I did a water change today and thought I'd do a salt check before and
after. Before the change I had a salt level of .13%, after I had .11%.
Bascially doing a little more than a 15% water change out. (13 - 11 = 2, 2
divided by 13 equals .154 or 15.4%) Surprised me. Here I though I was doing
between 20-25%.

So for those of us who don't have perfectly straight walled, flat bottom
ponds who could calculate their water change % in feet (or inches) i.e., 4
ft of pond, drain down 1' equals a 25% change out. Here is another way to
use your salt test measurements. ;o) ~ jan
(Do you know where your water quality is?)

jan, the "divided by 13" comes from your beginning figure of .13? Kewl!

Lee

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
s.com...
I did a water change today and thought I'd do a salt check before and
after. Before the change I had a salt level of .13%, after I had .11%.
Bascially doing a little more than a 15% water change out. (13 - 11 = 2, 2
divided by 13 equals .154 or 15.4%) Surprised me. Here I though I was
doing
between 20-25%.

So for those of us who don't have perfectly straight walled, flat bottom
ponds who could calculate their water change % in feet (or inches) i.e., 4
ft of pond, drain down 1' equals a 25% change out. Here is another way to
use your salt test measurements. ;o) ~ jan
(Do you know where your water quality is?)

Glad you liked it. I do wonder how many folks this went "Zoom" over their
heads or felt like, Ponds, Math, Huh? ;o) VBEG ~ jan

jan, the "divided by 13" comes from your beginning figure of .13? Kewl!

Lee

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
ws.com...
I did a water change today and thought I'd do a salt check before and
after. Before the change I had a salt level of .13%, after I had .11%.
Bascially doing a little more than a 15% water change out. (13 - 11 = 2, 2
divided by 13 equals .154 or 15.4%) Surprised me. Here I though I was
doing
between 20-25%.

So for those of us who don't have perfectly straight walled, flat bottom
ponds who could calculate their water change % in feet (or inches) i.e., 4
ft of pond, drain down 1' equals a 25% change out. Here is another way to
use your salt test measurements. ;o) ~ jan
(Do you know where your water quality is?)


(Do you know where your water quality is?)

Would the water's ambient salt level make any difference? IOW, if the
ambient level is .02, it would need to be subtracted from the .11, leaving
..09. Therefore, 13-9 = 4/13 = ~31. A 31% water change would have been
closer to what you "thought" it was, instead of 15%. Or am I full of "it"
again? Math was never my forte. I don't know if it would make a difference
or not.

Lee

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
s.com...
Glad you liked it. I do wonder how many folks this went "Zoom" over their
heads or felt like, Ponds, Math, Huh? ;o) VBEG ~ jan

jan, the "divided by 13" comes from your beginning figure of .13? Kewl!

Lee

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
ws.com...
I did a water change today and thought I'd do a salt check before and
after. Before the change I had a salt level of .13%, after I had .11%.
Bascially doing a little more than a 15% water change out. (13 - 11 =
2, 2
divided by 13 equals .154 or 15.4%) Surprised me. Here I though I was
doing
between 20-25%.

So for those of us who don't have perfectly straight walled, flat
bottom
ponds who could calculate their water change % in feet (or inches)
i.e., 4
ft of pond, drain down 1' equals a 25% change out. Here is another way
to
use your salt test measurements. ;o) ~ jan
(Do you know where your water quality is?)


(Do you know where your water quality is?)

Jan,
If you do not mind I would like to add this concept to the HTH page on
water changes. Maybe start a pond specific section.
Howard

~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:

Glad you liked it. I do wonder how many folks this went "Zoom" over their
heads or felt like, Ponds, Math, Huh? ;o) VBEG ~ jan


jan, the "divided by 13" comes from your beginning figure of .13? Kewl!

Lee

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
ews.com...

I did a water change today and thought I'd do a salt check before and
after. Before the change I had a salt level of .13%, after I had .11%.
Bascially doing a little more than a 15% water change out. (13 - 11 = 2, 2
divided by 13 equals .154 or 15.4%) Surprised me. Here I though I was

doing

between 20-25%.

So for those of us who don't have perfectly straight walled, flat bottom
ponds who could calculate their water change % in feet (or inches) i.e., 4
ft of pond, drain down 1' equals a 25% change out. Here is another way to
use your salt test measurements. ;o) ~ jan
(Do you know where your water quality is?)


(Do you know where your water quality is?)


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Don't mind at all. ) ~ jan

On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 10:29:44 -0600, HTH wrote:

Jan,
If you do not mind I would like to add this concept to the HTH page on
water changes. Maybe start a pond specific section.
Howard

~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:

Glad you liked it. I do wonder how many folks this went "Zoom" over their
heads or felt like, Ponds, Math, Huh? ;o) VBEG ~ jan


jan, the "divided by 13" comes from your beginning figure of .13? Kewl!

Lee

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
news.com...

I did a water change today and thought I'd do a salt check before and
after. Before the change I had a salt level of .13%, after I had .11%.
Bascially doing a little more than a 15% water change out. (13 - 11 = 2, 2
divided by 13 equals .154 or 15.4%) Surprised me. Here I though I was

doing

between 20-25%.

So for those of us who don't have perfectly straight walled, flat bottom
ponds who could calculate their water change % in feet (or inches) i.e., 4
ft of pond, drain down 1' equals a 25% change out. Here is another way to
use your salt test measurements. ;o) ~ jan
(Do you know where your water quality is?)


(Do you know where your water quality is?)


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

(Do you know where your water quality is?)

I suppose if the water you're adding in has some salt in it, you may very
well have to take that into account. Good catch, Lee. No detectable ambient
level here, thank goodness, because.....

The math though is throwing me, but I think you're right, take the .02 away
from the after-the-change number, if you don't it wouldn't look like you
took any water at all, would it? Now I'm starting to hear "Zooms" around my
head. ;o) ~ jan

On 2 Jun 2004 07:45:09 -0500, "Lee B." wrote:

Would the water's ambient salt level make any difference? IOW, if the
ambient level is .02, it would need to be subtracted from the .11, leaving
.09. Therefore, 13-9 = 4/13 = ~31. A 31% water change would have been
closer to what you "thought" it was, instead of 15%. Or am I full of "it"
again? Math was never my forte. I don't know if it would make a difference
or not.

Lee

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
ws.com...
Glad you liked it. I do wonder how many folks this went "Zoom" over their
heads or felt like, Ponds, Math, Huh? ;o) VBEG ~ jan

jan, the "divided by 13" comes from your beginning figure of .13? Kewl!

Lee

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
ws.com...
I did a water change today and thought I'd do a salt check before and
after. Before the change I had a salt level of .13%, after I had .11%.
Bascially doing a little more than a 15% water change out. (13 - 11 =
2, 2
divided by 13 equals .154 or 15.4%) Surprised me. Here I though I was
doing
between 20-25%.

So for those of us who don't have perfectly straight walled, flat
bottom
ponds who could calculate their water change % in feet (or inches)
i.e., 4
ft of pond, drain down 1' equals a 25% change out. Here is another way
to
use your salt test measurements. ;o) ~ jan
(Do you know where your water quality is?)


(Do you know where your water quality is?)


(Do you know where your water quality is?)

Eyeball it..LOL Nothing scientific about it. I have never checked water PH
etc in over 10 years. It is an outdoor pond . Its conditions are dependent
on how much rain or lack of rain we get. If we get plenty of rain ..that in
itself changes the water in the pond. If it is a dry spell in the Summer I
might do a 1/3 water change every other week. I am not going to drive
myself nuts trying to keep the water conditions at a perfect level. My 10
year old Koi are proof that you don't have to go overboard and make allot of
work for yourself with keeping a healthy pond. It is much better to have
fish that are adaptable to varying conditions, outdoor koi and goldfish are
those types of creatures. Very adaptable. IMHO and experience. MIKE

wrote in message ...
Eyeball it..LOL Nothing scientific about it. I have never checked water
PH
etc in over 10 years. It is an outdoor pond . Its conditions are
dependent
on how much rain or lack of rain we get. If we get plenty of rain ..that
in
itself changes the water in the pond. If it is a dry spell in the Summer
I
might do a 1/3 water change every other week. I am not going to drive
myself nuts trying to keep the water conditions at a perfect level. My 10
year old Koi are proof that you don't have to go overboard and make allot
of
work for yourself with keeping a healthy pond. It is much better to have
fish that are adaptable to varying conditions, outdoor koi and goldfish
are
those types of creatures. Very adaptable. IMHO and experience. MIKE

I think you are right with one caveat...I pond in the same manner, build it
and let it take care of itself, but when I built, I over built my filter. I
think if you have a large body of water, properly filtered, it is much more
forgiving then an overstocked, smaller pond.

BV.

I agree....{:O) MIKE
"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

wrote in message ...
Eyeball it..LOL Nothing scientific about it. I have never checked
water
PH
etc in over 10 years. It is an outdoor pond . Its conditions are
dependent
on how much rain or lack of rain we get. If we get plenty of rain
...that
in
itself changes the water in the pond. If it is a dry spell in the
Summer
I
might do a 1/3 water change every other week. I am not going to drive
myself nuts trying to keep the water conditions at a perfect level. My
10
year old Koi are proof that you don't have to go overboard and make
allot
of
work for yourself with keeping a healthy pond. It is much better to
have
fish that are adaptable to varying conditions, outdoor koi and goldfish
are
those types of creatures. Very adaptable. IMHO and experience. MIKE

I think you are right with one caveat...I pond in the same manner, build
it
and let it take care of itself, but when I built, I over built my filter.
I
think if you have a large body of water, properly filtered, it is much
more
forgiving then an overstocked, smaller pond.

BV.

One of the things that I've learned on my journey to proper koi keeping is
that conditions vary *wildly* from place to place within the U.S., let alone
the rest of the world. Your recommendation - which obviously works well for
you in your part of the world - would be condemning my fish (in MY part of
the world) to certain death in very short order. Kick back, relax and thank
your deity of choice for living in such a fortunate location.

Lee

wrote in message ...
Eyeball it..LOL Nothing scientific about it. I have never checked water
PH
etc in over 10 years. It is an outdoor pond . Its conditions are
dependent
on how much rain or lack of rain we get. If we get plenty of rain ..that
in
itself changes the water in the pond. If it is a dry spell in the Summer
I
might do a 1/3 water change every other week. I am not going to drive
myself nuts trying to keep the water conditions at a perfect level. My 10
year old Koi are proof that you don't have to go overboard and make allot
of
work for yourself with keeping a healthy pond. It is much better to have
fish that are adaptable to varying conditions, outdoor koi and goldfish
are
those types of creatures. Very adaptable. IMHO and experience. MIKE

Yes...they do vary *wildly* but koi are very adaptable fish. They can adapt
to almost any environment. Lets say you adapt you koi to a certain water
quality..that you feel they do best in. PH ,water hardness, a pristine
level...then they become accustomed to that water quality. So every time it
rains, or you do a water change aren't they more sensitive to disease and
stress because they are "spoiled", used to one specific water quality???
I'm not arguing your point...just curious?? thanks Mike
"Lee B." wrote in message
...
One of the things that I've learned on my journey to proper koi keeping is
that conditions vary *wildly* from place to place within the U.S., let
alone
the rest of the world. Your recommendation - which obviously works well
for
you in your part of the world - would be condemning my fish (in MY part of
the world) to certain death in very short order. Kick back, relax and
thank
your deity of choice for living in such a fortunate location.

Lee

wrote in message ...
Eyeball it..LOL Nothing scientific about it. I have never checked
water
PH
etc in over 10 years. It is an outdoor pond . Its conditions are
dependent
on how much rain or lack of rain we get. If we get plenty of rain
...that
in
itself changes the water in the pond. If it is a dry spell in the
Summer
I
might do a 1/3 water change every other week. I am not going to drive
myself nuts trying to keep the water conditions at a perfect level. My
10
year old Koi are proof that you don't have to go overboard and make
allot
of
work for yourself with keeping a healthy pond. It is much better to
have
fish that are adaptable to varying conditions, outdoor koi and goldfish
are
those types of creatures. Very adaptable. IMHO and experience. MIKE

Koi can adapt to almost any water parameters, but they do not adapt quickly.
Temperature changes over very short times can be stressful. pH changes over
short intervals are stressful. When stress enters the picture, disease
enters the picture, and fish start dying if they are not properly medicated,
quarantined in pristine water, and allowed to ease the stress. A large farm
pond or lake does not change rapidly and the fish fair well with little or
no human intervention. The smaller the yard pond the more rapidly the
temperature, pH, and overall water quality change. That is the best reason
for building the largest pond possible. Even the largest koi pond that I
have visited, about 17000 gallons needs some monitoring. Yard ponds also
suffer from over population. The first year, a bunch of little fish, and it
looks empty, so get a bunch more, and it is a big pond with a bunch of
little fish and all is well. The next year, the little fish, if koi, are a
foot to a foot and half long, and the pond still looks like it could stand a
few more fish, and I just saw the cutest fish that I just had to have. By
the fourth or fifth year, the fish can hardly turn around without bumping
into each other, because they are now over 2 feet long and 5 or 6 inches in
diameter. They are all my friends and I can't part with any of them.
Oxygen becomes a problem, filtration becomes a problem, pollution becomes a
problem.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
wrote in message ...
Yes...they do vary *wildly* but koi are very adaptable fish. They can
adapt
to almost any environment. Lets say you adapt you koi to a certain water
quality..that you feel they do best in. PH ,water hardness, a pristine
level...then they become accustomed to that water quality. So every time
it
rains, or you do a water change aren't they more sensitive to disease and
stress because they are "spoiled", used to one specific water quality???
I'm not arguing your point...just curious?? thanks Mike
"Lee B." wrote in message
...
One of the things that I've learned on my journey to proper koi keeping
is
that conditions vary *wildly* from place to place within the U.S., let
alone
the rest of the world. Your recommendation - which obviously works well
for
you in your part of the world - would be condemning my fish (in MY part
of
the world) to certain death in very short order. Kick back, relax and
thank
your deity of choice for living in such a fortunate location.

Lee

wrote in message
...
Eyeball it..LOL Nothing scientific about it. I have never checked
water
PH
etc in over 10 years. It is an outdoor pond . Its conditions are
dependent
on how much rain or lack of rain we get. If we get plenty of rain
..that
in
itself changes the water in the pond. If it is a dry spell in the
Summer
I
might do a 1/3 water change every other week. I am not going to drive
myself nuts trying to keep the water conditions at a perfect level.
My
10
year old Koi are proof that you don't have to go overboard and make
allot
of
work for yourself with keeping a healthy pond. It is much better to
have
fish that are adaptable to varying conditions, outdoor koi and
goldfish
are
those types of creatures. Very adaptable. IMHO and experience. MIKE

RTB gave a pretty good synopsis of the situation.

I pretty much have the "standard" of koi keeping: too many fish in too few
gallons. I'm working on that. When I started this hobby, no one told me that
once you get past killing them with ignorance, they GROW. and BREED. One
good spawning session can *trash* your water quality for days. In a lake or
river (their "natural" environment) there is a constant source of fresh
water, with new nutrients washing in and bad stuff washing out. In
captivity, they are kept in what is tantamount to a cess pool - and it's up
to us, their "captors" to treat them humanely, which includes washing out
the bad and reintroducing the new. There are "ideals" that should be strived
for; there are "compromises" that can work. A dog *can* live at the end of a
chain, tied to a tree and thrown scraps, but that's not exactly "life". My
fish are pets - with all that word conjures up; they are my responsibility,
and I *will* see that they are properly tended to to the extent of my
ability. Does that make them "spoiled"? Maybe - but it keeps them healthy,
too.

Lee

wrote in message ...
Yes...they do vary *wildly* but koi are very adaptable fish. They can
adapt
to almost any environment. Lets say you adapt you koi to a certain water
quality..that you feel they do best in. PH ,water hardness, a pristine
level...then they become accustomed to that water quality. So every time
it
rains, or you do a water change aren't they more sensitive to disease and
stress because they are "spoiled", used to one specific water quality???
I'm not arguing your point...just curious?? thanks Mike
"Lee B." wrote in message
...
One of the things that I've learned on my journey to proper koi keeping
is
that conditions vary *wildly* from place to place within the U.S., let
alone
the rest of the world. Your recommendation - which obviously works well
for
you in your part of the world - would be condemning my fish (in MY part
of
the world) to certain death in very short order. Kick back, relax and
thank
your deity of choice for living in such a fortunate location.

Lee

wrote in message
...
Eyeball it..LOL Nothing scientific about it. I have never checked
water
PH
etc in over 10 years. It is an outdoor pond . Its conditions are
dependent
on how much rain or lack of rain we get. If we get plenty of rain
..that
in
itself changes the water in the pond. If it is a dry spell in the
Summer
I
might do a 1/3 water change every other week. I am not going to drive
myself nuts trying to keep the water conditions at a perfect level.
My
10
year old Koi are proof that you don't have to go overboard and make
allot
of
work for yourself with keeping a healthy pond. It is much better to
have
fish that are adaptable to varying conditions, outdoor koi and
goldfish
are
those types of creatures. Very adaptable. IMHO and experience. MIKE

I can always tell when my koi are spawning because of a pronounced "fishy"
smell coming from the water. I have walked up to my pond and caught a wiff
of that "smell" and sure enough I have seen the fish spawning. Anyone ever
notice that??? Mike
"Lee B." wrote in message
...
RTB gave a pretty good synopsis of the situation.

I pretty much have the "standard" of koi keeping: too many fish in too
few
gallons. I'm working on that. When I started this hobby, no one told me
that
once you get past killing them with ignorance, they GROW. and BREED. One
good spawning session can *trash* your water quality for days. In a lake
or
river (their "natural" environment) there is a constant source of fresh
water, with new nutrients washing in and bad stuff washing out. In
captivity, they are kept in what is tantamount to a cess pool - and it's
up
to us, their "captors" to treat them humanely, which includes washing out
the bad and reintroducing the new. There are "ideals" that should be
strived
for; there are "compromises" that can work. A dog *can* live at the end of
a
chain, tied to a tree and thrown scraps, but that's not exactly "life".
My
fish are pets - with all that word conjures up; they are my
responsibility,
and I *will* see that they are properly tended to to the extent of my
ability. Does that make them "spoiled"? Maybe - but it keeps them healthy,
too.

Lee

wrote in message ...
Yes...they do vary *wildly* but koi are very adaptable fish. They can
adapt
to almost any environment. Lets say you adapt you koi to a certain
water
quality..that you feel they do best in. PH ,water hardness, a pristine
level...then they become accustomed to that water quality. So every time
it
rains, or you do a water change aren't they more sensitive to disease
and
stress because they are "spoiled", used to one specific water quality???
I'm not arguing your point...just curious?? thanks Mike
"Lee B." wrote in message
...
One of the things that I've learned on my journey to proper koi
keeping
is
that conditions vary *wildly* from place to place within the U.S., let
alone
the rest of the world. Your recommendation - which obviously works
well
for
you in your part of the world - would be condemning my fish (in MY
part
of
the world) to certain death in very short order. Kick back, relax and
thank
your deity of choice for living in such a fortunate location.

Lee

wrote in message
...
Eyeball it..LOL Nothing scientific about it. I have never checked
water
PH
etc in over 10 years. It is an outdoor pond . Its conditions are
dependent
on how much rain or lack of rain we get. If we get plenty of rain
..that
in
itself changes the water in the pond. If it is a dry spell in the
Summer
I
might do a 1/3 water change every other week. I am not going to
drive
myself nuts trying to keep the water conditions at a perfect level.
My
10
year old Koi are proof that you don't have to go overboard and make
allot
of
work for yourself with keeping a healthy pond. It is much better to
have
fish that are adaptable to varying conditions, outdoor koi and
goldfish
are
those types of creatures. Very adaptable. IMHO and experience. MIKE