 degrees
for about a week now. This is cold even for us natives.

I have a small pond, about 300 gallons, stocked with gold fish, a comet,
koi
and shibunkin(sp?) and maybe a crayfish or two. The pond was nearly
covered
with snow and frost that I was sure the fish would be crispy critters by
now
but this afternoon I braved the cold and went out to check on them. I was
surprised and, to say the least, pleased that everyone seemed to be in as
good as spirits as possible under the circumstances. I use a 1200 watt
floating stock tank heater and a bubbler pump but I wasn't sure if the
heater could keep up with the constant cold temps. This, to me, is proof
of
the hardiness of pond fish and the value of a $30 heater. My real
problem
is evaporation, the cold air is very dry and the comparative warm water
makes for rapid evaporation so I'm the only guy in the neighborhood with a
garden hose stretched out in the back yard all winter.

Anyone have a similar experiences?

Frank

FrankS,

You might consider a procedure the Japanese use on their ponds where the
winter is severe. They place boards across the pond at the appropriate
width and frequency and then use the boards to support bales of hay covering
the entire pond expect for one small area at one end for gas exchange.
Barring this technique, you may want to consider using Styrafoam sheets,
like the ones used on the side of new construction homes. I presently have
one shutting off my back porch where I have extra tubs with fish in them.
You would have to figure out a support mechanism for snow weight and
probably for weights used to hold the sheet(s) down, and you would still
have to leave a small opening to allow for gas exchange, but it has worked
for me over the years when I deemed that I needed it.

HTH

Tom L.L.
--------------------------------------------
"FrankS" wrote in message
...
I live in North Dakota and for the last week or so the temperature has
been
VERY cold. The night time temps have been as low as -28 degrees F for
several nights with the daytime high temps staying below minus 10 degrees
for about a week now. This is cold even for us natives.

I have a small pond, about 300 gallons, stocked with gold fish, a comet,
koi
and shibunkin(sp?) and maybe a crayfish or two. The pond was nearly
covered
with snow and frost that I was sure the fish would be crispy critters by
now
but this afternoon I braved the cold and went out to check on them. I was
surprised and, to say the least, pleased that everyone seemed to be in as
good as spirits as possible under the circumstances. I use a 1200 watt
floating stock tank heater and a bubbler pump but I wasn't sure if the
heater could keep up with the constant cold temps. This, to me, is proof
of
the hardiness of pond fish and the value of a $30 heater. My real
problem
is evaporation, the cold air is very dry and the comparative warm water
makes for rapid evaporation so I'm the only guy in the neighborhood with a
garden hose stretched out in the back yard all winter.

Anyone have a similar experiences?

Frank

You can make one yourself for free, all you need is a tupperware
container and a 4 milk jugs and an adapter to plug the bulb into an outlet.
Mike

Gale Pearce wrote:

Rather than a stock tank heater (1200 - 1500 watts), K & H manufacturing in
the US has a 100 watt heater they say they tested in Minnesota that works on
the power of a 100 watt light bulb, ~ twice the price of the higher powered
ones, but should pay the difference in a month or so - link below
Gale :~)

http://www.mops.ca/cgi-bin/SoftCart.....asp?E+scstore

:

I live in North Dakota and for the last week or so the temperature has

been

VERY cold. The night time temps have been as low as -28 degrees F for
several nights with the daytime high temps staying below minus 10

degrees

for about a week now. This is cold even for us natives.

I have a small pond, about 300 gallons, stocked with gold fish, a comet,

koi

and shibunkin(sp?) and maybe a crayfish or two. The pond was nearly

covered

with snow and frost that I was sure the fish would be crispy critters by

now

but this afternoon I braved the cold and went out to check on them. I

was

surprised and, to say the least, pleased that everyone seemed to be in

as

good as spirits as possible under the circumstances. I use a 1200 watt
floating stock tank heater and a bubbler pump but I wasn't sure if the
heater could keep up with the constant cold temps. This, to me, is

proof of

the hardiness of pond fish and the value of a $30 heater. My real

problem

is evaporation, the cold air is very dry and the comparative warm water
makes for rapid evaporation so I'm the only guy in the neighborhood with

a

garden hose stretched out in the back yard all winter.

Anyone have a similar experiences?

Frank



I'm doing the same thing in Minnesota - added water yesterday. This is
the second winter that I've used a tank heater - really boosts the
electric bill - but easier than setting up tanks in the basement.
The fish were swimming around and lookin good yesterday.
Karen

You can make one yourself for free, all you need is a tupperware
container and a 4 milk jugs and an adapter to plug the bulb into an outlet.
Mike

Gale Pearce wrote:

Rather than a stock tank heater (1200 - 1500 watts), K & H manufacturing in
the US has a 100 watt heater they say they tested in Minnesota that works on
the power of a 100 watt light bulb, ~ twice the price of the higher powered
ones, but should pay the difference in a month or so - link below
Gale :~)

http://www.mops.ca/cgi-bin/SoftCart.....asp?E+scstore

:

I live in North Dakota and for the last week or so the temperature has

been

VERY cold. The night time temps have been as low as -28 degrees F for
several nights with the daytime high temps staying below minus 10

degrees

for about a week now. This is cold even for us natives.

I have a small pond, about 300 gallons, stocked with gold fish, a comet,

koi

and shibunkin(sp?) and maybe a crayfish or two. The pond was nearly

covered

with snow and frost that I was sure the fish would be crispy critters by

now

but this afternoon I braved the cold and went out to check on them. I

was

surprised and, to say the least, pleased that everyone seemed to be in

as

good as spirits as possible under the circumstances. I use a 1200 watt
floating stock tank heater and a bubbler pump but I wasn't sure if the
heater could keep up with the constant cold temps. This, to me, is

proof of

the hardiness of pond fish and the value of a $30 heater. My real

problem

is evaporation, the cold air is very dry and the comparative warm water
makes for rapid evaporation so I'm the only guy in the neighborhood with

a

garden hose stretched out in the back yard all winter.

Anyone have a similar experiences?

Frank



I'm doing the same thing in Minnesota - added water yesterday. This is
the second winter that I've used a tank heater - really boosts the
electric bill - but easier than setting up tanks in the basement.
The fish were swimming around and lookin good yesterday.
Karen

FrankS,

You might consider a procedure the Japanese use on their ponds where the
winter is severe. They place boards across the pond at the appropriate
width and frequency and then use the boards to support bales of hay covering
the entire pond expect for one small area at one end for gas exchange.
Barring this technique, you may want to consider using Styrafoam sheets,
like the ones used on the side of new construction homes. I presently have
one shutting off my back porch where I have extra tubs with fish in them.
You would have to figure out a support mechanism for snow weight and
probably for weights used to hold the sheet(s) down, and you would still
have to leave a small opening to allow for gas exchange, but it has worked
for me over the years when I deemed that I needed it.

HTH

Tom L.L.
--------------------------------------------
"FrankS" wrote in message
...
I live in North Dakota and for the last week or so the temperature has
been
VERY cold. The night time temps have been as low as -28 degrees F for
several nights with the daytime high temps staying below minus 10 degrees
for about a week now. This is cold even for us natives.

I have a small pond, about 300 gallons, stocked with gold fish, a comet,
koi
and shibunkin(sp?) and maybe a crayfish or two. The pond was nearly
covered
with snow and frost that I was sure the fish would be crispy critters by
now
but this afternoon I braved the cold and went out to check on them. I was
surprised and, to say the least, pleased that everyone seemed to be in as
good as spirits as possible under the circumstances. I use a 1200 watt
floating stock tank heater and a bubbler pump but I wasn't sure if the
heater could keep up with the constant cold temps. This, to me, is proof
of
the hardiness of pond fish and the value of a $30 heater. My real
problem
is evaporation, the cold air is very dry and the comparative warm water
makes for rapid evaporation so I'm the only guy in the neighborhood with a
garden hose stretched out in the back yard all winter.

Anyone have a similar experiences?

Frank

You can make one yourself for free, all you need is a tupperware
container and a 4 milk jugs and an adapter to plug the bulb into an outlet.
Mike

Gale Pearce wrote:

Rather than a stock tank heater (1200 - 1500 watts), K & H manufacturing in
the US has a 100 watt heater they say they tested in Minnesota that works on
the power of a 100 watt light bulb, ~ twice the price of the higher powered
ones, but should pay the difference in a month or so - link below
Gale :~)

http://www.mops.ca/cgi-bin/SoftCart.....asp?E+scstore

:

I live in North Dakota and for the last week or so the temperature has

been

VERY cold. The night time temps have been as low as -28 degrees F for
several nights with the daytime high temps staying below minus 10

degrees

for about a week now. This is cold even for us natives.

I have a small pond, about 300 gallons, stocked with gold fish, a comet,

koi

and shibunkin(sp?) and maybe a crayfish or two. The pond was nearly

covered

with snow and frost that I was sure the fish would be crispy critters by

now

but this afternoon I braved the cold and went out to check on them. I

was

surprised and, to say the least, pleased that everyone seemed to be in

as

good as spirits as possible under the circumstances. I use a 1200 watt
floating stock tank heater and a bubbler pump but I wasn't sure if the
heater could keep up with the constant cold temps. This, to me, is

proof of

the hardiness of pond fish and the value of a $30 heater. My real

problem

is evaporation, the cold air is very dry and the comparative warm water
makes for rapid evaporation so I'm the only guy in the neighborhood with

a

garden hose stretched out in the back yard all winter.

Anyone have a similar experiences?

Frank



I'm doing the same thing in Minnesota - added water yesterday. This is
the second winter that I've used a tank heater - really boosts the
electric bill - but easier than setting up tanks in the basement.
The fish were swimming around and lookin good yesterday.
Karen

FrankS,

You might consider a procedure the Japanese use on their ponds where the
winter is severe. They place boards across the pond at the appropriate
width and frequency and then use the boards to support bales of hay covering
the entire pond expect for one small area at one end for gas exchange.
Barring this technique, you may want to consider using Styrafoam sheets,
like the ones used on the side of new construction homes. I presently have
one shutting off my back porch where I have extra tubs with fish in them.
You would have to figure out a support mechanism for snow weight and
probably for weights used to hold the sheet(s) down, and you would still
have to leave a small opening to allow for gas exchange, but it has worked
for me over the years when I deemed that I needed it.

HTH

Tom L.L.
--------------------------------------------
"FrankS" wrote in message
...
I live in North Dakota and for the last week or so the temperature has
been
VERY cold. The night time temps have been as low as -28 degrees F for
several nights with the daytime high temps staying below minus 10 degrees
for about a week now. This is cold even for us natives.

I have a small pond, about 300 gallons, stocked with gold fish, a comet,
koi
and shibunkin(sp?) and maybe a crayfish or two. The pond was nearly
covered
with snow and frost that I was sure the fish would be crispy critters by
now
but this afternoon I braved the cold and went out to check on them. I was
surprised and, to say the least, pleased that everyone seemed to be in as
good as spirits as possible under the circumstances. I use a 1200 watt
floating stock tank heater and a bubbler pump but I wasn't sure if the
heater could keep up with the constant cold temps. This, to me, is proof
of
the hardiness of pond fish and the value of a $30 heater. My real
problem
is evaporation, the cold air is very dry and the comparative warm water
makes for rapid evaporation so I'm the only guy in the neighborhood with a
garden hose stretched out in the back yard all winter.

Anyone have a similar experiences?

Frank

You can make one yourself for free, all you need is a tupperware
container and a 4 milk jugs and an adapter to plug the bulb into an outlet.
Mike

Gale Pearce wrote:

Rather than a stock tank heater (1200 - 1500 watts), K & H manufacturing in
the US has a 100 watt heater they say they tested in Minnesota that works on
the power of a 100 watt light bulb, ~ twice the price of the higher powered
ones, but should pay the difference in a month or so - link below
Gale :~)

http://www.mops.ca/cgi-bin/SoftCart.....asp?E+scstore

:

I live in North Dakota and for the last week or so the temperature has

been

VERY cold. The night time temps have been as low as -28 degrees F for
several nights with the daytime high temps staying below minus 10

degrees

for about a week now. This is cold even for us natives.

I have a small pond, about 300 gallons, stocked with gold fish, a comet,

koi

and shibunkin(sp?) and maybe a crayfish or two. The pond was nearly

covered

with snow and frost that I was sure the fish would be crispy critters by

now

but this afternoon I braved the cold and went out to check on them. I

was

surprised and, to say the least, pleased that everyone seemed to be in

as

good as spirits as possible under the circumstances. I use a 1200 watt
floating stock tank heater and a bubbler pump but I wasn't sure if the
heater could keep up with the constant cold temps. This, to me, is

proof of

the hardiness of pond fish and the value of a $30 heater. My real

problem

is evaporation, the cold air is very dry and the comparative warm water
makes for rapid evaporation so I'm the only guy in the neighborhood with

a

garden hose stretched out in the back yard all winter.

Anyone have a similar experiences?

Frank



I'm doing the same thing in Minnesota - added water yesterday. This is
the second winter that I've used a tank heater - really boosts the
electric bill - but easier than setting up tanks in the basement.
The fish were swimming around and lookin good yesterday.
Karen

You can make one yourself for free, all you need is a tupperware
container and a 4 milk jugs and an adapter to plug the bulb into an outlet.
Mike

Gale Pearce wrote:

Rather than a stock tank heater (1200 - 1500 watts), K & H manufacturing in
the US has a 100 watt heater they say they tested in Minnesota that works on
the power of a 100 watt light bulb, ~ twice the price of the higher powered
ones, but should pay the difference in a month or so - link below
Gale :~)

http://www.mops.ca/cgi-bin/SoftCart.....asp?E+scstore

:

I live in North Dakota and for the last week or so the temperature has

been

VERY cold. The night time temps have been as low as -28 degrees F for
several nights with the daytime high temps staying below minus 10

degrees

for about a week now. This is cold even for us natives.

I have a small pond, about 300 gallons, stocked with gold fish, a comet,

koi

and shibunkin(sp?) and maybe a crayfish or two. The pond was nearly

covered

with snow and frost that I was sure the fish would be crispy critters by

now

but this afternoon I braved the cold and went out to check on them. I

was

surprised and, to say the least, pleased that everyone seemed to be in

as

good as spirits as possible under the circumstances. I use a 1200 watt
floating stock tank heater and a bubbler pump but I wasn't sure if the
heater could keep up with the constant cold temps. This, to me, is

proof of

the hardiness of pond fish and the value of a $30 heater. My real

problem

is evaporation, the cold air is very dry and the comparative warm water
makes for rapid evaporation so I'm the only guy in the neighborhood with

a

garden hose stretched out in the back yard all winter.

Anyone have a similar experiences?

Frank



I'm doing the same thing in Minnesota - added water yesterday. This is
the second winter that I've used a tank heater - really boosts the
electric bill - but easier than setting up tanks in the basement.
The fish were swimming around and lookin good yesterday.
Karen

You can make one yourself for free, all you need is a tupperware
container and a 4 milk jugs and an adapter to plug the bulb into an outlet.
Mike

Gale Pearce wrote:

Rather than a stock tank heater (1200 - 1500 watts), K & H manufacturing in
the US has a 100 watt heater they say they tested in Minnesota that works on
the power of a 100 watt light bulb, ~ twice the price of the higher powered
ones, but should pay the difference in a month or so - link below
Gale :~)

http://www.mops.ca/cgi-bin/SoftCart.....asp?E+scstore

:

I live in North Dakota and for the last week or so the temperature has

been

VERY cold. The night time temps have been as low as -28 degrees F for
several nights with the daytime high temps staying below minus 10

degrees

for about a week now. This is cold even for us natives.

I have a small pond, about 300 gallons, stocked with gold fish, a comet,

koi

and shibunkin(sp?) and maybe a crayfish or two. The pond was nearly

covered

with snow and frost that I was sure the fish would be crispy critters by

now

but this afternoon I braved the cold and went out to check on them. I

was

surprised and, to say the least, pleased that everyone seemed to be in

as

good as spirits as possible under the circumstances. I use a 1200 watt
floating stock tank heater and a bubbler pump but I wasn't sure if the
heater could keep up with the constant cold temps. This, to me, is

proof of

the hardiness of pond fish and the value of a $30 heater. My real

problem

is evaporation, the cold air is very dry and the comparative warm water
makes for rapid evaporation so I'm the only guy in the neighborhood with

a

garden hose stretched out in the back yard all winter.

Anyone have a similar experiences?

Frank



I'm doing the same thing in Minnesota - added water yesterday. This is
the second winter that I've used a tank heater - really boosts the
electric bill - but easier than setting up tanks in the basement.
The fish were swimming around and lookin good yesterday.
Karen

I think perhaps GG didn't realize there would be a hole in the ice layer,
but I'm assuming, so hope I'm not committing the Ass U Me injury from doing
so. ;o) ~ jan

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 , GrannyGrump wrote:

Someone posted a message about raising the water level before the freeze
and melting a hole in the ice and pumping a couple inches of water out
from under the ice. The sheet of ice above the water insulates the
water underneath and saves on the electric bill as well as keeping the
fish alive.

This would accomplish the gaseous exchange, until there was no more
oxygen in the air between the water and the ice....

Didn't know that was a problem, since the hole is still open and can't
refreeze with the water not reaching it. Are you telling me hydrogen
sulfide is heavier than air and will be trapped in the space displacing
oxygen? Hal

~ jan

I think perhaps GG didn't realize there would be a hole in the ice layer,
but I'm assuming, so hope I'm not committing the Ass U Me injury from doing
so. ;o) ~ jan

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 , GrannyGrump wrote:

Someone posted a message about raising the water level before the freeze
and melting a hole in the ice and pumping a couple inches of water out
from under the ice. The sheet of ice above the water insulates the
water underneath and saves on the electric bill as well as keeping the
fish alive.

This would accomplish the gaseous exchange, until there was no more
oxygen in the air between the water and the ice....

Didn't know that was a problem, since the hole is still open and can't
refreeze with the water not reaching it. Are you telling me hydrogen
sulfide is heavier than air and will be trapped in the space displacing
oxygen? Hal

~ jan

Regarding this thread.

Many of you have had me describe what I do, as pictured on my website the
leaf screens that are about 6" above the water surface. When they become
covered with snow underneath the water surface does not freeze. Similar to
letting the surface freeze and then pumping the water down so one has an
ice dome. Unlike the ice dome I did not go out and make a hole anywhere in
the snow, I thought the snow would be porous enough to allow gas to escape
an air to enter (I have slow circulation going on within the ponds w/air
stone in filter). Should I have made a small hole in the snow above the
ponds, or would the air pump doing it's thing be enough? Would the snow
barrier allow hydrogen sulfide to gas off or would it build up underneath?
~ jan

Leaf screen pictured on Page 1 of My Pond Photos
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Defrosted~
Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

I think perhaps GG didn't realize there would be a hole in the ice layer,
but I'm assuming, so hope I'm not committing the Ass U Me injury from doing
so. ;o) ~ jan

I think I was thinking of snow covering the ice, and it didn't occur
to me that the hole would remain open, until later after posting.