I've ruled out preformed liners and am now looking at Cement VS Flexible
liner. Any suggestions? I have lots of cement working experience, so that is
not an issue. I am looking at building a 2 pond with creek in middle system,
a small pond above a larger pond. Larger pond will probably be 8 X 10 or 12.

I would use liner. It is simply so much easier to work with and is more than
durable enough.

Joe

On 3/30/04 8:04 AM, "Garry M. Silvey" wrote:

I've ruled out preformed liners and am now looking at Cement VS Flexible
liner. Any suggestions? I have lots of cement working experience, so that is
not an issue. I am looking at building a 2 pond with creek in middle system,
a small pond above a larger pond. Larger pond will probably be 8 X 10 or 12.



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Liner offers more flexibility (no pun intended!) regarding shape and design.
It's also not "permanent", meaning that if you decide next year to change
the pond, you can do it without breaking your back (don't tell me that this
is your "last" pond - I won't believe you G). Also, depending on where you
live in the world, frost heave is not a problem with a liner, whereas it
could be fatal to a concrete pond. Many folks have concrete ponds and are
absolutely *delighted* with them, but more folks have liner ponds, I think.
Further, if the concrete truck starts making visits to your house, the local
inspectors/building code enforcers may take an interest in you . . .

Lee

"Garry M. Silvey" wrote in message
...
I've ruled out preformed liners and am now looking at Cement VS Flexible
liner. Any suggestions? I have lots of cement working experience, so that
is
not an issue. I am looking at building a 2 pond with creek in middle
system,
a small pond above a larger pond. Larger pond will probably be 8 X 10 or
12.

Liner offers more flexibility (no pun intended!) regarding shape and design.
It's also not "permanent", meaning that if you decide next year to change
the pond, you can do it without breaking your back (don't tell me that this
is your "last" pond - I won't believe you G). Also, depending on where you
live in the world, frost heave is not a problem with a liner, whereas it
could be fatal to a concrete pond. Many folks have concrete ponds and are
absolutely *delighted* with them, but more folks have liner ponds, I think.
Further, if the concrete truck starts making visits to your house, the local
inspectors/building code enforcers may take an interest in you . . .

Lee

"Garry M. Silvey" wrote in message
...
I've ruled out preformed liners and am now looking at Cement VS Flexible
liner. Any suggestions? I have lots of cement working experience, so that
is
not an issue. I am looking at building a 2 pond with creek in middle
system,
a small pond above a larger pond. Larger pond will probably be 8 X 10 or
12.

Liner offers more flexibility (no pun intended!) regarding shape and design.
It's also not "permanent", meaning that if you decide next year to change
the pond, you can do it without breaking your back (don't tell me that this
is your "last" pond - I won't believe you G). Also, depending on where you
live in the world, frost heave is not a problem with a liner, whereas it
could be fatal to a concrete pond. Many folks have concrete ponds and are
absolutely *delighted* with them, but more folks have liner ponds, I think.
Further, if the concrete truck starts making visits to your house, the local
inspectors/building code enforcers may take an interest in you . . .

Lee

"Garry M. Silvey" wrote in message
...
I've ruled out preformed liners and am now looking at Cement VS Flexible
liner. Any suggestions? I have lots of cement working experience, so that
is
not an issue. I am looking at building a 2 pond with creek in middle
system,
a small pond above a larger pond. Larger pond will probably be 8 X 10 or
12.

Concrete is my area of expertise and I went with liner. For the system that
you describe, two ponds with a stream between, you will end up with one or
more cracks in the stream due to expansion and contraction caused by
temperature changes, and the two ponds being larger and anchored deeper in
the ground will not readily move, thereby causing the stream to crack.
Concrete is an excellent material for a pond if it is properly done, but if
not properly reinforced, placed on adequate soil foundation, or have trees
with invasive root systems, it is not very forgiving. Liner is nearly idiot
proof. Concrete also leaches calcium hydroxide into the pond if not
thoroughly cured, causing the pH to want to climb to near 13.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Garry M. Silvey" wrote in message
...
I've ruled out preformed liners and am now looking at Cement VS Flexible
liner. Any suggestions? I have lots of cement working experience, so that
is
not an issue. I am looking at building a 2 pond with creek in middle
system,
a small pond above a larger pond. Larger pond will probably be 8 X 10 or
12.

Concrete is my area of expertise and I went with liner. For the system that
you describe, two ponds with a stream between, you will end up with one or
more cracks in the stream due to expansion and contraction caused by
temperature changes, and the two ponds being larger and anchored deeper in
the ground will not readily move, thereby causing the stream to crack.
Concrete is an excellent material for a pond if it is properly done, but if
not properly reinforced, placed on adequate soil foundation, or have trees
with invasive root systems, it is not very forgiving. Liner is nearly idiot
proof. Concrete also leaches calcium hydroxide into the pond if not
thoroughly cured, causing the pH to want to climb to near 13.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Garry M. Silvey" wrote in message
...
I've ruled out preformed liners and am now looking at Cement VS Flexible
liner. Any suggestions? I have lots of cement working experience, so that
is
not an issue. I am looking at building a 2 pond with creek in middle
system,
a small pond above a larger pond. Larger pond will probably be 8 X 10 or
12.

Concrete is my area of expertise and I went with liner. For the system that
you describe, two ponds with a stream between, you will end up with one or
more cracks in the stream due to expansion and contraction caused by
temperature changes, and the two ponds being larger and anchored deeper in
the ground will not readily move, thereby causing the stream to crack.
Concrete is an excellent material for a pond if it is properly done, but if
not properly reinforced, placed on adequate soil foundation, or have trees
with invasive root systems, it is not very forgiving. Liner is nearly idiot
proof. Concrete also leaches calcium hydroxide into the pond if not
thoroughly cured, causing the pH to want to climb to near 13.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Garry M. Silvey" wrote in message
...
I've ruled out preformed liners and am now looking at Cement VS Flexible
liner. Any suggestions? I have lots of cement working experience, so that
is
not an issue. I am looking at building a 2 pond with creek in middle
system,
a small pond above a larger pond. Larger pond will probably be 8 X 10 or
12.

Concrete is my area of expertise and I went with liner. For the system that
you describe, two ponds with a stream between, you will end up with one or
more cracks in the stream due to expansion and contraction caused by
temperature changes, and the two ponds being larger and anchored deeper in
the ground will not readily move, thereby causing the stream to crack.
Concrete is an excellent material for a pond if it is properly done, but if
not properly reinforced, placed on adequate soil foundation, or have trees
with invasive root systems, it is not very forgiving. Liner is nearly idiot
proof. Concrete also leaches calcium hydroxide into the pond if not
thoroughly cured, causing the pH to want to climb to near 13.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Garry M. Silvey" wrote in message
...
I've ruled out preformed liners and am now looking at Cement VS Flexible
liner. Any suggestions? I have lots of cement working experience, so that
is
not an issue. I am looking at building a 2 pond with creek in middle
system,
a small pond above a larger pond. Larger pond will probably be 8 X 10 or
12.

Ref you note below.

I have two ponds, both small by most standards, one is concrete and
the other is the flexible liner type. my wife prefers the concrete,
she sez it LOOKS better, as making a transition between the rubber
liner and the stones around it is not a gradual change

where as the concrete and stone sort of go together

I have had a leak in the concrete pond :-( but it was easily
patched with hydraulic cement and I had some critter chew a hole in
my rubber linner and it was a bigger problem in patching.

just my $.02 worth

tom A.



On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:04:07 -0500, "Garry M. Silvey"
wrote:

I've ruled out preformed liners and am now looking at Cement VS Flexible
liner. Any suggestions? I have lots of cement working experience, so that is
not an issue. I am looking at building a 2 pond with creek in middle system,
a small pond above a larger pond. Larger pond will probably be 8 X 10 or 12.




tom A.
Please check my WeB SiTe: www.kinetickites.com
or call me @ 405-722-KITE (5483)
or E-mail @

Ref you note below.

I have two ponds, both small by most standards, one is concrete and
the other is the flexible liner type. my wife prefers the concrete,
she sez it LOOKS better, as making a transition between the rubber
liner and the stones around it is not a gradual change

where as the concrete and stone sort of go together

I have had a leak in the concrete pond :-( but it was easily
patched with hydraulic cement and I had some critter chew a hole in
my rubber linner and it was a bigger problem in patching.

just my $.02 worth

tom A.



On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:04:07 -0500, "Garry M. Silvey"
wrote:

I've ruled out preformed liners and am now looking at Cement VS Flexible
liner. Any suggestions? I have lots of cement working experience, so that is
not an issue. I am looking at building a 2 pond with creek in middle system,
a small pond above a larger pond. Larger pond will probably be 8 X 10 or 12.




tom A.
Please check my WeB SiTe: www.kinetickites.com
or call me @ 405-722-KITE (5483)
or E-mail @

Eric wrote:
We just put in a pond this spring we live in the Chicago area. So we have
harsh winters, We installed a firestone liner 45 mil 20 by 25 18 in deep
with a 3 ft winter over spot and have covered it with over 4 ton of
boulders from 150 lbs down to 1 lb. It looks very realistic, I have a few
other friends that have done the same and are on there 4th year with no
problems. I sloped the sides and stacked the smaller rocks on top of the
larger ones working my way up. You can not see any liner at all, I did the
same on the 25 ft long stream and water fall. It was allot of work but the
end result was worth it. We were kinda ruff on the liner but it held up just
fine. Also just for price comparison, Liner 250.00 Rock 5 @ 85.00 per ton.
I do have some pictures, but no web site not enough hours in the day to make
one I guess. 4 kids lots of sports. Can email pictures to anyone though.

Eric wrote:
We just put in a pond this spring we live in the Chicago area. So we have
harsh winters, We installed a firestone liner 45 mil 20 by 25 18 in deep
with a 3 ft winter over spot and have covered it with over 4 ton of
boulders from 150 lbs down to 1 lb. It looks very realistic, I have a few
other friends that have done the same and are on there 4th year with no
problems. I sloped the sides and stacked the smaller rocks on top of the
larger ones working my way up. You can not see any liner at all, I did the
same on the 25 ft long stream and water fall. It was allot of work but the
end result was worth it. We were kinda ruff on the liner but it held up just
fine. Also just for price comparison, Liner 250.00 Rock 5 @ 85.00 per ton.
I do have some pictures, but no web site not enough hours in the day to make
one I guess. 4 kids lots of sports. Can email pictures to anyone though.

Thanks for the advice from everyone. Sounds like liner with lots of rock to
hide it is the way to go. Now to start real work...

"Eric and Bobbie" wrote in message
...
Eric wrote:
We just put in a pond this spring we live in the Chicago area. So we
have
harsh winters, We installed a firestone liner 45 mil 20 by 25 18 in deep
with a 3 ft winter over spot and have covered it with over 4 ton of
boulders from 150 lbs down to 1 lb. It looks very realistic, I have a few
other friends that have done the same and are on there 4th year with no
problems. I sloped the sides and stacked the smaller rocks on top of the
larger ones working my way up. You can not see any liner at all, I did the
same on the 25 ft long stream and water fall. It was allot of work but the
end result was worth it. We were kinda ruff on the liner but it held up
just
fine. Also just for price comparison, Liner 250.00 Rock 5 @ 85.00 per
ton.
I do have some pictures, but no web site not enough hours in the day to
make
one I guess. 4 kids lots of sports. Can email pictures to anyone though.

Thanks for the advice from everyone. Sounds like liner with lots of rock to
hide it is the way to go. Now to start real work...

"Eric and Bobbie" wrote in message
...
Eric wrote:
We just put in a pond this spring we live in the Chicago area. So we
have
harsh winters, We installed a firestone liner 45 mil 20 by 25 18 in deep
with a 3 ft winter over spot and have covered it with over 4 ton of
boulders from 150 lbs down to 1 lb. It looks very realistic, I have a few
other friends that have done the same and are on there 4th year with no
problems. I sloped the sides and stacked the smaller rocks on top of the
larger ones working my way up. You can not see any liner at all, I did the
same on the 25 ft long stream and water fall. It was allot of work but the
end result was worth it. We were kinda ruff on the liner but it held up
just
fine. Also just for price comparison, Liner 250.00 Rock 5 @ 85.00 per
ton.
I do have some pictures, but no web site not enough hours in the day to
make
one I guess. 4 kids lots of sports. Can email pictures to anyone though.