| Home |
| Search |
| Today's Posts |
|
#16
18-06-2004, 10:05 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Covering Pond for Winter
I believe the frostline in Chicago is 36" meaning that the ground
freezes up to 36 below ground. In zone 7 I could see the ground staying 55 degrees, but not here. "RichToyBox" wrote in message news:vLqAc.47756$Hg2.30050@attbi_s04... You may be surprised at the temperature of the pond from 500 watt heater. First if the pond is protected from evaporation and allowed some solar heat, it will supply heat to the soil, until it drops to about 55 degrees, and then it starts being heated by the natural ground temperature, which is a fairly constant 55 degrees. So the heater should be raising the temperature from the 55 degree level, and all of your heat losses should be through the cover. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "MC" wrote in message om... The price range seems to run the gambit- 500W from $40 to $500+. As I understand it, roughly each Watt will raise 1 gallon of water 10 degrees. So if my cover keeps my 500 gallon pond at a minimum of 40 degrees, a 500W heater will raise it to 50 degrees. wrote in message ... p. 361 of aquatic ecosystems catalog, $44 and extra 30 for the controller. but they got titanium that are cheaper. mine has a separate temperature probe and the heater is covered to prevent it from getting hit or melting liner down. people in warmer zones dont understand that our ponds drop below 50o (when koi's immune system goes down and feeding stops) sometime mid october in zone 5 and doesnt rise over 50o until mid april. that is 6 months of no immunity and 6 months of no food. it is VERY VERY hard on koi. you can always order some kind of pool from aquatic ecosystem, or, build a stud wall pond in the basement and line that with permalon. Ingrid (MC) wrote: What kind of heater are you using? I've heard of people using trough heaters and there seems to be several kinds of pond heaters. I only have 500 gallons in Chicago. It is early, but my first year I lost all my Koi (used a bubbler to keep hole open). Last winter, I brought them inside. They are now kind of big to bring inside. I am trying to plan ahead. If I need to bring them inside this winter, I need to buy a kiddie pool and you can't find them in the winter in Chicago. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
|
#17
19-06-2004, 02:05 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Covering Pond for Winter
The frost line is outside where the soil is exposed. Crawl spaces under
houses don't freeze. I suspect that if the pond is kept covered, the soil under the pond would not cool significantly below the 55 degrees. The soil around the sides would develop frost, but the pond would be heating the soil. If the cover extends a couple of feet from the pond edge, then the heat transfer would be slow. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "MC" wrote in message om... I believe the frostline in Chicago is 36" meaning that the ground freezes up to 36 below ground. In zone 7 I could see the ground staying 55 degrees, but not here. "RichToyBox" wrote in message news:vLqAc.47756$Hg2.30050@attbi_s04... You may be surprised at the temperature of the pond from 500 watt heater. First if the pond is protected from evaporation and allowed some solar heat, it will supply heat to the soil, until it drops to about 55 degrees, and then it starts being heated by the natural ground temperature, which is a fairly constant 55 degrees. So the heater should be raising the temperature from the 55 degree level, and all of your heat losses should be through the cover. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "MC" wrote in message om... The price range seems to run the gambit- 500W from $40 to $500+. As I understand it, roughly each Watt will raise 1 gallon of water 10 degrees. So if my cover keeps my 500 gallon pond at a minimum of 40 degrees, a 500W heater will raise it to 50 degrees. wrote in message ... p. 361 of aquatic ecosystems catalog, $44 and extra 30 for the controller. but they got titanium that are cheaper. mine has a separate temperature probe and the heater is covered to prevent it from getting hit or melting liner down. people in warmer zones dont understand that our ponds drop below 50o (when koi's immune system goes down and feeding stops) sometime mid october in zone 5 and doesnt rise over 50o until mid april. that is 6 months of no immunity and 6 months of no food. it is VERY VERY hard on koi. you can always order some kind of pool from aquatic ecosystem, or, build a stud wall pond in the basement and line that with permalon. Ingrid (MC) wrote: What kind of heater are you using? I've heard of people using trough heaters and there seems to be several kinds of pond heaters. I only have 500 gallons in Chicago. It is early, but my first year I lost all my Koi (used a bubbler to keep hole open). Last winter, I brought them inside. They are now kind of big to bring inside. I am trying to plan ahead. If I need to bring them inside this winter, I need to buy a kiddie pool and you can't find them in the winter in Chicago. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
|
#18
20-06-2004, 05:04 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Covering Pond for Winter
I am in zone 5, Milwaukee north of you and to keep the pond clear of ice all winter
is cover it with a plastic lean to and run an airstone and/or a pump. The freezing does not actually get that deep. That is how deep it has been recorded, probably during the "little ice age" and no snow cover or out in the middle of a farmers field. this is the depth used for burying people so their coffins dont get heaved out of the ground by frost. all summer long my pond heats the surrounding soil. the 1.5 feet sticks up out of the ground is insulated. in any case, 500 watts did 1600 gallons kept water at or above 50o all but one month this last winter. Ingrid (MC) wrote: I believe the frostline in Chicago is 36" meaning that the ground freezes up to 36 below ground. In zone 7 I could see the ground staying 55 degrees, but not here. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
|
#20
22-06-2004, 03:04 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Covering Pond for Winter
A solar cover laid on the surface of the water interfers with the gas
exchange, toxics out, oxygen in. With the lean-to or a domed structure, gas exchange is the same as without a cover. The solar cover has a relative R value for heat to cross from the water to the cold outside air. The lean-to structure has a lot of dead air, which is a pretty good insulator, between the water and the outside. My lean-to is covered with 2 layers of poly sheeting and 1 layer of the solar cover, so my R value from warm air over pond to cold outside air is higher than just solar cover. Plants do not have to be removed from the pond if covered with lean-to structure, and I keep tropical plants over the winter with blooms on tropical lilies until late January, cannas bloom all winter, taro blooms during the winter. Since a solar cover is designed for direct water contact, all of these plants would have to go. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "MC" wrote in message om... What are the pros and cons of lean to versus a solar type surface cover? wrote in message ... I am in zone 5, Milwaukee north of you and to keep the pond clear of ice all winter is cover it with a plastic lean to and run an airstone and/or a pump. The freezing does not actually get that deep. That is how deep it has been recorded, probably during the "little ice age" and no snow cover or out in the middle of a farmers field. this is the depth used for burying people so their coffins dont get heaved out of the ground by frost. all summer long my pond heats the surrounding soil. the 1.5 feet sticks up out of the ground is insulated. in any case, 500 watts did 1600 gallons kept water at or above 50o all but one month this last winter. Ingrid (MC) wrote: I believe the frostline in Chicago is 36" meaning that the ground freezes up to 36 below ground. In zone 7 I could see the ground staying 55 degrees, but not here. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
|
#21
22-06-2004, 12:05 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Covering Pond for Winter
On 21 Jun 2004 14:58:39 -0700, (MC) wrote:
What are the pros and cons of lean to versus a solar type surface cover? wrote in message ... I am in zone 5, Milwaukee north of you and to keep the pond clear of ice all winter is cover it with a plastic lean to and run an airstone and/or a pump. The freezing does not actually get that deep. That is how deep it has been recorded, probably during the "little ice age" and no snow cover or out in the middle of a farmers field. this is the depth used for burying people so their coffins dont get heaved out of the ground by frost. all summer long my pond heats the surrounding soil. the 1.5 feet sticks up out of the ground is insulated. in any case, 500 watts did 1600 gallons kept water at or above 50o all but one month this last winter. Ingrid (MC) wrote: I believe the frostline in Chicago is 36" meaning that the ground freezes up to 36 below ground. In zone 7 I could see the ground staying 55 degrees, but not here. Ice thickness is not the same as frozen ground because the water can move. Warm water from the bottom (yes, it is warmer there) circulates to the top. The soil cannot do that so the frost goes deeper and deeper. I live in zone 5 and this past winter was the coldest in 30 years. Ground frost was 4 feet deep in exposed areas. My 3 feet deep pond had a maximum of 18 inches of ice on it. John |
|
#22
08-07-2004, 06:04 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Covering Pond for Winter
I must have an old catalog - no heaters on p. 361. Do you know the
brand? I am seeing a lot of glass aquarium type heaters which I would think wouldn't be safe in a pond. With the metal heaters, how do you keep it from burning the liner? wrote in message ... p. 361 of aquatic ecosystems catalog, $44 and extra 30 for the controller. but they got titanium that are cheaper. mine has a separate temperature probe and the heater is covered to prevent it from getting hit or melting liner down. people in warmer zones dont understand that our ponds drop below 50o (when koi's immune system goes down and feeding stops) sometime mid october in zone 5 and doesnt rise over 50o until mid april. that is 6 months of no immunity and 6 months of no food. it is VERY VERY hard on koi. you can always order some kind of pool from aquatic ecosystem, or, build a stud wall pond in the basement and line that with permalon. Ingrid (MC) wrote: What kind of heater are you using? I've heard of people using trough heaters and there seems to be several kinds of pond heaters. I only have 500 gallons in Chicago. It is early, but my first year I lost all my Koi (used a bubbler to keep hole open). Last winter, I brought them inside. They are now kind of big to bring inside. I am trying to plan ahead. If I need to bring them inside this winter, I need to buy a kiddie pool and you can't find them in the winter in Chicago. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
|
#23
08-07-2004, 10:02 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Covering Pond for Winter
On 8 Jul 2004 09:16:19 -0700, (MC) wrote:
I must have an old catalog - no heaters on p. 361. Do you know the brand? I am seeing a lot of glass aquarium type heaters which I would think wouldn't be safe in a pond. With the metal heaters, how do you keep it from burning the liner? wrote in message ... p. 361 of aquatic ecosystems catalog, $44 and extra 30 for the controller. but they got titanium that are cheaper. mine has a separate temperature probe and the heater is covered to prevent it from getting hit or melting liner down. people in warmer zones dont understand that our ponds drop below 50o (when koi's immune system goes down and feeding stops) sometime mid october in zone 5 and doesnt rise over 50o until mid april. that is 6 months of no immunity and 6 months of no food. it is VERY VERY hard on koi. you can always order some kind of pool from aquatic ecosystem, or, build a stud wall pond in the basement and line that with permalon. Ingrid (MC) wrote: What kind of heater are you using? I've heard of people using trough heaters and there seems to be several kinds of pond heaters. I only have 500 gallons in Chicago. It is early, but my first year I lost all my Koi (used a bubbler to keep hole open). Last winter, I brought them inside. They are now kind of big to bring inside. I am trying to plan ahead. If I need to bring them inside this winter, I need to buy a kiddie pool and you can't find them in the winter in Chicago. I do not know your situation but I am in New Hampshire. Last winter was one of the worst on record for low temps and high winds. My pond is 40" deep. I kept a bubbler going (had to break ice open a few times) and that was it. We started the winter with 1 koi, 3 goldfish and 8 goldfish fry. We lost only 2 of the fry. John |
|
#24
10-07-2004, 04:07 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Covering Pond for Winter
uncovered glass wouldnt survive in a pond with koi I dont think. the one I got has a
cage around it. the 500w is VT500 ($44) and the controller is VT500T ($30) the JH500 titanium heater could be hung from something to prevent it from hitting the liner. or, hung in a bucket. Ingrid (MC) wrote: I must have an old catalog - no heaters on p. 361. Do you know the brand? I am seeing a lot of glass aquarium type heaters which I would think wouldn't be safe in a pond. With the metal heaters, how do you keep it from burning the liner? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
|
#25
14-07-2004, 08:09 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Covering Pond for Winter
I must have an old catalog - no heaters on p. 361. Do you know the
brand? I am seeing a lot of glass aquarium type heaters which I would think wouldn't be safe in a pond. With the metal heaters, how do you keep it from burning the liner? wrote in message ... p. 361 of aquatic ecosystems catalog, $44 and extra 30 for the controller. but they got titanium that are cheaper. mine has a separate temperature probe and the heater is covered to prevent it from getting hit or melting liner down. people in warmer zones dont understand that our ponds drop below 50o (when koi's immune system goes down and feeding stops) sometime mid october in zone 5 and doesnt rise over 50o until mid april. that is 6 months of no immunity and 6 months of no food. it is VERY VERY hard on koi. you can always order some kind of pool from aquatic ecosystem, or, build a stud wall pond in the basement and line that with permalon. Ingrid (MC) wrote: What kind of heater are you using? I've heard of people using trough heaters and there seems to be several kinds of pond heaters. I only have 500 gallons in Chicago. It is early, but my first year I lost all my Koi (used a bubbler to keep hole open). Last winter, I brought them inside. They are now kind of big to bring inside. I am trying to plan ahead. If I need to bring them inside this winter, I need to buy a kiddie pool and you can't find them in the winter in Chicago. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
|
#26
15-07-2004, 06:03 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Covering Pond for Winter
Thanks for the model info. I notice the controller works from 20-34C.
20C is 68F, so does that mean it is always on in the winter since I doubt your pond reaches 68 in WI? wrote in message ... uncovered glass wouldnt survive in a pond with koi I dont think. the one I got has a cage around it. the 500w is VT500 ($44) and the controller is VT500T ($30) the JH500 titanium heater could be hung from something to prevent it from hitting the liner. or, hung in a bucket. Ingrid (MC) wrote: I must have an old catalog - no heaters on p. 361. Do you know the brand? I am seeing a lot of glass aquarium type heaters which I would think wouldn't be safe in a pond. With the metal heaters, how do you keep it from burning the liner? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
|
#27
16-07-2004, 05:03 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Covering Pond for Winter
"dkat" wrote in message et...
I'm responding to the Subject header wrote in message ... p. 361 of aquatic ecosystems catalog, $44 and extra 30 for the controller. (MC) wrote: What kind of heater are you using? Strange, your newreader managed to quote the previous artcle. Hmm. I suspect it is more a matter of your newsreader software settings than your news service. As you may be able to tell I use google groups for posting. That way I can post from home or work and not have to do odd things with my newsreader. And the posts will be there forever. "For certain values of forever" -- Crashj |
|
#28
17-07-2004, 12:08 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Covering Pond for Winter
uhhh.. really? I guess so. Just looked at it. had it turned to 22oC. Ingrid
(MC) wrote: Thanks for the model info. I notice the controller works from 20-34C. 20C is 68F, so does that mean it is always on in the winter since I doubt your pond reaches 68 in WI? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
|
#29
17-07-2004, 12:08 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Covering Pond for Winter
I was also wondering, if you need a 500W heater, does it make more
sense to buy 2 250W heaters? Then, if one goes out, you at least have some heat. It seems like that would maybe be safer. (MC) wrote in message . com... Thanks for the model info. I notice the controller works from 20-34C. 20C is 68F, so does that mean it is always on in the winter since I doubt your pond reaches 68 in WI? wrote in message ... uncovered glass wouldnt survive in a pond with koi I dont think. the one I got has a cage around it. the 500w is VT500 ($44) and the controller is VT500T ($30) the JH500 titanium heater could be hung from something to prevent it from hitting the liner. or, hung in a bucket. Ingrid (MC) wrote: I must have an old catalog - no heaters on p. 361. Do you know the brand? I am seeing a lot of glass aquarium type heaters which I would think wouldn't be safe in a pond. With the metal heaters, how do you keep it from burning the liner? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
|
#30
17-07-2004, 04:02 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Covering Pond for Winter
uncovered glass wouldnt survive in a pond with koi I dont think. the one I got has a
cage around it. the 500w is VT500 ($44) and the controller is VT500T ($30) the JH500 titanium heater could be hung from something to prevent it from hitting the liner. or, hung in a bucket. Ingrid (MC) wrote: I must have an old catalog - no heaters on p. 361. Do you know the brand? I am seeing a lot of glass aquarium type heaters which I would think wouldn't be safe in a pond. With the metal heaters, how do you keep it from burning the liner? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
| Reply |
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Forum | |||
| Winter-Summer: - Pond-Winter.jpg (1/1) | Garden Photos | |||
| Pond Covering | Ponds | |||
| Please think about covering your pond! | Ponds | |||
| How do I get rid of green covering on pond | United Kingdom | |||
| green covering on pond | United Kingdom | |||
Linear Mode
